Baseball's Mount Rushmore

[HecDel]

MLB.COM's question of the week was an interesting one. They asked several players if there were a Mount Rushmore for baseball which four players heads should be on the mountain ? I would say Babe Ruth,
Lou Gehrig, Henry Aaron and Jackie Robinson, who would you pick?

[franklin]

I'd go for:
1-Alexander Cartwright Jr._______Although he wasn't a professional baseball player, this man should be called the Father of the Baseball.

2-Babe Ruth______This guy "revolutionized the baseball with his prowess as a homerun hitter. He ushered in an era of economic prosperity for baseball." (Sean Lahman, 1996).

3-Ty Cobb________An artist drawing hits.

And 4- Hank Aaron_______The Home Runs King.

[bly11]

Does it have to be only players? Because I'd choose Ruth, Jackie, Kenesaw Landis and Harry Wright. (Honorable mentions to Branch Rickey and Marvin Miller.)

bly11 - Oakland A's conference moderator (just don't chisel Charley O up there!)

[Benny]

I think anybody who influenced baseball could be included.

My four:
Alexander Cartwright
Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Branch Rickey

Honorable mentions (in no particular order):
Players:
Lou Gehrig
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Ty Cobb
Cy Young
Walter Johnson
Ted Williams
Joe Dimaggio
Christy Matthewson

Figures:
Kenesaw Mountain Landis
Marvin Miller
Casey Stengel
John McGraw
Harry Caray :)

And I'll nominate two more baseball figures to design it. If Moe Berg and Bill Veeck put there heads together, who knows what the result would be?! :)

Excellent topic.

[trosmok]

Ruth, Gehrig, Robinson & Musial.

[shlevine42]

Great choices, Benny! I'd also like to see Cartwright, Ruth, Robinson and Rickey memorialized. I think their contributions to the game are the most significant and enduring.

[trosmok]

Perhaps facing the opposite way on the back we could have Cobb, Rose, Williams, and Flood.

[bly11]

Curt Flood?!? Just because he wanted the right to not have his carcass shipped off willy-nilly without his consent?

Make that back side of the rock Rose, Joe Jackson, Hal Chase and Jim Devlin (the Louisville Grays' only pitcher in 1877; literally threw the NL pennant and got the Grays drummed out of the league).

bly11 - Oakland A's conference moderator
(I'd be tempted to chisel Charley O. on the back face too)

[007]

It makes me shudder to think of Landis on Mount Rushmore. You could put him side by side with Jackie Robinson though for the irony of it.

[LeGrandOrange]

The Baseball Mount Rushmore on the "Black" Hills:

Jackie Robinson
Hank Aaron
Willie Mays
Frank Robinson

(and I'd leave enough space for future additions, i.e. Barry Bonds and Rickey Henderson. I'd also consider making a separate monument elsewhere that's of Reggie Jackson, which will take 75 years to build but will be of Reggie, just Reggie, and only Reggie, as per his nature. =) And I'd try and get a rock from the blasting. *g*)

You know, I got a feeling that Frank would fine some of the rock blasters during the creation. =)
Regardless, that's a venerable who's who, n'est-ce pas?

[Fimbul_Wolf]

I'd put:

Alexander Cartwright
Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Lou Gehrig

If it had to be only players, I'd replace Cartwright with Hank Aaron.

[Imapotato]

For better or worse

The 4 most INFLUENTIAL Persons in baseball history

Alexander Cartwright (Baseball's George Washington)
Kenesaw Landis
Jackie Robinson
Babe Ruth

Those 4 had the most influence on the game and society pertqaining to the game

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Players

Ruth
Cobb
Cy Young
Jackie Robinson


Others

A.G. Spalding
Branch Rickey
Harry Frazee
Ban Johnson
Balco Laboratories

[Joltin' Joe]

It is very difficult to only pick 4 as there are so many deserving ones. On the flip side, I cannot think of anyone less deserving than Landis.

