Cathedrals

What is happening to our ballparks?
Baseball fields are such a part of the game, that many people go for the atmosphere.
Tiger Stadium is gone.
We have a fight to save Fenway. Soon Mr. S will be trying to move the Bronx Bombers. We have Wrigley, but for how long?
We need a law to protect our parks.

>What is happening to our ballparks?

I agree and disagree with ya.

I hated to see Forbes Field go :'(

But was jumping for joy when Tiger Stadium closed. Plus, some of the "new" ballparks are glorious.

Coors Field and Bank One are both great. Even the new Braves ballpark is a hundred times better than the old one they had...

[TWTCommish]

Hi,

I think that...

1) It's unavoidable.

2) It's not that bad...these great parks will be replaced by other great parks...it just doesn't happen overnight.

Chris Bowyer - Commissioner
www.warningtrack.net

Yes, some of the new ones are good, and I am happy they are modeling them after the old parks, but once they are gone, they are gone.
My Tiger Stadium experience was awesome, and the peeling paint helped with that.
I suppose it is going to happen, so we must just try to avoid the toliet bowl design popular in the 70's

[Kroxquo]

I went to Tiger two years ago just to experience a game there for the first and last time. My best baseball experience ever. It's a crime that that's gone.

I went to Fenway last summer. I know there's the mystique and all, but the place really is decrepit. I'd still hate to see it go.

I have to admit, most of my experience growing up was at the Vet in Philly (yuck) and 3 Rivers In the 'Burgh (yuck again). My Dad still reminiscises about Shibe Park (he never calls it Connie Mack Stadium). There's a lot to be said for retaining tradition. Scary to think that (unless there's a park I'm missing) Candlestick is the third oldest park still in use.

[TWTCommish]

ESPN.com columnist Rob Neyer said that he likes the "new old-fashoined parks"...but that he'd love to see a totally updated, techie park...as in something that had all the gizmos and luxuries you'd expect from something built in the Year 2000...

I second that motion...maybe it wouldn't have that same cozy feel as Jacobs Field or Camden Yards, but it would probably be loaded with perks...cushoined seats, cupholders, things like that. I hope some team has the guts to pass this fad of building vintage parks and use their cash on something state-of-the-art.

Chris Bowyer - Commissioner
http://www.warningtrack.net

[TFAstros00]

Maybe the techie thing would be good, but, having experienced the Astrodome, a former techie thing of the sixties, I'm a little cautious about it. I loved my experiences at Jacobs, Camden, and Arlington, and I feel that the throwback parks are great. As for Wrigley, I agree with Neyer that it will remain standing for years to come, even as other parks get torn down, as a monument to early 20th century baseball.

How about a section in new parks for all of the modern ammeneties ?
There is just something about attending a game in an old park. The way it was intended.

[Kroxquo]

Absolutely right, there is nothing like the feel of the old parks. At Tiger and Fenway you're right on top of the field (literally in the case of the right field upper deck) and it truly is something trying to imagine Ty Cobb or Mickey Cochrane or Al Kaline playing exactly where you're looking. Give me peeling paint over cup holders any time.

The shame of it is that the old ballparks aren't being replaced for the reasons that most people site. Sure some of them are falling apart,but they could easily be rennovated. The reason behind the new ballparks is simply greed. The owners know they can 1) make more money by renting out luxury boxes in new ballparks and 2) they know that they can get new ballparks completely paid for by the taxpayers. If they rennovated the old ballparks they might have to dig into their own pockets. However if they hold cities hostage under the threat of relocating thier franchise, taxpayers will inevitabley shell out the money to keep the team. No local politician will veto a tax hike referendum because who wants to be know as the city councilman that let the (fill in your team here) slip away? Unfotunately the sanctity of these last remaining cathedrals and of the game of baseball itself are often the last thing to be considered.

