CRISP officially traded!

[BoofBonser26]

And Bard and Riske.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

[charleston wahoo]

my daughter made us name our freakn dog Coco last year, what the HELL!!!!!

[sschirmer]

Can I possibly express to you guys how much I HATE this freaking trade?!?!

[DoubleX]

I extend my condolences to you, my Cleveland friends. I really don't get this trade from a Cleveland standpoint, especially since it seemed dead in the water after Mota failed the physical. It seemed like Shapiro's better judgment prevailed, but in the end he still made the deal.

All I can say is that Cleveland must really, reallly want Marte, because on the face of this, Boston got the better end of the deal, especially since Riske is a better reliever than Mota. So Cleveland has not only hurt its roster for this year, but given the competition two siginficant upgrades for its major league roster. This is a head scratcher. I suppose if Marte turns into Mike Schmidt or Eddie Mathews, then we'll understand, but only time will tell that.

[SoxSon]

Marte could prove to make this all worthwhile in the end for Cleveland, but I guess I don't understand tinkering too much with a team that looked the way the Indians were looking last season.

[sschirmer]

I agree with you, Heck, from June 1st on, I believe they may have had the best record in the AL.

XX, I do have to disagree with you on one point: If Mota is healthy, I feel he is much better than Riske.

[runningshoes]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

Can I possibly express to you guys how much I HATE this freaking trade?!?!

I can hear Taps playing softly in the Indians thread.

You guys will like this trade in a couple years.

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

I agree with you, Heck, from June 1st on, I believe they may have had the best record in the AL.

XX, I do have to disagree with you on one point: If Mota is healthy, I feel he is much better than Riske.

Since Mota got traded to Florida a year and a half ago, he's been pretty mediocre, and that's why a pitching friendly part as home. His ERA+ for the last year and a half is only 85, well below league average. While Riske on the other hand, has posted ERA+'s for the past three years of 186, 122, 132. Riske has also thrown more innings than Mota during this time. To me, this is no contest, Riske is hand's down better. It's tough to find good bullpen help, you never know what you'll get from a new guy. The Indians should have stuck with Riske since he's proven very productive for them for the past three years.

[sschirmer]

I can't say I disagree with your knowledge of the numbers, as I had looked at that as well. I'm not sure if you guys have ever read the sports guy, but he has a way for measuring offensive players based on how terrified you are of them in clutch situations. To take that from a pitcher's perspective, well, let me just say I was terrified when Riske came into a clutch situation. I'm not sure how to quantify something like that, and it's something that really ticked off a former poster here, by the name of GONE. Sometimes I just have a feeling about certain guys. Riske scared the crap out of me, conversely, I'm very comfortable with Ronnie Belliard up in a clutch situation, I can't explain these things.

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

I can't say I disagree with your knowledge of the numbers, as I had looked at that as well. I'm not sure if you guys have ever read the sports guy, but he has a way for measuring offensive players based on how terrified you are of them in clutch situations. To take that from a pitcher's perspective, well, let me just say I was terrified when Riske came into a clutch situation. I'm not sure how to quantify something like that, and it's something that really ticked off a former poster here, by the name of GONE. Sometimes I just have a feeling about certain guys. Riske scared the crap out of me, conversely, I'm very comfortable with Ronnie Belliard up in a clutch situation, I can't explain these things.

Well if you're terrified of Riske in clutch situations, I don't think you'll be too happy with Mota either. This is a guy that teams want to make a closer, but he has constantly failed to show that he can step up to the plate and be a closer.

[sschirmer]

Wicky is filling that role. I really hope that Mota can fill the bill in the 8th.

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

Wicky is filling that role. I really hope that Mota can fill the bill in the 8th.

That's the thing. He hasn't done a good job of that over the last two seasons either.

[Evangelion]

Marte should be the starting 3B in 2007. Might even get some start at 3B if Boone is really that bad. Marte is a move for the future, but the future will be here soon for Marte. If Marte become the big star everyone predict he will become, then you will look back at this trade and think what? Bad trade still?

Mota and Riske swap was in the Red Sox's advantage.

In turn, the swap for Shoppach and Bard is the Indians' advantage.

Jason Michaels was brought in to replace Crisp. What happen if he just replace Crisp's produce and in turn, also have the power of Marte on your team maybe next year. Still a bad trade? At this point, time will tell. I can't say which side got the better end of the deal until I see what happen.

What Marte will do? What will Coco do in Boston? What if Michaels replaces Crisp's production? A lot of questions that can't be answer. I can't give Boston the edge since Coco is expected to come in and replace Damon and help them right at this moment.

[sschirmer]

I agree, Marte MAY end up being a steal. My only problem is this: Shapiro sold Indians fans on the fact that 2006 was going to be a big year, at least that's the impression I got from reading the paper last year. He almost made it sound like Tribe brass didn't plan on having some of the success they had last year, and that it came a year early. Does anyone else recall this? Now to go and sacrifice the here and now for someone who won't start, realistically, until 2007? I don't get the logic.

