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Thread: Pulling Off the Ball

  1. #1
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    Pulling Off the Ball

    Need Drills to stop pulling off the ball


    thanks,

    drill
    Yogi Berra was asked by a reporter "How do you catch a knuckle ball?" He came right back and said "When it stops rolling"

  2. #2

    Best Drill I have ever used

    Take an old bat and cut off the handle or spend money on one of those small bats that you use with one arm. Get a tee and have the player hit off the tee with his front arm. Move the ball outside and have them hit it the other way. Make sure you adjust the tee so the outside pitch is further back closer to the catcher, inside pitch out front and down the middle about half way between the two. This works wonders for anyone pulling off the ball. If they miss the ball in this drill, they are pulling off of it.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drill View Post
    Need Drills to stop pulling off the ball


    thanks,

    drill
    The primary cause of pulling off the ball, is a straightening of the spine. When you come out of your tilt and move toward a vertical spine, the head raises and the front shoulder moves up. Just work on staying down.

    Make the batter swing and hold his finish position for 2 seconds. He should finish with his spine still tilted and the head toward the plate.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbooth View Post
    The primary cause of pulling off the ball, is a straightening of the spine. When you come out of your tilt and move toward a vertical spine, the head raises and the front shoulder moves up. Just work on staying down.

    Make the batter swing and hold his finish position for 2 seconds. He should finish with his spine still tilted and the head toward the plate.
    why not start with a straighter spine and level head and put the flex into the knees instead..this is where TOO much posture tilt is a BAD thing..dont lean over the plate whereas your eyes are not level anymore..I straightened up my one boys posture and he hits a heckuva lot better ..level eyes

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by toprank View Post
    Take an old bat and cut off the handle or spend money on one of those small bats that you use with one arm.
    At a recent coaches conference there were D1 coaches that highly recommended one-arm drills, but they wanted them performed with the student's normal bat with their normal grip. The reason given was that students will be forced to use a fluid swing and not cheat in performing the drill.

  6. #6
    I don't agree with using the normal bat. When using one hand a normal bat feels twice as heavy and form is sacrificed. A lighter bat, yet not too light, is what I use.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by wogdoggy View Post
    why not start with a straighter spine and level head and put the flex into the knees instead..this is where TOO much posture tilt is a BAD thing..dont lean over the plate whereas your eyes are not level anymore..I straightened up my one boys posture and he hits a heckuva lot better ..level eyes
    Well sure. You need to bend the knees. Sorry for assuming the coach knew proper posture to start. All MLB hitters have some tilt in the spine, you can't be totally vertical.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drill View Post
    Need Drills to stop pulling off the ball
    How do you define pulling off the ball?

    Are they pushing everything or hitting it off the end of the bat?

  9. #9
    You can do it that way if you want to swing in a way different than the mlb pattern. If you start vertical, you'd better get into the position all these guys do at launch:

    http://englishbeyhitting.com/forums/...php?board=16.0

    And look at this guy from the rear at contact and look at his head and his tilt:

    http://englishbeyhitting.com/forums/...hp?topic=587.0

    I would agree that too much of anything is not good, including tilt.

    Quote Originally Posted by wogdoggy View Post
    why not start with a straighter spine and level head and put the flex into the knees instead..this is where TOO much posture tilt is a BAD thing..dont lean over the plate whereas your eyes are not level anymore..I straightened up my one boys posture and he hits a heckuva lot better ..level eyes

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by jbooth View Post
    The primary cause of pulling off the ball, is a straightening of the spine.
    The straightening of the spine is not the "cause" but an "effect". The spine can straighten for different reasons. I would expect a much better answer from someone who is a "pro instructor". What "causes" pulling off the ball?
    Jim, I don't thing we've exchanged posts before and I don't mean to be rude here, but I'm calling you on this because you are a "pro instructor".

