Youth tryouts

[Newyouthcoach]

I was talking to a coach that I am friends with about how to handle a situation I was in with my son. When I started telling him about it, he had already heard about it from another coach. Granted the story was skewed a littlle because of him hearing it secondhand. The gist of the story was this: I took my son to five tryouts. 4 of the 5 teams asked him to become a player for them. We declined the offers, but I guess a couple of the coaches assumed since he was trying out and offered a spot we should have accepted. They didn't like the fact that I turned them down and obviously talked about this with other coaches.


I find this ludricris. I let my son tryout with them and let him give me imput to which team he wanted to play with. Some teams were eliminated from the mix because of the way they ran their tryout(very disorganized). One coach actually scared my son, he was a yeller. Just a note, we are talking about 9YO players. I don't think that it should be a one-way street in the process. I think that just because a player attends a tryout, he is not obligated to take a spot. Especially if something about the team makes him feel uncomfortable.

In the end, we picked a team where he gets to play with his buddy and the coach did not pressure us to play for him. He was the only one that took the time to talk to us and listen to our situation. He said that he would not look at any other kids until I gave him an answer. He actually got my vote right then but I didn't tell him until our agreed upon time to talk again.

My friend told me that some of the coaches were blasting me for taking him to all the tryouts.

Your thoughts?

[CoachW]

You handled it well and the coaches that blasted you didn't.

Move on.

[HYP]

As some one who helps run 11 teams in an academy. We generally invite certain kids to try out. We also, will have an open tryout for anyone.

If you went to each try out with the intent of your son playing and something didn't fit, while at the try out, I don't see a problem with what you did. My suggestion would have been to contact the coach as soon as you knew you were not going to be a part of the team. This way the coach can be prepared to move in a different direction.

I do not know what the coaches policy is as far as notifying kids if they made the team or not but he will learn to notify those who did make it first, ask for a commitment ASAP and then notify the ones who did not make the team. He should let the ones who didn't make it, know ASAP so they can look to go in another direction.

The players who make it hard on us are the ones who commit verbally and then pull out. Because the better players who didn't make it have already moved on to other teams.

[Newyouthcoach]

HYP,

I handled each tryout differently. One tryout that I was interested in, I told the coach that we were signed up for another tryout and wanted to make a decision afterwards. Since he was handling two different levels of play, he then tried to offer my son a place on the higher level team. I thanked him and told him we would still continue to look.

Another coach, I was pretty upfront with about the tryout and looking. He was very gracious about the tryout and my son's scores. He then took 3 days to get back to me. We discussed the results of the tryout and that he was waiting to get back to me because he was waiting to see if some one else accepted. That was a no brainer.

Only with one coach did I think that I could done a better job with. I was really liking him and so was my son. It wasn't until we had an interaction with the entire team that it was apparent that this was not a good fit. My son didn't like a couple of the kids, they were being mean to him and taunting him by constantly taking his hat. Even after he asked them to stop. He actually looked at me for the green light to react. He was about a foot taller than everyone on the team and about 25 lbs bigger. He didn't like how he was already fitting in. He asked could we go to the last tryout. It turned out his best buddy was trying out too. The coach wanted them both. I explained where we were in the process and told him that I felt like I needed to work it out with the other coach.

Another coach the "yeller" was easy to tell. He came to me after the tryout to say that he wanted to offer a position. I told him that I didn't feel comfortable with his coaching approach to my son's demeanor. I was never impolite or blaming.

[Jake Patterson]

HYP,

I handled each tryout differently. One tryout that I was interested in, I told the coach that we were signed up for another tryout and wanted to make a decision afterwards. Since he was handling two different levels of play, he then tried to offer my son a place on the higher level team. I thanked him and told him we would still continue to look.

Another coach, I was pretty upfront with about the tryout and looking. He was very gracious about the tryout and my son's scores. He then took 3 days to get back to me. We discussed the results of the tryout and that he was waiting to get back to me because he was waiting to see if some one else accepted. That was a no brainer.

Only with one coach did I think that I could done a better job with. I was really liking him and so was my son. It wasn't until we had an interaction with the entire team that it was apparent that this was not a good fit. My son didn't like a couple of the kids, they were being mean to him and taunting him by constantly taking his hat. Even after he asked them to stop. He actually looked at me for the green light to react. He was about a foot taller than everyone on the team and about 25 lbs bigger. He didn't like how he was already fitting in. He asked could we go to the last tryout. It turned out his best buddy was trying out too. The coach wanted them both. I explained where we were in the process and told him that I felt like I needed to work it out with the other coach.

Another coach the "yeller" was easy to tell. He came to me after the tryout to say that he wanted to offer a position. I told him that I didn't feel comfortable with his coaching approach to my son's demeanor. I was never impolite or blaming.
How old is your child???

[Jake Patterson]

How old is your child???
I re-read your post and see he's only nine??? Why in the world are you bringing him to so many tryouts? At this age I would be upset as a coach.. What are you wasting his time? Your homework should be done before the fact not after... What if all the kids did this???

This two-way street concept will eventually cost your son a spot he may really want.

[Newyouthcoach]

Jake,

I have only taken him to open tryouts. Most of the time there were 10 to 20 boys there as well. I would not take him to a private tryout. I was upfront with the coaches and never took him to any that we were not sincerely interested. I was also interested in how much he advanced over the season.

I still feel that there is no harm in doing it this one season. I do feel that picking a team is a two way street. I also know that I have had a serious talk with my son about this decision is a long term decision. I see the what you are saying if I did this year after year.

In my son's case, over the course of the last year, he has gone from being picked for a team because they didn't have enough players to being sought after in our area. I hope the lesson he learns from this is the benefits of hard work. He took it upon himself to get better. I don't think it wasted any coaches time.

[Jake Patterson]

I do feel that picking a team is a two way street. I also know that I have had a serious talk with my son about this decision is a long term decision. I see the what you are saying if I did this year after year.
New,
Respectfully, this statement seems problematic. At nine years old, it is my opinion that using terms like "long-term" and "serious talk" when discussing baseball with a child this age is about 6-7 years premature.

We don't need to bat this around. If you feel this is age appropriate for your son, then our philosophies and our experiences are mismatched.
Jake

[Rajun Cajun]

A tryout is not just a tryout for the child, but a tryout for the parents and the coaches.

The child may or may not like the experience

The parents may or may not like the experience

The coaching staff may not like the child, the parents, or both.

I think all interviews are a two-way street. I love going to ice cream parlors that let you try the flavor before you buy it. Who ever said the tryout was just for the coach anyway. This is a good opportunity for coaches to showcase their organizational and teaching ability and it gives the parents a chance to see how the coaches interact with the players. Heck, you might even get a look at some "daddy ball" during the tryout and that may help you in your decision-making.

Good players are coachable and make your team better.

Great parents make the experience a joy and will make games fun for all concerned.

It is the job of the coach to find and attract good players with great parents. If this happens you see committed and supportive families and that is a joy to see both on and off the field.