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by Evangelion

Marte should be the starting 3B in 2007. Might even get some start at 3B if Boone is really that bad. Marte is a move for the future, but the future will be here soon for Marte. If Marte become the big star everyone predict he will become, then you will look back at this trade and think what? Bad trade still?

Mota and Riske swap was in the Red Sox's advantage.

In turn, the swap for Shoppach and Bard is the Indians' advantage.

Jason Michaels was brought in to replace Crisp. What happen if he just replace Crisp's produce and in turn, also have the power of Marte on your team maybe next year. Still a bad trade? At this point, time will tell. I can't say which side got the better end of the deal until I see what happen.

What Marte will do? What will Coco do in Boston? What if Michaels replaces Crisp's production? A lot of questions that can't be answer. I can't give Boston the edge since Coco is expected to come in and replace Damon and help them right at this moment.

You're dealing with a lot of hypotheticals there. It is very doubtful that Michaels will contribute as well as Crisp. Even if Marte is ready to go by 2007, it will still likely take him a couple of seasons to get going. It's rare that a player is a star right away. By the time Marte hits his stride, it will also be the time that Cleveland will have to make decisions on Hafner, Martinez, Sizemore, Peralta, Belliard, and others. And it's likely that due to financial reasons, the current team will be broken up by the time Marte is ready to step up. I really think the Indians have hurt their chances to compete while the window is open for them, because unlike the Sox and Yankees, that window will probably close in a few seasons and another rebuilding will have to begin.

[Mattingly]

My sincerest condolences to the Indian fans here. So sad for you all to lose a fan favorite.

I'm here to ask a few questions, both about Coco the player, the popular player, and who his replacement would be.

I'm trying to find out how good defensively he was in LF, as well as CF. I'd gone over this a bit in the Red Sox forum with Boof, but never here.

I'm also trying to find out what made him so popular, besides his obvious nickname.

Lastly, who's set to replace him?

[Gjm130]

Finaly, a good center fielder for the SOX
Now, the RedSox have a complete outfield.
Ramirez, Crisp and Nixon!!!

Let's work on the infield, cuz all we got are a bunch of young, overrated latino wanabies....

[sschirmer]

Michaels is in line to be the immediate replacement.
Coco has very good speed, and seems to have worked hard to overcome very ordinary instincts, and an average arm, at best.

I've watched Coco misjudge a fair amount of balls, but he has been able to make up for a lot of mistakes with his speed. He also plays HARD! This is one of the reasons he is so popular, the guy is always hustling, and has a very good attitude. I also hear that he's a good rapper. Being a 36 year old white guy, I'm not the greatest judge of talent in that regard! He's in Left Field, because his arm is suspect. I have no doubt, he'll be a good CF in Boston, as his arm is a bit better than Damon's, though that's not saying much.

We will miss him dearly.

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by Gjm130

Let's work on the infield, cuz all we got are a bunch of young, overrated latino wanabies....

What exactly do you mean by a bunch of "young, overrated latino wanabies"?

[Jestre]

Originally Posted by Gjm130

Finaly, a good center fielder for the SOX
Now, the RedSox have a complete outfield.
Ramirez, Crisp and Nixon!!!

Let's work on the infield, cuz all we got are a bunch of young, overrated latino wanabies....

Right now you have Youkilis at first, Loretta at second, Mike Lowell at third and probably Alex Gonzalez at short. Graffanino, JT Snow, Alex Cora and maybe Dustin Pedroia backing up. Who do you consider Latino wanabies amongst that group????

[sschirmer]

JT Snow, now there's a real Latino for you!

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by Gjm130

Finaly, a good center fielder for the SOX
Now, the RedSox have a complete outfield.
Ramirez, Crisp and Nixon!!!

Let's work on the infield, cuz all we got are a bunch of young, overrated latino wanabies....

I'm confused...The Red Sox infield is not predominantly young or latino.

- Kevin Youkilis is 27 and from Cincinnati, Ohio
- JT Snow is 38 and from Long Beacn, California
- Mark Loretta is 34 and from Santa Monica, California
- Alex Gonzalez (if he signs) is 29 and from Cagua, Venezuela
- Alex Cora is 30 and from Caguas, Puerto Rico
- Tony Graffanino is 34 and from Amityville, New York
- Mike Lowell is 32 and from San Juan, Puerto Rico
- Dustin Pedroia is 22 and from Woodland, California.

Of these 7 players, only 3 are hispanic and none of them are what I would consider particularly young for baseball.

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

JT Snow, now there's a real Latino for you!

His first name's José, Jorge or Julio, isn't it?

It's actually Jack Thomas Snow.

[Gjm130]

Guess I'm wrong guys...
Sorry....

Mike Lowell's from San Juan???
I didn't think so....

[Mattingly]

Originally Posted by Gjm130

Guess I'm wrong guys...
Sorry....

Mike Lowell's from San Juan???
I didn't think so....

I don't mind too much. It just seemed that someone could've interpreted it as a crazy statement mixed with ethnicity, so lots of weird posts could've resulted, but thankfully didn't.