Tips On Sliders

[onbaseball]

Originally Posted by Billybob622

just curious though. I have pretty much mastered my fastball and change. My circle change (breaks away from a lefty or like a screwball), two-seamer- is the same as the circle change, and my four-seamer- i can make it sink like a splitter, but i have to throw completely straight over, but i can make it break either way (like the two seamer or like a cutter.) As my body biologically or maturally, i pretty much almost shave daily. Im exactly 15 1/2yrs old.

Also, if i throw a slider off-center, and throw just like a normal fastball, how does it damage my arm? Just curious. I also need something that breaks away from righties than just a cutter, all my pitches are hard against lefties.

OK, few things ...

First, "mastering" a pitch means you can put it within a few inches of where you want it 80% of the time in practice sessions.

Secondly, if you're throwing a "slider off-center" ... then what I think you mean is you are throwing a "fastball off-center", a la a "cutter". A slider is a pitch that requires a fairly violent "karate chop"-type of action right at the release, and in turn puts a significant amount of stress on the elbow and forearm. A cutter is similar, but is closer to a fastball and is thrown with a bit less of a twist or "chop".

Third, your four-seam fastball sinks? Interesting ... most RH four-seamers either go straight, rise a bit, or tail away from righties. You may want to experiment with your grip and finger pressure --- try applying more pressure with the middle finger upon release, and you may get a nice run away from the righties that you are looking for ... failing at that, try similar pressure with the two-seamer.

If you can throw a fastball that moves down and in and another down and away, using pressure points, and you are able to place it within a few inches of your target between 70-80 percent of the time, AND you are throwing a change-up with movement and good location, AND you are near maturity (you may want to consult a physician in regard to your growth plates), then you may start throwing an overhand curveball, under the supervision of a good pitching coach.

The overhand curve is the most neglected pitch in college and pro baseball because it is difficult to execute well, and because the slider is much easier and quicker to learn. However, the great thing about a curve is that it can and should be thrown for a strike, whereas a GOOD slider should be thrown out of the strike zone --- and if you have control of it, it can be used in any count. And strikes are a pitcher's best friend.

If it sounds like I hate the slider, well, I do ... to me it is an example of "the easy way out" for people looking for a "quick fix" or "instant gratification". The point of the slider is to make a batter swing and miss, and it should be used only by very advanced pitchers, and only very sparingly. However, because even a mediocre slider can be so lethal against poor hitters, pitchers and coaches tend to lean on it, and throw it too often --- which exacerbates its tendency to cause injury, especially to a young arm.

Making batters swing and miss is nice, but great pitchers are more efficient, and make batters HIT THEIR PITCH. The Holy grail of pitching is the three-pitch inning --- and that can't happen with strikeouts.

[CarmelPitcher]

Hey i have been throwing the slider for about a year now. It doesnt have as much movement as i would like. i was wondering if there is anyone out there who could give me some insider tips on how to improve the pitch. thanks!!

[wogdoggy]

google steve carlton and his website has the BESt instruction on a slider..be careful throwing that one in my opinion.

the key is keeping a bent wrist thru the pitch..see website

[CarmelPitcher]

Originally Posted by wogdoggy

google steve carlton and his website has the BESt instruction on a slider..be careful throwing that one in my opinion.

the key is keeping a bent wrist thru the pitch..see website

thanks a lot!!

[onbaseball]

Originally Posted by CarmelPitcher

Hey i have been throwing the slider for about a year now. It doesnt have as much movement as i would like. i was wondering if there is anyone out there who could give me some insider tips on how to improve the pitch. thanks!!

How old are you and why are you interested in throwing a slider? Do you throw a curveball and change-up ?

[CarmelPitcher]

Originally Posted by onbaseball

How old are you and why are you interested in throwing a slider? Do you throw a curveball and change-up ?

15, soph in hs, and yea i throw a curve and change. ive been throwing a curve since i was 12

[onbaseball]

Originally Posted by CarmelPitcher

15, soph in hs, and yea i throw a curve and change. ive been throwing a curve since i was 12

If you are in HS and can get a fastball, change, and curve over the plate consistently, then you don't need a slider. Concentrate on locating and getting movement on the fastball and change. The slider is something you can develop after mastering the basics, and when your body is more developed. The slider puts a lot of strain on the elbow, and is not necessary for success at your level.

Also, no college nor pro scout ever says "wow! what a great slider!" when evaluating a young pitcher. It's all about the fastball, and how you command it.

[Billybob622]

Originally Posted by onbaseball

If you are in HS and can get a fastball, change, and curve over the plate consistently, then you don't need a slider. Concentrate on locating and getting movement on the fastball and change. The slider is something you can develop after mastering the basics, and when your body is more developed. The slider puts a lot of strain on the elbow, and is not necessary for success at your level.

Also, no college nor pro scout ever says "wow! what a great slider!" when evaluating a young pitcher. It's all about the fastball, and how you command it.

Not to steal anyone's thread or anything. But what if you had to turn to a slider if you couldn't throw a curveball? Is it still ok?

