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Thread: REAL average pitching velocities for HSchoolers

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Baseball Love View Post
    Robert threw 80 mph at 12 1/2 years of age. My brother was one of his coaches back then. Stock reached 90 mph at 14 years and clocked at 95 at 16 years of age. He was at USC playing catcher and relief pitcher at 17 years. He just reached 18 years in November.
    I think the thread was about AVERAGE velocity. This kid is clearly NOT average. Anyone who plays DI is above average clearly, a player at USC is at the high end of DI I would argue, and if he is starting as a freshman, well, he's about as high p the amateur ladder as one is ever going to get; certainly NOT average.

    I think the 78-82 estimate is probably accurate.

    Tom

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    First, when having this conversation you have to understand that there's a difference between what you can touch and where you cruise. Most people can throw harder (touch) than they normally do, but have to back off to be effective (e.g. throw strikes). The delta is usually 3-5 MPH.

    Second, here's a swag on national average HS cruising speeds...

    Low 90s = 1 percent
    High 80s = 4 percent
    Low 80s = 15 percent
    High 70s = 40 percent
    Low 70s = 30 percent
    High 60s = 10 percent

    This distribution will vary by region. Also, the lower boundary is kind of artificial. There are lots of guys who CAN throw in the 60s and low 70s, but they aren't pitchers since they aren't effective.

    Finally, one way to judge how fast a guy is throwing is to look at how far they can throw a ball on the fly from the OF. People who can get the ball to Home Plate from deep CF on the fly are probably throwing High 80s to Low 90s.


    chris explain why i can throw a ball 310 feet to 320 in the air,,get on the mound and barely hit 74? lol..if i could only crow hop off the rubber.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by wogdoggy View Post
    chris explain why i can throw a ball 310 feet to 320 in the air,,get on the mound and barely hit 74? lol..if i could only crow hop off the rubber.
    Mechanics from the mound and the momentum you mentioned from the outfield.

  4. #24
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    I am in 10 grade, im 6 foot 1, 220 lbs and i threw last year as a freshman at about 74-76, i have yet to be gunned this year but i am geussing im hitting somewhere around 77-78 consistantly, but i would bet i could touch 80 lacking accuracy though.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bomber Baseball #11 View Post
    I am in 10 grade, im 6 foot 1, 220 lbs and i threw last year as a freshman at about 74-76, i have yet to be gunned this year but i am geussing im hitting somewhere around 77-78 consistantly, but i would bet i could touch 80 lacking accuracy though.
    your a pretty good sized kid,hows your location and offspeed stuff?

  6. #26
    I'm 5'11" 150 and I throw from shortstop 68-73ish and when I pitch its around 65-69 why am I slower off the mound? It's not like I crow-hop from short.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by utility91 View Post
    I'm 5'11" 150 and I throw from shortstop 68-73ish and when I pitch its around 65-69 why am I slower off the mound? It's not like I crow-hop from short.
    well your supposed to get momentum when making your throw from short. And you throw slower off the mound because of the lack of momentum.

  8. #28
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    "Finally, one way to judge how fast a guy is throwing is to look at how far they can throw a ball on the fly from the OF. People who can get the ball to Home Plate from deep CF on the fly are probably throwing High 80s to Low 90s." Chris O'Leary

    Thats not necessarily true. What if the guy is throwing some rainbow from CF to home? Its on the fly, but not really coming in fast.
    I would agree though, that if he is launching a rope from the outfield, the guy has got some heat behind that ball.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by beisbolcrazy22 View Post
    "Finally, one way to judge how fast a guy is throwing is to look at how far they can throw a ball on the fly from the OF. People who can get the ball to Home Plate from deep CF on the fly are probably throwing High 80s to Low 90s." Chris O'Leary

    Thats not necessarily true. What if the guy is throwing some rainbow from CF to home? Its on the fly, but not really coming in fast.
    I would agree though, that if he is launching a rope from the outfield, the guy has got some heat behind that ball.
    This is a valid point.

    There is a difference between a rainbow and a ball that comes on on a line. The flatter the tajectory, the faster you have to throw the ball.
    Just Google my name to find me.

  10. #30
    What's the average velocity of of a high school senior who will go on to play college ball?

