Sandberg or Biggio

[jrappaport]

Who is the better OVERALL player? from fielding to hitting to team player, to hall of fame potential...

I am having a loud discusion with a friend, and even though I live in Houston, I still think Ryan was better overall. 2 fewer season up until now, and better numbers...

Thanks gang,

Joey

[MikeCameronFAN]

Sounds like a great argument - but I'm taking Biggio because you have to consider that not only was Biggio a great 2B, but he also came up as a catcher and is now out in CF - 2 of the toughest positions in baseball!

And it's not like *Ryne* was that much of a better hitter. Here is a side by side comparision...

-------------G-----H---2B---3B--HR---SB--AVG--OBP--SLG---FLD--RC

Sandberg: 2124--2386--403--76--282--344--.285--.344--.452--.989--1311

Biggio: ---2253--2461--517--51--210--389--.287--.375--.432--.986--1350

[jrappaport]

Originally posted by MikeCameronFAN
Sounds like a great argument - but I'm taking Biggio because you have to consider that not only was Biggio a great 2B, but he also came up as a catcher and is now out in CF - 2 of the toughest positions in baseball!

And it's not like *Ryne* was that much of a better hitter. Here is a side by side comparision...

-------------G-----H---2B---3B--HR---SB--AVG--OBP--SLG---FLD--RC

Sandberg: 2124--2386--403--76--282--344--.285--.344--.452--.989--1311

Biggio: ---2253--2461--517--51--210--389--.287--.375--.432--.986--1350

2 things 2 remember, RYNE played in 2 fewer seasons up until this point, and BIGGIO sucked in the post-season. Sandberg EXCELLED!!!

Check out these 2 links:

Biggio's CAREER playoff numbers are:
54 AB, batted .130, 1 RBI, 10 SO, 6 BB, etc. etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...p?Name=HJD&N=Q

Sandberg's CAREER playoff numbers are:
39 AB, batted .385, 7 RBI, 6 SO, 6 BB, etc, etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...Name=BHFED&N=Q

My vote is for Sandberg!!!

[Captain Cold Nose]

Originally posted by jrappaport
2 things 2 remember, RYNE played in 2 fewer seasons up until this point, and BIGGIO sucked in the post-season. Sandberg EXCELLED!!!

Check out these 2 links:

Biggio's CAREER playoff numbers are:
54 AB, batted .130, 1 RBI, 10 SO, 6 BB, etc. etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...p?Name=HJD&N=Q

Sandberg's CAREER playoff numbers are:
39 AB, batted .385, 7 RBI, 6 SO, 6 BB, etc, etc. http://www.sports-wired.com/players/...Name=BHFED&N=Q

My vote is for Sandberg!!!

Post-season performance is hardly an indicator of greatness. Ted Williams, Ty Cobb, and up until a couple years ago, Barry Bonds all struggled in post-season play.

Is Lou Brock a better player because he played so well in the World Series?

I give a very slight edge to Sandberg, because he was such a dominant player at his position. Biggio does many things very well, and it's close. The transition from catcher to second to center looks good on his resume.

[Designated Fielder]

Sandberg, and this comes from a Cardinal fan. Sandberg won a MVP award, and he was the best secondbase man in baseball for a decade. I rank him above Biggio and Alomar. He should be in the Hall of Fame right now.

In some ways, the Cubs missed used Sandberg by most often batting him second. He could have had more RBIs in a different part of the order.

[Eddie Collins]

how much better was ryno defensively?

[yankees2004]

I'd pick Sandberg. That said, where does Alomar rate in this discussion?

[Cougar]

One vote for Sandberg; no slight on Biggio.

[depstein]

I as well think Alomar vs. Sanderg is a better comparison. Relatively quietly, we may arguably have seen the two best all-around second basemen in history in the last 20 years (I have no idea what kind of defense guys like Hornsby and Lajoie played). The power and runs scored numbers were about equal, Alomar had better avg, obp, slugging and base stealing, but Ryno played in more of a pitchers era and he has the 1984 MVP. Both were among the best defensive 2bmen ever as. There careers are actually very similar.

[Designated Fielder]

Both Sandberg and Biggio won gold gloves. Sandberg has been criticized for a lack of range. He didn't make errors, but he didn't get to balls that other secondbasemen did.

[nightal]

Originally posted by yankees2004
I'd pick Sandberg. That said, where does Alomar rate in this discussion?

A much better spitter!

[hammy]

IMO, there are six 1977-current middle infielders who deserve to eventually be in the HOF, not including Ozzie Smith who is already in. In order of how I rate them, here they are....

1) Cal Ripken Jr.
2) Roberto Alomar
3) Ryne Sandberg
4) Barry Larkin
5) Craig Biggio
6) Alan Trammell

If you look at Alomar's numbers and accomplishments and say he's a HOF'er, you have to allow for Larkin. Their career stats are almost identical when broken down to a level AB comparison. Trammell gets lost in these debates, but he compares well to the rest of the group.

[J W]

Very tough call on this one... neither Alomar nor Biggio are done yet, remember that, but neither of them look like they're going to return to dominance anytime soon.