Remember, you, nor your kid are getting married to the youth baseball team. There aren't any long term decisions to be made. I would prefer if the coaches, parents, and players all commit to finnishing the season. In youth baseball, sometimes just finnishing the season is a lofty goal that is hard to achieve. keep your expectations in line with reality. Even baseball acadamies that make players sign commitment forms are a bit "too into it." You won't really know if you made the right "long term decision" until you see the team in action and see the coaches make game adjustments, etc. A good long term goal is one baseball season.

[Jake Patterson]

A tryout is not just a tryout for the child, but a tryout for the parents and the coaches.

The child may or may not like the experience

The parents may or may not like the experience

The coaching staff may not like the child, the parents, or both.

I think all interviews are a two-way street. I love going to ice cream parlors that let you try the flavor before you buy it. Who ever said the tryout was just for the coach anyway. This is a good opportunity for coaches to showcase their organizational and teaching ability and it gives the parents a chance to see how the coaches interact with the players. Heck, you might even get a look at some "daddy ball" during the tryout and that may help you in your decision-making.

Good players are coachable and make your team better.

Great parents make the experience a joy and will make games fun for all concerned.

It is the job of the coach to find and attract good players with great parents. If this happens you see committed and supportive families and that is a joy to see both on and off the field.While I understand what it is you are saying, and agree to a certain degree, I would offer that this understanding of what a try-out is will eventually hurt your son. the coaching world is a very small world and the word will get around. My advice, do your homework first and don't tryout for a team you do not expect to stay with.

[Rajun Cajun]

Private tryouts (with his team) are sometimes good ideas.

-lets you see how they will use your son
-lets you see the coach in action with his team

Private tryouts with coach and prospect are okay too. just be there to watch. On travel ball teams the coach may be looking for a kid that has specific skills. The only way to showcase them is in a one-on-one tryout. It can be okay. I wouldn't rule it out.

[Rajun Cajun]

While I understand what it is you are saying, and agree to a certain degree, I would offer that this understanding of what a try-out is will eventually hurt your son. the coaching world is a very small world and the word will get around. My advice, do your homework first and don't tryout for a team you do not expect to stay with.

I would definitely agree with that. Doing your homework and attending a tryout for a team you really hope to be a parrt of is much better than taking the shot-gun approach. I agree it is a small world. We all know the better players and the more difficult parents.

I also would't tell my son "we were trying out the team." That is unproductive and gives the boy the wrong impression.

On a few tryouts where iIdidn't know the coaches, just their game records, I kept a closer eye on the operation. If I knew the coaches I wasn't really evaluating them, I was checking out the competition and seeing how my son did.

[Newyouthcoach]

Ragin,

Jake is right about the word getting around with coaches. I seem to be getting that now. I am not too worried about it. I plan on handling it differently if we have to look for a new team next year. I have feeling that we are not going have to look.

Jake, Long term = to the end of next baseball season. I tolld my son that he was going to have to make a decision and stick with it. I know my son, he is afraid to disappoint people and will tell every coach he would play on their team if I let him. You are right he is just 9 YO, well he turned 10 last week.

[calgofo]

Ragin,

Jake is right about the word getting around with coaches. I seem to be getting that now. I am not too worried about it. I plan on handling it differently if we have to look for a new team next year. I have feeling that we are not going have to look.

Jake, Long term = to the end of next baseball season. I tolld my son that he was going to have to make a decision and stick with it. I know my son, he is afraid to disappoint people and will tell every coach he would play on their team if I let him. You are right he is just 9 YO, well he turned 10 last week.


Do what YOU think is best for you and your child. That's what eveeryone else is going to do.

[Ursa Major]

Well, you did what you did and can't undo it. I can see the coaches being a bit disappointed because they may have held a spot briefly 'open' for your son and lost another kid to another team in the interim. In the future, it would make sense to do some investigating before tryouts occur and keep the number of tryouts to 2 or 3.

But, the real problem is a system that has all these teams competing for kids that young. I can see having one or two elite teams in the area, but the rest should be in a league with a draft and a commissioner trying to make the teams relatively balanced in terms of skill level and key positions (i.e., each team should have a decent catcher). Otherwise, you have an incentive for top kids to all go to a top team and one team ends up crushing the otehrs in the area. And, as you note, you've got 10 year old kids being whipsawed among coaches in what should be just a fun, learning baseball age.

Again, it's "Dads Out of Control."

[KevinOK]

Having been through this tryout process more than once recently I concur that tryouts are a 2 way street. Doing your homework on coaches is not as easy as you'd think, especially if your somewhat new to an area.

Having coached several years I've never seen the small world of coaches.

Little league baseball is about as cut throat as you can get, especially in competitive.

I've heard of way to many coaches tell lies to parents(hearing this from the parents themselves and knowing it was complete BS) in order to get their little Johnny the following season to leave their current team and join their team.

I've seen tournament team only coaches dump player's mid-season. I know of one because a kid misssed a few practices and did not even care the kid's parent's were going through a divorce, leaving the kid with no baseball outlet. A little further looking into reveal that all along this was to pickup another kid who just moved to the area and was a good ball player.

There are alot of coaches that are good people and even some that are decent baseball coaches. Then there are those who are in it to win at all costs, kids be damed.

I witnessed one coach who had a tryout for a couple positions that opened up, decent team not great. The tryout response was overwelming with just about every kid there better than most on his team. I watch the coach basically cut his entire team from the previous season minus his kid and his assistants kids. I shook my head when learning of that one. I'm thankful that team was older than my son so we were there only to give an opinion to a parent who's older son was there trying out and was offered.

I watched another coach continually upgrade his talent and call parents back who's kid was already offered and tell a flat out lie that he mistakenly got his kid mixed up with another kid et al, this coached did this at least 3 times in 3 weeks, as better talent showed up in later tryouts. Another laugher of a coach.


Back to the subject.


I do think 2-3 tryouts should be plenty especially if you know one of the teams going in.

Personally I would not string any coaches out. If you plan on trying out with a couple teams within a week or so then that is fine. And if the first one offers then be up front and honest and tell him your son has one more tryout in a few days and you'll let him know at this point in time so he too can make plans.

If he does not want to wait then that is your answer.

Typically tryout offers are made with the expectation of an answer within 24 hours but most coaches fail to cover that upfront.

If the coach wants an answer on the spot then my advice is walk. Both sides should have time to think about the decision. Time is not in weekS however, days is fine, weekS is to long for coaches trying to put a team together.


Best wishes.

[Jake Patterson]

Keven, several thoughts

Having coached several years I've never seen the small world of coaches. having coached 25, I did and the higher you get the tighter it gets.

Little league baseball is about as cut throat as you can get, especially in competitive.
I've heard of way to many coaches tell lies to parents(hearing this from the parents themselves and knowing it was complete BS) in order to get their little Johnny the following season to leave their current team and join their team. Most LL's have bylaws that prevent this. We do not even pick assistant coaches until after the draft. This is not to say we do not get a few wingnuts.

