Never Teach your Catchers to Frame Pitches!!

[Catchingcoach]

People are surprised to see an article written by a catching coach with this title. I am actually not opposed to framing when done correctly. I avoid using the term when instructing my students due to the misinformation out there about what it actually is.

I advocate using techniques that keep strikes looking like strikes. I see so many students come for instruction with the idea that “Framing” is a technique that will fool an umpire into thinking a pitch that is a ball is really a strike. I ask all new students what they believe framing does, and that is almost always their answer, regardless of the age of the catcher.
This technique is widely used and I believe actually contribute to close strikes being called as balls.

I will explain my position on “Framing” by explaining the 4 Laws of Good Receiving that I teach all my students.

I explain to my students that they need to go behind the plate with these 4 laws firmly imbedded in their technique to be the best receivers they can be.

Law #1 “The Catcher Must View Each Pitch Through the Umpire’s Eyes”

For a catcher to excel behind the plate he must view each pitch as the umpire sees it. I teach my students to have a 2nd view on the game in their minds eye. The first is of course the view of the whole field. The 2nd is the view that the umpire sees when he looks down toward home plate to make the call. He sees the back of the catcher as well as the ball, plate, and batter.

When a catcher develops this view of the game, he will realize how much he can affect the “look” the umpire gets at the pitch as it crosses the plate. He will understand how he can make a tight, good strike look like a pitch that is off the plate and not worthy of being called a strike.

A catcher needs to learn that there is a short period of time that while the umpire is tracking the ball with his eyes that the catcher is out of his direct line of sight. This occurs when the umpires has his eyes focused on the ball leaving the pitchers hands and continues tracking it until just in front of the plate. For that brief moment the catcher is below the umpire’s direct line of sight. It is during this short time that the catcher needs to get properly positioned to receive the pitch.


Law #2 “ It’s a Catcher’s Job to Keep Strikes Looking like Strikes”
This is where my teaching tends to go against the flow a little. I do not want to see my catchers catching a pitch that clearly is a ball and pulling, pushing, or somehow moving the glove to try and reposition the pitch at a spot they feel will get them a strike call. I don’t want them trying to “Make a ball look like a strike”. The best way to keep a strike looking like a strike is to never do anything that would make it look like a ball. The next 2 Laws discuss ways to accomplish that.


Law# 3 “Beat the Ball to The Spot”

My goal for my catchers is that their movements behind the plate when they receive are smooth, “quiet”, quick but not hurried.
They set the target with their glove in the middle of their body. The goal is to have adjusted their position so that their glove is in position to catch the ball before the ball gets there. They want their glove to “Beat the Ball to the Spot.”
This is accomplished as follows.
• Their feet are turned up the lines.
• Their heels are in contact with the ground as well as the balls of their feet.

This makes it easy for them to receive any pitch that catches even the edge of the plate by shifting their weight that direction. They still keep the glove in the middle of their body. They can avoid “reaching” for pitches using this technique. When shifting their weight toward the ball they are able to keep their shoulders level at all times. The look they present to the umpire is one of control, and one that says that this pitch is being caught on the catcher’s midline, it must be a strike.

Often times a catcher doesn’t shift his weight and reaches for the ball on the outside of the plate, even though it may be a close strike, by reaching at the last minute the message sent is that this pitch is not where the catcher wanted it and you may lose the strike call. Have the catcher get the glove to the contact point ahead of the ball. If a catchers glove shoots out and meets a fastball while both objects are moving the ball will usually win the battle and pull the glove off the plate.

This technique is done in addition to proper handling of the glove to assure that all parts of the glove are in the strike zone when the ball is caught.
Imagine a catcher catches a ball on the inside edge to a right-hander, and has his thumb in the 6-o'clock position when the ball hits it. To make that catch he will have to allow his left elbow to go to the left to get the glove in position. His elbow will now be nearly a foot left of the edge of the strike zone. Also, over half of the glove will be to the left of the strike zone. So even if the ball is cleanly a strike, all kinds of signals are being sent that this pitch is too far inside.

If the catcher makes a few subtle changes he will ensure that he isn’t doing anything to make this strike look like a ball.

First he sets up with his thumb set at 3-o'clock. This positions his elbow to bend down, not out to the left. He shifts his weight to the left, and positions his glove to catch the left half of the ball. His hand rotates slightly so his thumb is between 12 and 1 o'clock. The ball flies past the front edge of the glove and is caught in the back half of the pocket. The back edge of the glove is vertical, so no part of the glove is out of the strike zone. Since the elbow bent down, no part of the left arm is out of the strike zone. We have caught a close strike and did nothing to make it look like a ball.

Law#4 “The Glove Never Moves After the Ball Hits It”

One of the main techniques that many players think is part of good receiving is moving the glove after the ball hits it to a spot that will more likely get them the strike call. I have always felt that most of the technique is insulting to the umpire. He can hear the ball hit the glove, so what’s the point to drag or pull the ball somewhere it wasn’t. I teach that if the technique I have described above is employed then you will maximize your strike calls and build a better relationship with the umpire by not trying to move a pitch after it hits the glove.


In Conclusion: I don’t teach framing. I teach good sound receiving. Just be concerned with keeping strikes looking like strikes and you will succeed as a catcher.

