Your Top 10 Players today.

[Bill Burgess]

I'd like to see who the house members think are the top players today. Blend peak/longevity and do the most sensible composites you know how to. Consider all things; offense, defense, running, clubhouse morale, intangibles, whatever, etc.

[Blackout]

1-Albert Pujols
2-Alex Rodriguez
3-Ichiro Suzuki
4-Barry Bonds*
5-Vladimir Guerrero
6-Manny Ramirez
7-David Ortiz
8-Mark Texiera
9-Todd Helton
10-Gary Sheffield*

[Bill Burgess]

Wow! That was FAST. Some kind of record! Thanks. Good job.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Vlad Guererro
3. Albert Pujols
4. Miguel Cabrera
5. Manny Ramirez
6. Bobby Abreu
7. Mark Teixeira
8. Mguel Tejada
9. Jason Bay
10. Derrek Lee

[538280]

1.Barry Bonds
2.Albert Pujols
3.Vladimir Guerrero
4.Alex Rodriguez
5.Gary Sheffield
6.Brian Giles
7.Derrek Lee
8.Manny Ramirez
9.Jason Bay
10.Morgan Ensberg

[538280]

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Vlad Guererro
3. Albert Pujols
4. Miguel Cabrera
5. Manny Ramirez
6. Bobby Abreu
7. Mark Teixeira
8. Mguel Tejada
9. Jason Bay
10. Derrek Lee

Whoa! No Barry Bonds? That is crazy. I thought you were a fellow Bonds supporter.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by 538280

Whoa! No Barry Bonds? That is crazy. I thought you were a fellow Bonds supporter.

I'm a huge Bonds supporter but I I left him off my list for two reasons:

1) I interpreted the question to mean to who is the best now and going forward. I placed a heavy emphasis age on the next few seasons. I just don't know how much Bonds has left in the tank? He missed his age 41 season. Though he hit well, as I expected, he now has a bum knee. Bonds will be 42 next season .There is the chance that the Bonds of 2001-04 will never return. Asking him to produce at age 42 what he did in his mid to late 30s is asking a lot. Basically, I asked myself a question. "What player would I want TODAY?". Given Bond's age and health, would you take Bonds as he is TODAY? Over Pujols? Teixeira? Cabrera? I just don't know what Bonds has left as a player?

2) I placed a heavey emphasis on up and coming players. As awesome as Bonds has been, I have no doubt that players like Teixiera and Pujols will be better players than Bonds in 2006-08. I do have Clemens but he is still healthy and there has not been a drop in his performance due to age. Plus there is historical precedence for old pitchers to pitch well (Spahn, Niekro, Ryan, Cy Young, etc.)

So I hope those sound like good reasons. I am a HUGE Bonds supporter!!

[538280]

Originally Posted by Honus Wagner Rules

I'm a huge Bonds supporter but I I left him off my list for two reasons:

1) I interpreted the question to mean to who is the best now and going forward. I placed a heavy emphasis age on the next few seasons. I just don't know how much Bonds has left in the tank? He missed his age 41 season. Though he hit well, as I expected, he now has a bum knee. Bonds will be 42 next season .There is the chance that the Bonds of 2001-04 will never return. Asking him to produce at age 42 what he did in his mid to late 30s is asking a lot. Basically, I asked myself a question. "What player would I want TODAY?". Given Bond's age and health, would you take Bonds as he is TODAY? Over Pujols? Teixeira? Cabrera? I just don't know what Bonds has left as a player?

2) I placed a heavey emphasis on up and coming players. As awesome as Bonds has been, I have no doubt that players like Teixiera and Pujols will be better players than Bonds in 2006-08. I do have Clemens but he is still healthy and there has not been a drop in his performance due to age. Plujs there is historical precednce for old pitchers to pitch well (Spahn, Niekro, Ryan, Cy Young, etc.)

So I hope those sound like good reasons. I am a HUGE Bonds supporter!!