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by les View Post
    The straightening of the spine is not the "cause" but an "effect". The spine can straighten for different reasons. I would expect a much better answer from someone who is a "pro instructor". What "causes" pulling off the ball?
    Jim, I don't thing we've exchanged posts before and I don't mean to be rude here, but I'm calling you on this because you are a "pro instructor".
    So, what "causes" the spine to go vertical?

    How can you pull away from the plate without straightening the spine?

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by jbooth View Post
    So, what "causes" the spine to go vertical?

    How can you pull away from the plate without straightening the spine?
    I'm sorry. I don't quite understand your two sentences. I don't think I said that you can pull away without straightening the spine. Please keep in mind that it is about cause and effect.

    Let's say someone has been taught to extend their arms and they start extending early in their swing out away from their center. If they are tilted over when they do this, they would most likely throw themselves over the plate to the ground. Where there is an action there is an opposite (re)action. The body is subconciously keeping it's balance by having an opposite reaction by standing up. Arms getting away... body standing up to keep from throwing itself to the ground. I'm not saying that this is the case here, just giving an example. Now, IMHO, the arms getting away could have many different "causes". Bat drag, casting, bat too far behind body, extending... I think a great start for the main poster of this thread would be to work on staying connected. Staying connected will help allow you to keep your spine angle. jmho
    Last edited by les; 11-15-2007 at 06:18 PM. Reason: sentence - cause and effect

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by les View Post
    I'm sorry. I don't quite understand your two sentences. I don't think I said that you can pull away without straightening the spine. Please keep in mind that it is about cause and effect.

    Let's say someone has been taught to extend their arms and they start extending early in their swing out away from their center. If they are tilted over when they do this, they would most likely throw themselves over the plate to the ground. Where there is an action there is an opposite (re)action. The body is subconciously keeping it's balance by having an opposite reaction by standing up. Arms getting away... body standing up to keep from throwing itself to the ground. I'm not saying that this is the case here, just giving an example. Now, IMHO, the arms getting away could have many different "causes". Bat drag, casting, bat too far behind body, extending... I think a great start for the main poster of this thread would be to work on staying connected. Staying connected will help allow you to keep your spine angle. jmho
    Now, I understand what you're saying and yes, that is a cause also. I said, the primary reason was standing up, not the only reason. And, I didn't say that the batter shouled tilt more to prevent it. I said, the batter needed to maintain whatever amount of tilt that he uses in his swing. To stay down.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris O'Leary View Post
    How do you define pulling off the ball?

    Are they pushing everything or hitting it off the end of the bat?
    front shoulder ahead, relative to hand postion.


    drill
    Yogi Berra was asked by a reporter "How do you catch a knuckle ball?" He came right back and said "When it stops rolling"

  15. #15
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    A very common reason young players pull off the ball (and I agree with Booth's definition that pulling off the ball can be defined as straightening the spine during the swing) is that they're scared of the ball. Even some strong players will tend to straighten up to get their head further from the ball against very hard and wild throwers. It takes guts to keep that body in there against that type of thrower. I see this type of pulling off the ball every weekend.

    -JJA

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Drill View Post
    front shoulder ahead, relative to hand postion.


    drill
    Sounds like a connection issue. Hands being left behind.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jbooth View Post
    Now, I understand what you're saying and yes, that is a cause also. I said, the primary reason was standing up, not the only reason.
    That's not what I read in your first post of this thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by jbooth View Post
    To stay down.
    Teaching to "stay down" is along the teaching lines of "just stop doing it", which will not work. Bottomline is you have to correct the "cause" not the "effect". I feel the best instructors are the ones who can effectively determine the root cause of a problem before finding a solution.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by les View Post
    That's not what I read in your first post of this thread.



    Teaching to "stay down" is along the teaching lines of "just stop doing it", which will not work. Bottomline is you have to correct the "cause" not the "effect". I feel the best instructors are the ones who can effectively determine the root cause of a problem before finding a solution.
    My exact statement was;

    "The primary cause of pulling off the ball, is a straightening of the spine.

