HoF President Petroskey Issues Apology

[bezdomny]

Hall of Fame President Dale Petroskey has written an open letter to all who contacted the Hall about the "Bull Durham" affair.

In the letter, Petroskey says he is sorry for polticizing the Hall, and admits he did exactly what he was trying to avoid.

"I am sorry I didn't pick up the phone to have a discussion with Tim Robbins and Susan Sarandon rather than sending them a letter," Petroskey says.

The entire letter is posted on the Hall's Web site: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/wh...2003_04_11.htm

Robbins responded in a statement to the press: "Because Petroskey's actions resulted in a bipartisan, nationwide affirmation of free speech and the First Amendment, he has inadvertently done us all a favor."

"I appreciate Petroskey's non-apology apology and his realization of the perils of paper trails," he said.

[The Wizard]

Even though Tim Robbins is one of my favorite actors, I think he's being just a little haughty about this. I don't really appreciate his attitude. I side with Petroskey on his reasonings and that he should have handled it differently.

[bluezebra]

It seems Petroskey " shot from the lip", learning the technique from his former boss R. Reagan.

Bob

[PeteF3]

Originally posted by The Wizard
Even though Tim Robbins is one of my favorite actors, I think he's being just a little haughty about this. I don't really appreciate his attitude. I side with Petroskey on his reasonings and that he should have handled it differently.

I think Petroskey's "reasonings" are a bunch of crap myself. What was Ari Fleischer there for last year, discussing the history of the Yankees? Petroskey wanted to impress his Republican buddies by quashing any possible speech made by an actor who happened to be anti-war, despite absolutely NO evidence that Robbins or Sarandon were going to say anything about the war at all. (Sarandon said nothing about the war the Oscars, an event watched by millions more people than this little HOF ceremony--why would she give a political speech at the Hall and not on a high-rated national TV event?)

[The Wizard]

It doesn't matter what reasons there were. The point is it could've been handled differently. And while Sarandan did not make a speech, she flashed the peace sign and knowing her, we all know what that means. And I happed to agree with Petroskey that avoiding the possibility of that or worse is enough to prompt concern. I, for one, do not want to offend veterans and service men who have or are putting their lives on the line for our freedom. And while I have no problems with Freedom of Speech, I do wish people would exercise good judgement more often, especially in cases like this.

[J W]

To me, it's very simple...

A) I disagree with what Petroskey did

B) I would have disagreed with Robbins or Sarandon in case they would have done what they allegedly would do.

C) I accept Petroskey's apology.

[PeteF3]

Originally posted by PeteF3
What was Ari Fleischer there for last year, discussing the history of the Yankees?

Still waiting for an answer on this.

[bezdomny]

I accept Petroskey's apology, and I think he realizes what he did was wrong and dumb. But I'm still bothered, because it seems that there are still some people so blinded by patriotic fervor that they don't see how unpatriotic his actions were.

I don't agree with Robbins and Sarandon on the war, but it frightens me when I see people applaud something as unnecessary as what Petroskey did. He was SO afraid of dissent that he bit off his nose to spite his face. I always enjoy meeting people who have opinions that conflict with my own, because that's what makes a mind grow. I just can't understand people who seek to crush dissent, in wartime or otherwise.

What kind of country would we be if we canceled every event that might possible be attended by someone who is against the war? Did the people who applauded Petroskey's paranoid actions ever pause to ask themselves this question?

I supported the war, but I always keep this in my mind: When the troops come home, they expect it to be America to which they return. And without dissent, it's not America.

[J W]

It is a little scary, bdny, but not unprecedented in American history... or in any country's history, for that matter. And, America has seen much, much worse acts of "un-patrionism" in the past century (aka as it began to take modern shape)... during WWII, during the Red Scare, during Vietnam, etc.

It really isn't fair to compare this incident to those, though... so, again I accept the apology, and I'll leave it at that.

[razors]

Originally posted by The Wizard:
"It doesn't matter what reasons there were. The point is it could've been handled differently. And while Sarandan did not make a speech, she flashed the peace sign and knowing her, we all know what that means."

i don't know her as well as you seem to but my guess would be that this means she wants peace? doesn't seem too bad of an ideal to me but i don't know what she's thinking and i certainly don't want to censor thought - even, heaven forbid, politcal thought..


"And I happed to agree with Petroskey that avoiding the possibility of that or worse is enough to prompt concern."

avoiding the possibility that she holds 2-fingers aloft, silently stating her wish for peace? i don't think it could get worse than that, lucky for us baseball fans we have petroskey to censor -even the possibility of - any such behaviour!


"I, for one, do not want to offend veterans and service men who have or are putting their lives on the line for our freedom."

glad to hear it, neither do i. still, not all veterans and servicemen are as sensitive as you may believe as to be so offended by the peace sign - (psst... i've known a few even do it themselves)...