[ballparks]

Not only is this thread old, but there's been another like it since:

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=27487&highlight=rushmore

[Chisox]

I'd have to go with

Alexander Cartwright
George Wright
Ban Johnson
Connie Mack
William Hulbert
on side A (influential execs)

with
Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson
Cap Anson
Curt Flood
on side B (influential players)

John Montgomery Ward in the middle

[BoSox Rule]

Babe Ruth
Roger Clemens
Ted Williams
Jackie Robinson

[DoubleX]

I think there are at least two givens: Jackie Robinson and Babe Ruth. I think I'd vote for Gehrig and Mays for the other two, but I can also see good arguments for Ted Williams, Hank Aaron, Joe DiMaggio, Mickey Mantle, Ty Cobb, Cy Young, and Walter Johnson.

[Ursa Major]

Cartwright -- you gotta have one "father of baseball".
Ruth - duh.
DiMaggio -- baseball as artistry.
Robinson - duh, part II.

And it kills me to leave Mays off, but that opens the door to too many others like Aaron, and the like. Also, it would be tough to leave Clemente off as the 'representative' of the Latin contribution to the game.

[85cards]

Hi all...new here.

I think Ruth and Robinson are no-brainers. But if we're going for significance to the development of the game I would add Henry Chadwick and Marvin Miller.

If we're sticking to players I would add Wagner and Aaron.

[Cubsfan97]

If your gonna put Landis on there then you might as well put Selig on there. Landis was the one who banned the clearly innocent Joe Jackson from baseball forever. If your gonna put people on it put Al Spalding, Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson and Ripken.

[Chisox]

Hi all...new here.
Henry Chadwick

I knew I was forgetting somebody. I think this is why the Hall of Fame was created. 4 faces is pretty small.

[sschirmer]

For better or worse

The 4 most INFLUENTIAL Persons in baseball history

Alexander Cartwright (Baseball's George Washington)
Kenesaw Landis
Jackie Robinson
Babe Ruth

Those 4 had the most influence on the game and society pertqaining to the game

I would have to say that this is pretty darn close to my list as well. Tough to leave Branch Rickey and Cy Young off, but you gotta draw the line somewhere.

[Joltin' Joe]

For better or worse

The 4 most INFLUENTIAL Persons in baseball history

Alexander Cartwright (Baseball's George Washington)
Kenesaw Landis
Jackie Robinson
Babe Ruth

Those 4 had the most influence on the game and society pertqaining to the game

I would assume that the "worse" is reserved for Landis. The question would be, why would someone that had negative influence on the game deserve to be on Rushmore.

Also please explain why Landis is the 2nd most influential person in baseball history?

[Imapotato]

He was the 1st commisioner, he lasted a Looooong time, and during his tenure did just as many good things as bad.

So whether one likes it or not, Landis was the 2nd most influential person in baseball history and he would deserve to be on Rushmore

Thomas Jefferson was an intelligent man, but a horrible President BTW, but he is on Rushmore. His whole platform was less government, but he went 360 and bought the Lousiana Purchase

But naming others

Miller
Chadwick
Cobb
Cy Young
Wagner

As much as I love all but Miller, none were as close to influential as the 4 I mentioned

[Sultan_1895-1948]

He took things a little overboard, perhaps erroring on the side of caution in regards to baseball's integrity.

No matter what though, he was a prick for suspending Ruth for the beginning of the '22 season. 40 games I think it was. Cost him another 12 dingers probably, and broke up a string of seasons for the ages. The barnstorming rule was stupid, he should not have been suspended :2 cents: ;)

[Joltin' Joe]

He was the 1st commisioner, he lasted a Looooong time, and during his tenure did just as many good things as bad.

So whether one likes it or not, Landis was the 2nd most influential person in baseball history and he would deserve to be on Rushmore

Thomas Jefferson was an intelligent man, but a horrible President BTW, but he is on Rushmore. His whole platform was less government, but he went 360 and bought the Lousiana Purchase


1. Please tell me some of the many good things he did as I cannot think of any. And please don't even tell me that he saved Baseball after the 1919 season. He did no such thing. All he did was to protect the interest of the owners. As for the saving baseball, that credit goes to Mr. Ruth.

2. I do admit, he did his job. His job was to protect the best interest of the owners, as they paid his salary. The best interest of the owners does not equal "good for baseball" however.
Even before he became a commish, he was bad for the game. Despite making many ruling against monopolies, he single handedly was responsible for the demise of the Federal League, keeping the monopoly, the reserve clause, etc. Of course this was all for his best interest as we all know.

