Second Edition Current Top 10 Third Basemen Poll

[tearforamariner]

This Post is deleted

[Yankee Legend]

This is the fourth installment of these position player polls. To vote, simple list the top 10 third basemen that are active in order from best (#1) to least (#10). The results will be tabulated and will be announced on Dec 10 @ 9 PM or 2 days after the last ballot was submitted. The points will be alloted based on the player's ranking on each list (1st place gets 10, 2nd gets 9, 3rd gets 8, etc.) Remember, YOU MUST LIST 10!!!!!

Although you may vote for whomever you see fit try to rate players in either performance in the 2006 mlb season or performance in the last 3-4 years. However, you may can use career performance as a factor. Also, be sure to look at both offensive and defensive performance.

Here are the results from the previous polls

Catchers http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=52858
1. Joe Mauer
2. Brian McCann
3. Jorge Posada
4. Ivan Rodriguez
5. Victor Martinez
6. Kenji Johjima
7. Michael Barrett
7. Paul Lo Duca
9. Ramon Hernandez
10. Jason Kendall
10. A.J. Pierzynski

First Basemen http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=53298
1. Albert Pujols
2. Lance Berkman
3. Ryan Howard
4. Justin Morneau
5. Carlos Delgado
6. Mark Teixeira
7. Paul Konerko
8. Nick Johnson
9. Jason Giambi
10. Derek Lee

Second Basemen http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=53805
1. Chase Utley
2. Robinson Cano
3. Dan Uggla
4. Ray Durham
5. Brian Roberts
6. Jeff Kent
7. Orlando Hudson
8. Tadihito Iguchi
9. Marcus Giles
10. Luis Castillo

[ChrisLDuncan]

1.) Alex Rodriguez
2.) Miguel Cabrera
3.) David Wright
4.) Aramis Ramirez
5.) Garrett Atkins
6.) Scott Rolen
7.) Ryan Zimmerman
8.) Joe Crede
9.) Freddy Sanchez
10.) Eric Chavez

[W_Marone]

Duncan you only have nine.....


1. A-Rod
2. Miguel Cabrera
3. David Wright
4. Aramis Ramirez
5. Scott Rolen
6. Joe Crede
7. Ryan Zimmerman
8. Garrett Atkins
9. Eric Chavez
10. Mike Lowell

[EvanAparra]

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Aramis Ramirez
4. David Wright
5. Scott Rolen
6. Garret Atkins
7. Ryan Zimmerman
8. Joe Crede
9. Eric Chavez
10. Mike Lowell

[Rapmaster]

1.) Alex Rodriguez
2.) David Wright
3.) Miguel Cabrera
4.) Chipper Jones
5.) Scott Rolen
6.) Aramis Ramirez
7.) Garrett Atkins
8.) Eric Chavez
9.) Ryan Zimmerman
10.) Mike Lowell

My most notable omission is Joe Crede. His OBP is just too low for me. I wouldn't be surprised if I put Morgan Ensberg, Andy Marte, Mark Teahen, Alex Gordon (if he plays 3rd), or Wilson Betemit in the next few installments.

[EvanAparra]

Out of curiosity, why Cabrera 3rd? He bests A-Rod and Wright in BA, OBP, and Slugging.

Also, in terms of OPS+ ---

Cabrera - 159
A-Rod - 140
Wright - 136

[Rapmaster]

Originally Posted by EvanAparra

Out of curiosity, why Cabrera 3rd?

Because he spent the majority of the last few seasons in the outfield while Wright and Rodriguez were manning third. I was looking at 3 or 4 year stretches, not just this year. What he did this year at third was just stellar and based on his former batting performances, he's due to repeat. He would've been second had he not played the outfield the last few years. I almost edged Chipper in there had it not been for his injuries. I couldn't give an injured guy (who did play a good bit though, and effectively) a spot over Cabrera.

I would love to see Cabrera play in a more balanced park every year though. Not a hitter's park, as then his merits would be trivialized by that (like how every Rockies hitter is only good because they play at Coors even though we all know that's not necessarily true) but not in a park like Pro Player where he can't shine in full glory.

[Rapmaster]

In response to your edit.

A-Rod is a premier player and although Cabrera may have had a better season, we all know what A-Rod is capable of. Cabrera may soon be better but again, small stretches opposed to single years is what I based it on and A-Rod has been stellar (especially 2005).

Wright has a lot of upside (to be fair, so does Cabrera) and again, the only reason he's ahead is due to the small strech thing. Cabrera wasn't technically a third baseman the last few years.

[W_Marone]

I had forgotten about Mark Teahen (sp?), but I'd have him off the top ten still, but maybe not in the third installment.

[ElHalo]

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. David Wright
3. Aramis Ramirez
4. Scott Rolen
5. Alex Rodriguez
6. Joe Crede
7. Eric Chavez
8. Garett Atkins
9. Ryan Zimmerman
10. Mike Lowell

[EvanAparra]

I wasnt aware this was not a '2006' thing -- Because Cabrera takes that easily, IMO. I just read the voting guidelines, and I'd like it if the thread starter would make it clear whether we should vote on a 3-4 span, career, or just 2006 so we can all be on the same page.

