Need a change-up

[CanadianKid]

Pitchers should learn a curveball before they are 16 but it should be thrown under a limit until they are fully developped. The early they learn to properly throw one the more successfull they will be.

[R_MIOK]

I'm 15 play JV baseball did pretty good last year in freshman with a fastball and slider (went 6-2) but i need to learn how to throw a change-up. I know the grips to throw it but it dosent break or even slow down at all (so my dad says) any links or tips?

Thanks.

[wogdoggy]

heres a decent tip...dont quit.change ups take a heckuva long time to develop and throw consistently so dont be discouraged .Play catch using the change up grip until you get a feel keep playing catch using the grip and then play catch so more.

Ok heres a way that a COACH in the chicagoland area who was taught the maddux change.to get a feel for what has to happen..HOLD the ball just like a fastball but use your TWO MIDDLE FINGERS ONLY...hold the ball down at your side with the two fingers and move the wrist up and down so you get used to feeling the ball with just those two fingers..kinda like when you dribble a basketball..NEXT place the outer fingers around the ball and EXPERIMENT with different movement BY moving the pinky up and down on the side...see how it works with the pinky riding high,,,,see how it acts when the pinky is more under the ball..BIGGEST TIP...AIM LOW AND LET THE BALL RELEASE IN FRONT..and throw just like a fastball without saying of course...HAVE CONFIDECE and AIM LOW let go out in front..and PRACTICE..it may not come for you until maybe 100 throws at first but eventually you'll get it

[EdmondsFan#1]

Yeah, changeups take a long time to learn. I have pretty much quit on my changeup because it only goes about 2 mph slower with no control. But i quit it because i have a great curveball and fastball, and im a lefty, so i dont really need it that much. But i encourage you not to quit on yours, especially if you are a righty. And try to stick to one grip so you can master it quicker and get used to the feel of it. Circle-changes tend to have more movement also, and i believe the circle change is the most popular form. I know that Anthony Reyes uses a circle change (he slows it down 17 mph with sick movement) and I know that Trevor Hoffman uses the palmball.

[R_MIOK]

thanks alot man...im gonna start throwing right now

[Jose Reyes]

It's probably your grip. My changeup really didn't go any slower than my fastball but then I learned a new one and it's a lot better and goes at a good speed. Try a whole bunch of grips and find which one works. I'm not completely sure if it has anything to do with the size of the pitcher's hands or fingers or anything but some grips just work for some and others don't.

[R_MIOK]

Originally Posted by Jose Reyes

It's probably your grip. My changeup really didn't go any slower than my fastball but then I learned a new one and it's a lot better and goes at a good speed. Try a whole bunch of grips and find which one works. I'm not completely sure if it has anything to do with the size of the pitcher's hands or fingers or anything but some grips just work for some and others don't.

which one works for you the best?

[R_MIOK]

or if anybody can tell me which one they think is the best at my level..

[Jose Reyes]

I put my middle and ring fingers over the seams just like your index and middle finger would be if it was a 4 seam fastball. My thumb goes under the ball and the tip of my index finger is on the knuckle of my thumb off of the ball. My pinky is off the ball.

Also make sure to not hold it too tight.

[R_MIOK]

alright thanks ill try that out

[punker268]

Just give it a little more back-spin. It's not supposed to break anywhere.

[chesspirate]

pick any grip you want, but cock your wrist back and keep it that way throughout the delivery, no 'snap'. That ball has to go slower.

another tip, stomp your stride leg into landing, it's an ineficient movement and wont allow as much energy to the throw as a 'normal' delivery

[wogdoggy]

pick any grip you want, but cock your wrist back and keep it that way throughout the delivery, no 'snap'. That ball has to go slower.

another tip, stomp your stride leg into landing, it's an ineficient movement and wont allow as much energy to the throw as a 'normal' delivery


stomp your stride?
no snap ?