    And, I'm not going back on it.

    It might not be the ONLY cause, and I mean a straightening that occurs that is not necessary. If a ball is up, or up and in, you will straighten up to get to the ball. I'm talking about doing it when you shouldn't be, and it pulls the bat away from contact.

    I believe I know quite a lot about the true root causes of things, and I agree that many people don't. They put a band-aid on the problem, but don't cure it.

  19. #19
    [QUOTE=jbooth;1051375]My exact statement was;

    "The primary cause of pulling off the ball, is a straightening of the spine.QUOTE]

    Exactly!

    And...

    my original statement was the straightening of the spine is NOT a "cause", but an "effect".

    Your other posts just danced around your original post. Speaking of dancing... you've had a lot of dance partners over the years, Jim. I believe when you first started posting years ago, you were a "certified" Epstein instructor. You've changed probably 4-5 times since.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by les View Post
    My exact statement was;

    "The primary cause of pulling off the ball, is a straightening of the spine.

    Exactly!

    And...

    my original statement was the straightening of the spine is NOT a "cause", but an "effect".

    Your other posts just danced around your original post. Speaking of dancing... you've had a lot of dance partners over the years, Jim. I believe when you first started posting years ago, you were a "certified" Epstein instructor. You've changed probably 4-5 times since.
    No, I haven't. I've had the same basic beliefs since just before going to Epstein. Is this Richard with a new userid? I've never followed any particular "guru" 100%. I've taken something from each and reached my own conclusions, and have been very consistent in stating them. I have changed some thoughts, but that's from the learning process. What's wrong with that? The core beliefs have always been the same. Hips, Handle, Head. I've said that since before going to Epstein 4 years ago.
    Last edited by jbooth; 11-18-2007 at 06:04 PM.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by jbooth View Post
    No, I haven't. I've had the same basic beliefs since just before going to Epstein. Is this Richard with a new userid? I've never followed any particular "guru" 100%. I've taken something from each and reached my own conclusions, and have been very consistent in stating them. I have changed some thoughts, but that's from the learning process. What's wrong with that? The core beliefs have always been the same. Hips, Handle, Head. I've said that since before going to Epstein 4 years ago.
    No, my name is not Richard. Nothing wrong with changing some thoughts. I've seen it everywhere. I got a little fired up reading some of your argumentative posts.

    If I were paying you for lessons, I would be a little concerned about you "reaching your own conclusions". That's one thing I really like about Steve Englishbey's methods. I'm not learning his conclusions. He backs everything up with science(s).

  22. #22
    Well now we know les is DEFINATELY NOT Richard......

    Quote Originally Posted by les View Post
    No, my name is not Richard. Nothing wrong with changing some thoughts. I've seen it everywhere. I got a little fired up reading some of your argumentative posts.

    If I were paying you for lessons, I would be a little concerned about you "reaching your own conclusions". That's one thing I really like about Steve Englishbey's methods. I'm not learning his conclusions. He backs everything up with science(s).

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by les View Post
    He backs everything up with science(s).
    Science?

    Yeager backs up his work with science and comes to a different assessment in terms of describing the MLB swing.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BoardMember View Post
    Well now we know les is DEFINATELY NOT Richard......
    Yeah, that's for sure.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by les View Post
    No, my name is not Richard. Nothing wrong with changing some thoughts. I've seen it everywhere. I got a little fired up reading some of your argumentative posts.

    If I were paying you for lessons, I would be a little concerned about you "reaching your own conclusions". That's one thing I really like about Steve Englishbey's methods. I'm not learning his conclusions. He backs everything up with science(s).
    My conclusions come from analysis of the science also. Even scientists don't always agree on things. I've yet to see anybody prove me wrong on the science. I hear "you're wrong" a lot, but never any proof to show why. The last couple of debates ended with Steve conceding that I was technically correct, but that he didn't think it was something to teach, or that it was important relative to instruction. Fine, I agree, but my facts were correct.

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