[Rapmaster]

Originally Posted by ElHalo

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. David Wright
3. Aramis Ramirez
4. Scott Rolen
5. Alex Rodriguez
6. Joe Crede
7. Eric Chavez
8. Garett Atkins
9. Ryan Zimmerman
10. Scott Rolen

You've got Rolen at both 4 and 10

[ChrisLDuncan]

Originally Posted by Go Gomes

Duncan you only have nine.....

Thanks, I dunno here I'm torn between Inge and Freddy Sanchez...Sanchez is great at the dish...but Inge's arm is so good.

[Yankee Legend]

Originally Posted by EvanAparra

I wasnt aware this was not a '2006' thing -- Because Cabrera takes that easily, IMO. I just read the voting guidelines, and I'd like it if the thread starter would make it clear whether we should vote on a 3-4 span, career, or just 2006 so we can all be on the same page.

Look at the first post. It's based on how you prefer to rank them.

[Erik Bedard]

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. David Wright
3. Alex Rodriguez
4. Aramis Ramirez
5. Scott Rolen
6. Garrett Atkins
7. Eric Chavez
8. Melvin Mora
9. Ryan Zimmerman
10. Freddy Sanchez

[Erik Bedard]

If you want to do it based on 3-4 year span, Melvin Mora should be on your list.

Mora's OPS+ for the last four years: 148, 149, 122, 91.
Wright's OPS+ for the last three years: 118, 138, 136.
Crede's OPS+ for the last four years: 94, 79, 106, 108.
Sanchez's OPS+ for the last two years: 92, 117.
Chavez's OPS+ for the last four years: 132, 132, 106, 106.

Mora has the weakest 2006, but if you like recent performance, then he beats out all these guys (except maybe Chavez).

[slugger33]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Miguel Cabrera
3. Eric Chavez
4. David Wright
5. Troy Glaus
6. Joe Crede
7. Freddy Sanchez
8. Scott Rolen
9. Aramis Ramirez
10. Melvin Mora

[Rapmaster]

Originally Posted by Erik Bedard

If you want to do it based on 3-4 year span, Melvin Mora should be on your list.

Mora's OPS+ for the last four years: 148, 149, 122, 91.
Wright's OPS+ for the last three years: 118, 138, 136.
Crede's OPS+ for the last four years: 94, 79, 106, 108.
Sanchez's OPS+ for the last two years: 92, 117.
Chavez's OPS+ for the last four years: 132, 132, 106, 106.

Mora has the weakest 2006, but if you like recent performance, then he beats out all these guys (except maybe Chavez).

Mora also has, by far, the weakest defense.

[tearforamariner]

Originally Posted by EvanAparra

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Aramis Ramirez
4. David Wright
5. Scott Rolen
6. Garret Atkins
7. Ryan Zimmerman
8. Joe Crede
9. Eric Chavez
10. Mike Lowell

If your criteria is just last season, how does Chavez make your list and Adrian Beltre not?

[Rapmaster]

Originally Posted by tearforamariner

If your criteria is just last season, how does Chavez make your list and Adrian Beltre not?

I would do the same. They both had terrible seasons, but Beltre's was worse and Chavez's was at least excusable (injury). One of them won a gold glove too, and his name wasn't Adrian.

[tearforamariner]

Originally Posted by Rapmaster

I would do the same. They both had terrible seasons, but Beltre's was worse and Chavez's was at least excusable (injury). One of them won a gold glove too, and his name wasn't Adrian.

To me, gold gloves aren't anything special. Chavez certainly did not deserve one last season. Neither did Beltre, and I would never say he did. But Eric Chavez won the award last year on name recognition. Nothing more. I don't see how Beltre had a worse season. His OPS is 10 points higher (OPS+ 2 points higher), he hit more home runs, doubles, and triples, had more RBI, scored more runs, had a higher BA and a a higher SLG, and grounded into fewer DPs. How did Chavez have a better season than Beltre?

[cardsfanatic]

Yet again, based on the 2006 baseball season only.

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. Garrett Atkins
3. David Wright
4. Chipper Jones
5. Alex Rodriguez
6. Scott Rolen
7. Freddy Sanchez
8. Aramis Ramirez
9. Troy Glaus
10. Ryan Zimmerman

[AznInvasion]

1. Miguel Cabrera
2. David Wright
3. Alex Rodriguez
4. Aramis Ramirez
5. Garrett Atkins
6. Joe Crede
7. Eric Chavez
8. Chipper Jones
9. Scott Rolen
10. Ryan Zimmerman

[Rapmaster]

Originally Posted by tearforamariner

To me, gold gloves aren't anything special. Chavez certainly did not deserve one last season. Neither did Beltre, and I would never say he did. But Eric Chavez won the award last year on name recognition. Nothing more. I don't see how Beltre had a worse season. His OPS is 10 points higher (OPS+ 2 points higher), he hit more home runs, doubles, and triples, had more RBI, scored more runs, had a higher BA and a a higher SLG, and grounded into fewer DPs. How did Chavez have a better season than Beltre?

Offensively, I would give the edge to Chavez. A difference in OPS by .010 is marginal. One or two extra bloop hits instead of popups will make a difference of .010 disappear. But if you look at the way their OPS broke down, Chavez had a clear advantage in OBP whereas Beltre had an advantage in slugging. I happen to value OBP more and Beltre's OBP was just too low. Chavez may not have deserved the gold glove last year but his defense is still better than Beltre's.