Looking back on 2005, 20 years from now...

[Astro]

What will be the most remembered event of the 2005 season, while the season is not over yet there have been many big events already. From Rafael Palmeiro getting busted for steroids, to the impressive rookie debuts of many players, 2005 has been a roller-coaster ride for many fans... Here are just a few things to consider:

• Rafael Palmeiro's 10-Game Suspension for testing positive for steroids
• Yankee's struggles with a payroll over 200 million
• Impressive rookie debuts by future stars such as Felix Hernandez, Zach Duke, Justin Verlander, Huston Street and many more
• The large amount of players that are still testing positive for steroids, including one minor leaguer who has tested positive 3 times already
• Baltimore Orioles' impressive first half, staying in 1st over 2 teams with payrolls over 400 million combined
• Lack of deadline deals that could mean the doormats are actually keeping their good players, leading to more competitive balance
• The horrible showing of the Kansas City Royals and Colorado Rockies
• The great story of the Montreal Expos moving to Washington and staying in 1st a good part of the season

There are many more, feel free to add some yourself... I'm going to try and stay on a positive note and hope that this year's rookie batch will produce many superstars... instead of the obvious choice of Raffy

[BristolBoy]

I get the feeling this'll go down as the official Year 1 of The Removal Of Steroids From Baseball years.

[abolishthedh]

You are correct, Astro, we need to be positive about this year and the riddance of steroids. I think its a very positive thing for users to be 'outed' by their health problems and/or their raw numbers. Here are 6 players who I think have been outed:

1. Jim Thome-- (back problems which are very similar to Canseco's)
2. Mike Lowell-- 6 homers and 51 BI in 350+ at bats?
3. Lance Berkman
4. Adrian Beltre
5. Brian Giles
6. Todd Helton

If these guys were users like I think they've been, then let them crash and burn. Its a very positive thing because it sets an example, especially when we fans take the time to point it out. Teenagers will be less likely to do the same.

[sschirmer]

I can't imagine Berkman and Helton were juicing, but what do I know?

[BoofBonser26]

I HOPE that Roger Clemen's season goes down as (one of) the best in modern baseball, but I don't know if he'll get enough wins for people to bother to look at it in 20 years. Do you realize if he had any run support it's not that absurd of a possibility for him to have 20 wins already?

[rudy]

Originally Posted by sschirmer

I can't imagine Berkman and Helton were juicing, but what do I know?

I was thinking the same thing about Berkman. He just seems like a guy who wouldn't do roids.

I think the whole steroid issue will be remembered the most about this year, and I don't think anything else will even be a close second. And it shouldn't. Lots of rookies emerge each year, although admittedly there are a lot this year who are doing amazing, and people have good years, exceptional ones, almost every year.....but things like teh whole steroid issue don't come about very often, and as such, it will probably be what is remembered most.

I predict that by 2025, the Major League Players Association will have been sued by several former players who will be suffering very serious health problems due to steroid use. They will sue the PA for being slow in agreeing to steroid testing and thus not protecting its membership.

[buckthis]

Originally Posted by rudy

I was thinking the same thing about Berkman. He just seems like a guy who wouldn't do roids.

How many here figured Alex Sanchez used?

I'm not singling you out, Rudy, but to believe that a certain player would not do steroids is just that, a belief. And your belief is probably based on the same thing we all base our beliefs on about who's dirty and who's clean: common public perception ( unless you happen to know the guy ). There is no way knowing who used and who did not except for test results.

Because of the general public's perception of things, if someone mentioned Griffey, most fans would say "no way". Same with Pujols. But then there are other players who would get "yeah, positively he's using" if their names came up. All because of a reputation or perception.

Rudy, you said Berkman "just seems like a guy who wouldn't do 'roids". So I take that to mean you are going on (perceived) personality and not on physical appearance or 2005 perfromance.

[Blackout]

Originally Posted by buckthis

How many here figured Alex Sanchez used?

I'm not singling you out, Rudy, but to believe that a certain player would not do steroids is just that, a belief. And your belief is probably based on the same thing we all base our beliefs on about who's dirty and who's clean: common public perception ( unless you happen to know the guy ). There is no way knowing who used and who did not except for test results.

Because of the general public's perception of things, if someone mentioned Griffey, most fans would say "no way". Same with Pujols. But then there are other players who would get "yeah, positively he's using" if their names came up. All because of a reputation or perception.