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_L View Post
    What's the average velocity of of a high school senior who will go on to play college ball?
    It would have to be broken down to D1 major, D1 mid major, D2, D2 non funded program, D3 with recruiting and D3 with whomever shows up to play because they don't care if they win. There's also max speed and cruising speed.

    If you're talking about D1 majors pitchers would start at 87 with 90+ being what they are really looking for. Lefties can be slower. You'll see D3 pitchers in nothing programs not hitting 80. Quality D3 programs will have pitchers hitting mid 80's. Some will physically mature after beginning at D3 and become hard throwing prospects.

    "D3 with whomever shows up to play because they don't care if they win."

    If you think these don't exist, I know of one who has kept the same coach for sixteen years despite his .400 winning percentage and sixteen consecutive losing seasons. He was hired away from the high school down the road a few exits. I'll bet head coach isn't a full time position at this college.

  12. #32
    If a lefty throws 85, has a good curve, change-up, and control, would he be able to make a good D1 school?

  13. #33
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    Remember this is a recruiting site that will match you with a college. I can't remember the percentage of student/players being place in colleges. Remember there is more to baseball and getting a scholarship than playing ball, if you got good grade this is very good selling point to getting recruited at the college level you are looking for.


    Hope this help,

    drill


    In no way am I affiliated with this org. I happen to run into it on the net one day doing research.




    Here is some info I pulled from
    http://www.ncsasports.org/student%2D...%2Dguidelines/
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    Baseball Recruiting Guidelines
    NCSA Commitments - Jake Jaskowski; University of Delaware; BaseballNCSA Commitments - Greg Pingel; Indian Hills Community College-Ottumwa; BaseballPrinter Friendly Page Division I:

    The typical Division I baseball player is 'polished' and seems to already have all the tools necessary to be successful as a freshman. As opposed to the Division II baseball player, the typical DI player needs far less development, if any. The position players possess at least 4 of the 5 measurable tools - hit for average, hit for power, arm strength, speed, and defensive abilities. The pitchers display a command of at least 3 pitches with high velocities. On average, they have the ability to throw many innings, and most often they are only used on the mound and rarely as position players. Most D1 players come from large high schools. Many of these programs are considered the best in their area or in the State. In addition, most DI players have been awarded accolades such as All-Area, All-County, or All-State.

    The average characteristics by position are as follows:

    Right Hand Pitchers:
    -Height: 6'1"
    -Weight: 180 Pounds
    -Over 1 K per Inning Pitched
    -ERA below 2.50
    -Velocity: 88-90 MPH (Verified by neutral source)

    Left Hand Pitchers:
    -Height: 6'1"
    -Weight: 180 Pounds
    -1 K per Inning Pitched
    -ERA below 2.50
    -Velocity: 85-87 MPH (Verified by neutral source)

    Centerfielders:
    -Height: 5'11"
    -Weight: 170 Pounds
    -60 Yard: 6.6 (Verified)
    -Velocity for OF: 86-87 MPH (Verified by neutral source)

    Middle Infielders:
    -Height: 5'11"
    -Weight: 175 Pounds
    -60 Yard: 6.8-6.9 (Verified by neutral source)
    -Velocity from INF: 85+ MPH (Verified by neutral source)

    Catchers:
    -Height: 5'10"-6'0"
    -Weight: 180 Pounds
    -Pop Time: Sub 1.95 (Verified by neutral source)

    Corner Infielders:
    -Height: 6'2"
    -Weight: 200 Pounds
    -Power Numbers: 8+ HR, 30+RBI

    Division II:

    For some colleges, especially those in the Southern States and out on the West Coast, DII Baseball is an extension of DI. There are very few differences between the typical West Coast or Southern DII player and the average DI player. For the DII schools up North, the athletes may be a notch below the average DI and perhaps a little less polished. They may not throw as hard, play for the top high schools programs, or possess at least 4 of the 5 measurable tools. This is not always the case, as there are some very solid DII Baseball Programs up North. However, it is no secret that overall, the better baseball schools are those located in warmer climates.

