What are the top Training Aids?

[tominct]

There are tons of products out there, and there has been some discussion about a few of them on different threads, so why not strat an entirely new thread?

OK, I guess a Tee is ideal. What about a Swing-A-Way? A Hands-Back Tee?

Wheeled Pitching machines v. Iron Mike arm machines?

Comments?

[tadlock11]

Great idea for a thread - I'm sure we will hear pro and cons of all different kinds of training aids. I believe some are useful and others are a means for their creators to make a buck or two.
I have had success with the Hands Back Hitter - used as a station at practice to achieve certain goals.
Of course a hitting tee is ideal. There are plastic balls similar to wiffle balls, called "pickle balls" that last way longer than your average plastic type balls. The absolute best training aid - a good instructor!

[hiddengem]

A good friend and collegue of mine showed me this product, and I'm interested in it. I often have the hardest time getting kids to "keep the box" throughout the load and rotation. They always want to "bar" the lead arm, which creates drag through the zone. This might be something the kids can wear to get the feeling of keeping the lead arm bent. I believe Jbooth has purchased this to see how it is. Here is the link to the product and a picture of the box, in case anybody doesn't know what it is.

http://www.baseballexp.com/baseball/...ductDesc=12609

[Jake Patterson]

Originally Posted by hiddengem

A good friend and collegue of mine showed me this product, and I'm interested in it. I often have the hardest time getting kids to "keep the box" throughout the load and rotation. They always want to "bar" the lead arm, which creates drag through the zone. This might be something the kids can wear to get the feeling of keeping the lead arm bent. I believe Jbooth has purchased this to see how it is. Here is the link to the product and a picture of the box, in case anybody doesn't know what it is.

I saw a hitter in the cages last year with a devise that looks similar. It was a velcro wrap around the upper arm with surgical tube connected to what looked like a batting glove. After watching him use it for a while I could not figure out its purpose and lost interest.

[tominct]

Originally Posted by hiddengem

A good friend and collegue of mine showed me this product, and I'm interested in it. I often have the hardest time getting kids to "keep the box" throughout the load and rotation. They always want to "bar" the lead arm, which creates drag through the zone. This might be something the kids can wear to get the feeling of keeping the lead arm bent. I believe Jbooth has purchased this to see how it is. Here is the link to the product and a picture of the box, in case anybody doesn't know what it is.

http://www.baseballexp.com/baseball/...ductDesc=12609

Ok, I think the idea of maintaining the box is important and for many young kids difficult to do, is this the ony device that can do that? How ould one invent such a device?

[tadlock11]

How about using PVC pipe to make the "box", strap it to the forearm at the wrist and just under the elbow? Was also thinking about some kind of break-away cord that would connect the back shoulder to the bat just above the hands that could be the seperation indicator. Am I out on a limb with this or is this what we are trying to achieve?

[Jake Patterson]

Originally Posted by tominct

Wheeled Pitching machines v. Iron Mike arm machines?Comments?

We have a wheel machine that I use for outfield practice. I found this to be much more efficient than me trying to hit fly balls to a spot. I set the machine up and move the player's starting position to simulate different fielding skills, i.e. moving left, right, in, out, etc... It's amazing how many more reps we can get in. I also use old baseballs not the plastic balls that come with the machine. As far as the height the machine can throw. The first time I used it I set both wheels at max and ... thoomp! I don't think the ball has come down yet...

[hiddengem]

Originally Posted by tadlock11

How about using PVC pipe to make the "box", strap it to the forearm at the wrist and just under the elbow? Was also thinking about some kind of break-away cord that would connect the back shoulder to the bat just above the hands that could be the seperation indicator. Am I out on a limb with this or is this what we are trying to achieve?

I think Jbooth made something with wood, where he put 2 pieces of wood together at a 90degree angle that was strapped on top of the forearm and up the bicep.

Jim, am I correct with this?

[Ursa Major]

I think Jbooth made something with wood, where he put 2 pieces of wood together at a 90degree angle that was strapped on top of the forearm and up the bicep.

I saw it at Jim's facility, and it's exactly as you described. We didn't use it though, as we concentrated on my son's lower half.