"And while I have to problems with Freedom of Speech, I do wish people would exercise good judgement more often, especially in cases like this."

i agree. petroskey was well out of line ...and his 'apology' is one that states he should have phoned instead of sending a letter... well, he did use the word sorry so that counts as an apology, right?




razors

[The Wizard]

Yes, but believe it or not, most people want peace. In times of war however, we should be careful what we do about it. I don't want a war with anyone. But sometimes it's necessary. The problem with Sarandan and others is that they don't realize that sometimes we have to go to war. And they are the people that get the press time. Not the everyday Joes like you and me. So our troops while overseas and upon return don't get to hear what the majority of US citizens feel, pride in our troops and country. The possibility of her doing that or worse, to me, is enough to warrant caution. That's all I'm saying. What people don't seem to realize is that while it's okay to question or even criticize our elected officials, there is a time to unite as citizens of this country and support those officials and the people putting their lives on the line, while we sit at homes and argue about it on our computers. Those people are keeping me and my children safe. All the men and women who have fought in other wars, losing their sanity, their limbs, their lives. I just think we owe them the utmost respect. So while, like you said, not all veterans or servicemen are offended by the peace sign (not my point, it was anything political or anti-war that I was talking about) and some even flash it themselves, I merely think this is not the time to be flashing it like we're a bunch of drugged-up hippies in the '70s, protesting a war and then spitting on our soldiers when they came home. They deserve our love, prayers and respect. Why can't these people show that instead of the peace sign?

[razors]

Originally posted by The Wizard:
"...The problem with Sarandan and others is that they don't realize that sometimes we have to go to war..."

you sure know this lass really well, where are you getting all this 'inside' information?


"...So our troops while overseas and upon return don't get to hear what the majority of US citizens feel, pride in our troops and country..."

this is just baseless hogwash! i doubt you have any idea what they get to hear overseas or upon return - but you'd rather they return to a country where only one p.o.v. CAN be heard - not the freedom we're fighting for is it?


"What people don't seem to realize is that while it's okay to question or even criticize our elected officials, there is a time to unite as citizens of this country and support those officials..."

these 'officials' don't even agree with each other...what you are actually saying is support the officials that YOU agree with...and it's about an even split amongst americans (including these officials) as to whether this war has made them safer or not.


"So while, like you said, not all veterans or servicemen are offended by the peace sign (not my point, it was anything political or anti-war that I was talking about)..."

okay but your post clearly states that you are talking about the peace sign "or worse"


"I merely think this is not the time to be flashing it like we're a bunch of drugged-up hippies in the '70s, protesting a war and then spitting on our soldiers when they came home.

and you think this will happen because of robbins'/sarandans' views? maybe i s'pose but i cannot believe that because one may have a dissenting view that this in anyway implies that this type of disgusting behaviour is condoned.


"They deserve our love, prayers and respect. Why can't these people show that instead of the peace sign?"

why can't you accept that 'these people' can show love and respect AND the peace sign. these are NOT mutually exclusive actions, though you would have us think so...


the HOF has the right to let whomever they would like through their doors and of course the right to censor who and what they like...but for petroskey to profess that he is trying to keep the Hall apolitical is disingenuous on his part - and folly for baseball fans to believe it.




razors

[Captain Cold Nose]

Ms. Sarandon has made her views very well known in many public settings, razors. You don't need to be a mind reader to know her views.

Petroskey is just a museum curator for a museum that Bill James has said is essentially "run by accountants." 1 Anyone who believes his actions in any way harm the actual sport of baseball or mlb either misjudges his stature or takes his actions as far more serious than they actually are.

Bezdomny pretty much hit it on the head as I see it, at least. His main misdoing was to go public with this as he did. He could have simply cancelled what was basically a sham of a celebration anyway (15 years? So what!) and not put his politics in this.

I like Robbins as an actor. Not a fan of his views, but he did say he wasn't going to do anything at a place he has visited many times (and has said will continue to do so.) I believe him, but the more conservative Petroskey did not, based on past actions.

It should never have gotten to this point, period.

Notes

1. James, Bill. Whatever Happened to the Hall of Fame . 1994. I'm sorry, I don't have my MLA handbook in front of me, so I'm stopping my citation here.

[razors]

Originally posted by Captain Cold Nose:
"Ms. Sarandon has made her views very well known in many public settings, razors. You don't need to be a mind reader to know her views."

maybe you do, The Wizard obviously does but not i - has she really said that war is NEVER necessary, as The Wizard reckons? what i do know she said was: ''It's so ironic that we should be quote unquote liberating another country and giving them a democracy when we're telling people here if they open their mouths, they're not allowed to participate.''

her views or bruce willis' views or your views are not likely to sway me on my views about this war (or the other ~40 or so wars currently being waged around the globe) - but when the HOF (or anyone in this great country) is going to act as the defacto thought police or public censor ( the ol' "i can handle it but you can't" mentality) it perturbs me.


"...believes his actions in any way harm the actual sport of baseball or mlb either misjudges his stature or takes his actions as far more serious than they actually are."

i'm not worried about 'the game' - sheesh petroskey is a virtual liberal compared to some players and managers in baseball so i've no worries that baseball will survive in tact - but his actions and subsequent reactions of others ARE important.

if we condone his actions (his right to do it is not up for debate is it?) then we are condoning the restriction of free speech based on the potential that one may act upon one's own thought ('non-popular'/'popular', or 'anti-war'/'pro-war' it matters not).

