Jeff Kent

[CTaka]

Only watched Kent regularly during his days as a Giant, but I think his defense is under-rated. He had a strong arm for a 2B, which added to his value as a cutoff man. His range factor during his years in SF was 12% above league average (and is nearly 11% better than league average for his career) and he was solid in turning the double play.

Offensively, I think he's already done enough to qualify. His career OPS+ of 126 is higher than other 2B HOFers such as Gehringer (124), Frisch (111), Schoendienst (93), Evers (106), McPhee (106), Sandberg (114), Fox (94), Lazzeri (121), Doerr (115), and Herman (112). I may have missed someone, but at first glance, the only 2B's in the Hall that have a higher career OPS+ than Kent is Hornsby (175), Lajoie (150), Collins (141) and Morgan (132); and those four (in some order) are generally considered to be the four best of all time. Granted, his career number will likely further decline as he continues to play as he is in the twilight of his career, but he'd also have an LQ advantage over all the others named (to various degrees) in any head-to-head comparison.

Kent may not be a first ballot guy, but I certainly see him getting inducted at some point and I think he would deserve that honor.

[DoubleX]

What are peoples' thoughts on Jeff Kents chances? He already has the record for most career homeruns by a 2B, and he'll likely finish his career in the 350-400 homerun range; he has an MVP award; and 7 100+ RBI seasons, tied for the most by a 2B.

He obviously is one of the most productive 2B in history, but how much of that has been a product of the Juiced Era? I kind of think that in any era, 350 homeruns by a secondbasemen is impressive.

[dgarza]

He has a good chance, but he'll probably have to have 2-3 more good years to be safe.

Yes, he does have 300+ HRs, but playing in his era hurts what that looks like. He was only in the top 10 in his league for HRs once, and never in the top 5. His RBI numbers actually look better than his HR numbers.

[julusnc]

I agee that he has a shot.The next 3-5 years of stats are what shall seal the deal of his hall induction.

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by dgarza

Yes, he does have 300+ HRs, but playing in his era hurts what that looks like. He was only in the top 10 in his league for HRs once, and never in the top 5. His RBI numbers actually look better than his HR numbers.

How many 2B in history have regularly appeared in the top 10 in homeruns? Joe Gordon? Ryne Sandberg? Anyone else? It's just not a position with a whole lot of emphasis on power. The fact that it took only 280 or so homeruns by a player in the juiced era to set the 2B record shows just how unimportant power at 2B has been.

[dgarza]

At this point I see him as an 80-85% HOFer, if that makes any sense to anybody.

[DoubleX]

I think of Sandberg as a much superior player to Kent. Sandberg will most likely get in this year or next, but the fact that he's struggled so much doesn't bode well for Kent, especially since his one claim to fame, home runs, might be seen as tainted by the Juiced era.

[dgarza]

Originally Posted by DoubleX

How many 2B in history have regularly appeared in the top 10 in homeruns? Joe Gordon? Ryne Sandberg? Anyone else?

Maybe Morgan, Lazzeri, Boone, ....

Whitaker also only made the top 10 once

i was putting 300 HRs into juiced context...SSs aren't supposed to hit HRs either...

[dgarza]

If Kent hit 100 HR less, but played in a different era, he might have a slightly better chance, not that he has a bad chance now.

That fact that his numbers look a lot better once he hit SF makes him look uneven as a player also.

[Brad Harris]

Don't forget the man beat Barry Bonds out for an MVP Award!

Likely Hall of Fame material.

[mac195]

I'd put Kent's chances in the 40-50% range. Obviously he'll get a lot of consideration, but many voters will discount his big RBI years somewhat, because he had Bonds on base in front of him. Kent was a late bloomer, and has played in only 1777 games. Also, he isn't known as a great fielder, so he'll be getting in mostly on his bat. He'll need 3 more decent-to-good years to move into the Sandberg/Biggio/Larkin range. At this point I don't know how Kent can rate ahead of guys like Trammell and Whitaker, who haven't gotten many votes.

[Gonzo]

I'd say he has a 75-80% percent chance. Now a days though, I think most players are judged by the number of home runs he hits.

[ElHalo]

Originally Posted by DoubleX

How many 2B in history have regularly appeared in the top 10 in homeruns? Joe Gordon? Ryne Sandberg? Anyone else?