(I can throw a curve sometimes, but when i can, it has a 50/50 chance on hitting the strike zone. I could never perfect it for some reason so i turned to the slider. And i throw a slider using the off-center grip, but i dont twist the wrist or anything, just throw it like a fastball, and it has a great, sharp, late movement. )

[EdmondsFan#1]

Originally Posted by Billybob622

Not to steal anyone's thread or anything. But what if you had to turn to a slider if you couldn't throw a curveball? Is it still ok?

(I can throw a curve sometimes, but when i can, it has a 50/50 chance on hitting the strike zone. I could never perfect it for some reason so i turned to the slider. And i throw a slider using the off-center grip, but i dont twist the wrist or anything, just throw it like a fastball, and it has a great, sharp, late movement. )

That's fine. I forgot who said the quote but when I was reading about sliders on some website some quote from a major leaguer said, "I always thought that sliders were for the people who couldn't throw curveballs."

[onbaseball]

Originally Posted by Billybob622

Not to steal anyone's thread or anything. But what if you had to turn to a slider if you couldn't throw a curveball? Is it still ok?

(I can throw a curve sometimes, but when i can, it has a 50/50 chance on hitting the strike zone. I could never perfect it for some reason so i turned to the slider. And i throw a slider using the off-center grip, but i dont twist the wrist or anything, just throw it like a fastball, and it has a great, sharp, late movement. )

You can start to think about throwing a slider when you are 18 years old and your body is fully grown. Until then, practice time should be spent on mastering the fastball and the change-up.

The curve you can maybe start to work on when you're 16 --- IF your body is fairly mature. Otherwise, it's probably best to wait until you're 18.

Yes, it's tempting to learn how to throw curves and sliders before then, because it's so easy to make batters --- especially the weak batters --- swing and miss at breaking pitches. However, in the long run, it's not worth the damage it can do to your arm. Instead of the significant time needed to throw a good curve or slider, you can spend that time really MASTERING a fastball and/or changeup that moves and sinks. When you get to higher levels, being able to control moving pitches, and change speeds, will help you against all hitters - strong and weak alike.

[wogdoggy]

Good post by joe janish!

[Billybob622]

Originally Posted by onbaseball

You can start to think about throwing a slider when you are 18 years old and your body is fully grown. Until then, practice time should be spent on mastering the fastball and the change-up.

The curve you can maybe start to work on when you're 16 --- IF your body is fairly mature. Otherwise, it's probably best to wait until you're 18.

Yes, it's tempting to learn how to throw curves and sliders before then, because it's so easy to make batters --- especially the weak batters --- swing and miss at breaking pitches. However, in the long run, it's not worth the damage it can do to your arm. Instead of the significant time needed to throw a good curve or slider, you can spend that time really MASTERING a fastball and/or changeup that moves and sinks. When you get to higher levels, being able to control moving pitches, and change speeds, will help you against all hitters - strong and weak alike.

just curious though. I have pretty much mastered my fastball and change. My circle change (breaks away from a lefty or like a screwball), two-seamer- is the same as the circle change, and my four-seamer- i can make it sink like a splitter, but i have to throw completely straight over, but i can make it break either way (like the two seamer or like a cutter.) As my body biologically or maturally, i pretty much almost shave daily. Im exactly 15 1/2yrs old.

Also, if i throw a slider off-center, and throw just like a normal fastball, how does it damage my arm? Just curious. I also need something that breaks away from righties than just a cutter, all my pitches are hard against lefties.

[EdmondsFan#1]

Originally Posted by Billybob622

Also, if i throw a slider off-center, and throw just like a normal fastball, how does it damage my arm? Just curious. I also need something that breaks away from righties than just a cutter, all my pitches are hard against lefties.

It won't. But that still doesn't take away the point that you should have a great fastball and changeup before you have a slider.

I can't imagine that hurting your arm if there is no twisting of the wrist because how you desribe it sounds like the same way someone throws a knuckle-curve, which doesn't hurt the arm at all...

But pitching is one thing where it's quality over quanity, why do you want so many pitches if you the only ones you have "mastered" are the fastball and changeup, which I highly doubt you have unless you are throwing a Trevor Hoffman changeup and a Nolan Ryan fastball.

[Billybob622]

Originally Posted by EdmondsFan#1

It won't. But that still doesn't take away the point that you should have a great fastball and changeup before you have a slider.

I can't imagine that hurting your arm if there is no twisting of the wrist because how you desribe it sounds like the same way someone throws a knuckle-curve, which doesn't hurt the arm at all...

But pitching is one thing where it's quality over quanity, why do you want so many pitches if you the only ones you have "mastered" are the fastball and changeup, which I highly doubt you have unless you are throwing a Trevor Hoffman changeup and a Nolan Ryan fastball.

As far as mastering, I mean accuracy, not speed. I can throw on both sides of the plate with no problem. But i dont understand why you ask why i want so many pitches. With the slider it would only make three. (I usually use the 4-seamer on righties and the 2-seamer on lefties because it breaks away from lefties.)