[Ursa Major]

Some good tips in there, Coach. Of course, a lot depends upon the caliber of ball and umpiring you're dealing with. In youth ball, I think it's correct that catchers lose more strikes by taking the ball out of the strike xone than they gain by framing. And, with good umpiring at any level, you just insult the umpire by trying to frame every pitch. I think the additional advantage of holding the glove still for a moment (but not so long that it looks like you're dissing the ump) is that it gives the umpire a chance to process the pitch, particularly if it's had some movement on it and he's trying to assess if it passed through the strike zone during its path. Nice contribution.

[Jake Patterson]

Hey coach,
Some pretty good stuff here. Would not mind handing this out at our Little League Coaches' Clinic, under your name of course. We're always weak in the catching area. If interested let me know and we can get in a format that would insure you get the right recognition and citations. Like I said when we talked, you're not that far from us you may develop several new customers.

[tominct]

Originally Posted by Jake Patterson

Hey coach,
Some pretty good stuff here. Would not mind handing this out at our Little League Coaches' Clinic, under your name of course. We're always weak in the catching area. If interested let me know and we can get in a format that would insure you get the right recognition and citations. Like I said when we talked, you're not that far from us you may develop several new customers.

Jake, do you have an email address? I wouldn't mind contacting you about how you go about conductioing your League's Clinics. Tha's part of my charge where I am as well and I could use the insight.

Thanks,
Tom

[Jake Patterson]

Originally Posted by tominct

Jake, do you have an email address? I wouldn't mind contacting you about how you go about conductioing your League's Clinics. Tha's part of my charge where I am as well and I could use the insight.

Thanks,
Tom

pattersonsports@yahoo.com we have one coming up on March 18th

[Bluesteve32]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

Some good tips in there, Coach. Of course, a lot depends upon the caliber of ball and umpiring you're dealing with. In youth ball, I think it's correct that catchers lose more strikes by taking the ball out of the strike xone than they gain by framing. And, with good umpiring at any level, you just insult the umpire by trying to frame every pitch. I think the additional advantage of holding the glove still for a moment (but not so long that it looks like you're dissing the ump) is that it gives the umpire a chance to process the pitch, particularly if it's had some movement on it and he's trying to assess if it passed through the strike zone during its path. Nice contribution.

The bold words are so true. The first thing I tell catchers before the first pitch is "make sure nothing hits my 'precious' body" and "don't do any of that 'little league' (excrement) by pulling the ball into the zone; keep the ball between your shinguards, and you'll get those pitches."

At the Pony/Colt/Sr League/Jr League level, some catchers were told by their coaches to do that exact thing. I tell them they (those coaches) were wrong and when they do pull the ball in, they are telling me that they even think the ball was high or away themselves.

Lastly, tell the catchers not to hold the ball in the spot after the pitch was called a ball. That is really showing up the umpire.

*****WAR STORY ALERT****

I was working a Colt Regional Tournament several years ago and in the top of the seventh inning, I emphatically called a ball on a close pitch and the catcher held the ball in place for three or four seconds, complaining loudly (but not turning back) about that pitch. I told him, "You better throw that ball back to the pitcher and never show up me or any other umpire like that again!"

As fate would have it, in the bottom of the seventh inning and his team down by a run, with two outs and a runner on second, the catcher was now the hitter. Do you think he was going to get the call on any close pitches? We are humans, and he struck out looking. I did not take the bat out of his hands, but those close pitches definately went to the pitcher.

******End of War Story******

A few of other tips:

1. Don't ask the umpire before the game what is his zone. That should be determined after a few "borderline" pitches.

2. Unless you are at the lower levels, don't expect that pitch across the letters to be called a strike. Below the hands is normal and don't be surprised if you have guys call the belt and below.

3. Don't ask the catcher from the dugout, "Where was that pitch Johnny?" That puts the catcher in the position of showing up the umpire. A smart catcher will say something like "outside" aloud but would tell you in the dugout he thought it was a strike.

4. Don't ask the umpire more than once or twice, "Where was that pitch. Blue?" It is better to ask between innings, when getting a bat or walking to the coaches box, "Where did that pitch miss?" That keeps it professional and discreet. Do not dial the umpires long distance, you may get a deactivation fee *****WAR STORY ALERT**** I did use that line once in a Pony League game, it is still legendary at that park.******End of War Story******

5. If you feel the umpire ought to ask for help on a check swing that he called a ball. Do it right away and not after any play. A heads up umpire will come out right away, especially if there are two strikes and the ball gets by the catcher. If you ask after the play, 95% chance the base guy will stay with the call. Remember, if a pitch is called a strike, he cannot appeal to his partner for a check swing.

6. Never, I mean never ask either or any of the umpire to overrule another umpire. This is not allowed, by rule anyway. If you do have a question, make sure time is called, go to the umpire who actually made the call, you may convince him to ask for help, if it involves a rule interpretation, the crew will get together, and then stay with the call or reverse the call as a crew. If the call does not involve judgement, this is the time to make any protest if you feel the crew has erred in its interpretation of the rule. This must be done before the next pitch.

