Echoes of OUR Ebbets Field in Queens!

[DODGER DEB]

The NY Daily News is reporting today that it looks like Fred Wilpon, Chairman/CEO of the NY Mets, will finally get his Ebbets Field of Dreams!

The design for the Mets new $600 million stadium will evoke "the look and feel" of OUR beloved Ebbets Field, home of OUR BROOKLYN DODGERS. It will even include a "360 Rotunda", similar to OUR Rotunda. Read more...

http://www.nydailynews.com/front/sto...p-332277c.html

c.

[theAmazingMet]

Yeah, I red this in today's paper. Such good news, but who knows how long it will take to build. Another good side-point to this stadium getting built is the city's plans to revitalize Willets Point and clear out all the scrapyards, so people will have things to do before, and after the game in the immediate area. Newsday had an article about this during the summer, and it included pics of what the stadium should look like. While the outside will resemble Ebbets Field the inside looked too utalitarian, and impersonal. Hopefully that look changes. Anything is better than Shea however. I just hope they continue to honor Bill Shea (whose efforts to force the NL to give back a NY franchise MUST NEVER be forgotten!) by naming the new stadium after him, and not naming it "Sell-out Stadium" or "7-11 Field" or any other stupid corporate name. Remember it was NL president Warren Giles who said "We don't need New York". Thankfully Bill Shea was smarter and more determined than those who tore the heart out of the city by allowing not one but two storied franchises to leave in the name of the almighty buck.

I don't want to spoil your party...
But IMO this is just another retro ballpark.

I guess the Brooklyn Dogers fans can give an answer to my question. Do you really think that this new ballpark will have the same athmosphere as Ebbets Field? When I read your posts, when I see the pictures of Ebbets Field, I get the feeling that Ebbets Field was unique in every way. I think no clone can represent that.

Just my two cents.

[DODGER DEB]

Originally Posted by yankees rule

I don't want to spoil your party...
But IMO this is just another retro ballpark.

I guess the Brooklyn Dogers fans can give an answer to my question. Do you really think that this new ballpark will have the same athmosphere as Ebbets Field? When I read your posts, when I see the pictures of Ebbets Field, I get the feeling that Ebbets Field was unique in every way. I think no clone can represent that.

Just my two cents.

The answer to your question, yr....NO!!!

Nothing will ever bring back that wonderful feeling WE felt each time WE entered!

OUR EBBETS FIELD was ONE of a KIND.....and will remain just that!

c.

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by DODGER DEB

The answer to your question, yr....NO!!!

Nothing will ever bring back that wonderful feeling WE felt each time WE entered!

OUR EBBETS FIELD was ONE of a KIND.....and will remain just that!

c.

In that case, let me ask this very person question re Ebbets Field:

Do you think it's a good or a bad idea that the Mets are trying to recreate that kind of atmosphere?

[The Real McCoy]

This is akin to someone other than Tony Bennett singing "I Left My Heart in San Francisco." This is like those ersatz "'50s" diners in the 1980s that were all gleam and glitter and recalled absolutely nothing about eating sausage and eggs and homefries at 4:30 AM on a Saturday morning. There's only one first love, one first drink (probably Seven and seven), one first big league game and there certainly was, is, and will forever be, only one Ebbets Field.

What we'll get here is some lackluster attempt at recreating a time, a field and an aura of a team and a borough that it is impossible, under any circumstances, to recreate. It was a time and place that is better left to our memories and this sure-to-be-a-botch job of what for many of us are inviolate experiences is simply another bureaucratic disaster waiting to happen. And it's in Queens, for God's sakes.

Give the Mets their stadium. Let them keep Dodger Blue as part of their colors, but don't mess with saints and shrines. And if and when it happens, as it probably will, make sure they get Wayne Newton to sing "I Left My Heart in San Francisco."

[DODGER DEB]

Originally Posted by Mattingly

In that case, let me ask this very person question re Ebbets Field:

Do you think it's a good or a bad idea that the Mets are trying to recreate that kind of atmosphere?

While I don't think it is a completely bad idea, I don't see it as a good one either. Here it is nearly 50 years since they took OUR DODGERS from US, and 46 years since they felt the need to flatten OUR Home, and still people cling to having a piece of OUR proud history. To me, that is truly amazing!

Fred Wilpon was one of US back then. He loved OUR DODGERS as much as WE did. Now that he is the sole decision maker, I think he is living out his fantasy...and that isn't all bad! I only wish I could live out mine! Though it may "look like" OUR Ebbets Field, they will never be able to recreate the atmosphere and "smell" of OUR home. All of that when down with the bulldozer.

