Expansion

[Milt on Tilt]

In contrast to the contraction thread, here is an expansion thread. Which of the areas should get a MLB Franchise? Listed by estimated 2008 Combined Statistical Area Populations.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

how about 1) Honolulu 2) Maui

what a road trip that would be

[Bulldog19]

Nope I see no reason to add on. I think the only way I would add a new team or new location would be to move an existing team to Honolulu or Maui. Maybe the Nationals since DC doesn't appear to want them? Or maybe the Royals?

[STLCards2]

I hope they do not expand - but if they did (or move), I would vote for Indy. and Portland.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I vote for Portland, OR. Or maybe just merge with the NBP. :D

[EdTarbusz]

I'd rather see contraction than more expansion.

[spark240]

We could easily have several more teams, if the broadcast rights and revenue system were revamped. Otherwise, some current ones may never thrive.

[NYMets523]

I'd rather see contraction than more expansion.

Same here. Oakland would probably be a casualty of contraction. Not sure who the second would be.

[EdTarbusz]

Same here. Oakland would probably be a casualty of contraction. Not sure who the second would be.

Probably one of the Florida teams.

[John Shoemaker]

How about expanding and adding Mexico City.

[TonyStarks]

Probably one of the Florida teams.

Why do people say Florida should lose one of there teams?
The Marlins are one of the best run organizations and are masters at pumping out talent. Not to mention they've won 2 World Series recently.

Then you have the Rays are are also a good ball club and actually competes well in their division. Throw in that they're defending AL Champs.

Why not get rid of one of the franchises that can do nothing right, or seems like they don't put any effort into their club. Say the Pirates or the Royals or even the Nationals. As much as I'd love the Pirates to return to greatness if you asked me to eliminate a team right now...I might say Pirates or Royals.

[NYMets523]

Probably one of the Florida teams.

Marlins are getting a new stadium. I think Tampa Bay might and their playoff run kinda saved them like it did the Mariners back in the 90's. I think the most likely candidate to be contracted is Toronto.

[The Splendid Splinter]

I hope they do not expand - but if they did (or move), I would vote for Indy. and Portland.

I don't know about Indy really... The problem with Indy is it's too close to a lot of teams (Reds (2 hrs)/White Sox & Cubs (3 hrs)/Cardinals(4hrs)/Tigers (4-5 hrs)/Cleveland (5 hrs)) so you got a whole state that has fans between 6 teams... also I don't know how many fans it would attract every year and where would you put the stadium?

As much I would like to see a pro team in Indy (cuz I would be able to see a lot of games there), the town is more suited for the Indianapolis Indians (Pirate's AAA team) at the moment as I go to several games there every year. I don't see a pro team in Indy in the near future yet, but if they decided to add a couple teams in like say... 10-15 years then maybe I could see Indy being a possible solution.

As of right now, I would go with Portland, Ore.

[metfan13]

Where's None?

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Where's None?

agree 100% ....

[jnakamura]

1) Portland, Oregon (Hoping, hoping hoping...)

2) Inland Empire, California (4.1 million population with no MLB?!?!)

-

[Milt on Tilt]

Obviously I don't suppot expansion, but I don't support contraction either. And in my mind there is no doubt that expansion is a much better idea than contraction. You want to take away the Pirates? A team that has existed 1882, has a history that rivals anyone not named the Yankees and has one of the greatest parks in baseball at less than 10 years old? That's a ridiculous idea. You want to contract the Marlins who just got a new stadium approved and have been competitive every other year?

Contraction will not happen.

[Altitude]

1. Portland (already support a pro team)
2. Salt Lake City (already support a pro team)
3. Carolina (already supports pro teams)
4. Nashville (already supports a pro team)

Expand west expansion first then finish out with the remaining cities in the east.

[Bobby_Ayala]

No MLB expansion.

[metfan13]

1. Portland (already support a pro team)
2. Salt Lake City (already support a pro team)
3. Carolina (already supports pro teams)
4. Nashville (already supports a pro team)

Expand west expansion first then finish out with the remaining cities in the east.

Carolina? No. The fact that there are already pro teams means that there's far less disposable income to support baseball. Not enough population base away from Charlotte, and not enough in Charlotte with NFL, NBA and NASCAR already here.

[ol' aches and pains]

Why do people say Florida should lose one of there teams?
The Marlins are one of the best run organizations and are masters at pumping out talent. Not to mention they've won 2 World Series recently.

Every time I see highlights from Landshark Staduim or whatever it is, it looks like there are more people on the field than in the stands.

[jnakamura]

----------------------

[Captain Cold Nose]

Oh please, you need to root for 4 teams now? The Dodgers, Angels and the Yankees aren't enough? :rolleyes:

No MLB expansion.

