Is Tim Lincecum the new Pedro Martinez?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

For quite some time I've been thinking how much Tim Lincecum physically reminds me of a young Pedro Martinez (height and weight-wise). As good as Lincecum has been he hasn't pitched quite at the level of the 1999-2000 Pedro. However, Lincecum is just 25 years old and has put up a 187 ERA+ plus in '09 so far. One slight difference I see is that Lincecum may be more durable than Pedro. Pedro cracked the top-5 in innings pitched just once (4th-1997). Lincecum finished 3rd in '08 and leads the NL in '09. So I was wondering if Lincecum can take another step and perhaps have a historic peak? And will Lincecum likely lose effectiveness in his early 30s like Pedro did?

[Rich the Giants fan]

Timmy will be better than Pedro.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Timmy will be better than Pedro.

WOW! :faint: Better than 1999-2000 Pedro?

I hope you are right. :)

[Rich the Giants fan]

WOW! :faint: Better than 1999-2000 Pedro?

I hope you are right. :)

I believe, and have long done so, that he will someday earn the moniker of best pitcher in MLB (current, not necessarily all-time, but who knows?). I believe he will retain the "title" for a good while.

[dominik]

We will see. He is great, but there are 5 or 6 guys in the MLB who have about his quality(santana, Halladay, Carpenter, Greinke, Sabathia, Hernandez). Not better than him, but right there with him.

In pedros prime there was no one with him. He was absolutely dominant.

Lincecum won't reach his peak(pedros era+ was 291!! timmy has 187 this year. I think he has the potential to reach 200 but 200+ is very hard to do and pedro had 5 of those). But when he keeps his great level till his mid 30s he will overtake Pedro for career value.

Not the easiest task, but not impossible.

[Mr_Clutch]

I don't like predicting where players will end up, especially pitchers. There is simply too many variables. Timmy could blow his arm out in his next start, or he could be effective well into his thirties, like Nolan Ryan, and be the next 300 game winner. And while that isn't likely, I think he has a better chance than most.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

We will see. He is great, but there are 5 or 6 guys in the MLB who have about his quality(santana, Halladay, Carpenter, Greinke, Sabathia, Hernandez). Not better than him, but right there with him.

In pedros prime there was no one with him. He was absolutely dominant.

Lincecum won't reach his peak(pedros era+ was 291!! timmy has 187 this year. I think he has the potential to reach 200 but 200+ is very hard to do and pedro had 5 of those). But when he keeps his great level till his mid 30s he will overtake Pedro for career value.

Not the easiest task, but not impossible.

There was at least one guy with Pedro. Randy Johnson won four straight Cy Young Awards from 1999-2002. Granted, Johnson didn't match Pedro's gaudy ERA+'s but he pitched quite a bit more innings than Pedro.

[ol' aches and pains]

Actually, Pedro Martinez is the new Pedro Martinez. Since joining the Phillies, he's 5-0 in 7 starts, with a .287 ERA and a 150 ERA+. He still has some gas in the tank.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Actually, Pedro Martinez is the new Pedro Martinez. Since joining the Phillies, he's 5-0 in 7 starts, with a .287 ERA and a 150 ERA+ He still has some gas in the tank.

I just noticed that today. This season is actually Pedro's 18th major league season! Where does the time go? It seems just like yesterday we baseball fans were discussing whether Pedro will ever be as good as his older brother, Ramon. :)

[abolishthedh]

As he gets older, Lincecum will almost surely lose his flexibility as almost all of us do. He'll make up for much of that through a revamped excersize and flexibility regimen. By age 30, he had better have his trainer and regimen working well or he'll be a completely different pitcher in his 30's (if he is pitching at all.)

While Lincecum creates other-worldy torque through his motion, in order to have that torque he has to be as flexible as a rubber band. I don't believe anyone can be that way indefinitely, and I also believe there is nothing new under the sun to enable him to stay that way. Nothing that is legal, anyway.

Mark my words, in that I hope I am wrong. I always root for the pitchers, because somebody has to.:) It seems most likely that he'll be the new Frank Tanana.

In a recent Sports Illustrated article, I had the impression that Lincecum, and Matt Cain as well, might be prone to giving in to their competitive nature and then push themselves past their limits. If that is on the mark, then that is what Lincecum must watch out for. However, I have also had the impression that he is an intelligent guy. Maybe he will avoid all that.:crossfingers:

[CandlestickBum]

While Lincecum creates other-worldy torque through his motion, in order to have that torque he has to be as flexible as a rubber band. I don't believe anyone can be that way indefinitely, and I also believe there is nothing new under the sun to enable him to stay that way. Nothing that is legal, anyway.

Mark my words, in that I hope I am wrong. I always root for the pitchers, because somebody has to.:) It seems most likely that he'll be the new Frank Tanana.


I love watching Tim pitch, but I do half expect Cain to have a longer career. May not reach the same heights, but not that far below either. I can see Cain pitching into his late thirties, Lincecum might, but it would seem less likely.

Put it this way, if it was your money, which of these two would you offer a 8 (or even 6) year deal to?