7. Any umpire may call a balk.

8. The plate umpire, in a two man system, would normally make any interference call at second on the front end of a double play.

9. Unless playing NFHS (high school) rules, balk are not immediate dead balls. If runner(s) reach at least one base and the batter reacher first, the play (and any outs) stand and the balk is ignored. If a pitcher balks on a wild throw, if the ruuner(s) reach the next base, the balk would be ignored as well. Tell your kids to play like nothing was called and the play will be sorted out after everything is over.

10. Catcher's interference (catcher's obstruction in NFHS rules); is similar to the balk in that if the runner reaches first and the other runners reach at least one base, it is ignored; otherwise batter is awarded first and any runners advancing on the play would be allowed to advance. However, this is one play the offensive team may elect to take the result of the play (like scoring a run) rather than having to take the award. The coach, captain, or manager must notify the umpires before the next pitch, or the penalty will be enforced. Balks, catcher's interferences, some interferences and obstructions are called delayed dead balls. Think of this like in football when the offended team may accept or decline a penalty.

11. Fielder's cannot interfere, they obstruct. With the exception of the catcher interfering with a hitter, fielders commit "obstruction" while runners, hitters, coaches, and even fans and umpires commit "interference." Don't argue that you want interference for your runner, you may get your way...interferences by the offense are always outs, maybe two.

12. Don't charge onto the field disputing any call. Wait until the dust settles, aks for "time", and walk out to the umpire(s). Head coach (HS and college) or manager only should talk. Do not double team any umpire, try to get away from the crowd by going on the infield grass. Try to discuss calmly, you may be able to get a good explaination and/or have him ask for help, at least.

13. When discussing anything with umpires do not use "You," You're," or "Your." Also, never question the integrity of the umpire or suggesting that he is taking money from the other team. That will lead you to an early exit from the premisis. If you are ejected, be out of sight and in no contact with the team. *****WAR STORY ALERT**** A couple of years ago at a Pony League game, a manager was ejected. He went around the fence by the street sidewalk and was conferring with the remianing coaches and some players. We stopped the game, told the acting manager that the ejected manager was to leave the area and you are to have no contact or the game would be terminated. This team got a four run lead in the top of the fifth inning and we were approaching time limit so all they ahd to do was hold on to the lead. In the middle of the inning, my partner told me the ejected manager was signaling the other coaches from across the street. Game terminated at that point. Forfeit 7-0 in favor of the home team. BTW, it was my only ejection of the year.******End of War Story******

12. Understand that Little League (which includes Jr League, Sr League and Big League) NCAA (college), NFHS (high school), OBR (Official Baseball Rules, AKA "pro") all are different in some interpretations. Many youth leagues use OBR such as Babe Ruth, Pony, USABA, CABA with organizational modifications appropriate for the age level. Know the rules specific for your team's level and league. Local and park rules may also have differences. Those are the four different rule codes that exist in baseball.

13. Most youth organizations do not permit the intentional crashing into any fielder like Pete Rose's did to Ray Fosse in the 1972 All-Star game. "Malicious contact" is interference and an ejection and all runner return to their base at the time of interefence. No league has a "Must slide rule!" However, if the runner fails to slide, and the contact is not deemed malicious (you know the difference), such action may result in a simple interference call. It would be sorted at the conclusion of the play. If a runner gives himself up, no interference nor a slide be necessary. Don't say "He must slide." A "must slide" rule is problematic and may cause unnecessary injuries.

14. Force Play slide rules. Not all leagues have this; NCAA and NFHS rules do have a specific FPS rule, normally associated with the front end of double plays, especially at second base. Some local rules may put one in, but OBR does not have one, but that does not mean a runner can interfere with a possible following play. In OBR, a runer must be able to reach a base with a hand or foot. Know what your league's rule is.

15. At home plate meeting, the umpires may do several different leagues and rules, remind him of your league and park rules, especially if it is an unusual local rule. Remember, many umpires work several levels of ball and sometimes must be reminded that your league does or does not use X,Y or Z.

I hope some of these tips can help. Be happy to answer any questions.

[Ursa Major]

Oops: double post.

[Ursa Major]

Terrific post there, and the tenor of what you said should answer a lot of further questions for coaches too.

Never, I mean never ask either or any of the umpire to overrule another umpire. This is not allowed, by rule anyway.

This is one of the biggest mistakes made by youth coaches, particularly in our league where young (12 year old) players will ump the bases for Coach-pitch games. Coaches storm out to the more senior "crew chief" umpire demanding that he correct a junior ump's mistake. Or they'll ask an ump to get some help even though the ump was right on the play, but just saw it differently from the coach. It takes guts for these kids to say, "Sorry, Coach. I saw it all the way, and that's the way I call it."

When discussing anything with umpires do not use "You," You're," or "Your."

I got my son laughing when I asked him a while back what the one word is you can never use with an umpire. He was trying to avoid being punished for guessing what he figured would be the surefire winner. That word of course is "you" -- as in "you stink" or "you must be blind". You get a little leeway in saying, "That call stunk." Rumor has it that the word "you" is what got Roger Clemens tossed in the first inning of his playoff debacle against Dave Stewart and the A's in 1990.

