Wood bats - on which "side" should the ball's impact be?

[danielfromsweden]

Hello everyone!

I play baseball in Sweden and during this years dull indoor preseason my team has opted that we use wood bats to improve hitting. I´ve used them anyway for several years, but now a controversy has arised. No one seems to know for sure how to use the bat properly. The big question is where the ball should impact on the bat for it not to break easily? (grain going down to up) I think it is on the "label" side, so that the ball hits the grain from the side. Some say its the other way around - that the grain lines should be lined up to the impact .. (grains going left to right)

I realize this is difficult for me to explain with my limited english knowledge, but i hope you guys get the general idea of this question!

Thanks,
Daniel

PS. I hope i´m right. DS.

[bbjunkie]

Originally Posted by danielfromsweden

Hello everyone!

I play baseball in Sweden and during this years dull indoor preseason my team has opted that we use wood bats to improve hitting. I´ve used them anyway for several years, but now a controversy has arised. No one seems to know for sure how to use the bat properly. The big question is where the ball should impact on the bat for it not to break easily? (grain going down to up) I think it is on the "label" side, so that the ball hits the grain from the side. Some say its the other way around - that the grain lines should be lined up to the impact .. (grains going left to right)

I realize this is difficult for me to explain with my limited english knowledge, but i hope you guys get the general idea of this question!

Thanks,
Daniel

PS. I hope i´m right. DS.

Hold the bat out in front of you with both hands. The label should be facing you.

[catcher5]

Hey guys
Yep, thatis perfect. What BB said was right, have the label facing you...but do to your lack of english knowledge, or so you said, haha, have the label up!
thats all, its the same as what he said although just in different terms i guess, and I just wanted to say good answer. Clear and to the point!

[danielfromsweden]

Thanks for your answers, however, they do not help very much unless everyones swing is uniform (which they aren't) and i´m still now sure where the ball should impact? Is it on the opposite side of the label ?

Thanks,
Daniel

[catcher5]

Ok
Withthe label being up, just look at the bat. When you're standing, arms out, label up, bring the bat back into your set position at the plate. be sure not to roll the bat in ur hands, if you do, you will switch the position of the bat. With the label being up, you will make contact n the opposite side of the label, being the "sweet spot". That part of the bat is stronger. If you hit the ball on the label, it has a greater chance of breaking because when the label is pressed onto the bat, that area of the bat becomes weak...therefore breaking easly. Be sure to hit on the oppostie side of the label!
Hope that helps more

[danielfromsweden]

Thanks alot! That sorted it out!

Sorry if i sounded irritated in my previous post. It's just that this is a looong standing cause for discussion that i would like to lay to rest.. I hope someone will believe me (or you actually).. Is there any source online or in a book you could quote? Or this actually childishly easy and not written down anyware?

Thanks again,
Daniel

[west coast orange and black]

hey, danny-boy. you ask something that most just take for granted. excellant!
but it is not childishly easy: we all had to learn it. however, this lesson is so elementary that i can not locate a site to link for you. anyone?
...........................
that said:
what has been explained to you about bat labels is true... because the bat manufacturers want to identify for the batters which side has the tightest/strongest grain.

but should ever find youself holding a bat that has not been branded, or a much-used bat and the label has been erased, no ned to panic... because now you know the "hit the ball with the tight grain" principle. have fun!

[Staredge]

I belive it's hit with the lines, not with the flats.

[danielfromsweden]

Thanks for the good advice! However some don't seem to agree as this last post shows. Do I understand correct that by "flat" you mean the label side?

..That's why i feel the need for some "authority" on this, even though I myself see the logic in hitting the label side (or the opposite of it that is)..

/Daniel

[Staredge]

Yes, the oval wood sections. I might be wrong.

Originally Posted by danielfromsweden

Thanks for the good advice! However some don't seem to agree as this last post shows. Do I understand correct that by "flat" you mean the label side?

..That's why i feel the need for some "authority" on this, even though I myself see the logic in hitting the label side (or the opposite of it that is)..

