Who are the very best 5-tool players of 2005?

[Mattingly]

The 5 tools are:

1. Hit for power
2. Hit for average
3. Can steal bases
4. Can play defense well
5. Has a strong arm

They're the total players in baseball who aren't just DH types of sluggers with no glove, or slick-fielding, no-hit types. They can do everything and do it all. If they've got good overall baserunning skills, in addition to the thefts, that's definitely a bonus.

So far, I'm thinking Vladimir Guerrero and Alex Rodriguez. Any others?

Thx.

[Perseas]

Jeff Francoer

[Imapotato]

Vlad Guerrero and Albert Pujos

Alex? C'mon Mattingly!!!

He is not the best baserunner (I bet 90% of his steals are those what do you call it defensive something or other), not as good defensively as he is touted and his normal BA is just above .300 and is going down

He can hit for power at an above average rate of contact, and doesn't walk 120 plus times, which I like, but he K's 125 plus...which isn't as good as Pujos and his less then 70

[Mattingly]

Okay then, he has 4 tools. (SHEESH)

*Meets Mr Taterhead by the elevator and bonks him upside the noggin once*

[Imapotato]

You and your Yankee bias :P


See, I didn't mention Abreu...who many tout as 5 tool

I am sure Mr. Abreu has all 5 tools, he just doesn't care to use 3 of them

[SoxSon]

Originally Posted by Imapotato

You and your Yankee bias :P


See, I didn't mention Abreu...who many tout as 5 tool

I am sure Mr. Abreu has all 5 tools, he just doesn't care to use 3 of them

Speaking of the Phillies, though, what about Chase Utley? He seeme to have all 5 of these tools (though I can't watch him enough to speak on the strength of his arm, I guess).

[RuthMayBond]

I don't know about these guys' defense & arm, but what do you think of

Brian Roberts
Grady Sizemore
Alfonso Soriano
Jason Bay
Derrek Lee
David Wright

[SoxSon]

Also, how about Carl Crawford? Morgan Ensberg (not a lot of basestealing, but a little)?

[Mattingly]

Speaking of Derrek Lee:

Albert Pujols

Both 1Bman have excellent defense in the glove. I'm not sure about their arm, but other than the occasional 3-6-3 or throwing home on a squeeze, I'm not sure that a 1Bman needs a gun. Also not a position where one needs acrobatics to play, unlike SS, 2B, 3B.

[SoxSon]

Originally Posted by Perseas

Jeff Francoer

Francoeur has only stolen one base this season.

[Zito75]

Originally Posted by Perseas

Jeff Francoer

I like him a lot- But can he steal?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by SoxSon

Francoeur has only stolen one base this season.

Has he drawn a walk yet?

Yeah, it was an IBB...

Alex? C'mon Mattingly!!!

He is not the best baserunner (I bet 90% of his steals are those what do you call it defensive something or other), not as good defensively as he is touted and his normal BA is just above .300 and is going down

He can hit for power at an above average rate of contact, and doesn't walk 120 plus times, which I like, but he K's 125 plus...which isn't as good as Pujos and his less then 70

You must be kidding. I had to read your post twice to make sure you weren't. A-rod is the ultimate 5 tool player. Which member of the 40-40 club didn't take steroids? Right now, he's 319/418/602 (is .319 ba above average enough for you??) And remember, his natural position is a SS, where he's great defensively. A good defensive 1b (Pujols) is meaningless; the difference between the best 1b and worst 1b in the league is maybe 4 runs a year (I laugh out loud when people say Pujols is great defensively, because he's playing FIRST BASE, which is just a joke) For SS, it's maybe 40 runs a year. And A-rod's arm is an absolute gun... Remember, he just moved to 3b, and he's been playing the position fantastic the past few months. And the K's don't matter. It really doesn't matter how you make the outs, it matters how many outs you make.

Keep this in mind. At the age of 30, A-rod has more hits than Rose did, mroe homers than Aaron did, and more stolen bases than Henderson did. Let's see Pujols try play any other defensive position besides 1B, or steal 40 bases in a year. When was the last time a shortstop or 3b could be considered the best offensive player in the game?? Honus Wagner, 100 years ago, maybe?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by darkplague17

Yeah, it was an IBB...



