Arte Moreno's Vision.

[wbaxter1]

The Dodgers' Team, The Stadium, Parking, Concessions are all owned by Frank McCourt and The Dodgers. They own EVERYTHING, they get everything, except for the taxes they pay TO THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES (The Angels don't pay taxes to L.A; that is why The Dodgers are considered to be L.A.'s real L.A. team). Also, a tradition was established where 3 million fans would come out to see their Dodgers play, win or stink. The Angels Fans only came out when the team was winning. The Dodgers became so financially wealthy from all this, they were able to charge much lower cost for tickets where a lot of Latinos and other low income families could afford an evening of entertainment. Dodger Tickets are considerably lower than Angels Tickets. Arte Moreno, seeing all this said to himself "That's what I want."

THAT IS ARTE'S VISION for The Angels--to own it all. TEAM, Stadium, Concessions, Parking, and charge low price tickets so Low income Latino Families can afford an evening of entertainment.. In other words, he wants to own the "Yankees and Red Sox Team of the West Coast." One important fact which was overlooked, however, was TRADITION. Even if The Angels were to win the next five world series in a row, The Dodgers are the "Dominant MLB Team of the West Coast, and probably always will be, because of Tradition. Because of Tradition, The Dodgers are an L/A. Team, The Padres are a San Diego Team, and The Angels are an Orange County Team. Moreno's Options basically are: 1) an Orange County Team, or 2) an Orange County Team with a phony L.A. Label attached. Moreno has chosen option 2, and The Dodgers are still the dominant team in California.

[Angels Hawker]

Originally Posted by wbaxter1

Dodger Tickets are considerably lower than Angels Tickets.

That is so wrong, the Angels have cheaper tickets than 27 of the 30 MLB teams. Dodger ticket prices are way more expensive. It costs me more to park and about 4 times the amount for tickets. Dodger Stadium does have some cheaper concessions, but they went up after the remodeling too.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Angels Hawker

That is so wrong... Dodger ticket prices are way more expensive.

It's all relative. Dodgers premium seats are pricier, but you can also get a seat directly behind home plate at Dodger Stadium for only $6 (and only $3 as a partial or full season-plan -- the Best deal in all of MLB in my opinion) and also their outfield Pavilion seats are much cheaper than the Angels.

[CaliforniaCajun]

Originally Posted by wbaxter1

The Dodgers' Team, The Stadium, Parking, Concessions are all owned by Frank McCourt and The Dodgers. They own EVERYTHING, they get everything, except for the taxes they pay TO THE CITY OF LOS ANGELES (The Angels don't pay taxes to L.A; that is why The Dodgers are considered to be L.A.'s real L.A. team). Also, a tradition was established where 3 million fans would come out to see their Dodgers play, win or stink. The Angels Fans only came out when the team was winning. The Dodgers became so financially wealthy from all this, they were able to charge much lower cost for tickets where a lot of Latinos and other low income families could afford an evening of entertainment. Dodger Tickets are considerably lower than Angels Tickets. Arte Moreno, seeing all this said to himself "That's what I want."

THAT IS ARTE'S VISION for The Angels--to own it all. TEAM, Stadium, Concessions, Parking, and charge low price tickets so Low income Latino Families can afford an evening of entertainment.. In other words, he wants to own the "Yankees and Red Sox Team of the West Coast." One important fact which was overlooked, however, was TRADITION. Even if The Angels were to win the next five world series in a row, The Dodgers are the "Dominant MLB Team of the West Coast, and probably always will be, because of Tradition. Because of Tradition, The Dodgers are an L/A. Team, The Padres are a San Diego Team, and The Angels are an Orange County Team. Moreno's Options basically are: 1) an Orange County Team, or 2) an Orange County Team with a phony L.A. Label attached. Moreno has chosen option 2, and The Dodgers are still the dominant team in California.

I'll go along with you on the tradition angle, because the Dodgers clearly have an edge. The way you get it for yourself is to win, and Moreno is taking steps that Autry and Disney didn't to put them in the best possible position to win and win often like the Dodgers did in the 40s-70s.

The Angels are NOT solely an Orange County team, they are and have always been a team representing the SAME territory as the Dodgers. The Angels paid the Dodgers $350,000 in 1961 to acquire the same territorial rights. The Angels have been regarded as OC's team because Autry and Disney didn't reach out to the entire market area.

The Dodgers got their own stadium because the City of Los Angeles offered them FREE land on which to build it. To this day there are bereaved Brooklyn Dodger fans who miss their team, and that's probably the reason why Walter O'Malley isn't in the Hall of Fame. The Dodger owner did the same things that Moreno is being accused of trying to do. The Angels couldn't afford land in the City of Los Angeles and weren't given it, so they relocated somewhere else in the L.A. market. The Dodgers probably wouldn't have been able to build in L.A. either had the land not been given to them.

The Angel owner is doing what he has to do to compete in his marketplace, which the team hasn't successfully done throughout most of its existence, and he's doing a great job.