There will always and forever be only one EBBETS FIELD! It was all OURS...and WE are the very proud ones, and the only ones, that can make that statement.

c.

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by DODGER DEB

While I don't think it is a completely bad idea, I don't see it as a good one either. Here it is nearly 50 years since they took OUR DODGERS from US, and 46 years since they felt the need to flatten OUR Home, and still people cling to having a piece of OUR proud history. To me, that is truly amazing!

Fred Wilpon was one of US back then. He loved OUR DODGERS as much as WE did. Now that he is the sole decision maker, I think he is living out his fantasy...and that isn't all bad! I only wish I could live out mine! Though it may "look like" OUR Ebbets Field, they will never be able to recreate the atmosphere and "smell" of OUR home. All of that when down with the bulldozer.

There will always and forever be only one EBBETS FIELD! It was all OURS...and WE are the very proud ones, and the only ones, that can make that statement.

Very strong words, and ones which I greatly cherish and admire!

BTW, I'd meant "personal" re baseball, not "person". My bad.

Anyway, if at least the new stadium (presuming it's even built, with the way zoning requirements, community board approval, taxpayer dollars, etc in NYC goes, if say this were magically built and looked very much like Ebbets Field (sans the trollies and 1950s cars), do you think you could go there and have a hot dog? Peanuts? Get used to it, and dare I say, even enjoy it?

I hope I'm not being rude, but I just wanted to know just how much would you allow yourself to actually like this place, if it at least made a decent appeal to resemble Ebbets Field in a way.

Thanks again for your honesty, your time.

[Elvis]

I'm assuming it will pretty much resemble the already released drawings, except that the Olympic Stadium add-on obviously won't be done. I like the idea of the extended-canopy roof (seen on the third-base and RF stands) that I'm assuming is an ode to the older ballparks with longer roofs than modern ballparks. I wonder if the grandstands will come around in left field all the way to center, and if the RF wall and scoreboard will be like Ebbets Field too, or if they're just going to mimic the exterior design and have a completely different interior design. I'm looking forward to the release of the "final" concept.

[strummer]

NO! A THOUSAND TIMES, NO!! This will never be the same as Ebbets Field, but only those of us who were there will know that, and there are fewer and fewer of us each year. This is a great attempt to keep the image and legend of Ebbets Field and the Brooklyn Dodgers alive and "touchable" for all those baseball fans who never saw the real thing, and the many who come afterward.

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by strummer

NO! A THOUSAND TIMES, NO!! This will never be the same as Ebbets Field, but only those of us who were there will know that, and there are fewer and fewer of us each year. This is a great attempt to keep the image and legend of Ebbets Field and the Brooklyn Dodgers alive and "touchable" for all those baseball fans who never saw the real thing, and the many who come afterward.

I'm curious, are you replying to a specific forumer who's posted here? Are you saying that Ebbets Field will never be replaced? I'd definitely believe you if that's the point you're making.

Are you saying that making a stadium--if built--look somewhat like Ebbets Field, that would be a good or bad idea?

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Mattingly

I'm curious, are you replying to a specific forumer who's posted here? Are you saying that Ebbets Field will never be replaced? I'd definitely believe you if that's the point you're making.

Are you saying that making a stadium--if built--look somewhat like Ebbets Field, that would be a good or bad idea?

I believe it's in response to Yankees rule's question:

"""Do you really think that this new ballpark will have the same athmosphere as Ebbets Field?"""

[strummer]

OK Let me clarify. I do not believe that whatever is built will in any way replace the Ebbets Field of our memories, at least for those of us who were there. You cannot replace with something new, that is not an exact replic, the pictures imbedded in our minds of what we saw 50 years ago. That being said, I feel it is a good idea to try to do something similar to Ebbets Field (and to say so) because that continues the story and allows those who have never experienced the thrill of seeing a game in Ebbets Field to come that much closer to the experience. It also will continue the stories of the Brooklyn Dodgers and Ebbets Field as those attending games played in the new structure are reminded each time they go there that this structure was built with the image of Ebbets Field in mind, and that's the place where those bums, the Brooklyn Dodgers, played many years ago.

