Manny Deal

[SwissRedSoxFan]

My bet Manny will stay in Boston or go to the Dodgers for Loney, Kemp and Broxton.

[ChrisLDuncan]

I feel dealing one of the top five right handed hiters in the history of baseball deserves it's own thread in CE, if the Mods disagree feel free to move this to BoSox forum or back to the Hot Stove thread. This isn't just rumors now chekc this out

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2677627

The Red Sox are aggressively shopping outfielder Manny Ramirez now, according to major league sources, at a time when the slugger's trade value has peaked, and there is a sense among some executives that their trade talks are gaining momentum.

"I wouldn't be shocked if the Red Sox traded him by Saturday," says one big league official.

By Saturday, Boston's negotiations with free agent outfielder J.D. Drew are expected to finish officially with a multiyear agreement. At that point, Boston will be in better position to trade Ramirez, who has driven in more than 100 runs in each of his six years with the Red Sox, and in 11 of the last 12 seasons. Ramirez has been an extraordinary producer of runs for Boston, and an equally extraordinary producer of melodrama. He has asked for trades repeatedly, has often played at something less than full speed, and at the end of the 2006 season, there was some question about whether he made a full effort to play with a sore knee.

Among the teams involved in the conversations:

• The San Francisco Giants, who might have to involve a third team to become a serious player in this market, or perhaps swallow some of Boston's worst contracts, like that of pitcher Matt Clement.

• The San Diego Padres, who can build a deal around reliever Scott Linebrink.

• The Dodgers, who are starved for power hitters, loaded with prospects and could probably offer the best possible package of youngsters, from third baseman Andy LaRoche to pitcher Chad Billingsley to outfielder Matt Kemp. Before the August 31 trade deadline, the Red Sox tried to pry first baseman James Loney from L.A. in return for pitcher David Wells, but the Dodgers refused. The Red Sox may resume their pursuit of Loney and perhaps relief pitcher Jonathan Broxton.

• The Rangers have had talks about Ramirez, but as recently as last week, the Red Sox still preferred to talk about a swap of shortstop Michael Young for Ramirez -- a deal that almost certainly won't happen.

The Orioles have spoken with the Red Sox about Ramirez recently, but their conversations hadn't advanced in recent days. The Indians and Red Sox talked last week, but those conversations are dead; the cost in salary and prospects were simply too high for the Indians. The Angels and Red Sox had talked in the past about a Manny deal, but those conversations have apparently ended.

Ramirez has 10-and-5 rights and can veto any deal, so the team working on a trade involving him would have to negotiate a settlement with Ramirez to get him to accept the swap.

Executives with other teams say that in order to move Ramirez, Boston will have to come to grips with the idea that they will not get back major league talent equal to that of Ramirez; rather, they might have to settle for a deal much like the Gary Sheffield trade the Yankees made early in November, when they got three pitching prospects from Detroit. There are indications now that Boston's trade demands for Ramirez are dropping, to facilitate a deal. "They seem motivated to move him," said an AL official. Ramirez signed an eight-year, $160 million deal with Boston after the 2000 season, and his contract was considered all but untradeable as recently as six months ago because of an annual salary that approaches $20 million; the Red Sox placed him on waivers after the 2003 season, and nobody was willing to even take him for free at that time.

But the recent salary explosion -- Alfonso Soriano's $136 million deal, Carlos Lee's $100 million contract -- has cast Ramirez and his salary in a different light.

If the Red Sox complete a Ramirez trade, there would be an enormous hole in the Boston lineup. But it may be that the Red Sox have other plans in the works if they gain contractual flexibility with a Ramirez deal, and with the addition of Drew and possible addition of Julio Lugo at shortstop, they might feel like they will still have a deep lineup.

A Ramirez trade may also have an enormous impact on No. 3 hitter David Ortiz. "That guy will draw about 200 walks next year without Manny hitting behind him," said one scout. "I don't care who it is who bats fourth instead of Manny -- J.D. Drew, or Wily Mo Pena, whoever -- he won't be as dangerous as Manny was, because Manny can hit good pitching."

I really think since the Red Sox backed off on the asking price the deal won't end up in their favor...however they can upgrade their defense and baserunning with this deal and possibly pick up a legit SS. If they move Coco Crisp to LF and Willy Mo Pena to Center that should help their OF D a lot.