My advice for both of you is to put each other on ignore and move along with your Baseball Fever lives. Stop the obsession, enjoy the site.

MLB in Chillicothe, Ohio? That'd be a hoot.

OSU fought tooth and nail against any major league sport coming to Columbus. The NHL's Blue Jackets faced a fierce fight but finally made it. They're still not quite a contender but have a good fan base. But for a serious competitor for the Buckeyes as the end-all, be all? It may not be worth it.

[TommieAgeefan]

OSU fought tooth and nail against any major league sport coming to Columbus. The NHL's Blue Jackets faced a fierce fight but finally made it. They're still not quite a contender but have a good fan base. But for a serious competitor for the Buckeyes as the end-all, be all? It may not be worth it.

I can see Ohio State's point w/ the NFL and NBA, as OSU football and men's basketball teams are ranked year in and year out, with the football team more often than not a threat to make the BCS Championship game. But MLB? Even if the baseball Buckeyes are tearing up the Big 10 year after year, college baseball just isn't that big compared to the other sports. I think an MLB team in Columbus and the Buckeyes could co-exist just fine. Dunno if MLB would want three teams in Ohio, though.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I can see Ohio State's point w/ the NFL and NBA, as OSU football and men's basketball teams are ranked year in and year out, with the football team more often than not a threat to make the BCS Championship game. But MLB? Even if the baseball Buckeyes are tearing up the Big 10 year after year, college baseball just isn't that big compared to the other sports. I think an MLB team in Columbus and the Buckeyes could co-exist just fine. Dunno if MLB would want three teams in Ohio, though.

I think so, too. But there are many who want it all OSU, all the time in the Columbus area. Everything else is secondary and a major league team would really cut into that. The AAA Clippers do fairly well and have done so for a very long time, but they are very much secondary in the Columbus market.

Ohio does not need three MLB teams, though.

[sturg1dj]

60 years ago Flint, MI would have been perfect.


haha, how would that be working out?

[Milt on Tilt]

60 years ago Flint, MI would have been perfect.


haha, how would that be working out?

Maybe if Flint, MI had a major league team, it would have evolved differently? I don't know, just thinking thoughts. Ignore me actually.

[sturg1dj]

haha, perhaps....but I doubt it.

[minorfan]

Expansion/relocation cities:

Las Vegas
Charlotte
Buffalo

I'd consider moving the Las Vegas 51's parent club to LV
Charlotte is another "growth area" like Vegas
Buffalo would be my romantic choice (like I said in another thread, the only "Continental League" city that never got a team in the 50 years since that fell through)

Alternatives:

AAA cities with NFL teams-
New Orleans
Indianapolis
Nashville (or Memphis, who has a newer AAA stadium)

"foreign" markets-
Mexico City
San Juan, Puerto Rico (remember when the Expos played there?)
Vancouver, BC (used to support AAA teams okay)

and, of course:
Montreal (naturally, we should keep replacing franchises that moved - just like Seattle, DC (x2), Milwaukee (x2 - if you go back far enough), Kansas City, Baltimore (again, ancient history - what would we do without the Yankees?), etc.

I guess we should also consider AL teams for St. Louis, an NL team for Boston and a second NL team in NYC - preferably in Brooklyn...

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Expansion would be a very bad idea at this point in time. I personally believe the economy is going to go off a cliff in the next couple years and discretionary income amongst the masses will reach new levels of constraint. Many large cities are contracting. MLB should wait until the dust settles before expanding in this period of history. Revenues might have peaked in 2007, and will probably plateau or steadily decline for an indefinite period of time.

In fact, I predict the United States will strategically devalue the dollar in the next 5 years, but i'll save that talk for the economic blogs I follow :hp

[metfan13]

Believe me guys. Charlotte does not belong at or near the top of the list. Unless you're trying to prove that another expansion would be unwise.

[spark240]

Carolina? No. The fact that there are already pro teams means that there's far less disposable income to support baseball. Not enough population base away from Charlotte, and not enough in Charlotte with NFL, NBA and NASCAR already here.

The big revenue stream is TV, not gate. If MLB had an equitable TV revenue arrangement, many cities Charlotte's size could conceivably host teams, just as they host successful outfits in various other games. (And tickets could be cheaper too. Ain't I dreaming?)

I certainly think expansion to additional cities is far, far better than adding teams to towns already represented in the league.

[Milt on Tilt]

I certainly think expansion to additional cities is far, far better than adding teams to towns already represented in the league.

I mostly agree with this as well. But I have no doubt that a third team in NY could be successful, especially with the fall of the Mets. And as a Big Premier League fan I see that it works over there. Four of 20 teams are in London, including 2 of the big 4.

And I only listed the Boston area because they are a bigger population than that of the Oakland-SF area which has two teams.