If OC wants to keep the Los Angeles Angels forever and doesn't want to continue maintaining a ballpark, they can (1) quit making Moreno's stay miserable for doing what he has to do to get his business on firm footing, and (2) offer Moreno land on which to build his own park. If the Angels ever left OC, they would relocate within the same marketplace and therefore prevent another MLB team from moving to OC. I wouldn't like to see them experience the same grief as the Brooklyn fans, which has gone on for 49 years with no end in sight. I spent my formative years in OC and want the Angels to remain there.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

If the Angels ever left OC, they would relocate within the same marketplace and therefore prevent another MLB team from moving to OC. I wouldn't like to see them experience the same grief as the Brooklyn fans, which has gone on for 49 years with no end in sight. I spent my formative years in OC and want the Angels to remain there.

Angel fans wouldn't experience the same grief as the Brooklyn fans. Brooklyn fans are a different breed because Brooklyn has no identity of its own other than the Dodgers legacy - They invested their entire emotional existance to the Dodgers and it bit them in the ass. Now half a century later they're still hanging on to self-pity and bitterness for their entire lives about their team - that would not happen here. SoCal sports culture is to diverse to be left bankrupt like that. Angel fans would experince the same grief as Rams fans after they moved. Sad for awhile and then you get over it and move on. This is SoCal, not Brooklyn. After all, we still have college football which has always been our biggest draw and passion. Anyway it's a moot point - the Angels aren't going anywhere out of the greater LA area. We're stuck wiith them.

[KCGHOST]

Los Angeles did not "give" the land to the O'Malley's out of some benighted civic mindedness. It was part of the deal to get O'Malley to move from Brooklyn. The Angels never had that kind of leverage.

I really doubt Moreno is losing lots of sleep over "the low-income Latin" families in his area. If he really wanted them to attend he would arrange special low-cost tickets and concessions for them. I think what he is after is to attract the middle class Latin community to see the Angels at major league prices.

[wbaxter1]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

I'll go along with you on the tradition angle, because the Dodgers clearly have an edge. The way you get it for yourself is to win, and Moreno is taking steps that Autry and Disney didn't to put them in the best possible position to win and win often like the Dodgers did in the 40s-70s.

The Angels are NOT solely an Orange County team, they are and have always been a team representing the SAME territory as the Dodgers. The Angels paid the Dodgers $350,000 in 1961 to acquire the same territorial rights. The Angels have been regarded as OC's team because Autry and Disney didn't reach out to the entire market area.

The Dodgers got their own stadium because the City of Los Angeles offered them FREE land on which to build it. To this day there are bereaved Brooklyn Dodger fans who miss their team, and that's probably the reason why Walter O'Malley isn't in the Hall of Fame. The Dodger owner did the same things that Moreno is being accused of trying to do. The Angels couldn't afford land in the City of Los Angeles and weren't given it, so they relocated somewhere else in the L.A. market. The Dodgers probably wouldn't have been able to build in L.A. either had the land not been given to them.

The Angel owner is doing what he has to do to compete in his marketplace, which the team hasn't successfully done throughout most of its existence, and he's doing a great job.

If OC wants to keep the Los Angeles Angels forever and doesn't want to continue maintaining a ballpark, they can (1) quit making Moreno's stay miserable for doing what he has to do to get his business on firm footing, and (2) offer Moreno land on which to build his own park. If the Angels ever left OC, they would relocate within the same marketplace and therefore prevent another MLB team from moving to OC. I wouldn't like to see them experience the same grief as the Brooklyn fans, which has gone on for 49 years with no end in sight. I spent my formative years in OC and want the Angels to remain there.

I know you would like them to remain here in OC, but if the city has become The Angel's "Slumlord," and doing a lot of things I think they are doing, I don't think that will happen. I have heard that The Department of Health has closed down a section of the stadium, and when there are scuffles between fans in the stands, Anaheim P.D. is comming down a lot harder on Angels Fans than Visiting Team Fans. However, I havn't read anything in the papers about the city continuing to hassle Moreno since the appeal back in The Spring. Other than not keeping the stadium up to code, there seems to be all the earmarks of a "Cease fire."

[Elvis]

A lot of Southern California communities will be wooing Moreno in some way or another when the team becomes a "free agent" after the Anaheim Stadium lease is up in several years. But public money for stadiums is not easy to come by in these parts. Will Moreno play hard ball? Where might the Angels end up? A new Anaheim ballpark? Inland Empire? Irvine? Long Beach? Vegas? Portland? San Antonio? Mexico City? Catalina Island?

[CaliforniaCajun]

Originally Posted by wbaxter1

I know you would like them to remain here in OC, but if the city has become The Angel's "Slumlord," and doing a lot of things I think they are doing, I don't think that will happen. I have heard that The Department of Health has closed down a section of the stadium, and when there are scuffles between fans in the stands, Anaheim P.D. is comming down a lot harder on Angels Fans than Visiting Team Fans. However, I havn't read anything in the papers about the city continuing to hassle Moreno since the appeal back in The Spring. Other than not keeping the stadium up to code, there seems to be all the earmarks of a "Cease fire."