You must be kidding. I had to read your post twice to make sure you weren't. A-rod is the ultimate 5 tool player. Which member of the 40-40 club didn't take steroids? Right now, he's 319/418/602 (is .319 ba above average enough for you??) And remember, his natural position is a SS, where he's great defensively. A good defensive 1b (Pujols) is meaningless; the difference between the best 1b and worst 1b in the league is maybe 4 runs a year (I laugh out loud when people say Pujols is great defensively, because he's playing FIRST BASE, which is just a joke) For SS, it's maybe 40 runs a year. And A-rod's arm is an absolute gun... Remember, he just moved to 3b, and he's been playing the position fantastic the past few months. And the K's don't matter. It really doesn't matter how you make the outs, it matters how many outs you make.

Keep this in mind. At the age of 30, A-rod has more hits than Rose did, mroe homers than Aaron did, and more stolen bases than Henderson did. Let's see Pujols try play any other defensive position besides 1B, or steal 40 bases in a year. When was the last time a shortstop or 3b could be considered the best offensive player in the game?? Honus Wagner, 100 years ago, maybe?

I think you mean runs scored and not stolen bases, right? Through age 30 Rickey had 871 SB. As of today A-Rod a "little" less than 871 SBs. He has 217, or 654 less than Rickey.

Through age 30 Rickey had 1171 runs and A-Rod already has 1210 runs as of today. Wow. A-Rod can potentially break the all-time record is HRs, RBI, runs, total bases, and perhaps the doubles record.

[RuthMayBond]

Originally Posted by darkplague17

When was the last time a shortstop or 3b could be considered the best offensive player in the game?? Honus Wagner, 100 years ago, maybe?

Caminiti in 1996

[rockin500]

francouer just walked unintentionally for the first time this afternoon. of course, prior hasnt had much control today, so i guess i shouldnt be shocked.

[laxplayer81217]

David Wright has power, average, good mobility, great defense, and a decent arm, so my vote is for him

[Astro]

Originally Posted by darkplague17

A good defensive 1b (Pujols) is meaningless

Really?

You can have fun playing Frank Thomas at 1b

[SoxSon]

Originally Posted by Astro

Really?

You can have fun playing Frank Thomas at 1b

Good point, Astro.
The Sox feel the difference between Millar at first and Olerud, that's for sure.

[SoxSon]

Originally Posted by darkplague17

You must be kidding. I had to read your post twice to make sure you weren't. A-rod is the ultimate 5 tool player.

I agree, darkplague17...like Mattingly, the first two that came to my mind were Guerrero and ARod.

[Astro]

Bobby Abreu is the best in my mind

With A-Rod and Vlady coming in at #2 and #3, they just dont steal enough bases to be considered the best in my mind

[cklennon]

Francoeur can steal and has a few times (once? a few? don't really know off the top of my head) but the reason he hasn't gotten more steals is mostly due to the fact that he usually hits low in the Braves lineup and therefore the guys behind him are hardly "RBI" guys so stealing a 5,6 or 7-spot hitter is usually a pretty aggressive move, and Bobby Cox is usually pretty conservative when it comes to baserunning unless we're talking about Furcal...

He is a great 5-tool player IMO. He has great speed and eventually that will translate into SB in my opinion but you can see his speed in the many times he's advanced from 1st to 3rd on outfield singles, 1st to Home on gappers, etc. He's a very quick player.

[Francoeurstein]

Carlos Beltran DUH!!!!

[SoxSon]

Originally Posted by HankAaron86

Carlos Beltran DUH!!!!

You can't call .267 at this point in the season "hitting for average." Last year was even worse, I think (without looking it up).

[SoxSon]

Originally Posted by Astro

Bobby Abreu is the best in my mind

With A-Rod and Vlady coming in at #2 and #3, they just dont steal enough bases to be considered the best in my mind

You know, you might be right. Abreu has never gotten the respect he deserves, that's for sure.