Should Smoltz go in the Hall of Fame?

[Jake]

Although I love the Yankees, I've always been a big John Smoltz fan, and I was arguing with friends yesterday about whether or not Smoltz belongs in the HoF. I say that he does, because he has been dominant both as a starter and as a reliever in the closer role, a feat few pitchers have accomplished.

I submit these stats to you for consideration:

Lifetime era= 3.29
163 career wins.
154 saves.
14 career postseason wins.
Besides Eckersley, I can't think of any other pitchers with >150 wins + >150 saves.

6-time all star.
His strikeouts per innings pitched at 7.95 places him 19th alltime.
Short of an injury plagued season and the year he first came up, Smoltzie has never had an ERA over 4.

Smoltzie has been dominant in the postseason and won a Cy Young during the 90s.

I believe that his stats merit his induction into the Hall of Fame upon his retirement(after waiting 6 years of course).

[toopier]

He really only has 3 HOF caliber years, 2 as a starter, 1 as a reliever.
Thats's not to say that every HOFer always has a HOF year......but......

He is 236 saves below Eck right now

[Brooklyn]

I'd take Smoltz on my team any day, but I don't think he is there yet. Three more good seasons, and I think he'll have a good case. If he stays as a closer and can string together three more seasons of 40+ saves and wind up around 300, he'd be looking real good.

He's also expressed his disire to start again. If he gets his wish and can string together 3 seasons of 15+ wins and get over the 200 win mark, the combined resume would be impressive. And with a few 4-5 seasons as a started, he might be able to put a scare in the 3,000 K mark, but that would have him pitching well into his early 40's, a tugh feat.

He just doesn't have the longevity as either a starter of reliever to make it as one or the other, and his combiend stats don't quite look good enough yet.

[Honest Blues]

First pitcher to both lead his team in wins and saves.Most post-season wins of any pitcher.Yeah I think Smoltzie belongs there eventually.

[cws55]

not quite yet...but after 3 or 4 more years...which im sure he's good for...i thik he'll have the numbers and the intangibles

[Kroxquo]

When Smoltz moved to the bullpen, his stats were remarkably similar to Eckersley's when he made the same move (or had it made for him). I argued then that if Smoltz could put together about 5 or 6 years similar to what Eckersley had done, that he should go in. I think at this point, he's on target, but not there yet.

[J W]

I feel pretty much the same way as several others. See if Smoltz gets to 300 saves first, while maintaining his performance as a closer.

Wouldn't it cement the Braves' case for best rotation ever if Maddux, Glavine and Smoltz make it to the HOF though? How many other teams in history had three HOF pitchers going at once, for several years?

[Eddie Collins]

Not yet, but he is well on his way.

[dgarza]

I would like to think not....but in some ways #s tell me he might with time

[MudvilleMike]

Yes, he should be in the HOF, even if he doesn't have some of the superficial numbers like Wins.

Maddux 16989 batters faced .629 OPS
Smoltz 11066 batters faced .641 OPS
Glavine 15725 batters faced .682 OPS

[micsmith]

After 16 seasons:

Smoltz is 163-121, with 154 saves and 2398 Ks in 2699.2 innings pitched.
Eck was 169-140, with 145 saves and 1938 Ks in 2815.8 innings pitched.

At this stage he looks like he's better than last year's first ballot hall of famer.

[J W]

again, the key is at this stage. As of now, he needs to do more. But the guy really does look like Eckersley.

The big difference there is, Eckersley didn't have anyone as dominant as him when he closed. With the closer's role being more and more defined, and with more people being brought up to be closers, Smoltz has more competition.

Funny though that not only Smoltz, but Eric Gagne began as starters, despite all of them.

[Cougar]

His postseason record is extraordinarily good: 13-4, 4 sv, 2.77 ERA, in 195 innings!

Despite this, I concur with the consensus -- he's not quite there yet. On his way, but needs to do more, either as a starter or a reliever. He needs to hit 200 wins or get about 200 more saves, I'd say. 3000K would help too; realistically, he'd need to start again at least one season successfully to come close.

He's 37. Eck pitched until he was 45. Hard to say if Smoltz can do the same -- he has had much more arm trouble than Eck ever did.

It's revealing that there isn't a truly comparable pitcher out there to him at this point.