I think "arm barring" is overrated as a hitting flaw. Certainly, many major leaguers rotate with their front arm almost straight. (HG, remember your hitting clip of you "walking away from your hands"?) Indeed, you need to do that on outside pitches, and it increases the initial circumference of your hands' arc, thereby increasing the batspeed generation as you tighten up the arc. Griffey and Chipper are prominent straight arm hitters; here's Frank Thomas doing it too:


My sense is that the problem isn't so much barring as such, but bad posture. Kids are too erect and too far back on their heels, so the only way that can get to outside pitches is to thrust their arms out straight. That's where the problem should be addressed.

As far as keeping kids arms' "connected" to maximize the impact of their rotation, I think one device that someone should invent is something I pulled together after chatting with Jim Booth, that looks like this:

The idea is that both the elasticized wrist strap and upper bicep strap have Velcro-type strips. During drills, the batter takes his stance with his wrist stuck to the point of his back shoulder. He'll feel the tension holding his hands there as he rotates, reminding him to keep the arm there until the centrifugal force helps to rip the wrist (and hands, and bat) free from the shoulder.

[hiddengem]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

I saw it at Jim's facility, and it's exactly as you described. We didn't use it though, as we concentrated on my son's lower half.

I think "arm barring" is overrated as a hitting flaw. Certainly, many major leaguers rotate with their front arm almost straight. (HG, remember your hitting clip of you "walking away from your hands"?) Indeed, you need to do that on outside pitches, and it increases the initial circumference of your hands' arc, thereby increasing the batspeed generation as you tighten up the arc. Griffey and Chipper are prominent straight arm hitters; here's Frank Thomas doing it too:


My sense is that the problem isn't so much barring as such, but bad posture. Kids are too erect and too far back on their heels, so the only way that can get to outside pitches is to thrust their arms out straight. That's where the problem should be addressed.

As far as keeping kids arms' "connected" to maximize the impact of their rotation, I think one device that someone should invent is something I pulled together after chatting with Jim Booth, that looks like this:

The idea is that both the elasticized wrist strap and upper bicep strap have Velcro-type strips. During drills, the batter takes his stance with his wrist stuck to the point of his back shoulder. He'll feel the tension holding his hands there as he rotates, reminding him to keep the arm there until the centrifugal force helps to rip the wrist (and hands, and bat) free from the shoulder.

So, you don't feel staying in the box is that important?

[jbooth]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

I think "arm barring" is overrated as a hitting flaw. Certainly, many major leaguers rotate with their front arm almost straight. (HG, remember your hitting clip of you "walking away from your hands"?) Indeed, you need to do that on outside pitches, and it increases the initial circumference of your hands' arc, thereby increasing the batspeed generation as you tighten up the arc. Griffey and Chipper are prominent straight arm hitters; here's Frank .

Have to disagree with you. There's a difference between swinging with a relatively straight arm from start to finish, versus extending or "barring" the elbow" as a flaw in an intended "box" swing.

Breaking the box is a major problem. Swinging with a relatively straight arm can be done by some people, but it isn't a recommended method. HG is having problems trying to swing with straight arms, he needs to use the box.

If you use the straight arm technique, you need to make other adjustments to insure that the hands stay close to the body and you somehow have to get them around and in front quickly to get an inside pitch, and turning the box is quicker than trying to accelerate the handle with straight arms.

[MSandman]

Hi Erik,

Can you please explain the rationale for this? I was thinking it might help promote a more inside/out swing path if the hitter hit w/ the curve in towards him? As it is now, wouldn't it allow more casting (early pushing of the bat away from the body)?

Thanks,
Sandman

[Erik]

Originally Posted by MSandman

Hi Erik,

Can you please explain the rationale for this? I was thinking it might help promote a more inside/out swing path if the hitter hit w/ the curve in towards him? As it is now, wouldn't it allow more casting (early pushing of the bat away from the body)?

Thanks,
Sandman

MSandman,
I have included this drill in the new instructions with the IS5000 model. I had to improve the design to allow for this application. I agree that this will be more useful in developing an inside/outside swing path. This new unit will help promote this now.

Erik,

[MSandman]

Originally Posted by Erik

MSandman,
I have included this drill in the new instructions with the IS5000 model. I had to improve the design to allow for this application. I agree that this will be more useful in developing an inside/outside swing path. This new unit will help promote this now.

