and the reason you closed the thread? [Archive]

Cannonball

09-15-2009, 10:18 AM

I thought my "admonishment" was geared as much toward Mark than anyone else. I thought it was fair. I thought that Mud was able to leave up a link to Hudgen's site. I thought that Mud's presentation of Hudgen's credentials was left up and fair. I thought that it was understood that if copyrighted material for Hudgens or Englishbey were posted then "disciplinary actions" would be the result. Wasn't that "fair?" In other regards there was little value being presented. Perhaps you see some value in the my guru's better than yours. I don't.

Wogdoggy, I understand that you detest "censorship." I also understand that you suggest bias in this action. However, I view my actions as "fair."

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 10:30 AM

if mark h can save the world from every bad guru there is can "we" save the world from just one?

I dont get it?

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 10:44 AM

its an englishbey board..lets face it..has been since jake phoned him years ago..am I wrong?

this place USED to be great..now if your even try to dispute the guru of choice your thread will be closed ..

ban mark h ,and let people TALK about THEIR PERSONAL experiences that they had with certain instructors..thats what its all about..

Its pretty obvious who gets preferential treatment ...OBVIOUS to everybody guys...:shrug:

Darlingtonpride

09-15-2009, 10:53 AM

Kinda new here still Wog. What are the differences in the basic philosophies of the gurus? Thanks.

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 10:54 AM

Kinda new here still Wog. What are the differences in the basic philosophies of the gurus? Thanks.

ask mark h...he knows :banghead:

Darlingtonpride

09-15-2009, 11:18 AM

Im sorry, I did not mean to push any buttons. You have always been helpful to me. I have never asked Mark H anything. Again sorry.

mudvnine

09-15-2009, 11:19 AM

In defense of Jake, if that even seems possible coming from me, but he did PM me that if I didn't like his "moderation" then I should PM "Macker (http://www.baseball-fever.com/member.php?u=251)" (the Administrator of the site) directly, with my displeasure and complaints regarding his work.

Maybe PMs directly to "Macker (http://www.baseball-fever.com/member.php?u=251)" would be better served, rather then one in a new thread destined for deletion.

I thought that Mud was able to leave up a link to Hudgen's site. I thought that Mud's presentation of Hudgen's credentials was left up and fair.
CB, you are correct about my "link" to an outside website being allowed to stay and I apologize for making that link against BBF policy; I got caught up in the heat of the moment and linked to something I shouldn't have . . . I should have known better.

Sorry about that,
Mud

No need for a nasty PM. I'm done posting on this board.

HYP, really disappointed to hear another high school baseball coach with vast experience following the exodus of many other fine baseball minds leaving the ranks of BBF.

You have been a great source of information and I have learned a lot from your experiences and form of instruction, but I know we'll still be able to share our HS coaching experineces at several other places and talk hitting at a couple other sites. :highfive:

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 11:21 AM

Im sorry, I did not mean to push any buttons. You have always been helpful to me. I have never asked Mark H anything. Again sorry.

in my opinion..ONE of the differences can be seen in the clip from justin stone

ESPECIALLY between the 2 minute and 3 minute mark..thats all i say cause i dont wanna be banned..BUT YOU CAN PM me..for my experiences..also ask hyp for his..or slapper or ...... or ......

virg

09-15-2009, 11:31 AM

ask mark h...he knows :banghead:

Hopped-up slow pitch swings are only slowpitch swings.
Have been around since that “pioneer” invented a crisis to seem to solve (for a price). And then, as other 'pioneers' chimed in. They all talk hardball-swing, having studied and analyzed slowpitch swings, maybe how to hop one up. But it's always reeked of slowpitch to me. This might work for a few, especially the larger, stronger, and quicker variety. Reported short term results may be astounding, but the short term is what? A week or two of BP or slow pitch? In competition, the first weak pitchers? In terms of pitchers, the only real test is the best around and that won't happen very fast; weak ones hardly count. Tougher pitching is the only test.

It is true I think, that slowpitch is where everyone starts. So a better slow pitch start than you had is a big plus, and you may get it from these “pioneers”. Maybe even better from the best of their followers. But it's still a slowpitch cut. Unless (maybe) it tattoos the best of pitchers at your level and the next one up.