    The Minimum Requirements by position are as follows:

    Right Handed Pitchers:
    - Height: 6'0' (Preferably taller)
    - Weight: 175 lbs
    - Averaging about 1K per inning pitched
    - ERA below 3.00
    - Velocity: 85 MPH

    Left Handed Pitchers:
    - Height: 5'10' (Preferably taller)
    - Weight: 165 lbs
    - Averaging about 1K per inning pitched
    - ERA at 3.00 or below
    - Velocity: 83 MPH

    Centerfielders:
    - Height: 5'9'
    - Weight: 150 lbs
    - 60 Yrd Time: 6.8 or below

    Middle Infielders:
    - Height: 5'7'
    - Weight: 150 lbs
    - 60 Yrd Time: 7.1 or below
    - 79-80 MPH from SS

    Catchers:
    - Height: 5'9'
    - Weight: 175 lbs
    - Pop Time: 2.0 or below

    Much can be determined on film. It is very difficult to measure defensive abilities on paper. Fielding percentage cannot be used as an accurate statistic because it is difficult to calculate and it can be easily manipulated. Most Division II players have received several accolades, such as All Conference or All Area.


    Division III:

    Some DIII programs are stronger than others, but there seems to be more continuity with the physical characteristics of DIII players than there are for DII or NAIA. Certain DIII programs, such as Wisconsin Whitewater or George Fox, play at a superior level. However, for the most part, the range of physical characteristics was slim.

    The Minimum Requirements by positions are as follow:

    Right Handed Pitchers:
    - Height: 5'8"
    - Weight: 155 Pounds
    - 1 or less than 1 K Per Inning Pitched
    - ERA below 4.00
    - Velocity: 81 MPH

    Left Handed Pitchers:
    - Height: 5'8"
    - Weight: 155 Pounds
    - 1 or less than 1 K Per Inning Pitched
    - ERA below 4.00
    - Velocity: 79 MPH

    Centerfielders:
    - Height 5'7"
    - Weight: 140 Pounds
    - 60 Yard Dash: 7.0 or below

    Middle Infielders:
    - Height: 5'7"
    - Weight: 150 Pounds
    - 40 Yard Dash: 4.9 or below

    Catchers:
    - Height: 5'8"
    - Weight: 165 Pounds
    - Pop Time: 2.1 or below


    NAIA:

    The discrepancies in characteristics are very severe when it comes to NAIA baseball. Some NAIA schools are playing at a DII level, while others are competing at a lower DIII level. NCSA found a mix of D2 criteria and D3 criteria make up the recruiting guidelines for this league.


    Junior College Baseball:

    Unlike the NAIA, Junior Colleges do have 3 divisions for the purpose of separating stronger JC programs from the weaker ones. While there may be somewhat of a drop off in talent between Division III Junior College and Division I and Division II Junior Colleges, there is little difference between DI and DII Junior Colleges. Many of the Junior College players lack the 'polish' to be considered DI players coming out of HS, but they already possess the necessary physical tools to be successful at the DI level. All they need to do is harness and polish those skills. The GPA's of most of the Junior College athletes are lower than those attending 4 year schools, suggesting that these athletes need to two years to mature academically as well.

    Preferred Grades for All Divsions:
    3.0 GPA +24 ACT + 1000 SAT (out of 1600)
    (No scores needed for underclassmen)

    In order to compile these Recruiting Guidelines, NCSA tracked hundreds of former NCSA student-athletes who have gone on to compete at the collegiate level, polled college coaches across the nation, and analyzed college rosters at all levels of competition.



    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Baseball by the Numbers


    Schools Offering Baseball
    NCAA Division I
    285

    NCAA Division II
    247

    NCAA Division III
    369

    NAIA
    205

    NJCAA
    394

    Total
    1,500

    Athletic Scholarship Opportunities
    Division I (per school)
    11.7

    Division II (per school)
    9

    NAIA (per school) 12

    Student-Athlete Participation
    NCAA Division I
    10,011

    NCAA Division II
    8,100

    NCAA Division III
    10,656

    HS Student-Athletes
    478,842


    Note: Division III schools offer merit, academic, and need-based scholarships.