I believe this is everybody who did it more than once, though I could be missing a couple:

Rogers Hornsby (14 times)
Joe Gordon (9)
Nap Lajoie (9)
Bobby Doerr (7)
Ryne Sandberg (5)
Tony Lazerri (4)
Ross Barnes (3)
Charlie Gehringer (3)
Joe Morgan (3)
Bret Boone (2)
Bobby Grich (2)
Alfonso Soriano (2)

Kent is the third best second baseman of his era (after Biggio and Alomar). That's ok, but there's nothing about him that strikes me as particularly impressive, and his rapport with the press certainly won't do him any favors. He seems like a no to me.

[ElHalo]

Another thing:

It seems to me like these guys are mortal locks to make the HoF (counting only active guys with at least ten years in):

Ivan Rodriguez
Mike Piazza
Raphael Palmeiro
Roberto Alomar
Craig Biggio
Derek Jeter
Alex Rodriguez
Barry Bonds
Manny Ramirez
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Sammy Sosa
Greg Maddux
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mariano Rivera

With a few more guys who are very likely to make it. That seems like an awful lot of active players to be making the Hall of Fame. If we start adding in more peripheral guys, like Kent, it will make it the "Hall of Great 1990's Players." I don't know how good of an idea that is.

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by ElHalo

Another thing:

It seems to me like these guys are mortal locks to make the HoF (counting only active guys with at least ten years in):

Ivan Rodriguez
Mike Piazza
Raphael Palmeiro
Roberto Alomar
Craig Biggio
Derek Jeter
Alex Rodriguez
Barry Bonds
Manny Ramirez
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Sammy Sosa
Greg Maddux
Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Pedro Martinez
Mariano Rivera

With a few more guys who are very likely to make it. That seems like an awful lot of active players to be making the Hall of Fame. If we start adding in more peripheral guys, like Kent, it will make it the "Hall of Great 1990's Players." I don't know how good of an idea that is.

That's an excellent point; how much is too much? Your list didn't even include guys like Glavine, Bagwell, and Thomas (I'm particulary shocked that you of all people didn't include Thomas ).

Also, when will Joe Gordon get his due? 9 times in the top 10? Wow. That's impressive for a secondbasemen.

[ElHalo]

Originally Posted by DoubleX

Also, when will Joe Gordon get his due? 9 times in the top 10? Wow. That's impressive for a secondbasemen.

Especially for a guy considered to be on the short list for best defensive 2Bman of all time.

As to Glavine, Thomas, and Bagwell, I considered putting all three on, but I just don't see Glavine as a slam dunk HoF'er (in all honesty, he would be in any other era, but comparing him to Clemens, Johnson, Pedro, and Maddux is just tough on him), people have been tough on Thomas of late for his DH'ing and injury history, so as great as he is, I'd call him a 95% chance rather than a 100% chance right now... and if Thomas isn't on the list, there's no way I can put Bagwell there.

[csh19792001]

Originally Posted by DoubleX

How many 2B in history have regularly appeared in the top 10 in homeruns? Joe Gordon? Ryne Sandberg? Anyone else? It's just not a position with a whole lot of emphasis on power. The fact that it took only 280 or so homeruns by a player in the juiced era to set the 2B record shows just how unimportant power at 2B has been.

Arguably the two greatest second baseman in history were power hitters. Hornsby was in the top 10 in homeruns 14 times, leading twice. Lajoie was in the top 10 nine times, leading once. Lajoie's career OPS+ is 150, Hornsby 175.

[santotohof]

I hope Kent gets in(after Ryno).He has been a run producing machine

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by csh19792001

Arguably the two greatest second baseman in history were power hitters. Hornsby was in the top 10 in homeruns 14 times, leading twice. Lajoie was in the top 10 nine times, leading once. Lajoie's career OPS+ is 150, Hornsby 175.

I was kind of omitting Lajoie from this discussion on account of playing during the dead ball era. Homeruns can't really be put in the same context.

[csh19792001]

Originally Posted by DoubleX

I was kind of omitting Lajoie from this discussion on account of playing during the dead ball era. Homeruns can't really be put in the same context.

I suppose you are right- but I was thinking that top 10 is top 10, and slugging is slugging. Both were premier sluggers and second baseman.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Is Jeft Kent a HoFer?

[Bleacherbee]

If he retired today, without question, no

[Bleacherbee]

I don't like the "no" option.

Where's, "no, he's a solid player and an asset to any team, but not HOF-worthy"

[714 on beer and dogs]

He certainly deserves it now and is doing nothing but adding to it so far this year. He tackles Hornsbys,Lazzerris and Rynos records. I hope he asks Keith Hernandez, who tried his best to sabotage his early career ,to give the speech

[mac195]

He could be... if he can put in two or three more good seasons. His big power numbers will be rightly discounted somewhat, due to the era he has played in. And he'll be competing with Alomar and Biggio for the voters attention.