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Although signing JD Drew is a bad idea IMO, it makes sense (if you think that Drew will be a replacement for Manny's bat, which I don't) to trade Manny.

If they trade him to the Dodgers for Broxton Loney and Kemp, I think that would be a great deal for both teams.

[EvanAparra]

Originally Posted by RichmondHillPhoenix

Although signing JD Drew is a bad idea IMO, it makes sense (if you think that Drew will be a replacement for Manny's bat, which I don't) to trade Manny.

If they trade him to the Dodgers for Broxton Loney and Kemp, I think that would be a great deal for both teams.

If we get Broxton, Loney, and Kemp for Manny -- I'll be dancing til the Cubs win a World Series!

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Does that sound reasonable? For me, I wouldn't give up Manny unless it was a great deal for my team. I wouldn't want it to be a Joe Thornton situation (Boston Bruins fans will know what I mean). Sorry for the hockey reference, but it's poignant.

[wigglestrue]

Bruins got crap for Thornton.
Any deal for Manny will have 2-3 of the best prospects in baseball.

[EvanAparra]

Originally Posted by wigglestrue

Bruins got crap for Thornton.
Any deal for Manny will have 2-3 of the best prospects in baseball.

Incredibly doubtful. One top prospect, another good one, and maybe a major league pitcher

[Richmond Hill Phoenix]

Originally Posted by wigglestrue

Bruins got crap for Thornton.
Any deal for Manny will have 2-3 of the best prospects in baseball.

Thats what I mean. They're not gonna trade Manny just for the sake of it.

[Zito75]

IMO, any young prospect is a good deal for Manny. Just as long as the BoSox can move that dough!

[wigglestrue]

If Manny were a FA right now...
A team would end up paying him what he's getting now, more or less.
And that team would also give up a 1st rounder, right?

I think two top prospects is the least the Sox should ask for.
Loney or LaRoche as the hitting prospect...
Elbert or Kershaw as the pitching prospect...
Broxton as the MLB pitcher.

[EvanAparra]

Originally Posted by wigglestrue

If Manny were a FA right now...
A team would end up paying him what he's getting now, more or less.
And that team would also give up a 1st rounder, right?

I think two top prospects is the least the Sox should ask for.
Loney or LaRoche as the hitting prospect...
Elbert or Kershaw as the pitching prospect...
Broxton as the MLB pitcher.

I think the reason the Sox haven't moved him in the past 3 years is because they're asking for the same thing you are.

[wigglestrue]

And I think if they don't get it, he won't be moved.

[EvanAparra]

Originally Posted by wigglestrue

And I think if they don't get it, he won't be moved.

I hope you're right.

[ESPNFan]

Originally Posted by wigglestrue

Bruins got crap for Thornton.
Any deal for Manny will have 2-3 of the best prospects in baseball.

The Bruins weren't forced to deal Thorton however.
The Sox are clearly dealing from a weaker position.
That being said Theo acumen in dealing with other teams is lightyears ahead of that bonehead Mike O'Connell.

For an MVP franchise center the Bruins got a 2nd line left wing, a #2 or 3 Defenseman and a Checking line center.
The baseball equivalent would be the Twins Trading Johan Santana to Red Sox for Kevin Youkillis, Willy Mo Pena and Julian Tavarez.

Not so good.

[wigglestrue]

Sox are not "forced" to trade Manny.

[hellborn]

Originally Posted by wigglestrue

If Manny were a FA right now...
A team would end up paying him what he's getting now, more or less.
And that team would also give up a 1st rounder, right?

I think two top prospects is the least the Sox should ask for.
Loney or LaRoche as the hitting prospect...
Elbert or Kershaw as the pitching prospect...
Broxton as the MLB pitcher.

I wouldn't call Loney or LaRoche prospects...they're ML hitters.
I'm sure that the Bosox are looking at this from a cost and quality point of view...they probably can't really replace Manny's quality, but they figure they should get some effective power hitting out of Wily Mo in LF for cheap, and whatever pitchers or SS they pick up in the trade should be fairly inexpensive, too. Drew won't be cheap and is a bigtime gamble, but, if he actually comes up with another year like he had in Atlanta (which I would never count on), you've basically got a Manny type hitter. Thing is that Manny does it EVERY year...