No league has a "Must slide rule!" However, if the runner fails to slide, and the contact is not deemed malicious (you know the difference), such action may result in a simple interference call. It would be sorted at the conclusion of the play. If a runner gives himself up, no interference nor a slide be necessary. Don't say "He must slide." A "must slide" rule is problematic and may cause unnecessary injuries.

Our Pony League has always had a "must slide" rule at home, to avoid collisions with hard catchers' equipment. It got silly for awhile, where runners were being called out for not sliding on throws coming in from the left side of the diamond where they had no clue the ball was coming and the catcher caught if after they'd crossed the plate. Now there has to be a possibility of a collision. I agree that sliding when kids aren't ready to do so can results in sprains and breaks, when just trying to dodge around the tag may be safer.

For example, I have video where my son scored a run last year from second on a single. The catcher had planted himself directly in front of home to take the throw, so my son took a path behind him. At the last second, the throw went high and the catcher backed up to try to catch, forcing my son to change his path toward the front of the plate. Even though he clearly would be safe, he had to literally jump on the plate in a faux slide to make sure he wouldn't be called out. As you can see here (and can click HERE to see the video of the play), it was not a pretty slide.

[Bluesteve32]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

Our Pony League has always had a "must slide" rule at home, to avoid collisions with hard catchers' equipment. It got silly for awhile, where runners were being called out for not sliding on throws coming in from the left side of the diamond where they had no clue the ball was coming and the catcher caught if after they'd crossed the plate. Now there has to be a possibility of a collision. I agree that sliding when kids aren't ready to do so can results in sprains and breaks, when just trying to dodge around the tag may be safer.

For example, I have video where my son scored a run last year from second on a single. The catcher had planted himself directly in front of home to take the throw, so my son took a path behind him. At the last second, the throw went high and the catcher backed up to try to catch, forcing my son to change his path toward the front of the plate. Even though he clearly would be safe, he had to literally jump on the plate in a faux slide to make sure he wouldn't be called out. As you can see here (and can click HERE to see the video of the play), it was not a pretty slide.

99% of the people confuse a "Must slide" rule for a "avoid contact" rule.

If there is no play, does there have to be a slide? If so why? Unnecessary sliding can cause even more injuries than potential collisions.

Secondly, if a runner gives himself up, just stops or slows down knowing he is to be tagged out, did he violate a "must slide rule?"

I work for a youth umpires group that covers some two dozen leagues playing Pony, Little League, CABA, and USABA and many alos work HS games. If I would get a nickle for every coach telling me about a "must slde rule," I'd be able to buy a MLB club.

Most of these leagues have an "avoid contact rule," which means the runner must avoid contact with a fielder in possession or ready to receive the ball. The best way to avoid contact is sliding, but not the only way. I have seen runner basically "juke" the catcher (or other fielder) stay within the baseline and make the base. "He didn't slide," is what I often hear. My reply is, "Was ther any contact?"

"No!" replies the coach.

"Then why does there have to be a slide?"

At ground rules, I make it clear, especially in a league I am not as familiar or the begining of tournaments, since they often involve teams that play under slightly different rules.

Another situation, normally at the plate as well, a throw up the line and the catch is 10-15 feet up the line moving toward the runner. There is often a collision in this case. Does it break any rules? Normally, no, unless the catcher does not actually have the ball (LL and NCAA rules) or have the ball or ready to receive the ball (NFHS and OBR rules) or the runner engages in "malicious contact." Virtually in all cases, malicious contact is an out for interference and that player would be ejected.

If a runner scores and then maliciously contacts a fielder (catcher or pitcher backing up home or covering home) the run would score, if ther eare any other runners, one would be decalered out (the runner closest to home or the one that would have had a legitimate second play, judgement call), and runner return the the last base the acquired at the time of the interference.

So if the catcher runs up the line while a ruuner is charging hard from third, you have two forces coming at each other and contact, unless there is intent by either player to engage in malicous contact (I have seen catchers, in their gear, try to hurt some runners in a disadvantagous situation), then there may be "incidental contact" which may be vicious, but unintentional. There is an inherent risk while playing any sport, a baseball has balls, bats, and collisions with fences, ground, players, walls and the like, that ther will be people getting injured. So when the runner is too far to slide, the catcher moves up the line, and there is no time for the runner to adjust or avoid contact, and the catcher did not obstruct the runner by not having the ball, you just may have "no call" as there is no interference, no obstruction, and possibly no out if the catcher did not hang on to the ball.

*******War story alert*********

About ten years ago, working a Pony League game (one man game), runners at second and third, no outs. Batter swings and misses a low pitch in the dirt and starts to run to first, the first baseman was playing about halfway down, not at the bag, the catcher throws the ball to the first baseman, clearly standing on the infield grass, the runner was running in the dirt, changes direction onto the infield grass, winds up his arms and looks like a linebacker after a runner in football.

As this was going on the runners break for home and third respectively. When I saw the malicious contact by the batter-runner, I immediately called the batter-runner out on the tag (by the first baseman), ejected the batter-runner, declared the ball dead, called the runner advancing from third out on the batter-runner's interference, and sent the runner at second back to second (runners return to the base they held at the time of the interference).