Those are good reasons based on your criteria, but I don't think that's what Bill had in mind when he started this thread. I interpreted this as meaning, "Who's the best as of this moment?" Based on that criteria, Bonds is unquestionably the #1 player.

Bill, could you please clear up what exactly you meant here?

[Bill Burgess]

I did intend to mean, who are your greatest 10 players today. How anyone can leave out Barry is beyond my wildest comprehension. He does have a bum knee, and is still the greatest force in the game. But that's just my perception.

And I do want to leave you guys open to exercise your own judgment. But now my mouth is hanging open in shock. Don't make me regret trusting you!

Bill

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by william_burgess@usa.net

I did intend to mean, who are your greatest 10 players today. How anyone can leave out Barry is beyond my wildest comprehension. He does have a bum knee, and is still the greatest force in the game. But that's just my perception.

And I do want to leave you guys open to exercise your own judgment. But now my mouth is hanging open in shock. Don't make me regret trusting you!

Bill

Bond was the greatest force in the game year in and year from 1990-2004. But, Bill, Bonds has just 42 ABs in 2005. How can we say for sure he is still the best if he's only had 42 ABs? He still may be. We just don't know. You know full well that even the greatest hitters lose it around 40-42 years of age. Right now, Bonds simply cannot run and he can barely play the field. His knee will need some serious healing over the offseason. However if he comes out like gang busters in 2006 then I will gladly put him on my list.

[STLCards2]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Albert Pujols
3. Vlad Guerrero
4. Barry Bonds
5. Bobby Abreau
6. Miguel Cabrera
7. Manny Ramirez
8. Miguel Tejada
9. Mark Teixeira
10. David Ortiz

[Bill Burgess]

My 10 Best Current All-Around Players:

1. Barry Bonds
2. Alexander Rodriguez
3. Ivan Rodriguez
4. Ichiro Suzuki
5. Ken Griffey, Jr.
6. Albert Pujols
7. Vladimir Guerrero
8. Carlos Beltran
9. Jim Edmonds
10. Manny Ramirez

Honorable Mentions:
Tori Hunter, Todd Helton, Larry Walker, Alfonso Soriano, Eric Chavez, Derek Jeter, Miguel Cabrera, Bobby Abreu, Mark Teixeira, Miguel Tejada, Jeff Bagwell, Craig Biggio, Carlos Delgado, Omar Vizquel.

[Joltin' Joe]

1. Alex Rodriguez
2. Barry Bonds*
3. Albert Pujols
4. Ichiro Suzuki
5. Vladimir Guerrero
6. Ivan Rodriguez
7. Manny Ramirez
8. Miguel Tejada
9. David Ortiz
10. Bobby Abreu

[Ubiquitous]

Albert Pujols
Lance Berkman
Alex Rodriguez
Vladimir Guerrero
Manny Ramirez
Carlos Delgado
Miguel Cabrera
Andruw Jones
Jim Edmonds
Barry Bonds

[TonyK]

Four of you left off David Ortiz. Whose timely hits have won more games for his team this year than Big Papi? I don't buy the argument that he can't be considered for the MVP or a Top Ten list. When it counted during the 2004 WS his quick throw to 3B caught a key St. Louis baserunner. His intangibles, the fact he is the one guy I want up for me in the 9th inning of a tie game, plus his 147 RBI's should put him on the list over Manny and others.

[leecemark]

--Wouldn't this thread be better suited for current events?

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by TonyK

Four of you left off David Ortiz. Whose timely hits have won more games for his team this year than Big Papi? I don't buy the argument that he can't be considered for the MVP or a Top Ten list. When it counted during the 2004 WS his quick throw to 3B caught a key St. Louis baserunner. His intangibles, the fact he is the one guy I want up for me in the 9th inning of a tie game, plus his 147 RBI's should put him on the list over Manny and others.

Timely? I think any hit in any game that scores runs is timely. Derrek Lee has had plenty of "timely" hits, Andruw Jones has had plenty of "timely" hits this year.

[TonyK]

Plenty = How Many?