[jaykay]

As several of you have stated or implied, it was the "atmosphere" that made Ebbets Field unique - and that can never be recovered, even if a franchise rebuilt Ebbets Field, adding 10,000 seats, using state-of-the-art materials, installing a team called the Dodgers (LA or expansion, your choice), and setting the whole thing down gently in.....Brooklyn. You would have a semblance of surface appeal, and little or nothing else. You would not have MacPhail, Durocher, Red Barber, Rickey, Reese, Robinson.....I could go on and on.....You would not have Brooklyn of the 1940s and 1950s, which was also special in its way - not only for the ballclub that won consistently, but for the neighborhoods in which we (the complainers, the agonizers) were young and coming of age, places that perhaps we now pine for more each day, as those days dwindle down to a precious few. When we talk about "Ebbets Field" we mean a way of life that seemed to have been good for most of us, with the Dodgers contributing prominently. The ballpark itself was kind of makeshift and claptrap from the earliest time we knew it. The teams of the 1920s and 1930s were generally woeful, and you did not hear those who were adult during that time yearning for the Dodgers of old, or for Brooklyn of old. We were just the right age to know Brooklyn at its best, and the Dodgers at their best.
So, by my reckoning, you can make a ballpark that looks like the old one, you can build it anywhere, you can even call it Ebbets Field - but it misses by a mile. What's missing? Brooklyn - let's say 1938-1957 - and the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Originally Posted by jaykay

As several of you have stated or implied, it was the "atmosphere" that made Ebbets Field unique - and that can never be recovered, even if a franchise rebuilt Ebbets Field, adding 10,000 seats, using state-of-the-art materials, installing a team called the Dodgers (LA or expansion, your choice), and setting the whole thing down gently in.....Brooklyn. You would have a semblance of surface appeal, and little or nothing else. You would not have MacPhail, Durocher, Red Barber, Rickey, Reese, Robinson.....I could go on and on.....You would not have Brooklyn of the 1940s and 1950s, which was also special in its way - not only for the ballclub that won consistently, but for the neighborhoods in which we (the complainers, the agonizers) were young and coming of age, places that perhaps we now pine for more each day, as those days dwindle down to a precious few. When we talk about "Ebbets Field" we mean a way of life that seemed to have been good for most of us, with the Dodgers contributing prominently. The ballpark itself was kind of makeshift and claptrap from the earliest time we knew it. The teams of the 1920s and 1930s were generally woeful, and you did not hear those who were adult during that time yearning for the Dodgers of old, or for Brooklyn of old. We were just the right age to know Brooklyn at its best, and the Dodgers at their best.
So, by my reckoning, you can make a ballpark that looks like the old one, you can build it anywhere, you can even call it Ebbets Field - but it misses by a mile. What's missing? Brooklyn - let's say 1938-1957 - and the Brooklyn Dodgers.

Even if you would get the Dodgers back from LA, they would not be the same Dodgers anymore.

For the rest of your post: You're absolutely right.

[DODGER DEB]

Originally Posted by yankees rule

Even if you would get the Dodgers back from LA, they would not be the same Dodgers anymore.

For the rest of your post: You're absolutely right.

You are right, yr, WE don't want those dodgers back!

What WE want is OUR NAME "DODGERS", returned to BROOKLYN, where it was born and where it rightfully belongs!

Who knows, stranger things have happened!

c.

[Bluesteve32]

It seems to me that, for whatever reason, a new ballpark design that emulates Ebbets Field is some kind of homage to what existed in Brooklyn before their sudden departure by that carpetbagger O'Malley out my way.

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.

Remember, Ebbets will never return and nothing would ever be the same, but the fact that some fifty years after the Dodger left, someone feels strongly enough abouth what existed as to try to retro that feel. That may be as close as you'll realistically get.

[tonypug]

If Whale Belly had been able to build his ballpark in Brooklyn in the 50's, it wouldn't have looked anything like Ebbets Field. If this new ballpark happens it is being done so new fans can get a little taste of history, there is nothing wrong with that. Wilpon has the money and the means to live out his dream and fantasy, more power to him.It's interesting to note, all the new ballparks of the 60's were built to accomodate large crowds. Now all the ballparks are being built smaller to create an ambience, that was natural to the old origonal ballparks. I guess as the old song goes all of lifes a circle.

[Bluesteve32]

Almost all of that 1960s-70 era's ballparks already have been imploded.

Chavez Ravine, Angel Stadium, Oakland Coliseum, Shea Stadium, Yankee Stadium and Royals Stadium (or whatever they call it nowadays)are the only ones still in use and look at what is in stor for these ballparks:

Yankee Stadium's current configuration was done in the mid-1970s and Georgie wants to have a new ballpark next door.

Oakland is in dire need of a new ballpark now famous for that monstrosity know at Mt Davis in centerfield. Plans are already in for a new A's ballpark which has been discussed in these forums on BF.

Shea Stadium looks like it may find the wrecking ball if the Mets get their psedo-Ebbets Field.