[brett]

Actually, Pedro Martinez is the new Pedro Martinez. Since joining the Phillies, he's 5-0 in 7 starts, with a .287 ERA and a 150 ERA+. He still has some gas in the tank.

Yea, you only need two pitches to live in the NL.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I love watching Tim pitch, but I do half expect Cain to have a longer career. May not reach the same heights, but not that far below either. I can see Cain pitching into his late thirties, Lincecum might, but it would seem less likely.

Put it this way, if it was your money, which of these two would you offer a 8 (or even 6) year deal to?

Cain seems to have the big pitcher's body similar to Nolan Ryan and Tom Seaver.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

As he gets older, Lincecum will almost surely lose his flexibility as almost all of us do. He'll make up for much of that through a revamped excersize and flexibility regimen. By age 30, he had better have his trainer and regimen working well or he'll be a completely different pitcher in his 30's (if he is pitching at all.)

While Lincecum creates other-worldy torque through his motion, in order to have that torque he has to be as flexible as a rubber band. I don't believe anyone can be that way indefinitely, and I also believe there is nothing new under the sun to enable him to stay that way. Nothing that is legal, anyway.

Mark my words, in that I hope I am wrong. I always root for the pitchers, because somebody has to.:) It seems most likely that he'll be the new Frank Tanana.

In a recent Sports Illustrated article, I had the impression that Lincecum, and Matt Cain as well, might be prone to giving in to their competitive nature and then push themselves past their limits. If that is on the mark, then that is what Lincecum must watch out for. However, I have also had the impression that he is an intelligent guy. Maybe he will avoid all that.:crossfingers:

I hate to admit this but my gut tells me the same thing. Pedro was flying high until age 32 when he had a dramatic drop in performance.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Yea, you only need two pitches to live in the NL.

That's absurd.

[White Knight]

As he gets older, Lincecum will almost surely lose his flexibility as almost all of us do. He'll make up for much of that through a revamped excersize and flexibility regimen. By age 30, he had better have his trainer and regimen working well or he'll be a completely different pitcher in his 30's (if he is pitching at all.)

All he has to do is stretch on a regular basis and he won't lose any flexibility well into his 30's. 13 years ago, when I first got my black belt at 23, I could do a full split. I could also stand with my back against the wall and lift a leg up to touch the top of the wall. I haven't gone to karate since 2000/2001, so I have lost a lot of flexibility. However, I still am vastly more flexible than the average 36 year old, and can still kick someone 6'0 in the face. :) I'm highly confidant that with two or three months of training, I could be just as flexible as when I was 23.

Lincecum's body was very similar to mine at his age. At 23, I was 5'10 and in the 140's. He will remain in great shape for years to come.

[brett]

That's absurd.


You are right. I retract that, but it does seem like the majority of players who moves to the NL do better and most guys who goes to the AL struggle.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

You are right. I retract that, but it does seem like the majority of players who moves to the NL do better and most guys who goes to the AL struggle.

ummm

can you say pitchers batting vs DH

[brett]

ummm

can you say pitchers batting vs DH

I mean hitters too. Matt Holliday. Manny Ramirez.

and I also mean relatively.

Smoltz, Sabathia.

[538280]

Lincecum does have some similarities to Pedro, probably most notably their size, but I remember Pedro 1999-2000 and I don't know if there will ever be anyone exactly like him. He was somewhat fragile so you always suspected it wouldn't last forever but when he was on he was straight unhittable. Lincecum has been great, but he would have to tack on another dimension to get where Pedro was. Lincecum this year has struck out 29.4% of batters faced and walked 7.1%. That's great but Pedro's K/BB ratios 1999-2000 dwarf that, in 1999 Pedro struck out 37.5% and walked only 4.4%!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Lincecum does have some similarities to Pedro, probably most notably their size, but I remember Pedro 1999-2000 and I don't know if there will ever be anyone exactly like him. He was somewhat fragile so you always suspected it wouldn't last forever but when he was on he was straight unhittable. Lincecum has been great, but he would have to tack on another dimension to get where Pedro was. Lincecum this year has struck out 29.4% of batters faced and walked 7.1%. That's great but Pedro's K/BB ratios 1999-2000 dwarf that, in 1999 Pedro struck out 37.5% and walked only 4.4%!

Given that Lincecum is just 25 years old that is a possibility. Also, I consider Lincecum to be more of a workhorse pitcher than Pedro was.

[Rich the Giants fan]

I mean hitters too. Matt Holliday. Manny Ramirez.

and I also mean relatively.

Smoltz, Sabathia.

Ryan Garko begs to differ.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Lincecum does have some similarities to Pedro, probably most notably their size, but I remember Pedro 1999-2000 and I don't know if there will ever be anyone exactly like him. He was somewhat fragile so you always suspected it wouldn't last forever but when he was on he was straight unhittable. Lincecum has been great, but he would have to tack on another dimension to get where Pedro was. Lincecum this year has struck out 29.4% of batters faced and walked 7.1%. That's great but Pedro's K/BB ratios 1999-2000 dwarf that, in 1999 Pedro struck out 37.5% and walked only 4.4%!