I've seen tournament team only coaches dump player's mid-season. I know of one because a kid misssed a few practices and did not even care the kid's parent's were going through a divorce, leaving the kid with no baseball outlet. A little further looking into reveal that all along this was to pickup another kid who just moved to the area and was a good ball player. Most reasonable coaches would call a kid before cutting him. What is remarkable for me is these types of discussion when considering the context of the discussion... These players are only nine years old... fourth graders!


There are alot of coaches that are good people and even some that are decent baseball coaches. Then there are those who are in it to win at all costs, kids be damed. way to many!!


I witnessed one coach who had a tryout for a couple positions that opened up, decent team not great. The tryout response was overwelming with just about every kid there better than most on his team. I watch the coach basically cut his entire team from the previous season minus his kid and his assistants kids. I shook my head when learning of that one. I'm thankful that team was older than my son so we were there only to give an opinion to a parent who's older son was there trying out and was offered.This speaks directly to the character of the man.

[mudvnine]

But, the real problem is a system that has all these teams competing for kids that young. I can see having one or two elite teams in the area, but the rest should be in a league with a draft and a commissioner trying to make the teams relatively balanced in terms of skill level and key positions (i.e., each team should have a decent catcher). Otherwise, you have an incentive for top kids to all go to a top team and one team ends up crushing the otehrs in the area. And, as you note, you've got 10 year old kids being whipsawed among coaches in what should be just a fun, learning baseball age.

Again, it's "Dads Out of Control."

This is why it's called "Travel Ball", you take the best players from the area and TRAVEL to other areas to play their best players. The above is the reason TB has been so watered down over the past eight or nine years and the level of play of most teams now is that of a decent rec. league teams of years past.

Now were getting crap teams even in Majors and Elite, because the want to "play the best to challange their kids" . . . thanks, it really did our kids a world of good. :banghead:

New, you did fine, if those coaches got their feelings hurt because your son declined to play for them, then you don't want to be on their teams anyway. I've tried out 100s of kids over the years and have pick up some real outstanding ball players and had other excellent ones decide to play elsewhere . . . so what, in all the years of coaching, I've NEVER had one kid that made or broke the team, so it's really not that big of a deal in the long run.

Good luck to you and your son on whatever team you choose and don't look back for an instant on any of this tryout stuff, you did what you felt was best for your son and that's all that counts. Besides, if he plays as well as you say he does and with his size, they'll be banging in your door next shoud you just happen to mention that next season you MAY be thinking about changing teams and then watch all those coaches who are kicking you butt now, all of a sudden start kissing it . . . it's really pathetic how some of these so called coaches go about their business.

Ursa was finally right about one thing, it definitely is "Dads Out of Control". :dismay:

[Jake Patterson]

This is why it's called "Travel Ball", you take the best players from the area and TRAVEL to other areas to play their best players. The above is the reason TB has been so watered down over the past eight or nine years and the level of play of most teams now is that of a decent rec. league teams of years past.

Now were getting crap teams even in Majors and Elite, because the want to "play the best to challange their kids" . . . thanks, it really did our kids a world of good. :banghead:

New, you did fine, if those coaches got their feelings hurt because your son declined to play for them, then you don't want to be on their teams anyway. I've tried out 100s of kids over the years and have pick up some real outstanding ball players and had other excellent ones decide to play elsewhere . . . so what, in all the years of coaching, I've NEVER had one kid that made or broke the team, so it's really not that big of a deal in the long run.

Good luck to you and your son on whatever team you choose and don't look back for an instant on any of this tryout stuff, you did what you felt was best for your son and that's all that counts. Besides, if he plays as well as you say he does and with his size, they'll be banging in your door next shoud you just happen to mention that next season you MAY be thinking about changing teams and then watch all those coaches who are kicking you butt now, all of a sudden start kissing it . . . it's really pathetic how some of these so called coaches go about their business.

Ursa was finally right about one thing, it definitely is "Dads Out of Control". :dismay:

Reminder..... Nine years old!
Going with recent trends in youth baseball doesn't make it any less age appropriate. I can only wonder how you determine what's "crap" and what is not? What special skill do you have that can accurately determine a child's potential, emotional, physical, and athletic development? What do you base "crap" on? Their ability to win as nine year olds??? Is competing against this "crap" hold your exceptionally gifted child back? (Rhetorical) Come on give me a break - They're NINE!

We have all seen examples of children who are great players at nine who don't pan out at 18, and we have also seen the nine year old dandilion-picking-butt-scratchers into stellar stars!

These kids should be playing rec ball and maybe one short season of TB with their friends, nothing more. Anything that has the priorities indicated above, i.e. "elite," winning, etc., makes it about the parents and adults and NOT the children. The largest group of dads out of control are those who feel competitive ball at nine years old is THE priority.

Fifteen years of clinics, dozens of experts to include child psychologists, youth counselors, sports psychologists, child developmental experts, NOT ONE has said this competitive BS WE ADULTS have created is good for the emotional and psychological development of a nine year old child.

David Relin wrote this in 2005 for Parade. There are thousands of articles and studies which support his views. The ones who seem to refuse to read/hear/listen the most, are those so tie up in their own vicarious lives they fail to see. Trust me - been there and have done that. The advantage I have, in addition to coaching hundreds of kids over 40 season - who are all now adults, is I get to sit across a table with my own two boys (one nearly 30) and discussing what it was I did that was age IN-appropriate.
Enjoy!

Who’s Killing Kids’ Sports?By David Oliver Relin
Published: August 7, 2005

Two years ago, when he was still in high school, pro basketball prospect LeBron James inked an endorsement contract with Nike worth between $90 million and $100 million. Five days later, the $1 million contract Nike offered to Maryland soccer prodigy Freddy Adu seemed almost ordinary, except for one detail—Freddy was just 13 years old.

In the summer of 2003, Jeret Adair, a 15-year-old pitcher from Atlanta, started 64 games with his elite traveling baseball team—more than most pro players pitch in an entire season. After the ligament in his elbow snapped, he had to undergo reconstructive surgery, a process once reserved for aging professional pitchers. In 2004, his doctor, James Andrews, performed similar surgery on 50 other high school pitchers.

Last March, Valerie Yianacopolus of Wakefield, Mass., was sentenced to one year of probation, including 50 hours of community service, and ordered to watch a sportsmanship video after she was found guilty of assaulting an 11-year-old boy who was cheering for the opposing team at her son’s Little League game. And in June, according to state police, Mark Downs, the coach of a youth T-ball team near Uniontown, Pa., allegedly offered one of his players $25 to throw a baseball at the head of a 9-year-old disabled teammate so the injured boy wouldn’t be able to play in an upcoming game. League rules mandate that every healthy child play at least three innings. “The coach was very competitive,” said State Trooper Thomas B. Broadwater. “He wanted to win.”

A Sports Culture Run Amok
Across the country, millions of children are being chewed up and spit out by a sports culture run amok. With pro scouts haunting the nation’s playgrounds in search of the next LeBron or Freddy, parents and coaches are conspiring to run youth-sports leagues like incubators for future professional athletes. Prepubescent athletes are experimenting with performance-enhancing drugs. Doctors are reporting sharp spikes in injuries caused by year-round specialization in a single sport at an early age. And all too often, the simple pleasure of playing sports is being buried beneath cutthroat competition.