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  14. #34
    I've worked high school ball for a few years and the majority are all in the 72-78 MPH range. The better ones will get into the lower 80-83 MPH range and the exceptional will touch the high 80's to low 90's. Blake Beavan could hit 95 to 97 and he was a first round draft choice of the Texas Rangers in 2007.

  15. #35
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    A former teammate coaches at a competitive D3. The average sizes listed would be dwarfed by his team. They're not small kids. They just lack a skill or two to prevent them from being D1 players.

  16. #36
    What would you say is a good speed for a freshman?

    I am throwing about 70 consistently and can touch maybe 73-74. It doesn't seem like enough, so I am working out every chance I get to hopefully get that up to be able to touch 80.

    Would you guys recommend hard workouts to increase velocity? I am talking about a decent amount of weight. What I do is:

    Dumbell Press
    Dumbell One Armed Row
    Bench Press
    Front Squats
    Planks
    Seated Cable Rows
    Chin Ups
    Pushups

    Chinups, pushups and planks done without weight.

    The rest done with about 85% of my max and reps from 6-12. Does this seem like a good workout for a pitcher looking to pick up velocity?

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charger567 View Post
    What would you say is a good speed for a freshman?
    It's really what's a good speed for a high school pitcher relative to his physical development. Kids develop at various ages. Some don't physically develop until college age. There are some slight people who can throw a ball through a wall. Then there are big people you would expect to throw hard, who can't. All a pitcher can do is find the limits of his potential.

    Try Jeager's long toss program and ASMI's Thrower's Ten.

  18. #38
    Can a high SAT score make up for a low GPA?

    My GPA is probably less than 3, but I think I'll be able to get at least 1400 on the SATs (for the two parts).

    And do they actually look at your size? If someone 5'11" is slightly better than someone 6'2", wouldn't they go with the shorter guy?

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by TG Coach View Post
    It's really what's a good speed for a high school pitcher relative to his physical development. Kids develop at various ages. Some don't physically develop until college age. There are some slight people who can throw a ball through a wall. Then there are big people you would expect to throw hard, who can't. All a pitcher can do is find the limits of his potential.

    Try Jeager's long toss program and ASMI's Thrower's Ten.
    Say.... I am going to grow 2-4 more inches. My build is 5'7" right now and I weight 145. Do you think I could make up for being shorter by buffing up? I can't name 10 active major league pitchers under 6 feet, which really discourages me, but I feel like I can make up for it in pure power. Who do you think is likely to throw harder?

    5'10" 185 lb., athletic build
    6'2" 165 lb., skinny

    Both put through the same baseball experiences, could the shorter guy come out on top?

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robbie_L View Post
    Can a high SAT score make up for a low GPA?

    My GPA is probably less than 3, but I think I'll be able to get at least 1400 on the SATs (for the two parts).
    With the time demands of college ball recruiters look for players with 3.0 or better. There's an assumption time demands will have a negative effect on GPA by .5 to 1.0. Coaches don't want their players under 2.0. Below 3.0 the player better be a stud.

    Here's my daughter's softball schedule in the fall and preseason. This is a fairly normal schedule for a baseball player too.

    6-7:30am M-F - swimming for upper body strength
    1:30-4:30pm M-F and 9-noon Sat - practice
    7-9pm M,W,F - weight and agility training

    During the season she misses school on Friday every other week (travel for away games). They often arrive back at campus in the middle of the night Sunday night but are required to be in their Monday morning classes. Attendance is reported for the athletes as required by the academic compliance officer. Classes have to be taken from 8am to 12:30pm as to not interfere with softball related activities.

    There are conference games Fri-Sun and non-cons on Tuesday and sometimes Thursday (if home that weekend). Oh yeah, there's fifteen hours of class and homework in there too! And sleep too. Social life? That's what teammates are for and other athletes in the jock dorms.

    Want a real treat? Try a six to eight hour bus ride as a freshman where you share a seat rather than have your own and stretch out. Then catch a few hours sleep and go to class Monday morning.

    One of my neighbors is the leading NCAA scorer in the country in her sport. She's a freshman. She shares a seat, then carries equipment from the bus to the hotel. No exceptions for stardom. She's a freshman.

    My daughter works so hard out of fear of failure her college GPA is higher than high school.

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