Natrually, the manager went ballistic and said that I could not make that call. Since I was working by myself, there was no one on the field that could help out (not that I really needed any, but it may have been able to diffuse the situation) and kept on arguing the same thing, "You can't make that call!" I did what most of us would rather not do by suggesting that he has another alternative and let's get on with the game. It finally dawned on him to protest the situation, so he says, "I protest this ruling!"

"Fine!" I replied, and facing up towards the official scorer, who just happened to be the League President, and motioned a "backwards 'P'" for protest, and said, "He is protesting the game." Which was actually done corectly.

Now the manager, who at one time was an umpire with whom I had worked, went right back to saying "you can't make that call." I told him, "You protested the game, the call will stand, go back to your coaching box, and let's finish this game, there is nothing more that can be done!"

Well, he replied, "You can't make that call!" and then said, "Go back to Little League." Well, that did it. He was immediately ejected. However, his actions got his crowd into a tizzy fit for the rest of the game, and was the most miserable experience I have ever had on the ballfield. This happened in the second inning, so for five miserable innings, I had to put up with this (excrement).

After the game, I went up to that upper room above the snack bar wherne the offical scorers and announcers booth is located, threw the game balls down and told the President, "They protested the game, but I am not comming back here this year!"

He said, "Don't worry about the protest, you were right."

"Thanks Charlie (his actual name), but I am still not coming back to do these one man games here." I did not return the rest of the season and I showed up the next season with a couple of old time managers, "I thought you quit."

"No, that (name of the manager) situation last season, I just did not come back here."

******End of war story********

Ursa Major, I am willing to bet that your league's rule is indeed a "avoid contact rule" as opposed to a "must slide rule." I don't beleive that you ever should mandate that a runner must slide

[PopTop]

A most excellent thread indeed. Also echo Jake's notion of being able to include some of this in our upcoming Rules & Umpire Clinic if that's possible. The stuff about how a catcher and umpire can work together is super!

I do my best as an umpire to make my call as the pitch crosses the plate, at least make my mind up then and not even worry about where the catcher ends up with the ball. Jerky moves back into the strike zone or holding a pitch for a couple of seconds does no good with me. And nothing gets in my craw faster than some coach or parent sitting or standing 50 feet away at a 90-degree angle to the plate and hollering at me, "Where was that, Blue? Look where the catcher caught it!"

[Jake Patterson]

Originally Posted by PopTop

Look where the catcher caught it!"

At a particularly frustrating game. I finally asked the umpire about a called ball, "Where was that Blue?" He replied, "Outside the strike zone, coach." The next pitch was another close one outside, ball two, and I asked again, "Now where the hell was that one?" He replied, "Outside the strike zone, coach." The next ball was another close ball outside and I said, "I suppose that one was outside the strike zone too?" Now you're catching on coach! That's why we call them balls."

[Bluesteve32]

You know that most umpires want to call a lot of stikes. Maore stikes = more outs and the game moves quickly.

[Ursa Major]

BlueSteve said: Ursa Major, I am willing to bet that your league's rule is indeed a "avoid contact rule" as opposed to a "must slide rule." I don't beleive that you ever should mandate that a runner must slide

Here's the exact rule:

A catcher may not block home plate unless he or she is in the process of making a play at the plate - he or she must have the ball or be in the immediate act of catching the ball. In this case, the runner must slide. A base runner who runs into the catcher without sliding (when there is a play at the plate) will be called out. The intent of this rule is to avoid unsafe conditions at the plate. Failure to slide does not automatically result in an out - if there is no possibility of a collision with the catcher, then no slide is required.

The term "no possibility of a collision" has been interpreted by the coaches (and presumably the umpires) to mean that the ball will arrive so late or so far from the plate that there is no risk of collision (at least not with a catcher with ball in hand). The prevailing wisdom is that a player will be called out if the catcher catches the ball up the third base line and toward the dugout and the player evades the tag but does not slide, even though the only conceivable collision is between the runner and the outstretched glove of the catcher desperately reaching into the baseline. This is close to what happened with my son in the scene shown above; if he had not slid, he very possibly would have been called out, even though his slide had nothing to do with avoiding a tag.

My son is on the Coach-pitch umpiring crew; I'll ask him to get a ruling from the ump supervisor (a very experienced umpire up to college level) for his interpretation.

PopTop said: And nothing gets in my craw faster than some coach or parent sitting or standing 50 feet away at a 90-degree angle to the plate and hollering at me, "Where was that, Blue? Look where the catcher caught it!"

On the other hand, in leagues like ours where the dugout is close to home plate, players and coaches often have a better view of heighths of pitches than the plate umpire. As I'm sure you know, inexperienced umpires tend to deem any pitch that does not actually hit the dirt high enough to be a strike, because they can't assess depth perception well. So, a pitch an inch off the ground may be a strike, and everyone on both benches can see the error. There, I can see a little well restrained grumbling to have the benefit of getting the umpire's head back into the game. This is not to say that the crowd is always right. A slow pitch that hits the dirt in front of a catcher positioned deep in the catcher's box may well be a strike.