Waste your time if you want, on comparative studies of lineal descendants of the slowpitch science pioneers. Too much of it is red herrings, false trails, and foggy jargon. And a slowpitch swing is still just a slowpitch swing, maybe a little better. And the sons of those "pioneers" will always scatter the tracks and blot the trail with their bickering.

jofus

09-15-2009, 11:33 AM

Man, you guys amaze me, you just have to keep pushing until you get something new to complain about. I really think that the more you hang out with someone with questionable behavior, the more that questionable behavior becomes acceptable in your mind (meant generally speaking, both on internet boards, in real life, etc.).

Ironically, I'm pretty sure at least one of the people claiming there is "bias" here has also stated that there is no "bias" over on Brett's board :D

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 11:44 AM

Cannonball

09-15-2009, 11:49 AM

go over there..and THEN tell me you cant speak your feelings..apples and oranges

to say his board is biased is dead a$$ wrong..he lets EVERYBODY make an ass of themselves equally :rofl:

I sense that since I've agreed to help moderate this board, these claims of "bias" have increased. I belive that I have attempted to do just the opposite. I intend to pm both Jake and Macker and let them know that I question whether my position as "moderator" has helped this board in lieu of the constantly bickering about moderators and what camps we belong in. To be honest, I've never thought of any of that when carrying out my duties.

Take care,

Darrell

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 11:53 AM

I sense that since I've agreed to help moderate this board, these claims of "bias" have increased. I belive that I have attempted to do just the opposite. I intend to pm both Jake and Macker and let them know that I question whether my position as "moderator" has helped this board in lieu of the constantly bickering about moderators and what camps we belong in. To be honest, I've never thought of any of that when carrying out my duties.

Take care,

Darrell

then let the posts STAY...NO REASON to close that last thread,,NONE

maybe you and jake think you are UNBIASED but 1000 flies cant be wrong...

nobodys here anymore and EVERYONE is very tetative to say ANYTHING bad about the guru of choice here

if mark h can save the world from hudgens why cant we save the world?

:shrug::shrug::shrug:

Mark H

09-15-2009, 12:13 PM

in my opinion..ONE of the differences can be seen in the clip from justin stone

ESPECIALLY between the 2 minute and 3 minute mark..thats all i say cause i dont wanna be banned..BUT YOU CAN PM me..for my experiences..also ask hyp for his..or slapper or ...... or ......

I'm pretty sure we can discuss that video. No problem. Overall I liked it. Way better than most of the hitting stuff on youtube. As you watch it, make sure you match up his verbiage with his demonstrations to make sure you understand his meaning. Just because he uses a buzz word doesn't mean he assigns the same meaning to a word or phrase that you do. Baseball is thick with terms that mean almost anything depending on who is talking or listening. That's why I like guys who try to use the accepted bio mechanical terms to reduce ambiguity. Watched Barfield instruct a kid for an hour on a video they made. His terms were completely his own but he taught pretty much what I would teach. If I had listened to his verbiage without matching it up to his demonstrations it would have amounted to the same rorschach test that most verbal or written hitting instruction amounts to.

Virg, you sure you posted in the right thread?

mudvnine

09-15-2009, 12:15 PM

Ironically, I'm pretty sure at least one of the people claiming there is "bias" here has also stated that there is no "bias" over on Brett's board :D

Not sure who that was directed at, but irregardless, since I post at Brett's site, I think I have some knowledge about it and its integrity.

Brett DOES NOT moderate content, merely offensive language that serves no purpose in the post. Since I have been there from the beginning, I do not know of a single thread that has been deleted or locked, a single post that has been edited for content, or of a single user that has been banned for his/her posting characteristics. In fact some posters there, are the exact same ones banned here for expressing their exact same opinions and personalities there as they have at BBF.

Just setting the record straight . . .

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 12:21 PM

I'm pretty sure we can discuss that video. No problem. Overall I liked it. Way better than most of the hitting stuff on youtube. As you watch it, make sure you match up his verbiage with his demonstrations to make sure you understand his meaning. Just because he uses a buzz word doesn't mean he assigns the same meaning to a word or phrase that you do. Baseball is thick with terms that mean almost anything depending on who is talking or listening. That's why I like guys who try to use the accepted bio mechanical terms to reduce ambiguity. Watched Barfield instruct a kid for an hour on a video they made. His terms were completely his own but he taught pretty much what I would teach. If I had listened to his verbiage without matching it up to his demonstrations it would have amounted to the same rorschach test that most verbal or written hitting instruction amounts to.