3. I don't think TJ was a horrible president. He may be highly overrated but nowhere horrible. As for being on Rushmore, I believe he is there because of his drafting of the Declaration of Independence, not for his tenure as President. Of and I don't think the Louisiana Theft...I mean Purchase hurt either. That was like coming off the bench on the bottom of the 9th, 2 outs, bases loaded, 7th game of the WS your team down 3-0 and hitting a Walk off WS winning grand salami! :D

He took things a little overboard, perhaps erroring on the side of caution in regards to baseball's integrity.

No matter what though, he was a prick for suspending Ruth for the beginning of the '22 season. 40 games I think it was. Cost him another 12 dingers probably, and broke up a string of seasons for the ages. The barnstorming rule was stupid, he should not have been suspended :2 cents: ;)

Everything he did was to protect the best interest of the owners and to feed his enormous ego. It absolutely had nothing to do with the integrity of baseball.

Quite ironic since that same man saved Baseball and made Landis look like a hero. :rolleyes:

[Say Hey]

Jackie Robinson
Willie Mays
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Jackie Robinson
Willie Mays
Babe Ruth
Hank Aaron

I kinda like that list. They were all amazing players, who were constantly disrespected by being called the N word. Hopefully society has come a long since then. I feel so bad for Aaron, with Bonds doing what he's doing. Seriously, Hank is such a friekin' good guy man. Anyway, nice list.

[Gooch]

Only Four?

Babe Ruth
Ty Cobb
Lou Gehrig
Willie Mays

[Imapotato]

1. Please tell me some of the many good things he did as I cannot think of any. And please don't even tell me that he saved Baseball after the 1919 season. He did no such thing. All he did was to protect the interest of the owners. As for the saving baseball, that credit goes to Mr. Ruth.

2. I do admit, he did his job. His job was to protect the best interest of the owners, as they paid his salary. The best interest of the owners does not equal "good for baseball" however.
Even before he became a commish, he was bad for the game. Despite making many ruling against monopolies, he single handedly was responsible for the demise of the Federal League, keeping the monopoly, the reserve clause, etc. Of course this was all for his best interest as we all know.

3. I don't think TJ was a horrible president. He may be highly overrated but nowhere horrible. As for being on Rushmore, I believe he is there because of his drafting of the Declaration of Independence, not for his tenure as President. Of and I don't think the Louisiana Theft...I mean Purchase hurt either. That was like coming off the bench on the bottom of the 9th, 2 outs, bases loaded, 7th game of the WS your team down 3-0 and hitting a Walk off WS winning grand salami! :D


He was NOT in the owner's pockets

He broke up the minor league monopoly of the often heralded Branch Rickey (who was a real miserly prick, he integrated baseball because black ballplayers were CHEAP, not because he was noble.)

Landis also brought stability to baseball, in the form of the Commish's office, thereby staving off Congress getting rid of anti-trust.

He did well enough to break the owners' corruption and cheapness, yes there was the Yankee Dynasties during his tenure, but unlike deadball, many other teams began to compete, not just the select few.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

ok dodger, here's a better one for ya ;)

[plask_stirlac]

Ruth
Aaron
Mathewson
Big Train

[west coast orange and black]

my guys in the black hills. great men, all.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

nice pic !! ;) I'm working on the Landis one. I need 3 more villains though.

[four tool]

Ruth
J. Robinson
Rickey
Cobb

[Captain Cold Nose]

If a pioneer is needed, ala the two Founding Fathers on Mount Rushmore, Harry Wright, Cap Anson and Alexander Cartwright could fight it out. I think Cartwright would be more akin to Ben Franklin than a President.
Ty Cobb
Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson

[Brian McKenna]

I'll go for the two headed masks:

Ty Cobb/Babe Ruth
Jackie Robinson/Cap Anson
Branch Rickey/Rube Foster
Marvin Miller/ESPN Logo

[Chisox]

nice pic !! ;) I'm working on the Landis one. I need 3 more villains though.

I certainly agree.

3 Villians, how about, George Steinbrenner, Rafael Palmeiro/Barry Bonds, and Joe Jackson/Pete Rose/Rothstein?

[Sultan_1895-1948]

I certainly agree.