[Bluesteve32]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

Here's the exact rule:

A catcher may not block home plate unless he or she is in the process of making a play at the plate - he or she must have the ball or be in the immediate act of catching the ball. In this case, the runner must slide. A base runner who runs into the catcher without sliding (when there is a play at the plate) will be called out. The intent of this rule is to avoid unsafe conditions at the plate. Failure to slide does not automatically result in an out - if there is no possibility of a collision with the catcher, then no slide is required.

The term "no possibility of a collision" has been interpreted by the coaches (and presumably the umpires) to mean that the ball will arrive so late or so far from the plate that there is no risk of collision (at least not with a catcher with ball in hand). The prevailing wisdom is that a player will be called out if the catcher catches the ball up the third base line and toward the dugout and the player evades the tag but does not slide, even though the only conceivable collision is between the runner and the outstretched glove of the catcher desperately reaching into the baseline. This is close to what happened with my son in the scene shown above; if he had not slid, he very possibly would have been called out, even though his slide had nothing to do with avoiding a tag.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Any time you mandate a play that he must slide, leave open a whole can of worms. What if a player slides, get injured, because he could have avoided contact?

I am not a big fan of many NFHS (High School rules), but their avoid contact rules gives the runners and umpires more choices and does not mandate sliding, but defines legal slides. The NFHS's language specifies, "A player does not have to slide, but if he does so, it must be legal."

I understand the league's intent, but this reminds me of those school districts that have a zero tolerance for weapons, and expels a second graded for bring his GI Joe which happened to have that 2 1/2" weapon.

Wouldn't an "avoid contact rule" do the same thing? Sometime, some mommy will sue the league because Johnny had to slide and he broke his ankle because the catcher was up the line and Johnny was "bitwixed and between." No league in my area, Little League, Pony League or any of the national organization have "must slide" rules. "Avoid contact" rules (with the idea that the best way to "avoid contact" is to slide, but not the only way) seem to be best.

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

My son is on the Coach-pitch umpiring crew; I'll ask him to get a ruling from the ump supervisor (a very experienced umpire up to college level) for his interpretation.

Good Idea. He may agree to modify the rule.

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

On the other hand, in leagues like ours where the dugout is close to home plate, players and coaches often have a better view of heighths of pitches than the plate umpire. As I'm sure you know, inexperienced umpires tend to deem any pitch that does not actually hit the dirt high enough to be a strike, because they can't assess depth perception well. So, a pitch an inch off the ground may be a strike, and everyone on both benches can see the error. There, I can see a little well restrained grumbling to have the benefit of getting the umpire's head back into the game. This is not to say that the crowd is always right. A slow pitch that hits the dirt in front of a catcher positioned deep in the catcher's box may well be a strike.

Too many umpire do call a very low strike zone. One colleague, who isa big time D-1 umpire and the state rules interpreter for HS, told me a trick about that lower pitch and when to call it a strike:

If the catcher catches a fastball at his knees, it should be a strike

You know, that really seems to work at any level, and if the catcher sets up in the middle of the plate, and catches the ball in his normal stance between the knees of shin guards, it should be a strike. Sinkers, curves, changeups and similar pitches, the normal practice is the catcher needs to get it in the air to get that call. By rule, some pitches may actually hit the ground and could be called strikes, but those are rare occurances. The more pitches called a strike, the better the game, no one, especially in youth ball, does not want to see a walk-a-thon.

More recently, Gerry Davis, who conducts many clincs in the off season, has developed the most recent stance now being used by umpires. The common stances that have been in vogue the last two decades has been the box (the different variations taught at the pro schools, passed on to amateur umpires in clincs and those who attended Wendlstedt's, Evans', or Brinkman's schools), the knee (ump on one knee, not reccommended for youth ball or umpire under 6'), and the scissors (similar to the knee, but the back leg is not resting on the ground). Now many have switched to the Gerry Davis System (GDS), which is similar to most base umpires' stances when inside the diamond (hands on knees) by putting the hands just behind the shin guards and leaning over.

Last Saturday, I tried that stance, even though I tried it last season, I kept on reverting back to my traditional box stance, which I have used for over two decades. It was fantastic, and since I had not worked a game since last July, I was able to work nine innings in less than three hours, no problems on the legs, knees, and felt comfortable. Many conferences and associations are trying to bring the zone up a bit, so this stance seems to help.

My guess is that your umpires are too low and calling the pitch too early. The ought to slow down a bit, wait until the ball hits the catcher's glove and that will help their timing and they'll miss fewer pitches.

[Bluesteve32]

Originally Posted by PopTop

A most excellent thread indeed. Also echo Jake's notion of being able to include some of this in our upcoming Rules & Umpire Clinic if that's possible. The stuff about how a catcher and umpire can work together is super!

I do my best as an umpire to make my call as the pitch crosses the plate, at least make my mind up then and not even worry about where the catcher ends up with the ball. Jerky moves back into the strike zone or holding a pitch for a couple of seconds does no good with me. And nothing gets in my craw faster than some coach or parent sitting or standing 50 feet away at a 90-degree angle to the plate and hollering at me, "Where was that, Blue? Look where the catcher caught it!"

I like it when the catcher set up so far outside and then he does not move his glove. This is ususally a HS trick, the coaches OOOOOOOOOOO and AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH, I turn and, with a grin, hold out my hands about 9" to 12." They often grin right back.

