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Thread: Williams-DiMaggio trade

  1. #1
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    Williams-DiMaggio trade

    Many of you have, like myself, heard about the infamous trade wherein the Red Sox and Yankee owners were drinking together late one night and agreed to swap their star players - Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio. I've heard the trade fell apart the next morning alternately because one or both of the owners sobered up or because Tom Yawkey (the Boston owner) was adamant about the Yankees throwing in a young Yogi Berra to boot.

    Does anyone know what the actual story is? When was this supposed to have happened? And, most curiously, when and where did this story first appear? What's the earliest appearance of this anecdote that any of you know of?
    "The value of a stat is directly proportional to how good it makes Steve Garvey look." -- Nerdlinger

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    I heard it fell apart due to Marylin Monroe doing a lap dance for Tom Yawkey, to which Mrs. Yawkey was none too pleased.

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    Smile The Lap dance that changed ML History

    Quote Originally Posted by sschirmer
    I heard it fell apart due to Marylin Monroe doing a lap dance for Tom Yawkey, to which Mrs. Yawkey was none too pleased.

    EEKAMONGA !......It was the lap dance that changed ML history..

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    Quote Originally Posted by skeletor
    EEKAMONGA !......It was the lap dance that changed ML history..
    Finally, someone else with a sense of humor.

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    little bit of cultural dance on me loins

    Quote Originally Posted by sschirmer
    Finally, someone else with a sense of humor.

    Heck, MM could lap dance this olde Tiger fan..anytime..
    seven year itch, indeed !......whoa, nellie...or in this case,
    whoa, Marilyn.......I remember years ago, reading about
    Joe D, watching his then wife on the set of Billy Wilder's
    '7 year itch for 20th century Fox...and he just about flipped
    out when they did that famouse scene, when the subway
    grate blew her skirt up over her head...and Joe D, just about
    swallowed his cookies......

  6. #6
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    Joe D and Ted W show

    Both of those players, as great as they were..had to probably deal
    with a lot of personal demons...which the press back there, sorta
    'side stepped' reporting 'em....Joe D, was a momma's boy..and had weird
    ideas about women..and more..and was off in his own little world..
    Going from the Bay Area, to the BIG APPLE, musta been culture shock
    for the Yankee clipper....His brother Dominick, who played with the
    hated RED SOX, was the more saner of the two..

    Years later, Joe D...pitched a lot of products on the tube..i.e. mr.coffee

    etc...and years later, a sizzling book on him after he passed on..was
    written..revealing his dark underside......

    as for TEDDY BALLGAME....similar demons...wasn't much of a ladies man,
    was totally into the science of hitting, and fishing.....served the military
    in both WW2 & Korea....fought with fans and the press in Boston...
    was considered the king of the horse's arses in Boston......

    and years later, his head ended up being removed from his body,
    stored like some sort of prized baseball item..and his DNA was once
    being offered for sale...finally his sub moronic son, who fought his
    sister for the estate and the 'head' of papa Williams, died of cancer
    not too soon later....

    both Joe and Ted ..were great players, but terribly flawed and troubled
    human beings...

  7. #7
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    You are very correct on both counts. Williams grew up in a bit of poverty, dominearing mother, etc.

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    I think that the thing with Williams more than being dominated was being ignored...his mother was out bell ringing for the Salvation Army all day, his father worked in his photo studio all hours to make sure that he didn't see her. Ted and Danny effectively get no parenting as a result. He said that his playground manager was the only adult to give him any attention!
    Joe D seemed to have a very exact expectation for how people in his life were supposed to behave, and if they didn't meet it, they were out of his life. He wouldn't acknowledge Joe Jr. and the poor kid had a horrible, drug-plagued life...died only a few months after his Dad.
    It seemed like Ted would at least be straight with people and tell them what he thought of them (loudly), Joe D was an icy person who never told people anything. Joe even gave Ted the cold shoulder and Ted let people know about it! Joe disingenuously told a dinner crowd that he regretted never having fished with the masterful Ted, and Ted screamed out that Joe was invited three times and never showed.