[Kroxquo]

I hate to keep going back to Tiger Stadium, but it is the perfect example of what you're saying. There was not a thing wrong with that park and now it's gone forever. I could see replacing a place like Municipal in Cleveland with the Jake (even people in Cleveland hated it.) But even a place like the Vet or 3 Rivers or Busch has history behind it. If the Cards ever move, are they taking the spot of McGwire's 62nd to a new stadium like the Braves took Aaron's 715 landing spot?

Lets not even get started with "Naming Rights"
Talk about greed.

Tell me about it. I live in Orlando home of the new "T D Waterhouse Center".(I know its not a baseball stadium but the same principle applies).I mean first we the taxpayers of Orlando shell out $220 million to construct the "Orlando Arena" and then our corrupt and highly incompetent mayor sells the rights with the city itself only taking in a couple of million. My tax dollars didn't go to fund a huge advertising campaign for a major corporation did they? Well, apparrently so!

At least in this example it isn't a venue that has a long tradition behind it. What really gets to me is when they rename stadiums specifically named to honor someone or something with corporate sponsorships. Did you see they're now planning on renaming Lambeau Field?!!! What's next, the WhiteSox playing at "Www.ebay.com Park"? The Red Sox at "Foxnews.net Field"? I realize that it is highly naive to believe that professional sports has ever really been about anything other than pure crass commerce, but there has to be limits. At least try to put on the facade of some scintilla of dignity.

Unfortunately, whether or not a park is torn down isn't up to the government. Besides that, everything eventually wears down after time. Sooner or later, Wrigley will have to be destroyed, just like Tiger Stadium was.

Yeah, but I'm not buying that all these old ballparks are quite as dilapidated as we'd be led to believe. I think these owners are simply seeing huge dollar signs in front of their eyes in the forms of luxury boxes, tax incentives, and parking revenues.Things fall apart, I just have my doubts as to if they are truly falling apart this fast.

I am sure with all of the technology in this world, I am sure someone knows how to rennovate a park

I highly recommend the following book:
Green Cathedrals by Phillip J. Lowry

[Kroxquo]

A friend of mine who worked for ESPN as an intern at the time Old Comiskey closed said he heard several of the guys there talking about the fact that Jerry Reinsdorf made that park sound in a lot worse shape than it really was. The fact was that he simply wanted a new park and neglected maintaining the old one until the city was forced to condemn it.

[Kroxquo]

Absolutely. Definitive work on baseball stadiums.

I don't doubt that for a second. Is there anything that isn't below Reinsdorf?

[webmaster]

Green Cathedrals is the best reference book ever created for ballparks. The problem is finding copies! Last year I got mine and had to bid hard on eBay to get it and paid MORE than what it originally sold for.

The publisher should update the missing parks, correct the mistakes, add color pictures, and re-publish it as softcover and I think they would make a mint.

Are there any other "serious" ballpark reference books that were published long ago?

Where did you sit at Fenway? When I got a chance to go there five years ago I loved it. We sat out in the right field stands and it was great. It practically felt like we were on the field. We even managed to yell stuff to the right fielder and crack him up a couple of times.
You're right about Candlestick (um..er..3com park) being the third oldest park being scary. What's even scarier is that pretty soon Shea Stadium is going to be one of the oldest. Heck, it is one of the oldest right now.

I have a paperback copy.
Lost Ballparks, A Celebration of Baseball's Legendary Fields
By: Lawrence S. Ritter
Another great book
as is
At Fenway by Dan Shaughnssey (sp?)

[Kroxquo]

At the end of the right field line in the lower deck, in the very top row. Pretty much directly opposite across the outfield from the top of the monster. The Mariners were in town for the game so we saw some of the game's greatest current players - Griffey (0 for 4 and an error), Rodriguez (also 0 for 4), and Martinez (showed up late for the game and wasn't inserted until the fifth inning.) Still had a good time.

And the best part is that nowhere in the park do you feel like any player is out of heckling range. That must be why you hear players complain so often about the fans in Boston.