[Mariano_Rivera]

Originally Posted by ESPNFan

The Bruins weren't forced to deal Thorton however.
The Sox are clearly dealing from a weaker position.
That being said Theo acumen in dealing with other teams is lightyears ahead of that bonehead Mike O'Connell.

For an MVP franchise center the Bruins got a 2nd line left wing, a #2 or 3 Defenseman and a Checking line center.
The baseball equivalent would be the Twins Trading Johan Santana to Red Sox for Kevin Youkillis, Willy Mo Pena and Julian Tavarez.

Not so good.

Whats wrong with WMP and Youkillis?

Whatever the Sox get it won`t be equal value. The deal might have to include a CL and prospects for that to happen. Unless they get some sort of insane offer that happens when you switch fair trades off on MVP Baseball 2005

[Brannu]

Trading one of the best hitters in the game is just plain ... stupid.

There not going to be able to get another player to fill his shoes. Not going to happen. Plus, they would be losing arguably the best RBI guy in the league behind David Ortiz.

J.D. Drew and the best prospects is not enough for what you would lose by not having that particular bat in the lineup.

[W_Marone]

Not to mention some support of the fans, they love Manny, at least I think they do, but Im not a redsox fan, or a redsox buff.

[wigglestrue]

If the Sox get a good deal, we won't mind. Most of us, anyway.
We've been conditioned to expect a Manny trade for a few years now.

[EvanAparra]

Originally Posted by Go Gomes

Not to mention some support of the fans, they love Manny, at least I think they do, but Im not a redsox fan, or a redsox buff.

I'm a Sox fan, and I love Manny. Our World Series MVP, our idiot, our incredibly stupid baseball player at times -- But one of the greatest right-handed hitters in the history of baseball. I'll sure miss him if he goes -- but as Nomar, Pedro, and Johnny have all left -- I think i'm getting used to losing my favorite players -- Might be adding Manny and Trot to that list this year.

[ESPNFan]

Originally Posted by Rickey_Henderson

Whats wrong with WMP and Youkillis?

Whatever the Sox get it won`t be equal value. The deal might have to include a CL and prospects for that to happen. Unless they get some sort of insane offer that happens when you switch fair trades off on MVP Baseball 2005

There is nothing wrong with either one of those guys. Their value doesn't come close to equaling Santana's. Just like the players that Bruins got in return were not the equal of Joe Thorton. I tend to believe alot of the time that when superstar players change hands the team that gets the best player(s), not the greater number of players, fair better.

With Manny its a bit different, because the talant coming back may not be 100% known and the age of Manny and how his skills hold up over the next few years. I'm hearing rumors on Boston Radio that Jake Peavy may be part of a deal the Padre's are offering. Take that for what its worth but it seems, unlike recent years, that there is much more interest in trading for Manny this year.

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by wigglestrue

Sox are not "forced" to trade Manny.

If they're going to pay $51.1m just to talk to Matlsuzaka exclusively, that'll be more than what Manny is owed the next two years. In fact, it'll be less than what he'll be paid from 2006-08.

If they get JD Drew, they will replace Nixon. Who'll replace Manny? They'd better hope to get a big slugger in return.

[wigglestrue]

And for the umpteenth time, that $51M doesn't count toward payroll.

[hellborn]

Originally Posted by Mattingly

If they're going to pay $51.1m just to talk to Matlsuzaka exclusively, that'll be more than what Manny is owed the next two years. In fact, it'll be less than what he'll be paid from 2006-08.

If they get JD Drew, they will replace Nixon. Who'll replace Manny? They'd better hope to get a big slugger in return.

Wily Mo is clearly positioned to replace Manny in LF...I think they were hoping he'd take Nixon's place in RF, but he had trouble out there last season. I see Nixon as being 100% gone from Boston. There were a lot of hopeful comments about how "good" (=not as bad as RF) Wily Mo looked in CF, but that scares the crud out of me.
Wily Mo in LF, Crisp in CF, Drew in RF...but, are they really going to hang onto Crisp and start him. I think he deserves a chance to come back from his injury, but he might not get it in Boston. I don't know who is going to play RF if Drew is not signed, unless WMP gets another shot at it.
Maybe I'm a hopeless optimist, but I still am excited about what WMP could do with the bat.