[Chris O'Leary]

Originally Posted by chesspirate

another tip, stomp your stride leg into landing, it's an ineficient movement and wont allow as much energy to the throw as a 'normal' delivery

While this might work against younger or less experienced hitters, the problem is that good hitters may be able to notice the difference and get a sense of which pitch is coming.

I have my guys throw their change-ups EXACTLY like their fastballs, but with a different grip.

[chesspirate]

MLB pitcher(Former) Chris Hammond brought up the 'stomp' in an interview. The guy doesn't throw hard, just throws junk and that's what he did, in the bigs...

As for the no 'snap', i mean don't throw the ball naturally really, just keep that wrist cocked througout.

[Dev518]

I grip my change-up tight and don't snap my wrist. Ideveloped it by myself and it's definately slower than my fastball, but I've had alot of problems with control.

[EdmondsFan#1]

Changeups should be thrown exactly like your fastball, you have no idea what tiny little thing you could be doing different that could be tipping you off which is pretty much a free hit. Trust me, you might get away with it in high school but when you reach the college level they will be more observant. (And probably at the Senior Varsity level too...)

Do not grip the ball so tight, it loses movement and loses control. Remember that, looseness equals speed and movement, so it depends if you want to sacrifice speed on your changeup for movement or movement on your changeup for speed. So, i would just grip it right in between really. Also, gripping it too tight might alter your arm motion if it feels unnatural to you.

No snap of the wrist might slow down your arm speed. The key to a changeup is having the same arm speed as your fastball. If your arm speeds changes, that is the biggest tip of them all. I know that, I personally, would lose much arm speed. Remember, what does snapping of the wrist give you on your fastball? Movement and speed. So it brings me back to the, do you want to sacrifice movement on your changeup for speed? And, movement isn't the ball slowly drifting to the side by the way. Good movement should not drift (like having no snap of the wrist will probably get you)... This makes the location pretty obvious if they can keep back on it, and might not get you the groundout needed in some situations.

Hitters say that Trevor Hoffman's changeup seems like it's being pulled back by a string (Fading action.). As I stated before, he uses a palmball. Fading action on your changeup would be a killer thing to have especially at the HS level but, good luck getting it. I don't even know how to do it but i'm sure it has alot to do with release point, hiding the ball, arm angle, etc.

No offense to anyone, but just so you know R_MIOK chris o'leary is probably the most intelligent person here on pitching and his advice sounds the most... un-argueable, to me.

[chesspirate]

here's a photo of Hoffman's grip, pretty much unchanged since he started using it.

the following is taken from wikipedia so it's not me writing it...
However, for all intents and purposes, Hoffman is a two-pitch pitcher, alternating between fastballs and changeups. It is the arm action on the change up and the way that the pitch drops just before it reaches the plate (almost as if someone was pulling on a string attached to the pitch) that has allowed Hoffman to be as successful as he has been over the years.

Trevor Hoffman learned the change up, which he actually throws with a palmball [3] grip instead of a circle changeup grip, from teammate Donnie Elliott during the 1994 player's strike and began using the pitch in 1995 when he did not have his best fastball because he was pitching most of the year with a torn rotator cuff. Hoffman opted to pitch through the pain and have surgery in the off-season rather than end his season early. He came back the following year to throw in the low 90's, with a tight curveball and that terrific changeup, which reportedly made his fastball look as if was going 110 mph. The key to the pitch, Hoffman explains in the September 11, 2006 edition of ESPN The Magazine, is how he pinches the seam of the ball with his thumb and index finger as he releases it. He throws the changeup with the arm speed used to throw a fastball, the hitter thinks it's a fastball, it looks like a fastball. But when the hitter starts to swing, the ball is still yards away from the plate

[chesspirate]

another link talking about the Hoffman changeup with a pic of the grip in action.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/a...t=.jsp&c_id=sd

and, another link to an article about changeups...

http://experts.sportingnews.com/your...c.php?t=134436

[-Kyle-]

Are change ups really that hard? I throw relatively hard (65-75 fastball) and can throw two changeups that don't break, one around 50-55 (palmball) and the other 40-50 (slower arm motion) (. I still can't throw a curveball accurately though.) I never really had to practice it.