/Daniel

[FlashGordon]

The way I was taught was that at the moment of impact the ball should strike the bat on a spot perpendicular (90 degrees) from the label, with the label on top so that you know for sure where it is in relation to the incoming ball. I had never realized that the label was intentionally pressed so that the ball wouldn't hit the grain dead on. It makes sense though. A ball coming at 80+ mph would certainly be like a very blunt wedge, and when chopping wood one always lines the wedge up with the grain to split it apart.

On a personal note, I had a wooden Louisville Slugger with Hal McRae's name burned into it. It split when I didn't remember to turn the label toward my ear in the set position, hitting it dead on.

[Staredge]

That's the way I understand it. You want to hit the ball with the wood like:

_________
_________
_________ <----------(ball)
_________
_________


Rather than:


|||||||||||
|||||||||||
||||||||||| <-------- (Ball)
|||||||||||
|||||||||||



With the top one, when the bat bends it bends together. The bottom way, the layers could shear apart as it bends with the impact.

Originally Posted by FlashGordon

The way I was taught was that at the moment of impact the ball should strike the bat on a spot perpendicular (90 degrees) from the label, with the label on top so that you know for sure where it is in relation to the incoming ball. I had never realized that the label was intentionally pressed so that the ball wouldn't hit the grain dead on.

[danielfromsweden]

I believe it is the other way around. Just look at the bottom "picture" there are much more wood "behind" the impact. On the top picture there is nothing to support the impact. Think of it like you were to line up 10 people, like they where standing in line. All you had to do is make one fall to break the line up. Where would you push - on the front (or back of the line) or from the side?

The answer is: from the side. If you push the first guy in line the people behind will hold him up, much like the wood does in a bat if you hit it like this:

|||||||||||
|||||||||||
||||||||||| <-------- (Ball)
|||||||||||
|||||||||||

It´s just plain 'ol physics, right?

/Daniel

[FlashGordon]

I might have been wrong in my assumption (I haven't swung a wooden bat in a long time). Here's an image from DicksSportingGoods.com. You'll see that the label is emblazoned parallel to the grain, like this:

label
------
----------
------------- <----BALL
-------------
----------
------


PLATE


For orientation, imagine you are looking at the batter from the opposite batter's box as he swings the bat (note the roundness of the barrell). I'm guessing that there is less flex in the bat this way vs. this:



| |
| | | |
| | | | | | LABEL <---BALL
| | | | | |
| | | |
| |


I'm guessing that the flex of the bat would absorb more of the impact of the ball hitting the label as the layers flex.

[Staredge]

Thats the way I hit. Like I said, I think if you hit it the bottom way, the layers could shear apart with the flex of the bat.

As an aside, I *think* it was Yogi Berra who kept hitting on the wrong side of the bat, so H & B made his bats with the label on the wrong side. Can't remember where I saw the story. I'll have to keep looking.

[bbjunkie]

Originally Posted by danielfromsweden

I believe it is the other way around. Just look at the bottom "picture" there are much more wood "behind" the impact. On the top picture there is nothing to support the impact. Think of it like you were to line up 10 people, like they where standing in line. All you had to do is make one fall to break the line up. Where would you push - on the front (or back of the line) or from the side?

The answer is: from the side. If you push the first guy in line the people behind will hold him up, much like the wood does in a bat if you hit it like this:

|||||||||||
|||||||||||
||||||||||| <-------- (Ball)
|||||||||||
|||||||||||

It´s just plain 'ol physics, right?

/Daniel

If you hold the bat out in front of you with the label facing you using a batter's grip, at the point of contact (back hand palm up, front hand palm down) you will be hitting with the side opposite the label. Not having a wood bat in front of me, I'm not quite sure whether that's the tight grain side or the open grain side.

[wogdoggy]

heres an example even a foreigner can figure out...look at the grain of the bat.look at a telephone book. compare the two.see the similarities? hit the ball on the covers of the phone book ,,not on the sides.same with the bat.