“If I had to sum up the crisis in kids’ sports,” says J. Duke Albanese, Maine’s former commissioner of education, “I’d do it in one word—adults.”

Some adults, Albanese says, are pushing children toward unrealistic goals like college sports scholarships and pro contracts. According to National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) statistics, fewer than 2% of high school athletes will ever receive a college athletic scholarship. Only one in 13,000 high school athletes will ever receive a paycheck from a professional team.

“There is a terrible imbalance between the needs kids have and the needs of the adults running their sports programs,” says Dr. Bruce Svare, director of the National Institute for Sports Reform. “Above all, kids need to have fun. Instead, adults are providing unrealistic expectations and crushing pressure.”

As a result, Svare says, at a time when an epidemic of obesity is plaguing the nation’s youth, 70% of America’s children are abandoning organized sports by age 13. “The only way to reverse this crisis,” Svare argues, “is to fundamentally rethink the way America’s kids play organized sports.”

Is Change Possible?
Many communities are trying to change the way they approach children’s sports. Florida’s Jupiter-Tequesta Athletic Association, facing a rash of violent behavior by sports parents, now requires them to take an online course on how to behave at their children’s athletic events. School officials in Connecticut, concerned about the toll of too much focus on a single sport, instituted a statewide ban on students playing on a private travel team during the same season they play their sport in high school.

But no reform effort is more aggressive than that of the state of Maine, where educators, student athletes and others have teamed up to launch a counterrevolution called Sports Done Right. Led by J. Duke Albanese and Robert Cobb, dean of the University of Maine’s College of Education, and funded by a federal grant secured by U.S. Sen. Susan M. Collins, the project aims to radically remake Maine’s youth-sports culture and provide a model that the rest of America might emulate.

The Maine Challenge
Their first step is a sweeping campaign to dial down the kind of competition that leads many kids to drop out of sports at an early age. “I was a high school football coach—I know how badly communities want their teams to win,” Albanese says. “We’re not saying there’s anything wrong with competition. We’re saying what’s appropriate at the varsity level is out of bounds in grade school and middle school. That’s a time to encourage as many children as possible to play. Period.

”To do that, the Sports Done Right team held statewide summit meetings before producing an action plan. It chose 12 school districts as the program’s pilot sites, but so many other districts clamored to participate that it is now under way in dozens more.

The program has identified core principles that it insists must be present in a healthy sports environment for kids, including good sportsmanship, discouragement of early specialization and the assurance that teams below the varsity level make it their mission to develop the skills of every child on every team, to promote a lifelong involvement with sports.

Sports Done Right’s second task is to attack the two problems it says are most responsible for the crisis in kids’ sports—the behavior of parents and coaches.

Problem #1: Out-of-Control Adults
The behavior of adults has been at the center of the debate about reforming kids’ sports ever since 2002, when Thomas Junta of Reading, Mass., was convicted of beating Michael Costin to death during an argument at their sons’ youth hockey practice. “I’ve watched adult civility in youth sports spiral downward since the early 1990s,” says Doug Abrams, a law professor at the University of Missouri, who has tracked media reports of out-of-control sports parents for more than a decade. “At one time, adults who acted like lunatics were shunned as outcasts. But today, they are too often tolerated.”

The nearly 100 Maine students Parade interviewed recited a litany of incidents involving adults behaving badly, including examples of their own parents being removed from sporting events by police. Nate Chantrill, 17—a shot-putter and discus thrower at Edward Little High School in Auburn and a varsity football player—volunteers to coach a coed fifth-grade football team. “One game, a parent flipped out that we didn’t start his daughter,” Chantrill recalls. “He was screaming, using bad language and saying she’s the best player out there. Parents take this stuff way too seriously. Fifth-grade football is not the Super Bowl. It’s a place for your kid to learn some skills and have fun. One parent can ruin it for all the kids.”

That’s why each Sports Done Right district is holding training sessions to define out-of-bounds behavior at sporting events and requiring the parents of every student who plays to sign a compact promising to abide by higher standards of sportsmanship.

Problem #2: Poor Coaching
Dan Campbell, who has coached Edward Little’s track team to two state championships, says he sees too many of his peers pressing to win at all costs and neglecting their primary responsibility—to educate and inspire children. “One coach can destroy a kid for a lifetime,” he says. “I’ve seen it over and over.”

“I was at an AAU basketball game where the ref gave the coach a technical and threw him out of the game,” says Doug Joerss, who was starting center on Cony High School’s basketball team. “Then the coach swung at the ref. The kids ended up on the floor, getting into a huge brawl. You look up to coaches. Kids think, ‘If it’s OK for them to do it, it’s OK for me to do it.’ ”

A campaign to improve the quality of coaching is at the center of Sports Done Right. “The most powerful mentors kids have are coaches,” J. Duke Albanese says. “Coaches don’t even realize the extent of their influence.” He disparages the national trend to offer coaches salary incentives based on their won-lost records. Instead, Sports Done Right recommends compensation based on their level of training. And each pilot school district is encouraged to send coaches to continuing-education classes in subjects like leadership and child psychology.

Exporting Good Sense
Educators in 30 states have requested more information from Sports Done Right. “We think a small place like Maine is a perfect place to get kids’ sports culture under control,” says Albanese. “And if we can do that, maybe we can export the good sense Maine is famous for to the rest of the country.”

An example of that good sense recently occurred at a Sports Done Right pilot site. “An influential parent, a guy who volunteers to coach sixth-grade basketball, wanted the kids divided into an A and a B team, so he could coach just the elite kids,” says Stephen Rogers, the principal of Lyman Moore Middle School. “I said we weren’t going to separate the kids and discourage half of them. We were going to encourage all of our interested kids to play.”

“But we won’t win the championship,” the parent complained.

“I don’t really care,” Rogers replied. “We’re not talking about the Celtics. We’re talking about sixth-graders.”
________________________________________
How To Be a Good Sports Parent

Fixing the crisis in kids’ sports begins at home. Here are some tips from Sports Done Right to get parents started:

* Encourage your child, regardless of his or her degree of success or level of skill.

* Ensure a balance in your student athlete’s life, encouraging participation in multiple sports and activities while placing academics first.

* Emphasize enjoyment, development of skills and team play as the cornerstones of your child’s early sports experiences while reserving serious competition for the varsity level.

* Leave coaching to coaches and avoid placing too much pressure on your youngster about playing time and performance.

* Be realistic about your child’s future in sports, recognizing that only a select few earn a college scholarship, compete in the Olympics or sign a professional contract.

* Be there when your child looks to the sidelines for a positive role model.

[FiveFrameSwing]

I re-read your post and see he's only nine??? Why in the world are you bringing him to so many tryouts? At this age I would be upset as a coach.. What are you wasting his time? Your homework should be done before the fact not after... What if all the kids did this???

This two-way street concept will eventually cost your son a spot he may really want.

I disagree.

A tryout is a two-way street. The kids (and often the parents) are being observed by the coaches … it’s a tryout. Likewise, the coaches are being observed by the kids & their parents … again, it’s a tryout.