Bill, look at the LA Times article on the 49er's possible move to Santa Clara. The 49er owner will not change the name and the Santa Clara still wants them. And it looks like the project would be privately financed. Gene Autry created all of this turmoil by changing the Angels name in preparation to moving to Anaheim. Autry was a beloved owner but not a wise one.

I think you might be seeing more of this kind of thing in the future if it costs $1 billion dollars to build where you are and $600 million to relocate nearby.

[wbaxter1]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

Bill, look at the LA Times article on the 49er's possible move to Santa Clara. The 49er owner will not change the name and the Santa Clara still wants them. And it looks like the project would be privately financed. Gene Autry created all of this turmoil by changing the Angels name in preparation to moving to Anaheim. Autry was a beloved owner but not a wise one.

I think you might be seeing more of this kind of thing in the future if it costs $1 billion dollars to build where you are and $600 million to relocate nearby.

The City of Santa Clara is willing to host The 49ers for San Francisco, and there is nothing wrong with that. A lot of suburban communities do that: Auburn Hills, and Pontiac, MI, Irving, Texas; and East Rutherford, NJ. Each of these suburban communities were more than willing to host these teams for these prominant cities nearby. Even though Anaheim is NOt a suburb, it was willing to host The Rams for LA, and for awhile, Anaheim was offering to host a future expansion team for LA, but the NFL took to much time.

The Angels is a completely isolated incident from The Cowboys, Jets, Giants (NFL), Pistons and Lions. None of these teams EVER carried the names of any of these suburban cities, and then later change the name to a more prominant city nearby, without moving the team there. The Angels and Arte Moreno are the only organization that has ever done this, and Moreno is the only one that ever will do this. This will never happen again in the History of Sports, with any other franchise. The Angels were The Anaheim Angels, and before that they were The California Angels. California was used EXCLUSIVELY for Anaheim/Orange County until Anaheim became the more accepted moniker.

When Dr. Samueli bought the Mighty Ducks from Disney, he said changing the name to LA was out of the question. He is currently having a lot more success with his Anaheim Ducks than Moreno is having with his LA Angels. The Owners of the new Anaheim Arsenal Basketball Team also said "Los Angeles" is completely out of the question. Anaheim is its own market now; in fact a lot of the very large metro areas (Greater New York, The Bay Area, and The Southland) have each been devided into two sports markets: one big and one small. My guess is that The NFL didn't want to bring the expansion team to Anaheim, because a team in Anaheim should be Anaheim; but, they wanted the first NFL Team in The Southland Metro Area to be an LA one. Only if a second team was brought to The Southland, would there be an Anaheim one.

Anyway, I am sorry that your owner is so unpopular, and he probably does deserve better, because there are a lot of good things he has done for The Angels Organization. However, it is wrong to blame Mayor Pringle and The City and its supporters, for him being unpopular and bashed, because it was Arte, and Arte alone who made that unpopular decision. Anaheim is getting its own Walk of Fame now on Harbor Blvd. Gene Autry and Dr. Samueli will most likely have stars on the new Walk of Fame. Arte Moreno will not. That's just the way it is.

[CaliforniaCajun]

Originally Posted by wbaxter1

However, it is wrong to blame Mayor Pringle and The City and its supporters, for him being unpopular and bashed, because it was Arte, and Arte alone who made that unpopular decision. Anaheim is getting its own Walk of Fame now on Harbor Blvd. Gene Autry and Dr. Samueli will most likely have stars on the new Walk of Fame. Arte Moreno will not. That's just the way it is.

Walter O'Malley probably won't get into the Baseball Hall of Fame for making the unpopular decision taking the Dodgers away from Brooklyn.

The Angels should not be required to pay forever for a mistake Gene Autry made. Credit the 49er owner for not being willing to make a similar mistake if/when the team relocates to Santa Clara.

[wbaxter1]

Originally Posted by CaliforniaCajun

Walter O'Malley probably won't get into the Baseball Hall of Fame for making the unpopular decision taking the Dodgers away from Brooklyn.

The Angels should not be required to pay forever for a mistake Gene Autry made. Credit the 49er owner for not being willing to make a similar mistake if/when the team relocates to Santa Clara.

I think there were 4 Teams is the New York Area before The Dodgers moved to L.A; and none in California. Both, The Dodgers and the Giants moved to California. Four Teams in The Big Apple, and none in California would not have been to good.

Gene Autry was a loved and respected owner, Moreno is unpopular. I don't think The Team paid for anything Autry did. I know that Gene didn't want to be secondary to The Dodgers, like The Mets are to The Yankees. The Angels may be paying now, ecause a lot of people don't want to deal with an unpopular owner. Let's see what happens with this Alfanso Soriano Venture.