Virg, you sure you posted in the right thread?

I'd bet virg knows EXACTLY what thread he posted in and exactly who he is reffering to...

wogdoggy

09-15-2009, 12:23 PM

Not sure who that was directed at, but irregardless, since I post at Brett's site, I think I have some knowledge about it and its integrity.

Brett DOES NOT moderate content, merely offensive language that serves no purpose in the post. Since I have been there from the beginning, I do not know of a single thread that has been deleted or locked, a single post that has been edited for content, or of a single user that has been banned for his/her posting characteristics. In fact some posters there, are the exact same ones banned here for expressing their exact same opinions and personalities there as they have at BBF.

Just setting the record straight . . .

EXACTLY..you swear you get deleted..EVERYTHING else STAYS... no whining

Jake Patterson

09-15-2009, 12:25 PM

then let the posts STAY...NO REASON to close that last thread,,NONE

maybe you and jake think you are UNBIASED but 1000 flies cant be wrong...

nobodys here anymore and EVERYONE is very tetative to say ANYTHING bad about the guru of choice here

if mark h can save the world from hudgens why cant we save the world?

:shrug::shrug::shrug:
Wog,
SEVERAL ITEMS:
1. The flies are just what they are - flies.

2. I could care less about the camps. I no longer coach or teach baseball and have NO vested interest in ANYONE's camp. Those gurus who have been banned have been banned because they violated policy with their constant contentious posts. Nothing more nothing less. If you do not believe this so be it, let's move on.

3. I have stated many times that I have never met Steve and I do not participate on his site. I found some of his stuff great when teaching kids. I also found items from Paul, Ted, Jack and others useful. I am uncertain how much clearer I can be.

4. You keep throwing up who stays and who leaves. Unless you have access to the posting numbers, which I believe you do not, the number of participants we have, or do not have is purely speculation on your part. BBF remains strong and our numbers consistent. Those who believe in the contentiousness as the way to communicate are the ONLY ones who have been banned AND that has always been after numerous warnings. Believe what you want.

5. I am uncertain why some posters, including you, are unable to get past this. I monitor the board frequency and who comes and goes and can clearly see that many anti-"X" camp forumers are here to disrupt or to watch the theatrics and the juvenile teenage antics of a few. My God don't you guys have better things to do? Grow up and talk about baseball. This is a private site with a set of rules. Deal with it or don't.

To all:
Over the past month I have offered 5 times to speak with those who cry foul. None - repeat NONE - have taken me up on this. Some are here to promote their own agenda by crying foul and stating I have an agenda. To me it's juvenile garbage that brings nothing to the game.

azmatsfan

09-15-2009, 12:26 PM

Jake Patterson

09-15-2009, 12:37 PM

As someone who doesn't follow any one particular hitting guru, but tries to learn as much as I can from a variety of sources, I don't mind the threads about which train of thought is best. Sure sometimes they can get a little negative or personal, and it's pretty clear everyone's agenda. But if you can dig through the attacks there's some valuable information in those threads.
Would it not be better without all the attacks? The contentious method some use has destroyed site after site and yet they follow new sites like teenage girls tracking a good-looking boy on facebook. Geeze let's talk baseball!!

FiveFrameSwing

09-15-2009, 12:46 PM

Wog,
SEVERAL ITEMS:
1. The flies are just what they are - flies.

2. I could care less about the camps. I no longer coach or teach baseball and have NO vested interest in ANYONE's camp. Those gurus who have been banned have been banned because they violated policy with their constant contentious posts. Nothing more nothing less. If you do not believe this so be it, let's move on.

3. I have stated many times that I have never met Steve and I do not participate on his site. I found some of his stuff great when teaching kids. I also found items from Paul, Ted, Jack and others useful. I am uncertain how much clearer I can be.

4. You keep throwing up who stays and who leaves. Unless you have access to the posting numbers, which I believe you do not, the number of participants we have, or do not have is purely speculation on your part. BBF remains strong and our numbers consistent. Those who believe in the contentiousness as the way to communicate are the ONLY ones who have been banned AND that has always been after numerous warnings. Believe what you want.