As long as things are communicated well then there should be no issues.

My kid is playing 2nd-year 18Gold. Attended 3 tryouts and received 4 invites.

IMO, the advice should be to make a wise decision. Attending as many tryouts as you can, can help in making a wise decision.

Think of it this way. The kid is about to make a one-year commitment to a team ... so it pays to evaluate the options wisely.

[Jake Patterson]

I disagree. ok...


A tryout is a two-way street. The kids (and often the parents) are being observed by the coaches … it’s a tryout. Likewise, the coaches are being observed by the kids & their parents … again, it’s a tryoutDisagree... You are trying out for the team... Not the coach trying out to become your son's coach. We will disagree on this and it is apparent I see this very different than some forumers... that's Ok. I would offer however, this trend, in my opinion, is a further indication of how TB is changing youth baseball, and it is my contention it does the game and its potential as a "game" a disservice.


As long as things are communicated well then there should be no issues. If a parent came to me and said he was bringing his son to one of my try outs to see if he feels me and my team are a match for him and his dad I would DEFINATELY tell him not to bother.


My kid is playing 2nd-year 18Gold. Attended 3 tryouts and received 4 invites. I see 18 year old somewhat different than 9 year olds


IMO, the advice should be to make a wise decision. Attending as many tryouts as you can, can help in making a wise decision.Think of it this way. The kid is about to make a one-year commitment to a team ... so it pays to evaluate the options wisely. I wish you well with that...

[skipper5]

"you did what you felt was best for your son and that's all that counts."

Since I'm not providing context, I'm not naming the poster, to be fair.

However, taken alone, the sentiment expressed in the quote is the precursor of parents-as-advocates and helicopter-dads, which plague high school sports these days.

It also is provides daddies with the justification for daddyball.

I'm old enough to remember when dads (or moms) signed the sports permission form, maybe showed up at the events or games, and that was about it for parental involvement.

Many things about life in 2009 are better than 1969, but parents-as-advocates is not one of those things.

[mudvnine]

Reminder..... Nine years old!
Going with recent trends in youth baseball doesn't make it any less age appropriate. I can only wonder how you determine what's "crap" and what is not? What special skill do you have that can accurately determine a child's potential, emotional, physical, and athletic development? What do you base "crap" on? Their ability to win as nine year olds??? Is competing against this "crap" hold your exceptionally gifted child back? (Rhetorical) Come on give me a break - They're NINE!

We have all seen examples of children who are great players at nine who don't pan out at 18, and we have also seen the nine year old dandilion-picking-butt-scratchers into stellar stars!

These kids should be playing rec ball and maybe one short season of TB with their friends, nothing more. Anything that has the priorities indicated above, i.e. "elite," winning, etc., makes it about the parents and adults and NOT the children. The largest group of dads out of control are those who feel competitive ball at nine years old is THE priority.

Fifteen years of clinics, dozens of experts to include child psychologists, youth counselors, sports psychologists, child developmental experts, NOT ONE has said this competitive BS WE ADULTS have created is good for the emotional and psychological development of a nine year old child.


Jake, you are right, I was basing my frustration on the older ages I coach (14U and above) . . . personally I think TB for kids under 12 is ridiculous and where the "daddy ball" stuff has taken things. Years back there were very little (if any) TB teams below the 12U age category, or at least as I remember it . . . it's been quite a few years now. :shhh:

As far as determining "crap", if you've really coached for 25 years, I'm surprised you have to ask how one might determine that. You mean to tell me that when you play a team, that after the first couple of innings you can't tell by looking at their fundamentals and how they play and the coaches handle the various situations, you can't tell what kind of team you're up against?

Hell, there are some teams that just by watching how they warm up pre-game, you can tell what kind of team they are. It ain't rocket science . . . :disbelief:

BTW, whether or not my child is "exceptionally gifted" or not, is not the reason I coach or how or why I manage my teams the way I do . . . I even coach teams that I don't have a child playing on, so what's your point (yes, rhetorical also)? :rolleyes: :mad:

[Jake Patterson]

Jake, you are right, I was basing my frustration on the older ages I coach (14U and above) . . . personally I think TB for kids under 12 is ridiculous and where the "daddy ball" stuff has taken things. Years back there were very little (if any) TB teams below the 12U age category, or at least as I remember it . . . it's been quite a few years now. :shhh: I feel we agree on more than we disagree.


As far as determining "crap", if you've really coached for 25 years, I'm surprised you have to ask how one might determine that. the question is out of context... I was speaking about 9 y/o's not HS players or post-pubescent players. At nine - no one can tell with any certainty.


You mean to tell me that when you play a team, that after the first couple of innings you can't tell by looking at their fundamentals and how they play and the coaches handle the various situations, you can't tell what kind of team you're up against?

Hell, there are some teams that just by watching how they warm up pre-game, you can tell what kind of team they are. It ain't rocket science . . . :disbelief: Again, out of context. See above comment.


BTW, whether or not my child is "exceptionally gifted" or not, is not the reason I coach or how or why I manage my teams the way I do . . . I even coach teams that I don't have a child playing on, so what's your point (yes, rhetorical also)? :rolleyes: :mad: The point was... it sounded like a comment made by a dad who felt other 9 y/o's are not worthy to be playing on the same field as his exceptionally talented 9 y/o son. If I took it out of context then I apologize.

[mudvnine]

Yup, pretty much out of context for both of us. We were basing an Internet discussion on apples and oranges (imagine that ;)) . . . if speaking the same age levels, then I agree, we're probably not too far off in the big scheme of things. :highfive:


So what's your thought of 9 y/o "travel ball"? In you opinion, when is TB age appropriate for kids?

[Jake Patterson]

Yup, pretty much out of context for both of us. We were basing an Internet discussion on apples and oranges (imagine that ;)) . . . if speaking the same age levels, then I agree, we're probably not too far off in the big scheme of things. :highfive:


So what's your thought of 9 y/o "travel ball"? In you opinion, Overall, ridiculous... BUT if they have a team made up of friends and want to play a few weekend tourneys, I'm not certain I have a problem.
BS like the USSSA 9 y/o National Championships is utterly absurd.


when is TB age appropriate for kids?12-14 years old. By High school I advocate, spring school season and summer ball (Legion), then shut it down in the fall.

[mudvnine]

Overall, ridiculous... BUT if they have a team made up of friends and want to play a few weekend tourneys, I'm not certain I have a problem.
BS like the USSSA 9 y/o National Championships is utterly absurd.

12-14 years old. By High school I advocate, spring school season and summer ball (Legion), then shut it down in the fall.

See, we are on the same page . . . I agree 100% with the age parameters as you define them. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

[Jake Patterson]

See, we are on the same page . . . I agree 100% with the age parameters as you define them. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
See??? Like minds think alike!

[coach scotty]

ME ME ME MY MY MY: not hard to see the travel ball influence. If you marry a woman that cheated on her husband with you then don't be shocked when she cheats on you. If you want your kid to play in a world of tryouts and cuts for 12U kids then don't be shocked when your kid gets cut for a better kid.