  9. #9
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    Joe and Ted

    couple of characters, to say the least...Was thinking of the stats
    Teddy could have had...if the military didn't snag him twice..like
    similar players, (Hank Greenberg) he lost some prime years and
    overall numbers...question being, who was the loonier of the two ?

    and could either of them done as well in Boston (Joe D ) and
    New York, (Ted ) ?


    thank god MM did that lap dance for the RED SOX owner....

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellborn
    I think that the thing with Williams more than being dominated was being ignored...his mother was out bell ringing for the Salvation Army all day, his father worked in his photo studio all hours to make sure that he didn't see her. Ted and Danny effectively get no parenting as a result. He said that his playground manager was the only adult to give him any attention!
    Joe D seemed to have a very exact expectation for how people in his life were supposed to behave, and if they didn't meet it, they were out of his life. He wouldn't acknowledge Joe Jr. and the poor kid had a horrible, drug-plagued life...died only a few months after his Dad.
    It seemed like Ted would at least be straight with people and tell them what he thought of them (loudly), Joe D was an icy person who never told people anything. Joe even gave Ted the cold shoulder and Ted let people know about it! Joe disingenuously told a dinner crowd that he regretted never having fished with the masterful Ted, and Ted screamed out that Joe was invited three times and never showed.
    This is a wonderful post. Good information.

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    I was 12 or 13 when I first heard the trade proposed (1948 or so?), but I didn't know then how close it was to actually happening. All the discussion I remember was how would such a change help both players.

    Certainly Yankee Stadium is no paradise for RH hitters, while Fenway Park is a great place for RH pull hitters. Joe would certainly have more career homeruns if he finished his career in Boston -- but I suspect he would have retired rather than finish in Boston.

    Ted might have done very well in New York -- great park for LH pull hitter. But only if he could handle the NY press, which I doubt. Yankee fans and media seem to prefer "home grown" talent over "imports".

    Most importantly, I don't think the Red Sox would have won any World Series simply because the Clipper had joined their squad.

    Timing is everything!
    If such a trade were made after the 1948 season, I have no doubt that the Yankees would have benefitted more. (Unless they had to throw in young Yogi Berra -- which I never heard before.)
    Luke

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    If this trade had gone through, the fans in Boston and New York would have burned Fenway Park and Yankee Stadium. With the owners inside.

    Bob

  14. #14
    The trade was discussed in 1949, way to late for Joe to have an impact on the Sox or on his numbers--but Ted in Yankee for the last decade of his career? That would be interesting

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    i always thought this subject was very interesting. I remember a few weeks ago a saturday morning radio host (not a well-known guy, I dont remember his name, hes on 1050 ESPN Radio if anyone happens to know his name) and he played a clip of an interview he did with Joe concerning this very subject. Joe seemed as if he would have preffered to stay with the Yankees, but also said he would have embraced the opprotunity of plying in Fenway and also playing with Dom. As a Yankee fan I have to admit that it would have been very nice if we Had Ted in pinstripes, but fir the better of the franchise im glad we stuck with Joe.

    I also have never heard that the Sox requested Yogi Berra, pretty interesting.
    "Statistics are used much like a drunk uses a lamp post: for support, not illumination."
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  16. #16
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    I have read that Ted did not like hitting at Yankee Stadium because of the poor hitting background. I thought that this deal was discussed by Tom Yawkey and Larry MacPhail which would have placed it in 1946 or early 1947. According to When the Boys Came Back during the Brooklyn/St Louis playoff, Dave Egan reported that Ted would not be with Boston in 1947. He would have either been traded to Detroit for Hal Newhouser or to the Yankees for DiMaggio. Yawkey was slow denying the DiMaggio rumor. The author (Frederick Turner) placed the Yawkey/MacPhail discussion early in the 1946 season, when DiMaggio was off to a bad start and Yawkey was pissed at Williams about something.

    If this discussion was in 1946, I doubt that the Red Sox would have been interested in Yogi Berra. More likely they would have pushed for Aaron Robinson if they were looking for a catcher.
    Last edited by wamby; 08-10-2005 at 10:08 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by four tool
    The trade was discussed in 1949, way to late for Joe to have an impact on the Sox or on his numbers--but Ted in Yankee for the last decade of his career? That would be interesting
    How true you are!