My bet is that 2016 will be the last for Angel Stadium as Arte Moreno will find another metro city to build a new ballpark.

Royals Stadium was unique because it was a baseball only facility built to similar dementions as the original Anaheim Stadium (but with astroturf and the waterfalls) some six years later. I can see Royals Stadium still being used in 2020, if the Royas are still in KC.

Chavez Ravine, despite rumors about McCourt wanting to change it into luxury condominiums, has the best chance of still being used in 2020 (other than KC), but that is not even a sure bet.

[Chef Bill]

My wife and I usually try to catch a Devil Rays game when we are in the Tampa area. Last year I took some pictures of Tropicana Field's entry, which I've read is supposed to recall the Marble Rotunda at Ebbets Field. I've seen some pictures of the Marble Rotunda on this site, and there doesn't seem to be much resemblance to me, but for those who haven't been to the "Trop", here it is...

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Chef Bill

My wife and I usually try to catch a Devil Rays game when we are in the Tampa area. Last year I took some pictures of Tropicana Field's entry, which I've read is supposed to recall the Marble Rotunda at Ebbets Field. I've seen some pictures of the Marble Rotunda on this site, and there doesn't seem to be much resemblance to me, but for those who haven't been to the "Trop", here it is...

I remember reading that the only main inteneded similarity was that it was designed with the same size/dimensions as the rotunda in Ebbets Field.

[Chef Bill]

Originally Posted by Elvis9045

I remember reading that the only main inteneded similarity was that it was designed with the same size/dimensions as the rotunda in Ebbets Field.

From the Tampa Bay Devil Rays official website...
"Ebbets Field was an influence for Tropicana Field in two ways - one by coincidence, the other by design. Tropicana Field's asymmetrical outfield dimensions closely follow those of the Brooklyn Dodgers' old home; a fact that became evident only after those measurements had been determined. Conversely, Tropicana Field's grand, eight-story-high rotunda entrance is designed from the very blueprints used for the rotunda at Ebbets Field, built in 1913."

http://tampabay.devilrays.mlb.com/NA...park/index.jsp

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by tonypug

It's interesting to note, all the new ballparks of the 60's were built to accomodate large crowds. Now all the ballparks are being built smaller to create an ambience, that was natural to the old origonal ballparks. I guess as the old song goes all of lifes a circle.

That's another point I wanted to make but forgot whenever my hands touched the keyboard here.

Ebbets Field held only about 34-35,000 people, which made for its "homey" appearance where people were brought together in a relatively small group, rather than a larger area.

Even if the next version of Shea Stadium had some references to Ebbets Field, be it the Rotunda, or even the antennas (or whatever they're called) that were on top of the walls. Maybe even the Schaefer scoreboard. How would people here feel about a place that held 55,000, rather than 35,000? How much of the original appeal would be lost merely by its size alone? Please note, I'm not saying that Ebbets Field itself *COULD* ever be reproduced. Just asking how much would be lost by its sheer size alone.

[DODGER DEB]

Originally Posted by Mattingly

That's another point I wanted to make but forgot whenever my hands touched the keyboard here.

Ebbets Field held only about 34-35,000 people, which made for its "homey" appearance where people were brought together in a relatively small group, rather than a larger area.

Even if the next version of Shea Stadium had some references to Ebbets Field, be it the Rotunda, or even the antennas (or whatever they're called) that were on top of the walls. Maybe even the Schaefer scoreboard. How would people here feel about a place that held 55,000, rather than 35,000? How much of the original appeal would be lost merely by its size alone? Please note, I'm not saying that Ebbets Field itself *COULD* ever be reproduced. Just asking how much would be lost by its sheer size alone.

If I may insert myself here, Matt!

Point of information: The new METS ballpark will hold only 42,500, which is much closer to OUR Ebbets Field in size than their present Shea Stadium.

c.

[Toy Boat]

Originally Posted by DODGER DEB

If I may insert myself here, Matt!

Point of information: The new METS ballpark will hold only 42,500, which is much closer to OUR Ebbets Field in size than their present Shea Stadium.

c.

I also heard that and was surprised - pleasantly - when I heard it. That would barely make it larger than Fenway. I also heard that the upper deck of the new park is going to be closer to the field than the mezzanine of Shea is now. While I have mixed feelings of trying to replicate Ebbets (which would be even more mixed if I was a Brooklyn Dodgers fans like you guys are), I was very happy to hear about this. The new park is also supposed to have about 1600 standing room fans. My hope is that they keep the exterior similar to Ebbets, but make the interior something that is unique to the Mets.