3 Villians, how about, George Steinbrenner, Rafael Palmeiro/Barry Bonds, and Joe Jackson/Pete Rose/Rothstein?

I'd sooner put Comiskey on the mountain than have Shoeless anywhere near it. Steinbrenner only takes advantages of the system, although I don't really care for the guy. Palmeiro is just as much a tool as Sosa, McGwire, Bonds, Canseco, he doesn't stand out too much (although seeing his porn-stache high atop would be sweet). Rose...aahh, nah. Bonds might belong up there once he breaks Aaron's record, that would seal the deal for his deservidness.

[Wee Willie]

Although Cartwright is more likely the "father of baseball" than anyone else, I think all 4 guys should have recognizable faces - thus, they should all be players. I also think it's only fair to have at least one pitcher. That being said, the 4 should be:

Ruth
Cobb
Jackie Robinson
Walter Johnson

[west coast orange and black]

fair enough, wee willie. and, good call.
here are your four players.
hmm... maybe it's the caps, but it does make for a decent-looking hillside.

[sschirmer]

That's pretty awesome WCOB. Aren't you a sculptor of sorts? Maybe you could find a mountain and get to work on the real thing. All the BBF posters could come out and visit, it would be awesome!

[four tool]

Can't work on the mt. until we agree on all four. Can't see Walter just because there should be a pitcher. What about a catcher that developed the mask and shin guards?

[west coast orange and black]

That's pretty awesome WCOB. Aren't you a sculptor of sorts? Maybe you could find a mountain and get to work on the real thing. All the BBF posters could come out and visit, it would be awesome!thanx, man.
i wanted the babe's head to be tilted upwards, as is jefferson's. and i flipped the cobb image that i found so that he would face the "right" way.
i chisel marble for fun. it's a lotta work, but always more fun than work.

[sschirmer]

THik you can get the US Parks Commission to let you go to work on Half Dome?;)

[west coast orange and black]

i think that the dome is gorgeous just the way it is.

[Sirmudgeon]

I must beg to differ on all of these wonderful posts (and I do mean wonderful, I am enlightened by almost all of BF's posters on a daily basis, it renews my fascination for The Game). Jackie Robinson does not deserve a bust for being the first black guy to integrate. Yeah, he was really good, but luck in circumstance is kind of like winning the lottery, right place right time and all that. Force of character, full marks. But pantheonic status for being black and happening to be the first? Not. Put Satchel up there, then we're talking representative. Jackie doesn't even make the top 100 players if you exclude skin colour. Now, do you want to judge him as a ballplayer or as the first major league black ballplayer? Your call. To me, the latter is rather patronizing and racist in the extreme. If you want to include radical game changers, you could also put Candy Curveball Cummings, Ron 1st DH Blomberg and the bloody Astrodome up there.

Hard to argue with the Ruth/Cobb/Johnson/Wagner idolatry, and it might also be interesting to include iconic generational representatives:

Anson/Ruth/Mantle/Frank Robinson
Cobb/Williams or Mays or Musial/Schmidt/A-Rod
Grove/Dimaggio/Koufax or Gibson/Stew or Bonds

From mine own idisyncratic perspective, if I were to picture baseball in four faces, they would be Ruth, Paige, Cobb, and the Dave Stewart stare-in.

For founding father-type monumentalism, hard to go farther than that which has been posted, Ruth/Cobb/Wagner/Johnson.

[Wee Willie]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with what you said about Jackie. Jackie's accomplishments and place in baseball history are much more a result of his courage and inner strength than "luck in circumstance". Comparing the frequent hell of his experience to "winning the lottery" is invalid and trivializes the monumental responsibility he bore. And to say that paying such a tribute to Jackie smacks of racism is flat-out insulting. I put him on the mountain not because he was the "first black", but because he succeeded while knowing that his life and career were at risk day in and day out. He was the target of more hatred than any player before or since. The success of integration in baseball and other sports was dependent on how Jackie would respond to the slings and arrows of bigotry. He fought off the rage to retaltiate 1000 times for every time he lashed out. This ate at him tremendously and probably led to his early death. And there were the eyes of African-Americans constantly watching every move, and praying he didn't fail, since his success would be a frame of reference for building a more tolerant baseball community, which could lead to eventually a more tolerant country.