[EdmondsFan#1]

Originally Posted by -Kyle-

Are change ups really that hard? I throw relatively hard (65-75 fastball) and can throw two changeups that don't break, one around 50-55 (palmball) and the other 40-50 (slower arm motion) (. I still can't throw a curveball accurately though.) I never really had to practice it.

You are 13 years old don't even to try to throw a curveball unless your biological age is 16 or older. I'm not even joking.

I heard of a man who's father had died at a young age so he never had an old man to tell him not to throw junk, he was throwing screwballs, forkballs, slurves, and curves by the age of 13. Later in a game when he was only 15 years old he threw a pitch and his arm fell out of socket. He commented on a pitching instructor's webpage saying how he was happy his son would not have to have the same fate as he did. I hope you learn something from that, because you may very well have the same fate if you're trying to throw curves.

And trust me, I don't know one curveball thrower in my league that was 13-15 that threw a curve that I didn't slam on. (Vast majority of curves from a 13 year old don't break. They hang.)

[EdmondsFan#1]

Sorry for the double post, but I forgot to say that if you choose the palmball grip, the further you push the ball into your palm the slower it will be. This is because the further it is in your palm the more friction there is when it is released, which is why you should hold a fastball on your fingertips.

[chesspirate]

it's funny Edmonds that you don't throw a changeup, but act like THE authority on how to throw one.

I throw one, and i'm in an adult hardball league, not little league, i throw what was taught to me as a 'drawstring' it's held higher in the hand than a palmball, relaxed grip with my wrist cocked back. I don't do the Hammond 'stomp' personally but i have tried it, just didn't work for me.

As far as hitter recognizing things, i've played against guys that have played baseball thier whole lives, even guys that i've played with before who know i throw the changeup who now play against me have a hard time with it. Trust me on one thing, most people can't pick up on arm speed unless there is a drastic difference. If you have the same arm angle though, that's important, it's easier to pick up location than speed, the brain figures location first (can't remember the study, but it's scientific or something).

How about this... Try it, try that, try anything, you'll find what works and what doesn't.

Have fun

[EdmondsFan#1]

Originally Posted by chesspirate

it's funny Edmonds that you don't throw a changeup, but act like THE authority on how to throw one.

There is a big difference between knowing and doing. If you are so Fu--ing mature and more intelligent I guess you would know that, wouldn't you?

Here's some more advice: Don't waste your time argueing with me. I'm not hear to argue with people over the internet. I'm here to give advice to the one's asking. More advice, you act like your can't smell the sh-- on your own knees, I suppose you have heard that saying before if you are so much more intelligent and knowledgable. Mens' hardball league, eh? That makes so you professional? I might be sounding like a hypocrite, but I spend about an hour a day making long posts trying to be informative and helpful. I never said that he had to take my advice and if you don't want to then you don't have to. And actually, you will not see a post from me where I'm not completely sure of what I am talking about, I stay out of conversations that I don't know anything about. But I guess your ego is so large what a younger one has to say means nothing to you. Anyway, have fun with that mens' volunteer hardball league .

Edit: And of course JakePatterson is going to come along and delete this post and probably ban me.

[CanadianKid]

I throw my change up using the basic circle change grip. I make a circle with my index and thumb and put my middle and ring finger on top of the ball along the seams and my pink on the side to hold the ball in place. It's roughly 15mph slower than my fastball with sink at the end. To get the sink I turn the ball so that the "circle" I've created wit my thumb and index points upward and when thrown the seams spin in such a way that a circle is visible.

Honestly a good change up is a valuable pitch to have at any age, it does not damage the arm as say a curve or slider would and throws off the hitters timing if thrown after a well place fastball. So if your 13-14 I'd say work on your change up before moving up to curves and sliders.