Erik,

Thanks for the info Erik. So is there any recommendation to ever swing w/ the curve away from you? I'd love to see a video clip of someone swinging w/ the curve towards them.

[Erik]

Originally Posted by MSandman

Thanks for the info Erik. So is there any recommendation to ever swing w/ the curve away from you? I'd love to see a video clip of someone swinging w/ the curve towards them.

I would say that most peoplw will use this device with the U-Bar facing away. I have added this drill to correct the casting problem. I would think that coaches and instructors that are aware of the value to this drill will enforce it. I wouldn't be surprised if parents and players are more inclined to just use the device without really applying this important casting drill. I personaly feel this drill is important, this is why I incorporated it to the new instructions. I will try to get a clip of this drill and send this to you. I need your email address.

Erik,

[Ohfor]

Originally Posted by Erik

.. this is why I incorporated it to the new instructions...

Cut the bs. You changed the thing because no high level swing could fit through it.

Embarassing when your poster boys swing couldn't even fit through it.

[Erik]

Originally Posted by Ohfor

Cut the bs. You changed the thing because no high level swing could fit through it.

Embarassing when your poster boys swing couldn't even fit through it.

Ohfor,
I understand that your role on the bench was simple as a player.

[Ohfor]

I was wondering how long it would take for your real personality to emerge.

People, would you like to see the private emails he sends out.

Of course, here he's trying to schmooze everyone. Trying to make it look like he's a good guy with a good product.

Well, the real answer is he invested a ton of money in the contraption, paid Ken Griffey a nice chunk (Griffey must be laughing) and ended up with something that no high level swing could fit through.

So, he retools and starts talking the virtues of being able to swing "all" the different ways.....

Some things are just hilarious.

And, I apologize for being this hard on him.......but he's earned it. The emails are quite telling who this guy really is.

[Erik]

Originally Posted by Ohfor

I was wondering how long it would take for your real personality to emerge.

People, would you like to see the private emails he sends out.

Of course, here he's trying to schmooze everyone. Trying to make it look like he's a good guy with a good product.

Well, the real answer is he invested a ton of money in the contraption, paid Ken Griffey a nice chunk (Griffey must be laughing) and ended up with something that no high level swing could fit through.

So, he retools and starts talking the virtues of being able to swing "all" the different ways.....

Some things are just hilarious.

And, I apologize for being this hard on him.......but he's earned it. The emails are quite telling who this guy really is.

I never invested a ton of money in this product. I never paid Ken Griffey Jr A dime. I licence this product to a company and how much they paid Ken Griffey Jr is a mystery to me. I have recieved a number of emails from this individual and the only way to deal with him is at his level. This individual is a very troubled person. I'm not try to schmooze anyone.

[hiddengem]

Originally Posted by Jake Patterson

I saw a hitter in the cages last year with a devise that looks similar. It was a velcro wrap around the upper arm with surgical tube connected to what looked like a batting glove. After watching him use it for a while I could not figure out its purpose and lost interest.

Do you now understand its purpose?

[Ursa Major]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major
I think "arm barring" is overrated as a hitting flaw. Certainly, many major leaguers rotate with their front arm almost straight. (HG, remember your hitting clip of you "walking away from your hands"?) Indeed, you need to do that on outside pitches, and it increases the initial circumference of your hands' arc, thereby increasing the batspeed generation as you tighten up the arc. Griffey and Chipper are prominent straight arm hitters; here's Frank .

Hidden Gem replied: So, you don't feel staying in the box is that important?

I think clips of many MLB hitters show that the angle of the elbow can be at greater than 90 degrees and still produce an effective "box" and, hence, swing if they don't lose their "connection". Whatever that angle is, you can't reduce it during the swing.

JBooth replied: Have to disagree with you. There's a difference between swinging with a relatively straight arm from start to finish, versus extending or "barring" the elbow" as a flaw in an intended "box" swing.

Breaking the box is a major problem. Swinging with a relatively straight arm can be done by some people, but it isn't a recommended method. HG is having problems trying to swing with straight arms, he needs to use the box.

