Graves And Karsay

[TOPPS]

The Indians sign Danny Graves and Steve Karsay today. Do you guys feel that either of them have a chance for the Indians bullpen this year?

[BoofBonser26]

If they came relatively cheap, it doesn't seem like it will hurt. I think Graves will make the team for sure.

[redlegsfan21]

Graves will just blow up. He can't pitch anymore unless the Indians pitching staff can help him. I was sad to see him leave Cincinnati but he just couldn't pitch.

Player	        G	W	L	WP	SV	SVO	SV%	IP	K	H	ER	HR	BB	ERA
Danny Graves	20	1	1	0.500	10	12	0.833	18 1/3	8	30	15	4	12	7.36

These are his 2005 Cincinnati Reds stats.

[Last of the Indian fans]

Originally Posted by nascarfn5

Graves will just blow up. He can't pitch anymore unless the Indians pitching staff can help him. I was sad to see him leave Cincinnati but he just couldn't pitch.

Player	        G	W	L	WP	SV	SVO	SV%	IP	K	H	ER	HR	BB	ERA
Danny Graves	20	1	1	0.500	10	12	0.833	18 1/3	8	30	15	4	12	7.36

These are his 2005 Cincinnati Reds stats.

until the fans started turning on him he wasnt bad... but if he can handle sychotice fans this not the place to be

[KCGHOST]

It will cost the Indians only $1.175M if both of these guys make the roster. That, of course, is chump change.

Hard to believe Graves can be a factor. His WHiP last year was 2.15, his K/9 was below the league average, his HR/9 was 2.0, and his K/BB was 1.00. That is a non-survivable set of peripherals.

Karsay has only pitched 27 innings in the last three seasons combined so it is very doubtful that his health will hold up. He does have better peripherals that Graves.

Either way both of these guys are long shots, but are priced attractively. Not a bad risk for the Tribe at all.

[Last of the Indian fans]

yeah but i think the tribe is hoping to get the karsay of old when he was decent set up man... but health is always a concern... but the tribe have been lucky with things like that... tallet, wickman, millwood, howry, sauerbeck, "BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"NE!, (i am booing not booning) damn that second casey blake (three wothless guys all over 31 and hitting a combined .246, that production)juan gonzalez (thank god he got hurt, sizemore may still be in buffalo)one-hit wonder (traber, i will never forget, god darn john flarehty) bringing nagy back, travis fryman... and when have they ever put a person's past health concerns into there pick ups... besides guys who have come back to cleveland have done well in there second stint..... Need a 5th starter???? Bring back Brian Anderson.... one game under .500 for a career, why not... it would be almost like a trade... elarton for anderson... but hey... it could happen... a fixed world series for the tribe... lets just fake a curse... dont we have that rocky curse thingy.... jeez finals are over and i have nothin better to do now but think of all this crap...

[VIBaseball]

Danny's stats as a Met were hardly any better than his Cincy record:

0-0, 5.75 ERA

29 hits, 8 walks, and 3 HBP in 20.1 IP for a BAA of .337 and WHIP of 1.82 (and he hit 3 batters)

and 5 HRs allowed.

He's got nothing left, from what I saw. And though I didn't see Karsay, it doesn't look promising going by the numbers.

[BoofBonser26]

In my opinion that Graves makes the team, I'm assuming 2005 was a one-time abomination. Which could be foolhardy on my part.

And, last of the Indians fans, you don't seem like a very optimistic fan. Yes, the Tribe has signed some washed-up guys, but what if I said:

Thome
Vizquel
Ramirez
Belle
Sizemore
Martinez
Peralta
Hafner

Their strength is in developing (or trading for) tallent, not signing free agents. I'm perfectly content with that.

[sschirmer]

Boof, for once, I disagree. I actually think Karsay is the better sign here, and the one with a better chance to make the club. I'll be shocked if Gravey makes the team.

[BoofBonser26]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

Boof, for once, I disagree. I actually think Karsay is the better sign here, and the one with a better chance to make the club. I'll be shocked if Gravey makes the team.

Well then, I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

[Last of the Indian fans]

Originally Posted by BoofBonser26

In my opinion that Graves makes the team, I'm assuming 2005 was a one-time abomination. Which could be foolhardy on my part.