5. I am uncertain why some posters, including you, are unable to get past this. I monitor the board frequency and who comes and goes and can clearly see that many anti-"X" camp forumers are here to disrupt or to watch the theatrics and the juvenile teenage antics of a few. My God don't you guys have better things to do? Grow up and talk about baseball. This is a private site with a set of rules. Deal with it or don't.

To all:
Over the past month I have offered 5 times to speak with those who cry foul. None - repeat NONE - have taken me up on this. Some are here to promote their own agenda by crying foul and stating I have an agenda. To me it's juvenile garbage that brings nothing to the game.

It's pretty simple Jake ... you are in a position where "actions" speak much louder than "words".

When folks ignore your words, and focus on your actions, then they conclude that you hold particular biases.

jofus

09-15-2009, 12:57 PM

Wog, Mud, whoever else....

You may not have noticed, since I rarely post a ton on any board, but I do post on Brett's board, and I respect him and the job he is doing. If it seemed I implied that he has deleted or locked posts innapropriately, then I apologize, that's not what I meant.

HOWEVER....I maintain that he and his board, the same as any board anywhere with actual human beings doing the moderating, especially if they themselves are interested in the board material, are biased. Seriously, any board is going to be, it's a fact of life. If you don't like it, you have two options...put up with it, or don't. It's that simple.

I agree that different boards may handle situations differently...but, you have to remember, that on his board, as far as I know, Brett is "in charge", and doesn't answer to a higher authority, whereas Jake and Cannonball do have higher-ups.

Oh, and take a few hours and re-read the "Some camps aren't afraid....." thread (edit>>on the "other board", not this board), read every post, and tell me that the moderators are "unbiased". I'm not criticizing B and D, it's human nature to show a little bias now and then, just like Jake and Darrell do....I'm just saying that some people like to complain about it when they don't agree, but defend it when the bias agrees with their personal opinion.

Sorry about the semi-long rant. I've modded before and sympathize with Jake and Darrell, B and D, and any other mods out there....FWIW, on most boards I've been involved with, making a post like this one specifically to criticize or publically question a mod's actions automatically results in at least a temporary banning...so, remember, it could be worse ;)

bbb3601

09-15-2009, 12:58 PM

I must say that even after years of reading, and following threads on this site I am still scared at times to post. I have learned never to post a clip of your kid etc. It seems if you don't "speak" the language you get slammed, and rolled over. Not all of us are guru's, and we need the direction provided by EVERYONE not just a select few. I remember back when everyone seemed happy and we had a vast selection of different threads. I love the site and all of the great people. I have learned more about the sport by reading, and keeping my mouth closed as often as possible.

BallCoach06

09-15-2009, 01:02 PM

Would it not be better without all the attacks? The contentious method some use has destroyed site after site and yet they follow new sites like teenage girls tracking a good-looking boy on facebook. Geeze let's talk baseball!!

Why do we need to attack anyone? This site should be about knowledge and what is working to improve kids. If something works to teach a kid one way, but someone else disagrees with it, so what, it works for that coach or player. I have grown very tired of what appears to be "ego driven wanna be gurus" that think they know everything about hitting, etc. and attack anyone who disagrees with them. They spend so much time on here attacking and arguing that I wonder if they even have time to watch baseball, let alone coach it.

Someone will probably tell me if I don't like it, don't come on the board. That is probably true to some extent, which is why I usually stay out of some threads (hitting especially) and try to only post in areas where I think I can help others without all the hassles of proving who is right and wrong.

I have coached for several years and would like to think I am pretty good at what I do. I have had my successes, but who am I to try to say someone else's approaches and/or philosophies are wrong.

If someone tells me they have their hitters hit with their eyes closed and they hit .400 as a team, I am not going to tell them that is wrong. If I don't agree, that is my choice, but I don't need to tell someone they are wrong because it is not the way I choose to do things. If it works for them that is what matters. I will just keep my opinions to myself or I may offer suggestions as to what has worked for me if they want it, but I am not going to try to change someone who is having success based solely on my beliefs.

That is my rant and how I feel on this matter. Others obviously are different and they will probably argue with me on that. :shrug:

bbb3601

09-15-2009, 01:11 PM

Why do we need to attack anyone? This site should be about knowledge and what is working to improve kids. If something works to teach a kid one way, but someone else disagrees with it, so what, it works for that coach or player. I have grown very tired of what appears to be "ego driven wanna be gurus" that think they know everything about hitting, etc. and attack anyone who disagrees with them. They spend so much time on here attacking and arguing that I wonder if they even have time to watch baseball, let alone coach it.

