|
|
|
#851
11-07-2009, 12:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
 [/quote]Quote:
I do believe that most who are analyzing the minutia, on this board and others, are standing on Yeager's shoulders when they do it. 
|
|
#852
11-07-2009, 12:49 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#853
11-07-2009, 12:55 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
But we did establish your opinion on this:
[quote] Quote:
Quote:
|
|
#854
11-07-2009, 07:17 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
  Another thing I find ironic from the "hands tell the elbow what to do" crowd.... Many hitters are still lifting the hands as the elbow begins slotting..... Pujols/Harper/Hamilton/BONDS.....and countless others are "lifting" during the slot....... How does anyone "justify" lifting the hands during the slot as support for "the elbow reacting to supination" arguement?........ When I view this clip the elbow is clearly in charge of creating the postion to "allow" supination to occur when it should......and not reacting to an early supination attempt by the hands.....  The mear fact that some hitters display barrel movement WITH the slot ALA HG and many others...........And still others barrel DOESN'T react as quickly to slotting should be proof enough that the ELBOW is doing what it wants regardless of what the hands are doing........ Which is why my barrel moves during the slot..........I'm just one of those kinds of hitters I guess.  This clip should get me in lots of trouble with the "swivel police"........  Oh by the way.....My front shoulder is moving up before Gem's.......So we NOT doing exactly the same thing even though the patterns appear pretty close........  Of course I'm not trying to keep the ball fair either.........There IS no ball......! Can you believe someone even brought up "hey! why is your barrel moving and Pujols isn't!" argument?........ Not a very broad minded person I guess........ Last edited by BoardMember; 11-07-2009 at 07:44 PM.
|
|
#855
11-07-2009, 08:39 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
All he's doing is sitting into foot plant.
__________________
- Hitting Video Clips and Swing Analyses - Pitching Mechanics Analyses and Video Clips
|
|
#856
11-07-2009, 08:47 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
As Bonds' approaches his launch position he internally rotates his rear humerus (notice that Bonds uses a "down & in" loading pattern). As his rear forearm is brought up to approximately the same height as his rear humerus (at his 'launch' position), he simply externally rotates his rear humerus ... and with a built-in sense of getting the forearm vertical (think in terms of passing through the Power-V position downstream) you get the action you see. After you do this enough times it just seems 'natural' and you begin to appreciate the term "live & independent" hands ... although to me it 'feels' more like a "live & independent" forearm/hand.
|
|
#858
11-07-2009, 09:11 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
CS ... I ran experiments this evening with various objectives. Unfortunately the battery died early on and I wasn't able to collect data on swing attempts without supination. What I was able to compare were attempts to force supination near swing initiation ... which for me is just after the rear humerus begins external rotation during the slotting process. I compared this to attempts to hold off forced supination until later in the swing ... where you referenced frame #35. I misread your initial post ... an now see that you said ***NOT*** to force at frame #35. The result was terrible ... which probably doesn't surprise you. There's no question in my mind ... the supination occuring at frame #35 is more of a 'release' than something that is being 'actively forced'. You were spot on correct. Leads me to believe that in the swing you advocate that there is no force applied towards supination anywhere in the swing. I've worked with that in the past ... which was how I've swung for several years. The video didn't record those swings ... so I'll need to repeat and report back. Quote:
 [Edited to add: It was my personal observation when I saw CY demonstrate his swing a year ago, that his spine angle was not 'neutral' throughout his stride, but transitioned more like what you see with Howard or Bonds. That of course was "my opinion", and since it was something I was struggling with at the time, I was focused on this portion of his swing. Personally, I think Bonds is able to have a significant positive move without much forward head movement ... and that is not something I could replicate with the "neutral spine angle" concept. In the GIF below I highlight Bonds' positive move (referencing his belly-button) and forward head move ... he has a significant positive move with little head movement ... which is something I could not duplicate with the requirment of a "neutral spine angle".  Last edited by FiveFrameSwing; 11-07-2009 at 09:34 PM.
|
|
#859
11-07-2009, 09:15 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#861
11-07-2009, 09:49 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
I look forward to seeing you experimental clips........ Both of early "forced supination"......and of non-forced "natural supination" that occurs as a result of keeping the bat on plane........ When can we expect some clips?.......
|
|
#862
11-07-2009, 09:52 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
I don't think I can read everything in this thread. After not posting much in years, it seems everyone is still talking about the same things over and over.
