Current Top 10 Catchers

[Yankee Legend]

I have decided to start a poll similar to the one in the history forum except use current players. This is to find the best players today at the variuos positions. I will do one for 1B, 2B, 3B, etc. To vote, simple list the top 10 catchers that are active in order from best (#1) to least (#10). The results will be tabulated after 2 weeks and will be announced on dec 23 @ 10 PM. The points will be alloted based on the player's ranking on each list (1st place gets 10, 2nd gets 9, 3rd gets 8, etc.)

Ok, so ill start off:

1. Jason Varitek
2. Ivan Rodriguez
3. Victor Martinez
4. Ramon Hernandez
5. Joe Mauer
6. Jason Kendall
7. Jorge Posada
8. Paul LoDuca
9. Michael Barrett
10. Bengie Molina

[Dasperp]

1. Victor Martinez
2. Jason Varitek
3. Joe Mauer
4. Jorge Posada
5. Michael Barrett
6. Ramon Hernandez
7. Bengie Molina
8. Javy Lopez
9. Mike Piazza
10. Mike Lieberthal

I know people are going to ask why i didn't include Pudge, so here is my reason. He had a .290 OBP last year. I don't care how good your defense is, that is just unnaceptable. And considering his weight loss, he is definitely under steroid suspicion.

[538280]

1.Victor Martinez-Good defense, and great offense. Best offensive catcher in the game.
2.Jason Varitek-Him and Martinez are on a plateau of their own with offesne, but his defense isn't that great
3.Joe Mauer-Young catcher with fabulous future ahead of him.
4.Jorge Posada-Declining, but still very solid
5.Brian Schneider-Good offense, just doesn't look good because of RFK. Also awesome defense and intangibles.
6.Mike Matheny-Best defensive catcher in the game
7.Michael Barrett-Like Varitek, but offense is a step lower
8.Jason LaRue-Ditto of Barrett
9.Bengie Molina-Would be top level offensive catcher if he was a bit more patient
10.Mike Piazza-Will probably be a heavy hitting DH next year

[538280]

Come on, guys. My positional polls over at the History forum are thriving with lots of ballots submitted, and you can't even get more than three? I know you can do better than this. It's not a hard thing to do, pick the 10 best catchers in the game today.

[BasEbaLlKnoItAll]

Top 10, not in order

Victor Martinez
Jorge Posada
Jason Varitek
Joe Mauer
Paul Lo Duca
Bengie Molina
Ramon Hernandez
Ivan Rodriguez
A.J. Pierzynski
Mike Matheny

[538280]

Originally Posted by BasEbaLlKnoItAll

Top 10, not in order

Victor Martinez
Jorge Posada
Jason Varitek
Joe Mauer
Paul Lo Duca
Bengie Molina
Ramon Hernandez
Ivan Rodriguez
A.J. Pierzynski
Mike Matheny

I'm not running this poll, but it has to be in order to mean anything with this format.

[ThePeach]

1- Jason Varitek
2- Victor Martinez
3- Joe Mauer
4- Jorge Posada
5- Pudge
6- Bengie Molina
7- Ramon Hernadez
8- Paul Lo Duca
9- A.J. Pierzynski (sp?)
10- Mike Matheny

[Yankee Legend]

Originally Posted by BasEbaLlKnoItAll

Top 10, not in order

Victor Martinez
Jorge Posada
Jason Varitek
Joe Mauer
Paul Lo Duca
Bengie Molina
Ramon Hernandez
Ivan Rodriguez
A.J. Pierzynski
Mike Matheny

the rules are that they have to be in order (otherwise that will be counted as your order)

[Brannu]

1. Mike Piazza - will retire as one of the greatest.
2. Ivan Rodriquez - will also retire as one of the greatest.
3. Jorge Posada - has been a force for The Yankees for years now.
4. Mike Matheny - I take defense, in a catcher, before offense.
5. Bengie Molina - same reasoning as above.
6. Jason Varitek - they're not stealing on him as much anymore.
7. Victor Martinez - defense needs to pick up ... offense will be great for years.
8. Paul Lo Duca - decent all around.
9. Yadier Molina - The Future.
10. Joe Mauer - The Future.

I put the guys with great careers first because I think they are due that level of respect. Mauer, Molina, Martinez ... they still have years of proving how good they really are. Martinez has done great at the plate (.380 after the all-star break), still has to show up and throw more runners out. Yadier may be the best defensive out of all of them and I believe that his hitting will get better also, especially if he listens to Pujols. I don't know much about Mauer, but, from a quick look at his numbers ... he will be great also.