If Alomar gets back on track in Arizona and picks up his 3000th hit in two years time, he'll have to rank ahead of Sandberg in my book no question. Ryne didn't have that kind of lasting power.

I'm going to take Sandberg ahead of Biggio because I remember him as a slightly more important figure in his timeframe... both have 3 top tens in MVP voting, but Sandberg is 1-4-4, whereas Biggio is 4-5-10. But again he's not finished either; we'll have to see how long he can be a viable major leaguer. I expect he will never have another good season, and will have to hang it up shortly, in which case, he will be a better comparison to Sandberg than Alomar will.

[Brad Harris]

Alomar, Biggio and Sandberg are all equal. I'd give Alomar a slight nod over Biggio, who in turn just edges out Sandberg. It's so close though, I wouldn't bet a dime on that being the correct order.

I would suspect Joe Fan to rank them in this order: Sandberg, Alomar, Biggio.

All three are no-brainer Hall of Famers in my book.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Sandberg's in now, and he should be. Alomar will go, as will Biggio, although the HOF electors have been erratic in voting in second basemen, creating a huge gray area.

Biggio's still in there, still at 2B, still adding to his totals. It's a little unlikely that Biggio will get to 300 HRs; he'll have to pick up his pace this year and play two more years in order to do so. That's going to be hard at his age (40).

I rate Biggio ahead of all of these guys on career value. I give Sandberg a slight nod over Alomar on peak value. Sandberg SHOULD have been the MVP in 1990 over Barry Bonds (although Bonds should have been the MVP over Terry Pendleton in 1991). It should be noted, however, that while Alomar gets negative write-ups for personality issues, he's the only one of these three to play on a champion (twice).

[Cougar]

Never mind Biggio's HRs; he's got 265, and how many other 2b have even 250? Four -- Hornsby, Morgan, Kent, and Ryno.

Biggio's 50-50 at worst for 3000 hits, which makes him a rock-solid lock. It looks like he'll go into next season probably needing 50-75 hits for the milestone.

He's got over 600 doubles, which only 13 guys have done -- all are HOFers except Biggio, Cal Ripken (only a matter of time), and Pete Rose.

He's got the modern HBP record (and will probably catch Hughie Jennings if he plays through 2007).

He's played regularly at C, 2b, CF, and LF, making All-Star teams at C & 2b. (And I thought he got snubbed a bit in 2004; he had a really hot start in CF.)

He's surely one of the most unique players ever; despite the fact that his numbers resemble Alomar's, stylistically, the only guy I can really compare him to is Rose, maybe. Hustling, multi-position scrapper. Pete hit much better for average, of course, and had more longevity (so far), but Biggio is more valuable in the field, is faster on the basepaths, and probably has a little more power.

Above, I said I preferred Sandberg to Biggio (back in 2003). Ryne remains a longtime favorite, but at this point, I would change that preference and select Biggio. I think I'd take Biggio over Alomar too, although that's closer. (I think Biggio probably has the lowest peak.)

[Fuzzy Bear]

What hurt Sandberg in the eyes of many was his sudden decline and retirement in 1994 (ostensibly because of a messy divorce in the offing). Sandberg came back in 1996 and had power, but he lost his ability to hit for average and wasn't the same player as he was before 1994.

This episode not only cut down on Sandberg's career counting totals, it truncated his career, and caused him to go out on a down note, which seems to have been remembered more vividly than his bodacioius seasons, when he was a superstar without a weakness. At his best, Sandberg could do it all---hit, hit for power, run, throw, and field.

[romanos72]

Alomar was a great complementary player, but never carried his team. He was a Scottie Pippen, not a Michael Jordan. Alomar never had 200 hits or 100 walks in a season. 200HR, 1,100 RBIs, and 2,700 hits in 19 years of service (despite no full season in his last 4) may not be enough to get into the hall. Sandberg has an MVP. Sandberg led his team to the playoffs in 1984. Sandberg has the most errorless chances streak at 2nd base. He won an All-Star HR hitting contest. He won a HR crown in 1990. Alomar was a great player, but a hair below 'Berg in comparison.

[Yankwood]

I'll take Sandberg by a healthy margin.

[KCGHOST]

Sandberg isn't near the offensive force as Alomar nor Biggio. He has to make it up on glove and he comes up just a little short of Biggio who is turn is a hair short of Alomar.

Sandberg's MVP was one of the first ESPN promotional MVP's. He had a fine year but he was no Tim Raines.

And I can't even bring myself to discuss the value of winning an ASG HR contest. Good Grief.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Originally Posted by KCGHOST

Sandberg isn't near the offensive force as Alomar nor Biggio. He has to make it up on glove and he comes up just a little short of Biggio who is turn is a hair short of Alomar.

Sandberg's MVP was one of the first ESPN promotional MVP's. He had a fine year but he was no Tim Raines.

And I can't even bring myself to discuss the value of winning an AG HR contest. Good Grief.

Agreed. Sandberg, though a great player, benefitted heavily from playing at Wrigley Field.