So no, it's not just about giving an "atta-boy" to someone who was in the right place at the right time. It's rewarding the person most responsible for engendering the most profound change in the cultural dynamic of the game.

And by the way, Robinson judged strictly as a player, is most certainly a top-100 player just by his on-the-field accomplishments. Just by being one of the top 6 or so second-baseman is enough to get you on that list. There have been other black players who were better, so if you went by just ability alone, I'd have someone like Aaron, Mays, Paige, or Gibson over Jackie.

But my main point is that Jackie's acheivements in his dealings with his enemies are what makes him an important figure in baseball and American history.

[shlevine42]

At this late date, nearly sixty years after Jackie's debut, I didn't think it would still be necessary to explain the significance of his accomplishment in changing the face of baseball -- and America.

Maybe to a visitor from another planet...but to a baseball fan... a student of the game? Astounding.

But apparently it is necessary.

Nice job, Willie. Thanks.

[west coast orange and black]

thanx, ww.
and despite being thought of by many as the better player, there is a reason why larry doby crossed the color lone four months after jackie.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

Sorry, but I completely disagree with what you said about Jackie. Jackie's accomplishments and place in baseball history are much more a result of his courage and inner strength than "luck in circumstance". Comparing the frequent hell of his experience to "winning the lottery" is invalid and trivializes the monumental responsibility he bore. And to say that paying such a tribute to Jackie smacks of racism is flat-out insulting. I put him on the mountain not because he was the "first black", but because he succeeded while knowing that his life and career were at risk day in and day out. He was the target of more hatred than any player before or since. The success of integration in baseball and other sports was dependent on how Jackie would respond to the slings and arrows of bigotry. He fought off the rage to retaltiate 1000 times for every time he lashed out. This ate at him tremendously and probably led to his early death. And there were the eyes of African-Americans constantly watching every move, and praying he didn't fail, since his success would be a frame of reference for building a more tolerant baseball community, which could lead to eventually a more tolerant country.

So no, it's not just about giving an "atta-boy" to someone who was in the right place at the right time. It's rewarding the person most responsible for engendering the most profound change in the cultural dynamic of the game.

And by the way, Robinson judged strictly as a player, is most certainly a top-100 player just by his on-the-field accomplishments. Just by being one of the top 6 or so second-baseman is enough to get you on that list. There have been other black players who were better, so if you went by just ability alone, I'd have someone like Aaron, Mays, Paige, or Gibson over Jackie.

But my main point is that Jackie's acheivements in his dealings with his enemies are what makes him an important figure in baseball and American history.

Well put. Top 100 player, top notch human being.

[Chisox]

Top 100 player.

Not in my book. Top 200, yes. I just can't put anyone in my top 100 with fewer than 1,000R and (meaning both) 1,000RBI.

But, back to the point. I agree with everything that Sirmudgeon said, but I think he has to realize that we are not celebrating the player, or even the man. We are celebrating an event that should have never have had to take place. Very few people could name even one stat of Jackie's without resorting the records (and I think that includes us.) All of us knows what his name is synonomous with, unfortunately.

[Wee Willie]

Not in my book. Top 200, yes. I just can't put anyone in my top 100 with fewer than 1,000R and (meaning both) 1,000RBI.

But, back to the point. I agree with everything that Sirmudgeon said, but I think he has to realize that we are not celebrating the player, or even the man. We are celebrating an event that should have never have had to take place. Very few people could name even one stat of Jackie's without resorting the records (and I think that includes us.) All of us knows what his name is synonomous with, unfortunately.
I am celebrating the man, and I think a lot of other people are, too. It was the man that made it possible. Great events need great men/women to bring them to fruition, and that's what Jackie did.

[shlevine42]

Not in my book. Top 200, yes. I just can't put anyone in my top 100 with fewer than 1,000R and (meaning both) 1,000RBI.

But, back to the point. I agree with everything that Sirmudgeon said, but I think he has to realize that we are not celebrating the player, or even the man. We are celebrating an event that should have never have had to take place. Very few people could name even one stat of Jackie's without resorting the records (and I think that includes us.) All of us knows what his name is synonomous with, unfortunately.