"His main misdoing was to go public with this as he did. He could have simply cancelled what was basically a sham of a celebration anyway (15 years? So what!) and not put his politics in this. "

i.e. run the HOF with an ulterior but hidden conservative agenda but as long as we the public are sheltered from it it's okay, right? fortunately this is just the HOF and nothing of any real import.

i also agree with you that bezdomny got it right in an earlier post:
"...it seems that there are still some people so blinded by patriotic fervor that they don't see how unpatriotic his (petroskey's) actions were."



razors

[Sports Fan 07]

Originally posted by PeteF3
I think Petroskey's "reasonings" are a bunch of crap myself. What was Ari Fleischer there for last year, discussing the history of the Yankees? Petroskey wanted to impress his Republican buddies by quashing any possible speech made by an actor who happened to be anti-war, despite absolutely NO evidence that Robbins or Sarandon were going to say anything about the war at all. (Sarandon said nothing about the war the Oscars, an event watched by millions more people than this little HOF ceremony--why would she give a political speech at the Hall and not on a high-rated national TV event?)

Sarandon had commercials on TV out in California giving her anti-war, anti-Bush retoric.

[bezdomny]

That's irrelevant. Nobody's disputing that she's against the war, and she's got every right to buy ads on her own time. What we're disputing is whether there was any evidence she'd say something in an out-of-context situation. There is no such evidence.

[bly11]

Does anyone actually care about this anymore? Or can we now just put Petroskey and Sarandon on a one-way honeymoon cruise to North Korea?

[RickyZ]

what's ironic is that I doubt Robbins and Sarandon(being devout baseball fans) would have done any chirping about politics while there... as for me I won't go to the Hall until a) Shoeless Joe gets in, b) Pete Rose gets in, and c) Petrovskey gets the BOOT! He belongs with Bowie Kuhn in the brainless reactionary Hall of Fame.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Here's the link showing Petrovskey's letter and Robbins's response.

I barely remembered this episode; it seems so long ago. I wonder what people think about this now; now that the war in Iraq is unpopular. I wonder if Petrovskey would have done the same thing today as he did in 2003 (now that W. has obtained his second term).

Baseball is a conservative, establishmentarian sport (as one would expect of "America's Pastime"), but it can be so without being partisan or political. That's the part that Petrovskey doesn't get. (Is he even still running the HOF, by the way?)

I've never been a fan of the Hollywood glitterati spouting their opinions freely, as if they have some special insight, just because they are afforded media outlets in which to do so, but that's their 1st Amendment rights. I'm less of a fan of the idea that people need to remain silent on critical issues of war and peace because of our "men and women in uniform". That's well and good, and I wish them well, but the Armed Forces and Veterans' organizations have made marketing strategy with the idea that "Freedom isn't Free". Well, if what is being fought for means that people who disagree with the President, even in times of war, need to be silent, ostensibly because it will offend active soldiers, or veterans, or the families of same, then what is being fought for is not freedom. It really is as simple as that. If the only freedom I have is the freedom to agree and conform, then I live in a society where the 1st Amendment is a lost reality. If it's not freedom that our solidiers are fighting for, then they don't need to be fighting at all.

[baseball junkie]

I'll accept his apology, with his resignation attached.

[2Chance]

This thread is three years old. I don't believe there is much new to add to it, and certainly agree with Fuzzy and others that it is great that we have 1st Amendment rights but that often the Hollywood types see how far they can bend them since they have nothing better to do between movies. (Even if that's not exactly what he said.)

That said, I REALLY don't want to see a dredged three year old thread turn into a powder keg about the war, the current administration or Constitutional rights. Baseball or Dale Petrosky, or less likely, any update. Even an answer to Fuzzy Bear's question, would things be different today than in 2003 when this happened. (I don't know. Maybe there would be less of a knee-jerk reaction, perhaps a phone call instead of a letter since he knows better now.)

Answer to one question: Dale Petrosky is still President of the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Originally Posted by 2Chance

That said, I REALLY don't want to see a dredged three year old thread turn into a powder keg about the war, the current administration or Constitutional rights. Baseball or Dale Petrosky, or less likely, any update. Even an answer to Fuzzy Bear's question, would things be different today than in 2003 when this happened. (I don't know. Maybe there would be less of a knee-jerk reaction, perhaps a phone call instead of a letter since he knows better now.)

I do think that if the Bull Durham commeroration was planned for next week, it would go on as scheduled, with no fear of anything Tim Robbins or Susan Sarandon would say.

People feel differently about the issue now than in 2003, just judging by poll numbers, and there is an open back-and-forth dialogue on the issue that probably tends to diffuse politicizing what should be non-political events. The war is old news now, and while it's a hot-button issue, it's moved into the area of abortion, gun control, etc. People have strong, emotional opinions on these things, but even the glitterati don't usually have the urge to use non-political events to make a statement.