Maybe I'm just old but I think players should try out for teams not the other way around.

[coach scotty]

Reminder..... Nine years old!
Going with recent trends in youth baseball doesn't make it any less age appropriate. I can only wonder how you determine what's "crap" and what is not? What special skill do you have that can accurately determine a child's potential, emotional, physical, and athletic development? What do you base "crap" on? Their ability to win as nine year olds??? Is competing against this "crap" hold your exceptionally gifted child back? (Rhetorical) Come on give me a break - They're NINE!

We have all seen examples of children who are great players at nine who don't pan out at 18, and we have also seen the nine year old dandilion-picking-butt-scratchers into stellar stars!

These kids should be playing rec ball and maybe one short season of TB with their friends, nothing more. Anything that has the priorities indicated above, i.e. "elite," winning, etc., makes it about the parents and adults and NOT the children. The largest group of dads out of control are those who feel competitive ball at nine years old is THE priority.

Fifteen years of clinics, dozens of experts to include child psychologists, youth counselors, sports psychologists, child developmental experts, NOT ONE has said this competitive BS WE ADULTS have created is good for the emotional and psychological development of a nine year old child.

David Relin wrote this in 2005 for Parade. There are thousands of articles and studies which support his views. The ones who seem to refuse to read/hear/listen the most, are those so tie up in their own vicarious lives they fail to see. Trust me - been there and have done that. The advantage I have, in addition to coaching hundreds of kids over 40 season - who are all now adults, is I get to sit across a table with my own two boys (one nearly 30) and discussing what it was I did that was age IN-appropriate.
Enjoy!

Who’s Killing Kids’ Sports?By David Oliver Relin
Published: August 7, 2005

Two years ago, when he was still in high school, pro basketball prospect LeBron James inked an endorsement contract with Nike worth between $90 million and $100 million. Five days later, the $1 million contract Nike offered to Maryland soccer prodigy Freddy Adu seemed almost ordinary, except for one detail—Freddy was just 13 years old.

In the summer of 2003, Jeret Adair, a 15-year-old pitcher from Atlanta, started 64 games with his elite traveling baseball team—more than most pro players pitch in an entire season. After the ligament in his elbow snapped, he had to undergo reconstructive surgery, a process once reserved for aging professional pitchers. In 2004, his doctor, James Andrews, performed similar surgery on 50 other high school pitchers.

Last March, Valerie Yianacopolus of Wakefield, Mass., was sentenced to one year of probation, including 50 hours of community service, and ordered to watch a sportsmanship video after she was found guilty of assaulting an 11-year-old boy who was cheering for the opposing team at her son’s Little League game. And in June, according to state police, Mark Downs, the coach of a youth T-ball team near Uniontown, Pa., allegedly offered one of his players $25 to throw a baseball at the head of a 9-year-old disabled teammate so the injured boy wouldn’t be able to play in an upcoming game. League rules mandate that every healthy child play at least three innings. “The coach was very competitive,” said State Trooper Thomas B. Broadwater. “He wanted to win.”

A Sports Culture Run Amok
Across the country, millions of children are being chewed up and spit out by a sports culture run amok. With pro scouts haunting the nation’s playgrounds in search of the next LeBron or Freddy, parents and coaches are conspiring to run youth-sports leagues like incubators for future professional athletes. Prepubescent athletes are experimenting with performance-enhancing drugs. Doctors are reporting sharp spikes in injuries caused by year-round specialization in a single sport at an early age. And all too often, the simple pleasure of playing sports is being buried beneath cutthroat competition.

“If I had to sum up the crisis in kids’ sports,” says J. Duke Albanese, Maine’s former commissioner of education, “I’d do it in one word—adults.”

Some adults, Albanese says, are pushing children toward unrealistic goals like college sports scholarships and pro contracts. According to National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) statistics, fewer than 2% of high school athletes will ever receive a college athletic scholarship. Only one in 13,000 high school athletes will ever receive a paycheck from a professional team.

“There is a terrible imbalance between the needs kids have and the needs of the adults running their sports programs,” says Dr. Bruce Svare, director of the National Institute for Sports Reform. “Above all, kids need to have fun. Instead, adults are providing unrealistic expectations and crushing pressure.”

As a result, Svare says, at a time when an epidemic of obesity is plaguing the nation’s youth, 70% of America’s children are abandoning organized sports by age 13. “The only way to reverse this crisis,” Svare argues, “is to fundamentally rethink the way America’s kids play organized sports.”

Is Change Possible?
Many communities are trying to change the way they approach children’s sports. Florida’s Jupiter-Tequesta Athletic Association, facing a rash of violent behavior by sports parents, now requires them to take an online course on how to behave at their children’s athletic events. School officials in Connecticut, concerned about the toll of too much focus on a single sport, instituted a statewide ban on students playing on a private travel team during the same season they play their sport in high school.

But no reform effort is more aggressive than that of the state of Maine, where educators, student athletes and others have teamed up to launch a counterrevolution called Sports Done Right. Led by J. Duke Albanese and Robert Cobb, dean of the University of Maine’s College of Education, and funded by a federal grant secured by U.S. Sen. Susan M. Collins, the project aims to radically remake Maine’s youth-sports culture and provide a model that the rest of America might emulate.

The Maine Challenge
Their first step is a sweeping campaign to dial down the kind of competition that leads many kids to drop out of sports at an early age. “I was a high school football coach—I know how badly communities want their teams to win,” Albanese says. “We’re not saying there’s anything wrong with competition. We’re saying what’s appropriate at the varsity level is out of bounds in grade school and middle school. That’s a time to encourage as many children as possible to play. Period.

”To do that, the Sports Done Right team held statewide summit meetings before producing an action plan. It chose 12 school districts as the program’s pilot sites, but so many other districts clamored to participate that it is now under way in dozens more.

The program has identified core principles that it insists must be present in a healthy sports environment for kids, including good sportsmanship, discouragement of early specialization and the assurance that teams below the varsity level make it their mission to develop the skills of every child on every team, to promote a lifelong involvement with sports.

Sports Done Right’s second task is to attack the two problems it says are most responsible for the crisis in kids’ sports—the behavior of parents and coaches.

Problem #1: Out-of-Control Adults
The behavior of adults has been at the center of the debate about reforming kids’ sports ever since 2002, when Thomas Junta of Reading, Mass., was convicted of beating Michael Costin to death during an argument at their sons’ youth hockey practice. “I’ve watched adult civility in youth sports spiral downward since the early 1990s,” says Doug Abrams, a law professor at the University of Missouri, who has tracked media reports of out-of-control sports parents for more than a decade. “At one time, adults who acted like lunatics were shunned as outcasts. But today, they are too often tolerated.”

The nearly 100 Maine students Parade interviewed recited a litany of incidents involving adults behaving badly, including examples of their own parents being removed from sporting events by police. Nate Chantrill, 17—a shot-putter and discus thrower at Edward Little High School in Auburn and a varsity football player—volunteers to coach a coed fifth-grade football team. “One game, a parent flipped out that we didn’t start his daughter,” Chantrill recalls. “He was screaming, using bad language and saying she’s the best player out there. Parents take this stuff way too seriously. Fifth-grade football is not the Super Bowl. It’s a place for your kid to learn some skills and have fun. One parent can ruin it for all the kids.”

That’s why each Sports Done Right district is holding training sessions to define out-of-bounds behavior at sporting events and requiring the parents of every student who plays to sign a compact promising to abide by higher standards of sportsmanship.

Problem #2: Poor Coaching
Dan Campbell, who has coached Edward Little’s track team to two state championships, says he sees too many of his peers pressing to win at all costs and neglecting their primary responsibility—to educate and inspire children. “One coach can destroy a kid for a lifetime,” he says. “I’ve seen it over and over.”

“I was at an AAU basketball game where the ref gave the coach a technical and threw him out of the game,” says Doug Joerss, who was starting center on Cony High School’s basketball team. “Then the coach swung at the ref. The kids ended up on the floor, getting into a huge brawl. You look up to coaches. Kids think, ‘If it’s OK for them to do it, it’s OK for me to do it.’ ”

A campaign to improve the quality of coaching is at the center of Sports Done Right. “The most powerful mentors kids have are coaches,” J. Duke Albanese says. “Coaches don’t even realize the extent of their influence.” He disparages the national trend to offer coaches salary incentives based on their won-lost records. Instead, Sports Done Right recommends compensation based on their level of training. And each pilot school district is encouraged to send coaches to continuing-education classes in subjects like leadership and child psychology.

Exporting Good Sense
Educators in 30 states have requested more information from Sports Done Right. “We think a small place like Maine is a perfect place to get kids’ sports culture under control,” says Albanese. “And if we can do that, maybe we can export the good sense Maine is famous for to the rest of the country.”

An example of that good sense recently occurred at a Sports Done Right pilot site. “An influential parent, a guy who volunteers to coach sixth-grade basketball, wanted the kids divided into an A and a B team, so he could coach just the elite kids,” says Stephen Rogers, the principal of Lyman Moore Middle School. “I said we weren’t going to separate the kids and discourage half of them. We were going to encourage all of our interested kids to play.”

“But we won’t win the championship,” the parent complained.

“I don’t really care,” Rogers replied. “We’re not talking about the Celtics. We’re talking about sixth-graders.”
________________________________________
How To Be a Good Sports Parent

Fixing the crisis in kids’ sports begins at home. Here are some tips from Sports Done Right to get parents started:

* Encourage your child, regardless of his or her degree of success or level of skill.

* Ensure a balance in your student athlete’s life, encouraging participation in multiple sports and activities while placing academics first.

* Emphasize enjoyment, development of skills and team play as the cornerstones of your child’s early sports experiences while reserving serious competition for the varsity level.

* Leave coaching to coaches and avoid placing too much pressure on your youngster about playing time and performance.

* Be realistic about your child’s future in sports, recognizing that only a select few earn a college scholarship, compete in the Olympics or sign a professional contract.

* Be there when your child looks to the sidelines for a positive role model.

Just to play a little devils advocate here Jake but isn't the current crop of youth athletes the first generation of the entitlement athletes? Aren't all the groups now having all the problems the first group of participation trophy getters? When I was a kid many years ago I don't remember all these problems and we were very competitive. Heck rec ball was so competitive there was no need for travel.

[Jake Patterson]

Just to play a little devils advocate here Jake but isn't the current crop of youth athletes the first generation of the entitlement athletes? Aren't all the groups now having all the problems the first group of participation trophy getters? When I was a kid many years ago I don't remember all these problems and we were very competitive. Heck rec ball was so competitive there was no need for travel. I played in the late 50's-60's... We had LL and Babe Ruth. Everything else was done on a neighborhood lot.

I do not believe it this generation of players who are the problem, I believe it's this generation of the parents. Studies have been conducted that discuss on our society's "Instant gratification," "Lottery" mentality. One only needs to look at the rise of the number of casinos in our country, the gambling problems we have, the reality shows we watch, and the growth of the lotteries to see the popularity of the instant "make me rich" mentality is on the rise. Everyone seems to be looking for that "no-work," million dollar hit.

Part of that now manifests itself with our children. Parents look at little Bobby who happens to have a little bit of talent and feel he's the one. AND we do this at their emotional and developmental expense.

[shake-n-bake]

We have all seen examples of children who are great players at nine who don't pan out at 18, and we have also seen the nine year old dandilion-picking-butt-scratchers into stellar stars!

Yeah, and it's also possible to see balding, fat guys with hair on their back become balarinas and cute as a bug, petite, dance-junkie kids not make it.

That's really not my point though. Parents seem to be more wrapped up in the importance of level of competition at younger and younger ages and what their kid's percieved relative status among those kids is.

I've got no problem with strivng to get better competition to put a kid's improvement on the fast track. If your 6th grader has exceptional math skills you'd be on board with putting them in 7th or 8th grade math.

There's just not much glory in being the smartest 6th grader in the school, except when that becomes the kid's expectation of themselves from there on. However, if the family treats it as though the kid has already made it and everyone relaxes their intensity the smartest 6th grader becomes a B average party animal in HS.

My kid has some sports talent, but he knows that what's important is continuing to improve. Sunday he resumed pitching and struck out the side in one inning of work. His mom was really proud and giddy on the way home. We were a little more reserved. He went to a 3-2 count on 2 of the 3 Ks against the bottom of the order of a less than stellar fall team. What I stressed as important was that his shoulder felt good and he made some pitches when he had to. If he'd pitched against the middle of the order of a club team what I'd have stressed was important was that his shoulder felt good and he made some pitches when he had to.

You see a lot of kids that act like they've already made it because they're good at whatever youth level they play. My son has vowed to me a thousand times that will never be him. We live a different culture. Having fun isn't contingent on performance though he always strives to play well. Then again we practice a lot and the 2.5 hours of game time importance compared to practice doesn't mean much at all. You don't get there by dreaming it.

[coach scotty]

I played in the late 50's-60's... We had LL and Babe Ruth. Everything else was done on a neighborhood lot.

I do not believe it this generation of players who are the problem, I believe it's this generation of the parents. Studies have been conducted that discuss on our society's "Instant gratification," "Lottery" mentality. One only needs to look at the rise of the number of casinos in our country, the gambling problems we have, the reality shows we watch, and the growth of the lotteries to see the popularity of the instant "make me rich" mentality is on the rise. Everyone seems to be looking for that "no-work," million dollar hit.

Part of that now manifests itself with our children. Parents look at little Bobby who happens to have a little bit of talent and feel he's the one. AND we do this at their emotional and developmental expense.


Yeah I guess the real difference I see in youth sports today than what I remember when I played is that the competitive nature used to come from the field and now it comes from the stands.

I just don't understand why everyone keeps trying to come up with something "new" as a way to mold our youth. A new way to educate, a new way to raise our kids, a new way to run youth sports. Heck the greatest generation IMO is one of the few generations that truly deserves the title. Maybe we should run things more like they were run for them. I may not agree with all the ways my grandfather was brought up but apparently they did something right. I would much rather my children act like people from his generation than mine.