Of course we're celebrating the man -- a wonderful athlete and an amazingly courageous American.

Without the man, the event wouldn't have happened!

[PopTop]

My final four votes for players would go to Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson and Ted Williams. Maybe we could put some non-players under them like Alexander Cartwright, Happy Chandler, Ban Johnson and Marvin Miller.

I'd also have one carved into the limestone-crusted hills of the Texas Hill Country to honor a quartet from the Lone Star State: Rogers Hornsby, Frank Robinson, Ernie Banks and Nolan Ryan. :cool:

[serumgard]

Guys, I like the idea of a baseball Mount Rushmore (not that it'll ever happen). But wouldn't it be more reasonable to have 9 guys on the monument, symbolizing the 9 players on a team:

P - Roger Clemens (sorry, he's up there)
C - can't quite figure this one out
1B - Gehrig
2B - Robinson
3B - A-Rod
SS - Wagner
OF - Ruth
OF - Williams
OF - Mays

Just a thought.

[west coast orange and black]

"My final four votes for players would go to Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson and Ted Williams."

hereya go, poptop.

[west coast orange and black]

...wouldn't it be more reasonable to have 9 guys on the monument...we'd hafta move it over to the rockies or the sierra, but it could be done. ;)

[Chisox]

Of course we're celebrating the man -- a wonderful athlete and an amazingly courageous American.

Without the man, the event wouldn't have happened!

We are celebrating the EVENT that the man represents. If Larry Doby, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, or whoever was the first, then we would we celebrating him.

[Wee Willie]

We are celebrating the EVENT that the man represents. If Larry Doby, Willie Mays, Hank Aaron, or whoever was the first, then we would we celebrating him.
But they weren't the first. Jackie was. And again, it's much more about just being "the first". It was his character, fortitude, and perseverence that allowed him to triumph and succeed in an environment where many, many would have failed. Thus the man should be celebrated.

[shlevine42]

Willie has it right again.

When you focus on “the event,” you dismiss or ignore the role played by the man who made it happen... a man who endured race baiting, death threats and vicious attempts to drive him out of the game.

It took superhuman courage for Jackie to take the field each day, and incredible strength of character to withstand the abuse that was directed toward him. And in the face of all of that, it is simply amazing that he was able to perform at the level he did.

The bigotry aimed at Robinson was one of the most disgraceful chapters in baseball history; Jackie's courage, nobility and eventual success is one of the most thrilling, and, in my opinion, the single most significant achievement in the history of the game.

No baseball fan -- no American -- can question Robinson's place on baseball’s Mt. Rushmore.

[sschirmer]

thanx, ww.
and despite being thought of by many as the better player, there is a reason why larry doby crossed the color lone four months after jackie.

Other than the fact that Robinson played for the Dodgers and BR, what would that reason be?

[Barnstormer]

Other than the fact that Robinson played for the Dodgers and BR, what would that reason be?

I'm surprised that people are treating Jackie's breaking the color line as a random event, like winning the lottery, could have been anyone but Jackie just happened to be in the right place at the right time.

Rickey carefully chose Robinson, he needed someone with the baseball skills to be a star and also the character to be a hero/pioneer, the spirit to put up with years of abuse and come out standing.

Robinson: "Mr. Rickey, are you looking for a Negro who is afraid to fight back?"

Rickey: "I'm looking for a ballplayer with guts enough not to fight back."

Jackie Robinson was not an accident of history.

[west coast orange and black]

...Rickey carefully chose Robinson, he needed someone with the baseball skills to be a star and also the character to be a hero/pioneer, the spirit to put up with years of abuse and come out standing.

Jackie Robinson was not an accident of history.this is where i was going, stormer. thanx.

[Sultan_1895-1948]

"My final four votes for players would go to Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Jackie Robinson and Ted Williams."

hereya go, poptop.

Gotta love that classic Gehrig smile man, seems to appear in every picture he's in

[charlesblalack@yahoo.com]

babe ruth, ted williams, Ty Cobb, Jackie Robinson

[Chisox]

Willie has it right again.

When you focus on “the event,” you dismiss or ignore the role played by the man who made it happen... a man who endured race baiting, death threats and vicious attempts to drive him out of the game.