[Bluesteve32]

While we are on the subject, I will mention the number one petr peeve by many umpires at all levels and that is showing up the umpire.

When a pitch is called a strike and the batter thought itwas too far inside or outside, some smart alecks will draw a line with their bats at the spot they thought the pitch went. Some of my colleagues will immediately eject a batter for that one, my trick is to borrow the bat, draw a line on the other side of the plate the same distance, hand him back the bat and tell him, "Good luck! and "I like you line better" or "Ok, we'll go with your's now!"

Another is to look at the third base coach and motion with his hand to where he though the location of that last pitch. One line used that a buddy of mine used, "If you thought that one was bad, wait 'till you see this one!"

What bugs some adult umpires, that have been trained and are experienced, is to have some "punk kid," who thinks he knows more than that umpire. In fact, there is a kid on my son's team that is quite arrogant when I am explaining rules (I am helping coaching the team this season). He actually argued with me about a rule! Somehow, he has learned more baseball and its rules in his 13 years of life that I did in my 10 years coaching, 15 years as a groudskeeper, and my 24 seasons as an umpire with some 15 as an instructor!

For leagues using trained umpires, treat them professionally, be courtious, and the should give you the same respect. If they don't hustle or seem fair, go through "proper channels" and report them. The association and/or assigner will take care of things if they value your league's patronage.

Those leagues using volunteer and in-house umpires, please understand that they may not have had sufficient training (that four hour field clinic at the begining of each season helps, but is not sufficient). Also, their rule knowledge just may not be what it is supposed to be.

Keep in mind, what you see in MLB may not be applicable in your league. Little League's actual rules mirro many OBR rules word for wod and use the same number, but those differences are enough to be significant that you see at Yankee Stadium. Those league using OBR, keep in mind most organizations that use OBR had unique modifications (substitutions, safetys rules) peculiar to that organization or league.

Also, when watching a HS game, the rules have significant rule differences, like substitutions, DH, reentry, balks, FPS (force play slide rules, where a runner in the fron end of a DP, must slide directly into the base or veer away from the play and ther does not have to be a slide) and NCAA rules have some unique features, especially with the DH (would rather not get into NCAA's complex DH rule ) as well.

Lastly, Joe Morgan, Vin Scully, Tim McCarver, Harlold Reynolds and all the announcers of baseball do not have a clue on the rules. Please don't take their word when watching the game on TV or listening on radio. I'd be happy if they could discern the difference between obstruction and interference.

[Bluesteve32]

This one is simple, but almost everyone get is wrong.

A foul tip, is a pitch which hits of the bat and in a direct filght is caught by the catcher. the ball is alive and in plays, runners may advance at their own peril. If a ball directly off the bat and hits the catcher's glove or meat hand, and then is smothered or possessed by any fielder (like to see that happen) would also be a foul tip.

A foul ball is all other balls of the bat that is not fair. It would also be a foul ball if the ball, directly off the bat, hits the catcher's (or umpire's)paraphenilia (chest protector, mask, etc), without first contacting the glove or meat hand, it is a foul ball, even is "caught" before it hits the ground.

I got hit with a ball and someone said, "Oh did you get hit with a foul tip?" Ah, no...if it were a foul tip, the ball would not have hit me. I got hit with a foul ball.

[bbjunkie]

In LL I believe that the rule does not say that a runner must slide, it says they must avoid contact. If he slides and a collision occurs, no problem. But if he doesn't slide and a collision occurs he is out. If he doesn't slide and no collision occurs, no problem.

[Bluesteve32]

Batting out of Order (BOO) is the most complex rule in baseball. Rule 6.07 in Little League and OBR.

This is the Reader's Digest version. All codes agree, too.

When a batter completes (reaches base or is put out) his turn, in the wrong spot in the batting order, on appeal, he shall be declared out and all runners who advance due to the imporper batter, would return to their last bases and any outs made, stand. The batter who name on the line up that follows the batter declared out, would be the next batter, if he is legally on base, the next one on the line up would bat.

Appeals must be made before the next pitch. If not the improper batter's at bat is now proper and you can't do much about that. However, the wrong batter may now be at the plate.

If you appeal an improper batter before he completes his turn, the proper batter would take his place and assume the count. If you want the out, wait until he finishes that turn at bat.

Sometimes an improper batter may bat, reach base, be declared out, and now be the proper batter. Basically, the batter who should have batter, end up missing his turn.

Keep in mind, the batter who should have batter would be out, after he/she is out, the guy who follows him/her would be the correct batter. By some chance that player is on base, skip to the next batter. All steals, balks, wild pitches made duing that at bat stand; however, if a runner advances on the ball hit by the imnproper batter, is return following the appeal and out made on the play stand. For example, proper batter grounds into a force play and reaches safely, On appeal, that improper batter is out, the force out stands and any other runner would return to their base unless the third out is made.

I hope this helps, more screw ups happen due to the BOO rule, and because many do not understand how to apply it or enforce it, this can be the cause of many protests.

[Bluesteve32]

Originally Posted by bbjunkie

In LL I believe that the rule does not say that a runner must slide, it says they must avoid contact. If he slides and a collision occurs, no problem. But if he doesn't slide and a collision occurs he is out. If he doesn't slide and no collision occurs, no problem.