Someone will probably tell me if I don't like it, don't come on the board. That is probably true to some extent, which is why I usually stay out of some threads (hitting especially) and try to only post in areas where I think I can help others without all the hassles of proving who is right and wrong.

I have coached for several years and would like to think I am pretty good at what I do. I have had my successes, but who am I to try to say someone else's approaches and/or philosophies are wrong.

If someone tells me they have their hitters hit with their eyes closed and they hit .400 as a team, I am not going to tell them that is wrong. If I don't agree, that is my choice, but I don't need to tell someone they are wrong because it is not the way I choose to do things. If it works for them that is what matters. I will just keep my opinions to myself or I may offer suggestions as to what has worked for me if they want it, but I am not going to try to change someone who is having success based solely on my beliefs.

That is my rant and how I feel on this matter. Others obviously are different and they will probably argue with me on that. :shrug:

What a great post!!!:)

virg

09-15-2009, 01:24 PM

I'm pretty sure we can discuss ..............................................
Virg, you sure you posted in the right thread?

I wrote for the former thread as it was deleted but this is as good a cranky irrelevant thread as any. Now I'll be quiet for awhile if allowed to.

azmatsfan

09-15-2009, 02:46 PM

Would it not be better without all the attacks? The contentious method some use has destroyed site after site and yet they follow new sites like teenage girls tracking a good-looking boy on facebook. Geeze let's talk baseball!!

Absolutely. I'd rather not have the Jr. High p_ssing matches nor the unnecessarily negative posts. It would be nice if people could articulate their ideas without attacking someone else. Unfortunately I don't know if that's possible for some.

Jake Patterson

09-15-2009, 02:50 PM

Absolutely. I'd rather not have the Jr. High p_ssing matches nor the unnecessarily negative posts. It would be nice if people could articulate their ideas without attacking someone else. Unfortunately I don't know if that's possible for some.Unfortunately I agree - and that's when the mod has to step in.

Mark H

09-15-2009, 03:06 PM

I wrote for the former thread as it was deleted but this is as good a cranky irrelevant thread as any. Now I'll be quiet for awhile if allowed to.

OK, thanks. I just couldn't figure out what it related to.

Mark H

09-15-2009, 03:15 PM

FiveFrameSwing

09-15-2009, 03:22 PM

I give credit where I think it's due. In a recent thread MightyLakers kid looked better after three days with Richard. If I'll say that, I'll give the devil credit when it's due.

This is healthy.

Let's return to something constructive. How about having ML discuss the enhancements made to his kid's swing during the recent clinic.

Mark H

09-15-2009, 03:27 PM

Sorry I have to think it's a little bit funny when I compare Richard to the devil and you say it's healthy. ;) Sorry, back to positive. :)

mudvnine

09-15-2009, 05:57 PM

Mud,

OK, I'm glad to understand the nature of your loyalty to, and history with, Hudgens. I appreciate your being loyal to a friend. I'll try to not mention Hudgens unless someone else brings it up first. As to Englishbey, yeah, I think his stuff holds up better than anyone's I've studied. Nyman is very good. Yeager is probably quite good based on the smart things I hear his people saying on here. Right View is pretty good. A lot better than much before it. I don't like most of Epstein for reasons discussed at length though his mental side of hitting is great. Mankin has a lot right as far as he goes except that top hand torque stuff. The Justin Stone video is pretty good as far as it goes if you closely watch the demonstrations. I give credit where I think it's due. In a recent thread MightyLakers kid looked better after three days with Richard. If I'll say that, I'll give the devil credit when it's due.

Sounds fine. Glad we understand each other and can move on . . . as others have pointed out, nothing productive for anyone by the we way the two of us conducted ourselves the last couple days. My apologizes to the board for my half of the poop-pile. :blush:

I'm more than willing to forgive and forget, as long as you're willing and able to hold up your end of the deal. :nod:

Peace,
Mud

BTW, some remarkable transformations were made by ALL of the kids this weekend, but MiniLakers was definitely one of the best and quickest learners . . . the young man's swing is REALLY impressive live, video somehow, just doesn't do him justice. :thumbsup::thumbsup: