Albert Belle

[pretorius]

I have only been here a few days and this is a second thread. I feel as if I was invited into a home and made two trips to the fridge w/o asking. I am going to hold off on new threads but I am very curious about the hall perspectives of Albert Belle.

To me Albert reaks of Kirby Pucket. W/o question one of the best players in baseball who had a surefire hall career cut short by injury. I do not count attitide as a requisite for the hall. If the hall's goal is to contain the best players who ever played then I do not see how Albert cannot be included.

His power stats are amazing.

[The Commissioner]

Originally Posted by pretorius

I have only been here a few day and this is a second thread. I feel as if I was invited into a home and made two trips to the fridge w/o asking.

Please don't feel that way. You are welcome to ask anything you'd like here and your input is definitely welcome. Don't let the passion that many of our members here possess strike you as abrasiveness. We certainly don't mean to come off that way.

Concerning Belle, this has been discussed several times before, but I have to say, that I certainly wholeheartedly agree with you. Belle definitely had a Hall of Fame career and should eventually go in there. Whether he ever will or not, however, is a completely different matter.

[four tool]

I'm not sure Belle had a hall of fame career, but I'm not sure he didn't either. The 9 consecutive 100+ BIs are maybe enough by themselves to get him him. But if he's in, than Palmiero should be also, same reasons, SL and BI.

[Roody]

I doubt he makes it in.

[Brad Harris]

Originally Posted by four tool

I'm not sure Belle had a hall of fame career, but I'm not sure he didn't either. The 9 consecutive 100+ BIs are maybe enough by themselves to get him him. But if he's in, than Palmiero should be also, same reasons, SL and BI.

That's kind of silly. The one isn't really comparable to the other. Belle was great for half a career (and entirely missed the other half), Palmeiro has been near great for almost twice as long. Palmeiro ought to be a shoo-in. Belle's case merits more consideration. The final analysis:

Belle merits induction.
Palmeiro induction.

The one has little to do with the other.

I don't forsee the same people who flocked towards Puckett's camp doing the same for Belle. They'll be betraying their own prejudices by not doing so.

[tonjes]

didn't albert belle admit to using steroids during his career?

[catcher24]

I agree with Chancellor. Palmeiro, at this point and with the numbers he has put up, has to go in. I think if people look at Belle with an unprejudiced eye, he goes in too. He put up HUGE numbers until he had to quit due to a degenerative disease. He is still the ONLY player in history to get 50 doubles and 50 HR's in the same season. His 162 game average over 12 seasons was 31 2b's; 40 HR's; 130 RBI; 103 runs. Career OPS+: 143 (for comparison - Hank Aaron is at 155). He blows Kirby Puckett away in almost all categories. Kieby was a much nicer man (or so we thought), and Albert was a total jerk, but his numbers are very impressive. He will eventually get my vote for the BBFHOF, but probably not the baseball writers' votes.

[leecemark]

--Was Albert Belle a Hall of Fame quality player - yes.
--Will Albert Belle be elected to the Hall of Fame - no.
--Belle was a great hitter in his prime, but didn't play long enough to hit milestone career numbers. He was one of the best players in the game at his peak, but definately never THE best. He has a legitimate Hall case, but not quite one that says you HAVE to vote for him.
--In regards to the comparison between Belle and Pucket; Belle was the better hitter, but perhaps not as good an all around player. Puckett was a Gold Glove CF, while Belle was an okay LF. More importantly for Belle's election chances, Puckett was one of the best liked players in the game while Albert was probably the least liked.
--I think the chances that the BWAA will elect Albert Belle are extremely slim. He is a likely VC choice when his personality has been largely forgotten and his stats are viewed more objectively.
--As for getting my BBF vote, it depends how deep we go as a group. I think he is roughly equivilent to Jim Rice. There are alot of LF between the Musial/Williams/Yaz/Simmons group we have elected and the Belle/Rice class. If we eventually get down to actual Hall standards he'll get my vote. If we remain more exclusive, he won't. Puckett ranks much higher on my CF list than Belle on my LF list and will get my vote either way, so I guess I couldn't get too upset if the BWAA goes the same way.

[DoubleX]

He was surly, crude, and truculent with the media, but after Bonds, Griffey, and maybe Frank Thomas, Belle was the best player of the 90's, and would still be pounding away if not for his debilitating hip. Will he make it to the Hall, or will his off-the-field antics obscure his great career on the field? Even if that isn't the case, did he do enough to even merit Hall status?

[dgarza]

HOF merit? - Yes, I think so in most ways
will he make it? - if he does, it will be an up-hill battle, probably via VC

if he does make it, can it read "Joey"? Pretty please?

[abacab]

The Hall of Fame can induct him alongside Dick Allen.

They'll set the record for "poorest attendance ever at a Hall of Fame induction ceremony."

[santotohof]

I did a similar post some months ago.Like him or not for his career he is right at the top. Over a ten year period he rivals Foxx,Gherig and company. I love Richie Allen( I liked him better before he became a Dick) and think he should be in as well but if he gets in he should be holding the door for "Joey"

[The Commissioner]

He certainly deserves to be in there, but I can't see the writers voting him in anytime soon.

[micsmith]

Why has the official Hall of Fame website let off Albert Belle as a future eligible inductee? He's got to be one of the top players eligible for the next election. Or maybe he's not eligible and that's why he's not listed on their website?

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho..._elections.htm

[Captain Cold Nose]

Originally Posted by micsmith

Why has the official Hall of Fame website let off Albert Belle as a future eligible inductee? He's got to be one of the top players eligible for the next election. Or maybe he's not eligible and that's why he's not listed on their website?

http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/ho..._elections.htm

Good question. Probably an oversight on the webmaster's behalf. Did you ask them?

[julusnc]

Looking over Albert's numbers he and Dick Allen were almost the same player.

IMHO Belle and Allen should one day be inducted into the Baseball Hall of Fame but Allen should get the edge considering the era and position he played.

More Thoughts?

[RuthMayBond]

Allen had a higher OPS+ over more plate apps. He should go before Joey

[micsmith]

I did not ask why Belle was left off.

[Captain Cold Nose]

That's ok. I did.

[mac195]

WARP3 shows them (Belle and Allen) to be about the same career value. Win Shares likes Allen much better. In fact, judging by win shares per plate apperance, Dick Allen is an all-time great. The only post integration players ahead of him are Mantle, Williams, Bonds, Mays and Musial.

[julusnc]

Shame Dick Allen could not have been with better teams and been in a better frame of mind during his playing career.

[dreifort]

If Albert Belle gets in the Hall...it's a sham!

WTF is Gil Hodges!?! ...and he was f'n loyal to his team, no demands for privacy from the media or more money. And his career stats are better than Belle.

..and FYI, a player has to be out of the league 5 yrs to be able to get on the ballot, correct? technically, he's still on the Orioles roster until this yr.

[julusnc]

I have to disagree Belle was a better player than Hodges.

Belle has been retired since 2000.

[Aegis]

Yeah...I'm no fan of Belle, but Hodges doesn't really stack up to him stat-wise, other than strikeout rate. All Hodges ever led the league in was games played on two occasions. Belle led in HR once, RBI thrice, and slugging twice.

[julusnc]

Dont get me wrong I liked Gil Hodges as much as any Dodgers fan.

Hodges played for 18 seasons.Belle played for 12 seasons.