There was a clip earlier of a swing, with the barrel being dumped (if that is politically correct,  )I had similar issues for a long time and when I found some very old swings footage and could see I didn't always have this problem. I linked to all the garbage about the hands discussion, early batspeed, Mankin, etc.,. And I found the cure. And from what I've read I would agree more with what Boardmember has posted on this issue of the back elbow. I also know that a certain person stopped teaching the early batspeed stuff because it was messing up more hitters then it was helping. All in all, the best thing I've seen in this thread is the slo-motion clip posted by 5frames. But, that's just me. Since I haven't been involved in these discussions for a long time it somewhat resembles everyone is speaking a foreign language trying describe a swing to each other. Carry on, keep posting sweet clips like 5frames. 
|
|
#863
11-07-2009, 10:26 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#864
11-07-2009, 10:28 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
|
|
#865
11-07-2009, 10:35 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
Which I didn't bring up in the first place........WrstDude did trying to act "smart".... Just focus in the swivel......... I'm looking forward to both "early supination" and "natural supination" clips...... Here two straight up questions...... Do you believe that a hitter should attempt to supinate at go?..... And do you agree with HYP's demo clip....... Please don't beat around the bush like usual......They are "yes or no" questions....... Unless you're still not sure......... I really want to know your opinion.......
|
|
#866
11-07-2009, 10:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Not that consensus should guide anyone ....
<< Do you believe that a hitter should attempt to supinate at go >> Yes, IMO, the hitter should be attempting to supinate at ‘go’.  << And do you agree with HYP's demo clip....... >> IMO, Hyp’s demo clip was about demonstrating that one can supinate without breaking down the hinge angle … so yes, I agree with Hyp’s demo clip. Last edited by FiveFrameSwing; 11-07-2009 at 11:04 PM.
|
|
#867
11-07-2009, 11:05 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
And by the way......thx for the straight answers....... And you definition of go is?.......I ask so I can know when you believe it should happen....... Last edited by BoardMember; 11-07-2009 at 11:09 PM.
|
|
#868
11-07-2009, 11:11 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Oh and one more thing.....will you please isolate the frame you believe shows the first sign of supination......?
Thx........
|
|
#869
11-07-2009, 11:12 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
Isn't this more the case of the 'connection' that is established? All 'connections' are not created equal of course.
|
|
#870
11-07-2009, 11:32 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
IMO we are talking about me not using a "neutral spine angle" criteria throughout the stride, and applying a force to promote supination shortly after the start of external rotation of the rear humerus. These are differences ... but IMO Yeager covers a lot more material than this. People speak of doing certain things differently than Englishbey, and I don't suggest to them that they've abandoned Englishbey. Ditto for Mankin, Epstein, Peavey, Lau, etc. Yeager's material, IMO, is pretty darn solid.
|
|
#871
11-07-2009, 11:39 PM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
 You don't have to re-read the thread.......Just look at the first 3 frames of this clip...... 
|
|
#872
11-08-2009, 12:08 AM
|
|||||
|
|||||
|
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I don't like your 2nd line on Bonds--- I still see very level shoulders at heel plant-Don't you? and I think your belt-buckle line is influenced by it (bltBckle) moving due to initial hip rotation...even accounting for that, I don't think you have represented the spine angle.. Regardless, the shoulders are level (until slightly later). I went back and checked and all of the lines Yeager drew (on that subject) were all while the foot was in the AIR. I think if you want to dispute Yeager, that is WHEN you should draw your lines... Bonus: look how level Youk's shoulders are here at a point that we all know is after foot plant.... [/quote]Last edited by collegeStar; 11-08-2009 at 12:15 AM.
|
|
#873
11-08-2009, 05:47 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
FFS, this looks like a foul ball here in this clip. What was the outcome here? EL
|
|
#874
11-08-2009, 06:54 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
This, again, is a point I'm constantly trying to make. Same pitch, same speed, same location. Doesn't this pitch appear to be above the waist? I don't believe that Molitor would say that this is his "typical" swing. Even if the results were a HR, I don't think that this is typical. My first impression is that the pitcher is trying to "fist" him.
__________________
Granny said Sonny stick to your guns if you believe in something no matter what. Because it's better to be hated for who you are than to be loved for who you're not. I rule his pathetic life!
|
|
#875
11-08-2009, 07:29 AM
|
||||
|
||||
|
Quote:
|
 |
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | Rate This Thread |
|
|
Linear Mode