It took superhuman courage for Jackie to take the field each day, and incredible strength of character to withstand the abuse that was directed toward him. And in the face of all of that, it is simply amazing that he was able to perform at the level he did.

The bigotry aimed at Robinson was one of the most disgraceful chapters in baseball history; Jackie's courage, nobility and eventual success is one of the most thrilling, and, in my opinion, the single most significant achievement in the history of the game.

No baseball fan -- no American -- can question Robinson's place on baseball’s Mt. Rushmore.

When you dismiss the event, the man means nothing. I am not in any way shape or form dismissing the man, I am exaulting him because of the reasons you just mentioned. However, in order to do this, the event must be the focus. Only when you realize the importance of the event can you realize the importance of the man. Again, you are highliting the events surrounding the man, therefore putting the man in proper perspective, all without knowing it.

And yes, if it had not been Jackie, it would have been someone else; there always is. To say otherwise is to say that no-one else ever possesed what was necessary for such an event. Aaron, Robinson, Clemente were all capable in my mind. Bonds is a guy that I can imagine actually enjoying it. That in no-way shape or form diminishes Jackie. He is still the one who did it.

[The Dude]

Babe Ruth, Jackie Robinson, Hank Aaron, Cal Ripken Jr.

[Wee Willie]

When you dismiss the event, the man means nothing. I am not in any way shape or form dismissing the man, I am exaulting him because of the reasons you just mentioned. However, in order to do this, the event must be the focus. Only when you realize the importance of the event can you realize the importance of the man. Again, you are highliting the events surrounding the man, therefore putting the man in proper perspective, all without knowing it.

And yes, if it had not been Jackie, it would have been someone else; there always is. To say otherwise is to say that no-one else ever possesed what was necessary for such an event. Aaron, Robinson, Clemente were all capable in my mind. Bonds is a guy that I can imagine actually enjoying it. That in no-way shape or form diminishes Jackie. He is still the one who did it.
I don't think anyone's actually dismissing the event, though. My point was that "the event" has more to do with Jackie's having "the guts not to fight back" in an environment of extreme hatred than just him becoming "the first black". That's why he, the man, should be celebrated as an icon.

Sure, there would have been someone else. But who/when/where we can only speculate. If that someone else had to endure what Jackie did with the same grace/dignity, then he would certainly merit a spot on the mountain.

[Chisox]

I don't think anyone's actually dismissing the event, though. My point was that "the event" has more to do with Jackie's having "the guts not to fight back" in an environment of extreme hatred than just him becoming "the first black". That's why he, the man, should be celebrated as an icon.

Sure, there would have been someone else. But who/when/where we can only speculate. If that someone else had to endure what Jackie did with the same grace/dignity, then he would certainly merit a spot on the mountain.

We've finally come to an agreement. :clapping :clapping

[Sultan_1895-1948]

-----------------

[soberdennis]

I would put Ruth, Cobb, Robinson, and Cy Young.
We need a pitcher up there. Why not the winningest.
Did someone forget that pitching is 70% of the game.

[Eastvanmungo]

Alexander Cartwright
Babe Ruth
Cy Young
Jackie Robinson

Period.

[yankillaz]

Ummm. Nice question. Let's see what does Mt. Rushmore stands for?

George Washington-FIRST PRESIDENT
Thomas Jefferson-LEGISLATOR (THIRD PRESIDENT)
Abraham Lincoln-FREEDOM (CIVIL RIGHTS)
Theodore Roosvelt-POPULAR PRESIDENT (MOST KNOWN AT THE TIME)

In the history of baseball who can it be???

FIRST STAR: TY COBB (Although the nod has to go to Anson, i pick Cobb for Washington's face)

LEGISLATOR (Game Changing personality): BABE RUTH

FREEDOM: JACKIE ROBINSON (I would rather Aaron or Mays, but what the heck)

POPULARITY AT THE TIME: CAL RIPKEN JR. (Hate to admit this one, but as Teddy's face on Rushmore is not deserving, neither is this one).

[Outta Here]

I would put Ruth, Cobb, Robinson, and Cy Young.
Damn, u stole my 4 :eek:
Best hitter/Best Power hitter/Trailblazer/Winningest Pitcher & has unbeatable records still