[Frank Schilling]

If Smoltzie can put together a few more good seasons as a starter, he would be in the unprecedented position of going from a dominant starter to a dominant closer and possibly to a dominant starter again. John has a terrific work ethic, is in fine shape, seems not to have elbow problems and most of the Braves have acknowledged in the past that he is the best athlete on the Braves. I say he will end up in the HOF when it's all said and done.

[Windy City Fan]

I'm going with the crowd on this one. Smoltz isn't there yet, but he's on his way. His postseason performance may end up being enough for him, even if he doesn't put up another great HOF caliber season. Who can forget John Smoltz dueling Jack Morris in the World Series?

[DoubleX]

I think the key for Smoltz will be to pass 200 wins. 200+ wins coupled with his 3.5 years of extremely dominant closing, followed by a successful return to the rotation, could be enough and certainly makes for a good and unique story/career path among hall of famers. Being that he's only 37 wins away, a couple of good seasons could do it for Smoltz, but who knows with that arm. Right now, I rank Smoltz's Hall of Fame chances roughly equal to Mike Mussina and behind:

Roger Clemens
Randy Johnson
Greg Maddux
Pedro Martinez
Tom Glavine
Mariano Rivera
Curt Schilling
Trevor Hoffman

[BoSox Rule]

...And Pedro Martinez

[julusnc]

I hate to be a real downer about John Smoltz but I feel he will end his career on the disabled list over the next two seasons.

Smoltz was a quality starter until he was seriously injuried and he made quite a successful comeback as a top rated reliever but he is plain stupid.

Stupid because why mess with it if it isnt broken.He now wants to try his hand at being a starter again and I can see him injuring his arm from a full season of stress......maybe a career ending injury.

The Atlanta Braves need starters yes but they need the closer that they have depended on for the last three seasons to be a team leader.

If Smoltz continues as a starter I dont think he has a chance at the Hall of Fame unless he wins 220+ games.It would take 4-5 top quality seasons from Smoltz to achieve this and I dont see it happening.......If Smoltz continues as a top notch reliever for 3-4 seasons with 300+ saves then he will have a plaque in Cooperstown after about 8 years of retirement.

I would blame Bobby Cox if he allows Smoltz to throw away his career.

[DoubleX]

Originally Posted by BoSox Rule

...And Pedro Martinez

Oh yeah, just plum forgot . I'll go back and add him in, thanks.

[Brad Harris]

Returning to a starting role will seriously handicap Smoltz's chances. Had Smoltz elected to remain the closer, and continued to excel in that capacity for another 4 years, I think he'd eventually have been elected. Not now.

[leecemark]

--I agree that returning to starting will probably hurt Smoltz's chances for Cooperstown. I don't know that it isn't the best thing for the Braves though. Kolb should be fine as a closer and while I don't think Smoltz has 60-70 wins left in that arm he should be a high quality starter at least this season. Hopefully, he'll have several 15+ win seasons before his arm falls off. If one of them includes more WS heroics, that should be enough.

[chunk&sloth]

it's iffy, he'd have to have two good season as a starter for me to vote for him and im a huge fan too

[E.Banks#14]

150 W and 150 S: Incredible! Being a dominant starter and closer is very difficult. You put any starter into a closer spot right now and I guarantee he doesn't put up numbers like Smoltzy did.

[WillieMaysHayes]

Originally Posted by Chancellor

Returning to a starting role will seriously handicap Smoltz's chances. Had Smoltz elected to remain the closer, and continued to excel in that capacity for another 4 years, I think he'd eventually have been elected. Not now.

I actually think if he prospers as a starter again, say have a few 15 win seasons, it enhaces his chances (hey,that rhymes).
He would be setting a prescident.

[Roy Hobbs]

Well Smoltz has had said many times that closing left him more tired and with more arm pain than starting ever did. Unless Smoltz is just plain lying I'd say we listen to him, it's his arm and he knows when it's hurting or when it doesn't feel right.

I'm a weightlifter so it makes sense to me. There are a lot of gym-rats who go to the gym every day and do the exact same workout every day. They develop well defined muscles but have *very low* strength levels (basically they have muscles that look good but don't carry a lot of power) and they also are in all the time with pulled muscles or muscular pain.

Muscles just shouldn't be worked out 5 days a week, and I think that's why closing can be so hard, when you have to be out there 5 days a week (as some closers do) it's damn hard on the arm. And plus you can't get into a rhythm when you're a closer. One 7 day period you may go out and close 5 times, another you may only be called on once. So it's definitely a strange situation and it puts your muscles through a lot of stress.