[pacewon]

1. Victor Martinez
2. Jorge Posada
3. Jason Varitek
4. Joe Mauer
5. Michael Barrett
6. Ramon Hernandez
7. Bengie Molina
8. Javy Lopez
9. Mike Piazza
10. Mike Lieberthal

1 Victor Martinez- Best hitting catcher in MLB.
2 Joe Mauer- Led all MLB catchers in Win Shares, young and promising.
3 Jason Varitek- Great bat, bad glove
4 Michael Barret- Decent glove, very good bat.
5 Jorge Posada- Nice blend of hitting and fielding
6 Mike Matheny- Sub-par bat, out of this world with his glove
7 Jason Larue- Similar to Barret
8 Brian Schneider- Like Matheny but not as stellar with the glove
9 Bengie Molina- Nice blend of offense/defense
10 Brad Ausmus- Worst hitter of the bunch, glove puts him on the list

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

1-Victor Martinez
2- Ivan Rodriguez
3-Joe Mauer
4-Paul Lo Duca
5-(yay!) Brian Schneider
6-Ramon Hernandez
7-Jason Varitek
8-Mike Matheny
9-A.J. Pierzynski
10-Mike Lieberthal? Javy Lopez? Brad Ausmus?Bengie Molina?

[Dasperp]

Brannu, i'm pretty sure the poll is for who is the best right now. With those rules, i don't see how you could put Piazza and Pudge so high and Martinez so low.

[Dasperp]

Wilkerson, what are your reasons for not including Posada and for putting Pudge and his .290 OBP second?

[baseball junkie]

Okay, I'll list mine but I really don't think 10 catchers truly qualify as special players so my list might be slightly truncated.

1.) Ivan Rodriguez (first-ballot Hall of Famer)
2.) Bengie Molina (best defensive catcher in the game oh yeah and he hits)
3.) Joe Mauer (he's 22 think about that)
4.) Jason Varitek (it physically makes me sick to type that as a Yankee fan)
5.) Jorge Posada ('nough said)
6.) Victor Martinez (hits, doesn't do much else)

So that's it folks, I came up with six.

Coming on strong, however, is Yadier Molina, 23, who I believe is the younger brother of Bengie Molina.

Excluded: Mike Piazza and Javy Lopez as neither is really a catcher anymore, are they?

Now my list of the All-Over-rated Catchers:
1.) Jason Kendall (.321 SLG% in 601 AB last year, yeah that's kind of bad)
2.) Brad Ausmus (.255 career BA, I can't figure out what's "special" about him)
3.) A.J. Pierzynski (grounds into double plays almost as much as he gets branded a clubhouse cancer)
4.) Ramon Hernandez (Baltimore just bought a $27.5 million bag of goods. Hernandez has averaged 105 games played over the last two years. Hope Javy doesn't get too comfy over at first.)

[moviegeekjan]

1. Jason Varitek
2. Mike Matheny
3. Bengie Molina
4. Victor Martinez
5. Ramon Hernandez
6. Yadier Molina
7. Joe Mauer
8. Jorge Posada
9. Mike Piazza
10. Ivan Rodriquez

[Brannu]

Originally Posted by Dasperp

Brannu, i'm pretty sure the poll is for who is the best right now. With those rules, i don't see how you could put Piazza and Pudge so high and Martinez so low.

Well, Pudge is still pretty good himself ... and is more than proven with both the bat and the glove. I think Mike is near retirement, but, his bat would still be good if put at first base. They are the best, I think, of the era that we are playing in. I think history counts for something. I think our younger catchers that we are currently really high on, really need to prove themselves over a longer period of time. If Martinez puts in another stellar year, I think he moves up on my list ... but, what happens if next year his hitting doesn't stick and his numbers sink (which his power numbers did this past year)?

There are tons of one and two year wonders that never really prove themselves over the long term. I'm just holding out a little while longer.

But, then ... yes ... if we are considering at the end of the 2005 season, without history or future ... then the list changes all together.

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Originally Posted by Dasperp

Wilkerson, what are your reasons for not including Posada and for putting Pudge and his .290 OBP second?

1) Why are you criticizing Brannu and myself?
2) Posada isn't that good. Seriously compare 2005 and 2004. It just makes me laugh!
3) Pudge, despite .290 OBP, is still one of the best.

[Dasperp]

1) Why are you criticizing Brannu and myself?
2) Posada isn't that good. Seriously compare 2005 and 2004. It just makes me laugh!
3) Pudge, despite .290 OBP, is still one of the best

I'm not criticizing, just trying to create discussion, isn't that what these boards are for?