[scorekeeper]

Yeah I guess the real difference I see in youth sports today than what I remember when I played is that the competitive nature used to come from the field and now it comes from the stands. . . .

After 3 years completely away from the game, my boy has been helping with the HS fall ball pitchers. I’ve noticed he’s taken a bit more of an interest in one of the boys who pitched in last night’s game, and I made the comment that what it seemed like he needed, was to smoke a joint before he pitched, to get him to chill out.

My kid reminded me pretty matter-of-factly, that he was exactly the same way when he was pitching. I have to admit, I’d forgotten, but when I thought about it a bit, sure enough when he pitched, he was pretty manic. Not in a running around waving his arms and screaming way, but in a way that said he was in a hurry to throw the next pitch because somehow, the last one wasn’t as good as it could be.

So I asked my boy what he thought was the reason for that. “Its simple”, he told me. “The kid wants to do well so bad, he can’t wait to throw the next pitch to try to get the batter out.”

I mulled that over a bit, then asked why the other kids didn’t display much of that. He went right down the list of pitchers on the team, and gave his opinion about which ones really wanted to be out there on the mound and shove it right up the batter’s butts, to the ones who really couldn’t care less if they had a great outing, or got the snot knocked out of them or couldn’t find the plate with a flashlight.

As he named the kids off, I couldn’t help but think how one of his strongest attributes, and one recognized by almost everyone when he was pitching, was that he took every pitch to every batter as a personal challenge, and he absolutely hated to lose challenges.

He went on to say that most of the kids just didn’t care very much, one way or the other, and after searching for the right words, finally said they had no fire. Sure they wanted to do well and win, but if they didn’t, it wasn’t any big deal. I thought back again and remembered how he was when he lost a game or didn’t do well. He was absolutely miserable to be around!

It wasn’t that he hated to lose as much as he hated to perform poorly. IOW, he had a tremendous pride of performance that he doesn’t see in many kids on the team. I reminded him that not all the kids he played with were like that too, and he almost spat an answer at me. “That’s why no one on the team liked those B#$&!@*%s"!:hissyfit:


I told him that if he really believed that, the best thing he could do for the players and the team, was to try to figure out how to get fire in those kid’s bellies. He shook his head and told me that it would be simple if he could just get the parents to leave the kids alone. :(

[shake-n-bake]

After 3 years completely away from the game, my boy has been helping with the HS fall ball pitchers. I’ve noticed he’s taken a bit more of an interest in one of the boys who pitched in last night’s game, and I made the comment that what it seemed like he needed, was to smoke a joint before he pitched, to get him to chill out.

My kid reminded me pretty matter-of-factly, that he was exactly the same way when he was pitching. I have to admit, I’d forgotten, but when I thought about it a bit, sure enough when he pitched, he was pretty manic. Not in a running around waving his arms and screaming way, but in a way that said he was in a hurry to throw the next pitch because somehow, the last one wasn’t as good as it could be.

So I asked my boy what he thought was the reason for that. “Its simple”, he told me. “The kid wants to do well so bad, he can’t wait to throw the next pitch to try to get the batter out.”

I mulled that over a bit, then asked why the other kids didn’t display much of that. He went right down the list of pitchers on the team, and gave his opinion about which ones really wanted to be out there on the mound and shove it right up the batter’s butts, to the ones who really couldn’t care less if they had a great outing, or got the snot knocked out of them or couldn’t find the plate with a flashlight.

As he named the kids off, I couldn’t help but think how one of his strongest attributes, and one recognized by almost everyone when he was pitching, was that he took every pitch to every batter as a personal challenge, and he absolutely hated to lose challenges.

He went on to say that most of the kids just didn’t care very much, one way or the other, and after searching for the right words, finally said they had no fire. Sure they wanted to do well and win, but if they didn’t, it wasn’t any big deal. I thought back again and remembered how he was when he lost a game or didn’t do well. He was absolutely miserable to be around!

It wasn’t that he hated to lose as much as he hated to perform poorly. IOW, he had a tremendous pride of performance that he doesn’t see in many kids on the team. I reminded him that not all the kids he played with were like that too, and he almost spat an answer at me. “That’s why no one on the team liked those B#$&!@*%s"!:hissyfit:


I told him that if he really believed that, the best thing he could do for the players and the team, was to try to figure out how to get fire in those kid’s bellies. He shook his head and told me that it would be simple if he could just get the parents to leave the kids alone. :(

I don't understand what he meant by this. Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate parents micromanaging what their kid is doing out there, especially game time, and especially @ HS level, but performing as a means of getting parental (or fan, or coaches, or teammate, etc.) seems like it'd be an additional means of firing a pitcher up.

[scorekeeper]

I don't understand what he meant by this. Don't get me wrong, I don't advocate parents micromanaging what their kid is doing out there, especially game time, and especially @ HS level, but performing as a means of getting parental (or fan, or coaches, or teammate, etc.) seems like it'd be an additional means of firing a pitcher up.

I suppose there are some kids who have a tremendous need for that parental approval, but I can assure you there are just as many, if not more, who absolutely hate much of the stuff they can’t help but hear, coming from the stands. People seem to think the kids hear nothing out there, but that couldn’t be further from the truth.

More than once I’ve heard some parent yell something like “DROP IT” when their kid hits a ball in the air, or “THROW IT AWAY” on a ground ball. It happens on the other side of the ball too. Just the other day one of out pitcher gave up a little bleeder that dropped, and there’s little doubt by the look he sent his dad’s way, that he was embarrassed by the f-bomb. In yesterday’s game, right after our SS had booted a very routine play, our P was definitely embarrassed by his dad speaking very loudly and saying that if his son had a decent defense behind him, he’d never lose a game.

Point is, it takes all kinds. I learned early on to keep my big mouth shut at games. My boy had absolutely no problem at all, very loudly letting me know that my observations and conclusions were not appreciated. When I first challenged him about it, he told me it took his mind off what he was trying to do, so for the last 13 years he played, I didn’t allow that to be one of his problems, although I seldom missed one of his games.

Once I stopped the “chatter”, it became very noticeable just how much of that was going on, and it didn’t take long to learn how to pick up on the body language of other players who happened to have a loud parent in the bleachers. I’ve been known to tape record the sounds of the bleachers, every once in a while, then play segments at EOY banquets. It can get pretty embarrassing, even when the expletives, the homophobic references, and the unintended racial slurs get deleted. But a lot of heads hang very low and there’s a lot of red cheeks when some not very flattering things are said about coaches or umpires.

[shake-n-bake]

OK, I get it now. I thought he was referring to a parent telling his son the pitcher to "keep the ball down" or something like that. Makes sense a kid would get rattled having to both worry about what his job on the mound is and dad being a tool in the stands too.

[Newyouthcoach]

coach scotty,

In my neck of the woods, coaches are already cutting kids from teams due to not "being good enough".

It is a shame that baseball has turned into this. I wish they could play like we used to. Just grabbing a glove and hopping on the bike and riding around until you found enough kids.