How many game winners?

[Sirmudgeon]

This is a great thread and in the appropriate place, as this is where history is made, with the affection or approbrium of your contemporaries. Opinions do matter in the greater scheme of things. OK, for the here and now and maybe next year, who would I want, right now, for my team next year?

1. Barely Coherent Bonds- the epitome of "jerked another out of the playing field", in every sense of the word.
2. A-Rod- day in, day out, the gold standard.
3. Pujols the Repeater- 590 AB, .330/40/120, five years and running. Plus, he's learning... kind of like those bloody velociraptors...
4. Vlad the Impaler- pedal to the metal, great nickname, fun to watch just walking around the ballpark.
5. Big Papi- Mr. Clutch, why does anyone pitch to this guy?
6. The Big Unit- still, in his 40s, the Scary Thing in the Closet.
7. Teixera of Texas- he can pound it, for the long haul.
8. Johan the Waltzing Santana- man can that guy pitch.
9. The D-Train- he throws, he hits, he wears his cap silly, he all fun.
10. Mike Sweeney- who else could do what he has, in KC, the never-ever land for baseball?

HM Clemens for the grit, Rivera for the incandescence, Manny Being Manny for the unpredictability, Jeter for being Mr. Baseball, Cabrera but lose the attitude, Rich Harden and Harder, Jeff Kent the Rent-a-Stud, Ichiro for Grace Under Pressure, Andruw for the spelling of his name and everything else he does with aplomb, HeltonBerkman (the same guy, I'm almost convinced), and The Full Miggy, 'cause you get all of him, every night.

Apologies if I missed some obviousities in this quickie, these are just guys I always follow in the boxes.

And no, no Sheffield. Remember Rain Man? Well, Sheffield is more like a jerk savant (yeah, so's Barry, but he's way better than Can't Field Sheffield).

[Bill Burgess]

Perhaps I should have been more specific. I had intended to mean, Your Top 10 All-Around Position Players. No pitchers. I have another thread for them.

Sorry for my inprecision. My fault. Error on Burgess, again. For the 100th time.

Bill Burgess

1. Barry Bonds
2. Alex Rodriguez
3. Albert Pujols
4. Vlad GUerrero
5. Manny Ramirez
6. Todd Helton
7. David Ortiz
8. Bobby Abreu
9. Gary Sheffield
10. Mark Texeira
JUST missed the top 10: Michael Young, Miguel Tejada, Derek Jeter, Carlos Beltran, Derrek Lee, Miguel Cabrerea, Jason Giambi, Brian Giles, Andruw Jones

[Sirmudgeon]

See what I get for hurrying. Take out the pitchers, sub Tejada, Jeter, and HeltonBerkman. Still no Sheffield.

How 'bout a thread of "10 guys I'd most like to see on the other team, if my pitching staff was Don Newcombe, Gaylord Perry, Nolan Ryan, Randy Johnson, Sal Maglie, and three other He Hate Me pitchers of your choice". It begets the question, if you hit ten guys in a row, are the runs earned?

[Ubiquitous]

Originally Posted by TonyK

Plenty = How Many?

How many game winners?

How many games have each of them had more RBI's then the opposition? Just scanning the games I see plenty.

[Baseball Guru]

1. Barry Bonds
2. Albert Pujols
3. Alex Rodriguez
4. Vlad Guerrero
5. Manny Ramirez
6. David Ortiz
7. Miguel Cabrera
8. Bobby Abreu
9. Gary Sheffield
10. Andruw Jones

[Bill Burgess]

Originally Posted by leecemark

--Wouldn't this thread be better suited for current events?

Mark,

Excuse me if I am remembering this wrong, but weren't you the person who told me, when I suggested certain discussions were better conducted in the stat dept., "to relax, take it easy, and go with the flow"? I kind of remember it may have been you, but I'm sorry if I'm mistaken.

But even if I am mistaken, "relax, take it easy, try going with the flow." You might even have some fun.

Bill