And, last of the Indians fans, you don't seem like a very optimistic fan. Yes, the Tribe has signed some washed-up guys, but what if I said:

Thome
Vizquel
Ramirez
Belle
Sizemore
Martinez
Peralta
Hafner

Their strength is in developing (or trading for) tallent, not signing free agents. I'm perfectly content with that.

developing talent is there strength and i love the indians dont question that.. i live and die with them... i dipped for a solid 8 hours when they missed the playoffs i was depressed... i have nothing but faith in the farm system and developing talent.... assuming graves doesnt self destruct again... he will be the better pick up... but cleveland fans are the most fickle fans ever, no matter what sport in this town... i.e. tim couch, we ruined him to the point where he needed elbow and shoulder surgery cause he kept playing hurt, played well, (fourth fastest quaterback to 10k yards) and we still booed him for the back up... back to the subject, if graves blows a lead and the fans boo him, which they were getting on a guy who had 45 saves a yr ago, how will he respond... they will boo him and talk smack on the radio about him just like they did to heavyweight champion closer of the world (wickman)... he will implode again if he makes the team and does poorly just cuz the fans are terrible... if graves makes the team... i really dont see karsay making it but on the off chance he might we are looking at a pitching staff of...

1. Sabathia
2. Westbrook
3. Lee
4. Tallet or Davis (i'd personally like to see him be the guy in the 7th, why not let him go out there for an inning and let it rip at 99 he can do it... and that saves us from 5th inning implosions)
5. Davis or ???

Karsay
Graves
Rhodes
Cabarera
Davis (I hope)
Sauerbeck
Wickman

If you cant get Millwood back... I'd say make a run at brian anderson make him the 5th and let tallet be the fourth... Three lefties in the rotation that would be heaven (and fit the larry dolan system)

[TOPPS]

Originally Posted by Last of the Indian fans

developing talent is there strength and i love the indians dont question that.. i live and die with them... i dipped for a solid 8 hours when they missed the playoffs i was depressed... i have nothing but faith in the farm system and developing talent.... assuming graves doesnt self destruct again... he will be the better pick up... but cleveland fans are the most fickle fans ever, no matter what sport in this town... i.e. tim couch, we ruined him to the point where he needed elbow and shoulder surgery cause he kept playing hurt, played well, (fourth fastest quaterback to 10k yards) and we still booed him for the back up... back to the subject, if graves blows a lead and the fans boo him, which they were getting on a guy who had 45 saves a yr ago, how will he respond... they will boo him and talk smack on the radio about him just like they did to heavyweight champion closer of the world (wickman)... he will implode again if he makes the team and does poorly just cuz the fans are terrible... if graves makes the team... i really dont see karsay making it but on the off chance he might we are looking at a pitching staff of...

1. Sabathia
2. Westbrook
3. Lee
4. Tallet or Davis (i'd personally like to see him be the guy in the 7th, why not let him go out there for an inning and let it rip at 99 he can do it... and that saves us from 5th inning implosions)
5. Davis or ???

Karsay
Graves
Rhodes
Cabarera
Davis (I hope)
Sauerbeck
Wickman

If you cant get Millwood back... I'd say make a run at brian anderson make him the 5th and let tallet be the fourth... Three lefties in the rotation that would be heaven (and fit the larry dolan system)

what about Paul Byrd???? and I would rather see Carmona than davis or tallet.

[Last of the Indian fans]

Originally Posted by TOPPS

what about Paul Byrd???? and I would rather see Carmona than davis or tallet.

i forgot we signed him my bad....

[sschirmer]

Now Jason Johnson is in the five slot. Hopefully, the youngsters can supply some depth in the Bully.

[redbuck]

Danny Graves, in my opinion, is quite possibly the worst pitcher in baseball.

Don't get me started on my criticisms of the "save" as a stat or the "closer" role in general.

[sschirmer]

I still say Karsay has a better shot.

[1doug]

Graves is done I believe, he really lost it with Cincinnati and then the Mets also, I dont think he can just go back to being "good" from where he is now.

[BoofBonser26]

And it's Graves.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle

[sschirmer]

Originally Posted by BoofBonser26

And it's Graves.

http://cleveland.indians.mlb.com/NAS...=.jsp&c_id=cle

Hats off to you Boof. You were right on this one. As I said on another thread, I am shocked over this. I didn't think Graves had a snowballs chance in hell of making the team. You certainly got me on this one.

[BoofBonser26]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

Hats off to you Boof. You were right on this one. As I said on another thread, I am shocked over this. I didn't think Graves had a snowballs chance in hell of making the team. You certainly got me on this one.

I didn't know if he'd be the better choice (though I'd say so now). At the time, I just thought he had the better shot. I mean, it can't hurt to have a former closer in your 'pen, even if he's lost some of his stuff.

[BoofBonser26]

Gone and gone.

[sschirmer]

Originally Posted by BoofBonser26

Gone and gone.

LOL, ain't that the truth.