Unless they put one in recently, you are correct. I had a DA tell me that a decade ago in SR. League tournament (CA-18).

[Ursa Major]

BlueSteve said: Wouldn't an "avoid contact rule" do the same thing? Sometime, some mommy will sue the league because Johnny had to slide and he broke his ankle because the catcher was up the line and Johnny was "bitwixed and between." No league in my area, Little League, Pony League or any of the national organization have "must slide" rules. "Avoid contact" rules (with the idea that the best way to "avoid contact" is to slide, but not the only way) seem to be best.

BBJunkie said: In LL I believe that the rule does not say that a runner must slide, it says they must avoid contact. If he slides and a collision occurs, no problem. But if he doesn't slide and a collision occurs he is out. If he doesn't slide and no collision occurs, no problem.

BB, I think you've got it. There will be some plays in which a collision is inevitable, so it's best for all concerned if the runner slides to minimize his speed at contact and to lessen the possibility that two-larged mass or critical (i.e., noggins) body parts will collide. But, if you can avoid contact altogether, you're safe (in both meanings of the word).

The problem with a rule that revolves around "sliding when a play at the plate is possible" is assessing when that possibility exists. Going back to the example of my son, clearly the collision was possible from his perspective at any point up until he was about twelve feet from the plate. The catcher, following the path of the ball, knew there was no risk when the runner was about twenty feet out. And, from a real world point of view, the chance of a play at the plate was gone when the ball left the outfielders hand at too high a trajectory, when the runner was about 55 feet away. So, which "possibility" governs?

BlueSteve said: By rule, some pitches may actually hit the ground and could be called strikes, but those are rare occurances.

In any league up to 12 years old, this can happen easily, with slow changeups (or slow pitchers) and catchers who seem more afraid to get up behind the batter.

As to your comment about calling strikes to avoid a walk-a-thon, my main objection is in youth games when the low outside strike is given too frequently, particularly against short batters. They may be closer to the ground, but their arms are shorter and the have to carry shorter bats because of their lesser strength. It is physically impossible for them to reach those pitches, and umpires who regularly give that strike ruin the game for kids who are most at risk of giving it up.

[bbjunkie]

Originally Posted by Bluesteve32

Batting out of Order (BOO) is the most complex rule in baseball. Rule 6.07 in Little League and OBR.

I hope this helps, more screw ups happen due to the BOO rule, and because many do not understand how to apply it or enforce it, this can be the cause of many protests.

There's one more little twist. When an improper batter reaches base and an appeal is not made, the next proper batter becomes the batter that follows the improper batter, now legalized runner, in the order.

[Bluesteve32]

Originally Posted by bbjunkie

There's one more little twist. When an improper batter reaches base and an appeal is not made, the next proper batter becomes the batter that follows the improper batter, now legalized runner, in the order.

Yes, that is true. Often in a BOO situation, hitter actually "switch" so a BOO situation may happen, even after an improper batter has been made proper. I was trying to say that, but when you do a Reader's Digest version, you tend to miss something.

[Bluesteve32]

Originally Posted by Ursa Major

In any league up to 12 years old, this can happen easily, with slow changeups (or slow pitchers) and catchers who seem more afraid to get up behind the batter.

As to your comment about calling strikes to avoid a walk-a-thon, my main objection is in youth games when the low outside strike is given too frequently, particularly against short batters. They may be closer to the ground, but their arms are shorter and the have to carry shorter bats because of their lesser strength. It is physically impossible for them to reach those pitches, and umpires who regularly give that strike ruin the game for kids who are most at risk of giving it up.

Calling pitches that actually hit the ground, was not what I was saying should be the practice, even though by rule, it may actually be a strike. My son played Pinto (7-8 years) last season, in a kid pitch league. My biggest critiqie was not enough strikes were being called. I don't like those extememly low stikes called, like seems to be the norm, however, if the catcher does catch the ball at his knee, there is no way that pitch is too low for the hitter to hit the ball.

As far as bats go, there are now -11 bats (length and weight differential, NCAA and NFHS must have -3 with a BESR rating) for those smaller players.

Pitching is so inconsistant at the younger level, and teaching kids to walk every at bat is also doing a disservice. Last season, one manager had the weaker hitters stand almost on top of the plate and not swing at any pitches. How is that teaching the game?

[Ursa Major]

As far as bats go, there are now -11 bats (length and weight differential, NCAA and NFHS must have -3 with a BESR rating) for those smaller players.

They actually go up to -12.5. Even so, for tiny kids, a 29/16.5 is a lot of bat to get around.

Pitching is so inconsistant at the younger level, and teaching kids to walk every at bat is also doing a disservice. Last season, one manager had the weaker hitters stand almost on top of the plate and not swing at any pitches. How is that teaching the game?

I assume that is in the Pinto league? How do coaches like that even get into the league? I think there should be meetings among coaches (or at least roundtable, on-line exchanges with the league presidents) at that level where coaches can bring up issues like that that where they think competitiveness gets in the way of instruction. And, it will take years for those kids to ever swing at a 3-2 pitch, as they'll still think that a walk is the primary ticket to first base.