Rudy, you said Berkman "just seems like a guy who wouldn't do 'roids". So I take that to mean you are going on (perceived) personality and not on physical appearance or 2005 perfromance.

how many here know who the hell Alex Sanchez was?

[rudy]

Originally Posted by buckthis

How many here figured Alex Sanchez used?

I'm not singling you out, Rudy, but to believe that a certain player would not do steroids is just that, a belief. And your belief is probably based on the same thing we all base our beliefs on about who's dirty and who's clean: common public perception ( unless you happen to know the guy ). There is no way knowing who used and who did not except for test results.

Because of the general public's perception of things, if someone mentioned Griffey, most fans would say "no way". Same with Pujols. But then there are other players who would get "yeah, positively he's using" if their names came up. All because of a reputation or perception.

Rudy, you said Berkman "just seems like a guy who wouldn't do 'roids". So I take that to mean you are going on (perceived) personality and not on physical appearance or 2005 perfromance.

You're absolutley right. I base my assumption on nothing other than how I perceive him to be. I don't contend to base it on anything else, nor did I mean to give the impression that I was. Lance just seems like a guy who is all natural; just goes out there and has fun, and loves playing the game. A guy who would wear his cowboy boots while playing if he could. A guy who is just good at what he does, and wouldn't need, or want, to take steroids. At least that's how I've always perceived him, and I guess thats why I have this opinion of him.

You are also right about Griffey---I don't think he has used them either. And again, probably for some of the same reasons as Berkman, aside from the cowboy boots.

But ya, it is just a belief, and I'm fully aware of that. That's why I'm not calling someone wrong for accusing him of using steroids; rather I'm just stating my opinion that I don't think he does....

[Steve Jeltz]

In 2025, nobody will care about what happened in baseball in 2005 because baseball will be what soccer used to be in this country. A sport with very few fans.

[NickG]

Originally Posted by Steve Jeltz

In 2025, nobody will care about what happened in baseball in 2005 because baseball will be what soccer used to be in this country. A sport with very few fans.

Justify this.

Originally Posted by Steve Jeltz

In 2025, nobody will care about what happened in baseball in 2005 because baseball will be what soccer used to be in this country. A sport with very few fans.

I agree with this. The game is one work stoppage away from irrelevency. Also, by 2025 the most hard-core fans will be guys in their 60s and 70s. To attract younger fans, the game will have to make major changes like adding some extreeme elements of some kind and probably have a post-season closer to the NBA than what it has now. If it stays the same as it is right now (which is an inferior product compared to 30 years ago) very few kids today will follow it in the future. I think the majority of kids who are forced to play youth baseball by their parents will drop the game as soon as they can. I think the same will happen with kids who actually like to play the game, but are turned off by crazy ultr-competitive parents.

The professionalism of todays athletes stink. I shudder to think how it will be twenty years from now.

[Astro]

Originally Posted by wamby

I think the majority of kids who are forced to play youth baseball by their parents will drop the game as soon as they can. I think the same will happen with kids who actually like to play the game, but are turned off by crazy ultr-competitive parents.

The professionalism of todays athletes stink. I shudder to think how it will be twenty years from now.

My solution to you then is to stop watching baseball now... Sure there are some extremly competitive parents that push their kids to succeed bout that only makes up about 5% of the parents, it just seems like more due to news stories on one psycho parents

Also, do you not know that pretty much EVERY high school has a baseball team, and around 90% of all colleges have a team... your inference is implying that people go from little league to the minors, high schoolers and college students are able to make their own choices on if they want to play baseball or not

You shouldnt buy into everything you see on TV, most parents dont force their kids into playing something they dont want to, nor do high school and college students go work out, condition and try out for a team just to please mommy and daddy

And who can blame half the athletes about not liking the media, when all the media does is follow them around and wait for them to mess up ONCE then plaster it everywhere and convince feeble-minded fans that they're the villain

To Steve: Like soccer used to be? When has soccer ever been a big sport in the US


The point is baseball will always be a big sport, because people want to watch sports and during the summer what else is there to watch?

[Vidor]

Y'all can spare us the prophecies of doom, please, which we've heard for decades, and which never come true.

What I'll look back on is the Cardinals finally winning their tenth World Championship.

[Steve Jeltz]

Originally Posted by Astro

To Steve: Like soccer used to be? When has soccer ever been a big sport in the US

I see more kids, from say age 7 on up playing soccer than baseball in neighborhood parks. The baseball fields are vacant and are only used for organized little league baseball. I never see any pickup baseball games anymore.