  18. #18
    First I heard of 46 or 47, but then again Ted once said he was ready to leave the Sox after 1939, according Leigh Montville's book.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chancellor
    Many of you have, like myself, heard about the infamous trade wherein the Red Sox and Yankee owners were drinking together late one night and agreed to swap their star players - Ted Williams and Joe DiMaggio. I've heard the trade fell apart the next morning alternately because one or both of the owners sobered up or because Tom Yawkey (the Boston owner) was adamant about the Yankees throwing in a young Yogi Berra to boot.

    Does anyone know what the actual story is? When was this supposed to have happened? And, most curiously, when and where did this story first appear? What's the earliest appearance of this anecdote that any of you know of?
    In Red Barber's book "1947" he tells this story. However, there is no mention at all of Berra. I'm curious: Where'd you here that part?
    CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoofBonser26
    In Red Barber's book "1947" he tells this story. However, there is no mention at all of Berra. I'm curious: Where'd you here that part?
    Did he mention the MM lap dance?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sschirmer
    Did he mention the MM lap dance?
    Um...that'd be a big "no".
    CLEVELAND INDIANS Central Division Champions

    1920 1948 1954 1995 1996 1997 1998 1999 2001 2007

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    Quote Originally Posted by BoofBonser26
    Um...that'd be a big "no".
    That's what Joe D was screaming, "Nooooooooo!"

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    The colour of victory

    Quote Originally Posted by BasEbaLlKnoItAll
    i always thought this subject was very interesting. I remember a few weeks ago a saturday morning radio host (not a well-known guy, I dont remember his name, hes on 1050 ESPN Radio if anyone happens to know his name) and he played a clip of an interview he did with Joe concerning this very subject. Joe seemed as if he would have preffered to stay with the Yankees, but also said he would have embraced the opprotunity of plying in Fenway and also playing with Dom. As a Yankee fan I have to admit that it would have been very nice if we Had Ted in pinstripes, but fir the better of the franchise im glad we stuck with Joe.

    I also have never heard that the Sox requested Yogi Berra, pretty interesting.

    Amazing what money can buy, aint it?

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Appling
    Timing is everything!
    If such a trade were made after the 1948 season, I have no doubt that the Yankees would have benefitted more. (Unless they had to throw in young Yogi Berra -- which I never heard before.)
    I could easily imagine Berra being a sort of "throw-in" in the trade talks principally involving other players pre-1950. Coming up to the major leagues, nobody (not even the Yankee scouts) thought that Yogi had the physical attribute to be a superstar. It wasn't until the 1950 season that Yogi would prove to be an extraordinary asset.

    Timing is everything, as you say. But during the offseason of 1948-49, I don't think a straight-up trade involving Williams and Joe D. would have been as obviously lopsided, as you paint it. Dimaggio was about 3.5 years older than Williams. Joe D. was older, but he was a better all-around player. And he was still in the prime of his career. As a matter of fact, he won the MVP award in 1947, and actually IMPROVED on many of his offensive numbers in '48. Before the 1949 season started, there was absolutely no indication whatsoever that Joltin' Joe, at 34, was slowing down or that retirement was anywhere near.

    But then came the painful heel injury. Then came missing the first half of 1949. Then, and only then, does it become clearly apparent to everyone that a Williams-Dimaggio trade would have been a lopsided one in favor of NY.

    But had a trade somehow taken place, it is interesting to speculate how Teddy Ballgame would have done with the Yankees. Yankee Stadium may very well have been tailor-made for him. The only question mark would have been his relationship with manager Casey Stengel. I could easily imagine those two huge egos clashing with each other. And as great as Teddy may have been, I doubt that that he would have won a PR battle with the 'ole Professor. The NY press loved Casey. And so did the fans (that's what winning 10 pennants in 12 years will do for you.) Yankee Stadium would have been big enough for only one of them, and I don't think Casey would have been the one sent packing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hellborn View Post
    I think that the thing with Williams more than being dominated was being ignored...his mother was out bell ringing for the Salvation Army all day, his father worked in his photo studio all hours to make sure that he didn't see her. Ted and Danny effectively get no parenting as a result. He said that his playground manager was the only adult to give him any attention!
    .

    Ted and Danny each dealt with it in their own way: Ted the athlete and Danny the juvinile deliquent.

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