If you use the straight arm technique, you need to make other adjustments to insure that the hands stay close to the body and you somehow have to get them around and in front quickly to get an inside pitch, and turning the box is quicker than trying to accelerate the handle with straight arms.

Our differences may substantially be semantic. I agree that the way you define "barring" is bad. Maybe I'm using "barring" to mean something different from what you mean.

Now, if you're talking about a straight arm swing, I don't see how "turning the box is quicker than trying to accelerate the handle with straight arms." If you have a good connection, the hands will get around at the same speed with a straight arm or a bent one. The problem, as you mention, is that you're going to have trouble with an inside pitch, either getting jammed or fouling it down the third base line more often than with a true, bent-elbow "box". Or, you can start bent, and, as you detect the pitch to be more outside, walk away from your hands (i.e. letting your elbow straighten as you take your stride), and then rotate. Is that what you mean by "barring"?

I was going to chide you about your critique of HG's swings and ask you how many of HG's swings you have seen to so as to be able to make that assessment about him. But, I've seen four clips where he got hits against live pitching and it seems that you're right about his tendency, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "he's having trouble."

[jbooth]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

I think clips of many MLB hitters show that the angle of the elbow can be at greater than 90 degrees and still produce an effective "box" and, hence, swing if they don't lose their "connection". Whatever that angle is, you can't reduce it during the swing.

Our differences may substantially be semantic. I agree that the way you define "barring" is bad. Maybe I'm using "barring" to mean something different from what you mean.

Now, if you're talking about a straight arm swing, I don't see how "turning the box is quicker than trying to accelerate the handle with straight arms." If you have a good connection, the hands will get around at the same speed with a straight arm or a bent one. The problem, as you mention, is that you're going to have trouble with an inside pitch, either getting jammed or fouling it down the third base line more often than with a true, bent-elbow "box". Or, you can start bent, and, as you detect the pitch to be more outside, walk away from your hands (i.e. letting your elbow straighten as you take your stride), and then rotate. Is that what you mean by "barring"?

I was going to chide you about your critique of HG's swings and ask you how many of HG's swings you have seen to so as to be able to make that assessment about him. But, I've seen four clips where he got hits against live pitching and it seems that you're right about his tendency, but I wouldn't go so far as to say "he's having trouble."

I think we're pretty much on the same page.

A 90 degree box turns quicker because the radius from handle to body is shorter, and the angular momentum applied to the bathead is greater so the bathead accelerates at a higher rate.

You can turn any shaped box that you wish, it's the disconnection that is the big problem, but turning a small box is best.

HG knows what I mean, I spoke with him on the phone and have exchanged PM's.

[Jake Patterson]

Originally Posted by hiddengem

Do you now understand its purpose?

I do now... Not sure I would be able to effectively teach with it. I would have to go to someone who has experience teaching with it first.

[tadlock11]

Here's some more feedback about the HBH: http://www.tipsfromthecoach.com/boar...opic.php?t=198

Also, what about some home made contraptions? I was given advice by a high school coach about using a 4x4 and making a balance beam to help young hitters keep their balance.

[jbooth]

Originally Posted by hiddengem

A good friend and collegue of mine showed me this product, and I'm interested in it. I often have the hardest time getting kids to "keep the box" throughout the load and rotation. They always want to "bar" the lead arm, which creates drag through the zone. This might be something the kids can wear to get the feeling of keeping the lead arm bent. I believe Jbooth has purchased this to see how it is. Here is the link to the product and a picture of the box, in case anybody doesn't know what it is.

http://www.baseballexp.com/baseball/...ductDesc=12609

I received my "Power Punch" yesterday. I highly recommend it. I used it and it really helped my swing. I tried it on 6 of my students aged 12 and under, and they LIKED it. They said it helped them understand what I was trying to convey and they could feel it.

Now the BAD news. They didn't tell me that they come in 4 sizes and they sent me a "small."

Now the REALLY bad news; it comes with a DVD that shows you how to use it and the guy teaching swing mechanics tells you to swing the bathead in a straight line from the bathead's starting position, to the ball. YOWW! NO wonder he only made it to the minor level of pro ball. He emphasizes not letting the bat ever get horizontal, or paralell to the ground. Geez.