Pudge's line last year was .276/.290/.444, while Posada's was .262/.352/.430

Do you think Pudge's defensive ability can make up for a 60 point difference in OBP? That would be like claiming that Neifi Perez's defense makes up for the offensive difference between him and Jeter. I think OBP is by far the most important thing, so anyone with one that low is a poor player.

[538280]

Pudge and Ken Griffey Jr. are by far the most overrated players in my lifetime. Pudge's defense is also way overblown, because although he is probably the best ever at controlling the running game, A)The running isn't that important in the first place, and B)He can't handle the pitchers. This is a post I made on another thread:

"Ivan Rodrguez may seem the best defensive catcher by defensive metrics, but there is one significant part of catching that it is probably impossibel to quantify-dealing with the pitchers.

By almost all accounts, Rodriguez does not handle his pitchers very well. There have even been complaints from pitchers who were his battery mates. I don't know, but perhaps this has something to do with the large number of pitching flops the Rangers had in that time? The park I'm sure had something to do with it too, but Pudge may have had a small part in it.

Most catchers have a meeting with the pitchers before the game to go over matchups with hitters. What kind of pitches to thrown to them, where to locate pitches to get them out, that sort of stuff. From what I have heard, Pudge would never have meetings like that.

He may have been the best ever at controlling the running game, but he was awful at the areas of catching which can't be numerically quantified. Calling him the best defensive catcher ever is ignoring a whole very important aspect of the position.

He also had just god awful plate discipline (56 relative IsoPD, I mean that has to be as bad as anyone in the history of the game). I think he is overrated"

[Brannu]

Originally Posted by Dasperp

I'm not criticizing, just trying to create discussion, isn't that what these boards are for?

Pudge's line last year was .276/.290/.444, while Posada's was .262/.352/.430

Do you think Pudge's defensive ability can make up for a 60 point difference in OBP? That would be like claiming that Neifi Perez's defense makes up for the offensive difference between him and Jeter. I think OBP is by far the most important thing, so anyone with one that low is a poor player.

But, in order to make a real case for Jorge ... wouldn't you have to look at the entire career? In that case, I think the nod clearly goes to Ivan. We may be experiencing the decline of Pudge's greatness ... but, I'm not ready to call him out of the top 5 because of one year.

[Brannu]

Originally Posted by 538280

Pudge and Ken Griffey Jr. are by far the most overrated players in my lifetime. Pudge's defense is also way overblown, because although he is probably the best ever at controlling the running game, A)The running isn't that important in the first place, and B)He can't handle the pitchers.

Isn't knocking a runner down at 2nd just as good as stopping a run or two? That appears to be pretty important to me. Your second point is a good one, but, then I do believe that you answered it. Who has he caught?

Two of the best players in the 90's are overrated? Wow. Both of the players you mentioned were/are excellent on both sides of the ball. Overrated? That's a tough call to make.

[Dasperp]

I too think Pudge is a little bit overrated. This is because i don't value SB's that much, and therefore don't value a catcher's ability to prevent them that much. That said, he is still one of the top 5 catchers of all time IMO. He may have awful plate discipline, but his career .347 obp is pretty good for a catcher. I think the way he is overrated is that many believe he is better than Piazza, wheras i think its not even close. Again, this is just due to my overall philosophy about value and how important throwing out baserunners is. If i believed this was just an off-year for Pudge, i would have included him. But i think this is real decline, especially because i think he was a 'roid user.

[KCGHOST]

1 Victor Martinez
2 Jason Varitek
3 Jorge Posada
4 Joe Mauer
5 Javier Lopez
6 Ivan Rodriguez
7 Ramon Hernandez
8 Michael Barrett
9 Mike Lieberthal
10 Jason Kendall

[wilkerson_rulz-06]

Originally Posted by Dasperp

I'm not criticizing, just trying to create discussion, isn't that what these boards are for?

Pudge's line last year was .276/.290/.444, while Posada's was .262/.352/.430

Do you think Pudge's defensive ability can make up for a 60 point difference in OBP? That would be like claiming that Neifi Perez's defense makes up for the offensive difference between him and Jeter. I think OBP is by far the most important thing, so anyone with one that low is a poor player.

OBP is not the most important thing.
BAVG is pretty important, then comes the OBP, and then OPS(or SLG)

By the way, sorry for criticizing you.
These boards are for discussion.
I think the most underrated catcher is Brian Schneider.
What do y'all think?