Innocent until proven guilty but...

[Joltin Joe Giradio]

Every player who has been named for using drugs has not exactly turned out to be innocent.

So... let's face it. Clemens and Pettitte both used.

[EvanAparra]

You will probably get pounced on...starting....NOW!

[PopTop]

Originally Posted by Joltin Joe Giradio

So... let's face it. Clemens and Pettitte both used.

Both used what?

And what exactly does 'innocent under proven guilty' mean?

Before you just take something one of the talking heads with ESPN and FOX tells you as the gospel, it might be wise to check out this article. Let me know if you need help with the big words.

Arizona Republic Link
Grimsley did not name Clemens, others
Former D-Backs pitcher's attorney refutes steroids report

Joseph A. Reaves
The Arizona Republic
Oct. 2, 2006

Former Diamondbacks pitcher Jason Grimsley told federal agents questioning him about illicit drugs in baseball last spring that “never in a million years” would star pitchers Roger Clemens and Andy Pettitte use steroids, human growth hormone or any other illegal performance enhancers, Grimsley's attorney said Monday.

“Jason told them (the federal agents) he had no knowledge of Clemens and Pettitte using any illegal drugs and told them that never in a million years would either of them use,” attorney Ed Novak told The Arizona Republic.

Novak said the agents, not Grimsley, brought up Clemens and Pettitte and that recent published reports were incorrect claiming Grimsley also identified former Baltimore Orioles teammates Brain Roberts and Jay Gibbons as players who “took anabolic steroids.”

An affidavit filed in federal court in Phoenix last May by Jeff Novitzky, a special agent for the Internal Revenue Service, claimed Grimsley identified a series of major league players and a personal trainer whom he knew used illegal performance-enhancing drugs.

The names of those players and trainer were blacked when the affidavit was made public and never have been confirmed on the record by anyone who has seen it. However, the Los Angeles Times reported last weekend it was allowed to see an unedited copy of the affidavit provided by an anonymous source who refused to allow the newspaper to keep the 22-page document.

According to the Times, Grimsley identified Clemens, Pettitte, Roberts, Gibbons and Baltimore shortstop Miguel Tejada as players who used illegal performance-enhancing drugs. Former Baltimore first baseman David Segui had said earlier his name was mentioned in the affidavit.

“As to all five players named, Jason did not attribute steroid use to any of them,” said Novak, vice president of the Arizona State Bar and head of the white collar crime group of the prestigious law firm Quarles & Brady Streich Lang.

“There was no mention of Roberts or Gibbons at all. The agents didn't even mention Roberts or Gibbons.”

Late Monday, shortly after Novak denied Grimsley implicated Clemens, Pettitte, Roberts or Gibbons, the federal prosecutor overseeing the investigation of illicit drugs in baseball issued an unusual statement that also cast doubt on the story.

“In view of recent news reports purporting to identify certain athletes whose names had been redacted from the government's search warrant filings in the Grimsley matter, and in the interests of justice, please be advised that these reports contain significant inaccuracies,” said Kevin Ryan, U.S. Attorney in San Francisco.

Besides the five players, the Los Angeles Times also reported that former Yankees trainer Brian McNamee, now personal trainer to Clemens and Pettitte, hooked Grimsley up with a source who helped him obtain amphetamines, anabolic steroids and human growth hormone (HGH).

Grimsley was questioned by agents who were waiting April19 when the pitcher received an illegal shipment of HGH at his Scottsdale home. Novitzky's sworn affidavit says Grimsley, who still hasn't been charged with any crime, originally agreed to cooperate with investigators but stopped a week later after hiring an attorney.

“This affidavit was written nearly two months after the event, based on the memory of the agent,” Novak said, noting the affidavit was filed May31. “The FBI purposely does not record interviews because it does not want the public to know its interviewing process.”

[LouGehrig]

I am having trouble with a term. Please help me. What is the meaning of the term, "cover story?"

[KCGHOST]

Let's see. Grimsley denies he named those guys and federal prosecutor says there are serious inaccuracies in the L.A. Times story. Now what are the talking heads going to do. Do you think they will even spend a tenth the time discussing the rebuttal to the story??

[runningshoes]

Originally Posted by Joltin Joe Giradio

Every player who has been named for using drugs has not exactly turned out to be innocent.

So... let's face it. Clemens and Pettitte both used.

And the award goes to.......

[PopTop]

As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Or at least the 26 words that started this thread. Good stuff, runningshoes

[Joltin Joe Giradio]

Originally Posted by PopTop

Both used what?

And what exactly does 'innocent under proven guilty' mean?

Here you are, trying to portray me as a moron, which I won't take offense to or sink to your level. Except, if you are going to do this, at least try not to sabotage yourself by reading words correctly. I don't know where you got "under" from.

Before you just take something one of the talking heads with ESPN and FOX tells you as the gospel, it might be wise to check out this article. Let me know if you need help with the big words.

Yeah, can you do dummies like myself a favor and translate the article into third grade English. And add some crayon drawings as visual aids. You know, complete with pictures of syringes and naked asses.

[PopTop]

The thread was originally titled '...under proven guilty' and, no, I can't sink to your level and translate stuff into your 3rd-grade reading level. Ask your mother to do that for you when she's not busy warming your bottle.

[nolanryan5714]

Originally Posted by PopTop

The thread was originally titled '...under proven guilty' and, no, I can't sink to your level and translate stuff into your 3rd-grade reading level. Ask your mother to do that for you when she's not busy warming your bottle.

You crack me up, Willie.

[Joltin Joe Giradio]

Originally Posted by PopTop

The thread was originally titled '...under proven guilty' and, no, I can't sink to your level and translate stuff into your 3rd-grade reading level. Ask your mother to do that for you when she's not busy warming your bottle.

Apparently this is a magic thread that magically changes words on its own. I editted the content of the message about one minute after I initially posted this. I have never altered the title. The thread title has always been "...UNTIL proven guilty..." It's your problem when you can't read.

Really? You still sucked milk when you were in the third grade? Otherwise why would you make a suggestion like that?

[PopTop]

You're the one who mentioned 3rd-grade, numbnuts. Go crawl back into whatever hole you were in before you came in here stirring ups crap about a subject you know nothing about.