[runningshoes]

Originally Posted by wamby

I predict that by 2025, the Major League Players Association will have been sued by several former players who will be suffering very serious health problems due to steroid use. They will sue the PA for being slow in agreeing to steroid testing and thus not protecting its membership.

The stupid protecting the stupid from themselves..interesting.

[runningshoes]

Originally Posted by blackout805

how many here know who the hell Alex Sanchez was?

You'd be surprised what and who we know and what and who we don't know.

In 25 years, we're going to be taking a real hard look at who were actually the best players of this era and in the near future atheletes are going to have to start impressing us again..not only in thier performance, but in the way they treat fans as well. I walked away in '94 and I can do it again. There are more important things in life than watching a bunch of over oversized, steroid packed cry-babies throw a ball. My son throws a ball and when he does it, he smiles at me.

[E.Banks#14]

I must be the last of a dying breed. I'm 14, and I try to play as many pickup games of baseball every summer as I can. If we've only got 4 people, we'll play a doubles derby. If there's just 2 of us, we'll fungo to each other.

I am going the opposite way most people say sports are going. I played soccer since I was five until I was twelve. I played my first season of baseball when I was 13 (I'm still mad at my mom for not signing me up for baseball earlier. (Don't think that I'm really bad either, because I've been the best fielder on every one of my teams)). I love baseball, and in my neighborhood, baseball totally dominates soccer.

Most of the time, we can put together a 3 on 3 game. Pitcher, Left Center, and Right Center. We play pitcher's hand since we don't have enough for a 1B.

I can't imagine summer without baseball.

[runningshoes]

Originally Posted by E.Banks#14

I can't imagine summer without baseball.

And you'll never have to, don't worry about it. You should start teachings your virtues to those around you. The future of baseball in your hands.

[AutographCollector]

Originally Posted by Steve Jeltz

I see more kids, from say age 7 on up playing soccer than baseball in neighborhood parks. The baseball fields are vacant and are only used for organized little league baseball. I never see any pickup baseball games anymore.

What part of the country do you live in? No man's land? I see "pick up games" all the time on my way to work every day at 2:30p.m. The ball fields are jammed with kids playing the game.

Originally Posted by E.Banks#14

I can't imagine summer without baseball.

Smart kid.

Originally Posted by runningshoes53

The stupid protecting the stupid from themselves..interesting.

I think it will be similar to liflelong cigarette smokers who sue tobacco companys.

Originally Posted by AutographCollector

What part of the country do you live in? No man's land? I see "pick up games" all the time on my way to work every day at 2:30p.m. The ball fields are jammed with kids playing the game.



Smart kid.

I haven't seen any kids playing pickup games this summer in either Alabama or Ohio.

[AutographCollector]

Originally Posted by wamby

I haven't seen any kids playing pickup games this summer in either Alabama or Ohio.

Then I suppose that it depends on whether or not the kids are interested in playing or not.

My son at the age of 4 yrs old loves to play catch with me at the park when I get him on my visitation weekends.

Originally Posted by Astro

My solution to you then is to stop watching baseball now... Sure there are some extremly competitive parents that push their kids to succeed bout that only makes up about 5% of the parents, it just seems like more due to news stories on one psycho parents

Also, do you not know that pretty much EVERY high school has a baseball team, and around 90% of all colleges have a team... your inference is implying that people go from little league to the minors, high schoolers and college students are able to make their own choices on if they want to play baseball or not

You shouldnt buy into everything you see on TV, most parents dont force their kids into playing something they dont want to, nor do high school and college students go work out, condition and try out for a team just to please mommy and daddy

And who can blame half the athletes about not liking the media, when all the media does is follow them around and wait for them to mess up ONCE then plaster it everywhere and convince feeble-minded fans that they're the villain

To Steve: Like soccer used to be? When has soccer ever been a big sport in the US


The point is baseball will always be a big sport, because people want to watch sports and during the summer what else is there to watch?

I'm going by what I see both in my community and among my friends etc. I don't see many kids who really like baseball unless they are playing it on some video game system,

As far as the media, I didn't mention them and I don't care about how the media chacterizes certain players. I don't like the unprofessionalism shown by a great many players today.

I haven't gone to a game since April of 2003 and I can't really say I miss it. After the 1981 strike, I didn't return to a ballpark until 1985.

Baseball's best days are behind it. It has a great history but it wouldn't surprise me in 20 years if MLB has achieved NHL status.