Timmy's only getting better.

[dominik]

Timmy's only getting better.

I also think he can get even better. But I doubt he will reach Pedros heights.
Still he has a great chance to become a HOFer when he stazs healthz till his mid 30s.

[nerfan]

Sandy Koufax and Dwight Gooden only needed two pitches to be in the NL. And Tex has been better in the AL as well.

[Sirmudgeon]

This is a really apt comparison, Pedro in his prime and Lincecum right now, both threw whiffleballs. Lincecum pitches more innings, hope he has the duration. Guys like Randy Johnson and Nolan Ryan and Bob Gibson threw HARD, Sandy Koufax and Juan Marichal as well, Roger Clemens can be added to that list, maybe also Sudden Sam McDowell. Tom Seaver and Jim Palmer and Steve Carlton, those guys could pitch. At current, I'm sort of a Johann Santana fan for throwing hard with control, and Zach Greinke is pretty darn good. So is Justin Verlander. No one beats Tim Lincecum on absolute twist, though. I've gotta admit, it's great to see Pedro come back the way he has, he's been amazing. It's too bad he did not stay healthy, I've the same concerns about Lincecum.

Just for grins, check this G'ints rotation: Lincecum, Matt Cain, Bad Brad Penny, Randy Johnson, Jonathan Sanchez. One stud hitter, they could win it all. Sandoval and Molina and Uribe are good, they are not 4-hole sluggers. Oh well, one can't have everything.

[dgarza]

Wow, Tim Lincecum is actually more like the new Herb Score!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Pedro and Lincecum faced each other just two weeks ago on September 3rd.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290903122

Pedro beat Lincecum 2-1. Pedro was very impressed with Lincecum and vice versa.



"He reminds me a little bit of me, but he's twice as good as me at this time of my career," Martinez said of Lincecum. "It took me seven years to win a Cy Young."

Lincecum was equally impressed.

"It's ridiculous how nasty his stuff still is," he said. "When you watch him, it's obvious he knows what he's doing out there."

[dominik]

Sandy Koufax and Dwight Gooden only needed two pitches to be in the NL. And Tex has been better in the AL as well.

There is a boston pitcher in the AL who only needs one pitch.:)

[CandlestickBum]

There is a boston pitcher in the AL who only needs one pitch.:)


Now, now, he needs his 80mph fastball as well.


Who's the boston pitcher that plays in the NL anyway? :)

[Milt on Tilt]

There is a boston pitcher in the AL who only needs one pitch.:)

There's a pitcher in NY who's made a HOF career with one.

[yamsi12]

Pedro and Lincecum faced each other just two weeks ago on September 3rd.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=290903122

Pedro beat Lincecum 2-1. Pedro was very impressed with Lincecum and vice versa.

I was at the Angels game vs SF in june where timmy pitched and torii hunter came in to pinch hit in the 9th. Torii said pretty much the same thing, that he sat on the bench during the game amazed with lincecum and was itching to face him. He said he didnt want to fall behind in the count because if he did he knew he was done.....and sure enough he swung at the first pitch and drove in the winning run.

on a side note Im gonna be at the Dodgers vs Giants game sunday to see timmy pitch. Simply put hes amazing to watch. Best pitcher in MLB IMO......

[Milt on Tilt]

I was at the Angels game vs SF in june where timmy pitched and torii hunter came in to pinch hit in the 9th. Torii said pretty much the same thing, that he sat on the bench during the game amazed with lincecum and was itching to face him. He said he didnt want to fall behind in the count because if he did he knew he was done.....and sure enough he swung at the first pitch and drove in the winning run.

on a side note Im gonna be at the Dodgers vs Giants game sunday to see timmy pitch. Simply put hes amazing to watch. Best pitcher im MLB IMO......

On a side note. I despise Torii Hunter.

[yamsi12]

On a side note. I despise Torii Hunter.

may I ask why?

[9RoyHobbsRF]

I was at the Angels game vs SF in june where timmy pitched and torii hunter came in to pinch hit in the 9th. Torii said pretty much the same thing, that he sat on the bench during the game amazed with lincecum and was itching to face him. He said he didnt want to fall behind in the count because if he did he knew he was done.....and sure enough he swung at the first pitch and drove in the winning run.
on a side note Im gonna be at the Dodgers vs Giants game sunday to see timmy pitch. Simply put hes amazing to watch. Best pitcher in MLB IMO......

no, I was there as well

he pinch hit to lead off the 8th inning and singled

the Angels tied the game on a weak infield ground ball single, then took the lead after a passed ball and another weak grounder, this time a fielders choice

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/SFN/SFN200906170.shtml

[Milt on Tilt]

may I ask why?

Probably since he's such a blowhard. In that he'll say anything the press wants him to because he likes to hear himself talk. And there's the time he called out Joe Mauer and Justin Morneau because they didn't play hurt, like him, because he was a man. And then there's the time where he threw a punch at Justin Morneau.

His comments about the Prince celebration were a good example. Paraphrasing, 'I wasn't there and don't know much about it, but if I was I would have wanted to start a fight.'