[FlashGordon]

Originally Posted by wogdoggy

heres an example even a foreigner can figure out...look at the grain of the bat.look at a telephone book. compare the two.see the similarities? hit the ball on the covers of the phone book ,,not on the sides.same with the bat.

Maybe a foreigner would have an easier time figuring out what you are saying than I did. I think you are saying the opposite of what most others have been saying here. If you hit the ball with the cover, the book bends and absorbs the impact. If you hit with the spine, the book stays rigid and the ball bounces off. If you look at the picture I posted above, it looks like the label is stamped on what would be the front cover of said telephone book. If the picture is wrong, please let me know. As I said, it's been a while since I've swung a wooden bat.

[wogdoggy]

ok maybe this will help,you want to pound the grain of the bat so it gets closer together,not so it "flares" out.the pages of the phone book are the "grains".youd want to hit it on the cover of the phone book so the pages dont flare out as opposed to on the side of the phone book wheras the pages would seperate.same as with the grain of the bat

[FlashGordon]

That goes with my first posting. I had originally compared it to chopping wood where you use the wedge (here, the ball) to pry apart the grains. But when I went to look at a photo of a bat to show that the label would be emblazoned across the grains, forcing the hitter to meet the ball with the flat part of the outer layer (as you describe), I found that the label was actually across the spot I had assumed would be best for hitting. Take a look at the photo (link is above) and let me know if it is wrong.

[Staredge]

Here's the answers from the pros:

Our bats are branded on the flat part of the grain to help players with this. You should hit our wooden bats with the brand facing up to the sky or down to the ground. With that said using the book you would hit the spine and not the cover.

Sincerely,

Louisville Slugger Customer Service

[FlashGordon]

Originally Posted by Staredge

Here's the answers from the pros:

Our bats are branded on the flat part of the grain to help players with this. You should hit our wooden bats with the brand facing up to the sky or down to the ground. With that said using the book you would hit the spine and not the cover.

Sincerely,

Louisville Slugger Customer Service

Thanks, that means the picture I linked to was accurate and my *original* posting was wrong. Hitting on the flat part of the grain would be like swinging a strut (from a car) and hitting the broadest side. Just like a strut, much of the force from the pitch and the swing of the bat would be absorbed on contact. By contrast, if you were to hit on the narrow edge of the strut, the ball would rocket off.

Another comparison: boat oars and canoe paddles are constructed so they flex very little when rowing. If they flexed you'd have to work at least twice as hard to propel yourself through the water.

[Staredge]

Well, I think it also would cause problems when the bat flexes. The bending of the bat could very well separate those layers, much like when you bend the aforementioned phone book.

[bbjunkie]

Originally Posted by FlashGordon

That goes with my first posting. I had originally compared it to chopping wood where you use the wedge (here, the ball) to pry apart the grains. But when I went to look at a photo of a bat to show that the label would be emblazoned across the grains, forcing the hitter to meet the ball with the flat part of the outer layer (as you describe), I found that the label was actually across the spot I had assumed would be best for hitting. Take a look at the photo (link is above) and let me know if it is wrong.

Now I'm thoroughly confused. The picture you linked to shows how bats are normally labeled. But, as I wrote earlier, if you hold a bat in front of you with the label facing you, and then swing it in the prescribed manner, the side opposite the label will contact the ball. That's the other flat grain side (front of phone book). Yes, there will be more flex, but that may actually apply more force to the ball as the bat springs back. Also, being a long time canoer and kayaker, I checked my paddles. The force is applied to the flat grain side (front of phone book), consistent with my bat theory. In other words, I think Louisville slugger customer service is wrong. Is there something wrong with my understanding?

[Staredge]

I dunno. I'm thinking Louisville Slugger knows a bit about bats.

I see what you're saying though. My bats show some hits off the bottom side as well. Ideally you want to hit it on the edge, although if your wrists twist too much it'll go off the bottom.

As for your paddles: I'm not surprised. They'd need some pretty big trees to get the grain the other way, along with an annoying tendency to split up the middle if you hit something solid with them.