[Milt on Tilt]

So I actually looked into AAA attendance figures. My conclusion is that neither Portland or Charolette would support a MLB franchise. Best choice? Maybe Sacremento.

http://www.triple-abaseball.com/clubattendance.pdf

[Honus Wagner Rules]

So I actually looked into AAA attendance figures. My conclusion is that neither Portland or Charolette would support a MLB franchise. Best choice? Maybe Sacremento.

http://www.triple-abaseball.com/clubattendance.pdf

The state of California already has five major league teams. They really don't need another. And I live in California. Besides Sacramento has lots of Giants and A's fans.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

I mostly agree with this as well. But I have no doubt that a third team in NY could be successful, especially with the fall of the Mets. And as a Big Premier League fan I see that it works over there. Four of 20 teams are in London, including 2 of the big 4.

And I only listed the Boston area because they are a bigger population than that of the Oakland-SF area which has two teams.

the sf bay area is 7 million

san jose is the 10th largest city in the country, san francisco just behind it, oakland not too far down the road, san jose is 30 miles from oakland and 45 miles from SF

what is boston?

[Milt on Tilt]

the sf bay area is 7 million

what is boston?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_United_States_Combined_Statistical_Areas
According the wiki a solid 7.47 compared to the bay's 7.26. I don't know anything about the population density at all.

[Nat Bailey]

Expansion/relocation cities:

"foreign" markets-
Mexico City
Vancouver, BC (used to support AAA teams okay)


Oh yes!! I voted 'Other' for Vancouver, a fine baseball town that lobbied MLB pretty hard in the mid 80s for a team...

[jnakamura]

So I actually looked into AAA attendance figures. My conclusion is that neither Portland or Charolette would support a MLB franchise.

There are significant reasons why the Beavers attendance is not very good that have nothing to do with a lack of passion. The stadium is in a very inconvenient location with no parking, and the teams "beaver" identity is dwarfed by the OSU Beavers. The team is not marketed very well IMO and the in-game experience is not up to AAA standards.

[minorfan]

It's funny - I saw the PCL/IL All-Star Game from Portland back in July, and have caught a Beavers home game on on of my extra sports channels since and decided that Portland has a really cool stadium - that I most likeley never get to see in person (living on the opposite side of the country and all).

I guess this would be the opposite of "familiarity breeds contempt" or something like that...

[Honus Wagner Rules]

There are significant reasons why the Beavers attendance is not very good that have nothing to do with a lack of passion. The stadium is in a very inconvenient location with no parking, and the teams "beaver" identity is dwarfed by the OSU Beavers. The team is not marketed very well IMO and the in-game experience is not up to AAA standards.

One of my good friends lives in Portland. And he told me that several years ago an organization was formed for the expressed purpose of bringing major league baseball to Portland. I can't remember the name of this organization off hand.

[PeteU]

Right now, as most other people here agree, expansion is probably unlikely for another 15-20 years.

That being said, of the candidates mentioned, I wouldn't mind seeing Portland or Charlotte be given teams. Nor would Indianapolis or Sacramento be bad choices either.

Sentimentally, a personal favorite I'd love to see is Jacksonville, but honestly that market still needs to grow further before it can be a realisitic host of MLB. (Orlando is too close to Tampa Bay IMO, and suffers from being primarily a tourist city).

I definetly wouldn't like to see Las Vegas--nothing I can think of would find it all that great of a market.

Nor do I want to see another team in New York or Boston. I don't see why any metro area needs more than two teams, and as for Boston, the new team would bound to be an unpopular second wheel for Sox crazy beantown.

[jnakamura]

One of my good friends lives in Portland. And he told me that several years ago an organization was formed for the expressed purpose of bringing major league baseball to Portland. I can't remember the name of this organization off hand.

It was/is called the Portland Baseball Group.

Recent article:

http://www.dwightjaynes.com/major-league-baseball-in-portland

[UnderPressure]

the sf bay area is 7 million

san jose is the 10th largest city in the country, san francisco just behind it, oakland not too far down the road, san jose is 30 miles from oakland and 45 miles from SF

what is boston?

The Bay Area is just too scattered. San Jose, San Francisco, and Oakland identify themselves as one? I know Oakland would want to separate themselves, but is there a rivalry between SF and SJ?

[Zagi-CRO]

Another team from Boston.
What's about Montreal? :ooo:

[GiambiJuice]

New Orleans
Portland
Salt Lake City
Nashville or Memphis

[Captain Cold Nose]

Another team from Boston.
What's about Montreal? :ooo:

Two teams from Boston didn't quote make it before.

If a team from Montreal is allowed to survive, and things are done the right way unlike how things ended with the Expos, maybe.

I think MLB would be better off in tapping new markets as opposed to where they've been in the past.

[GiambiJuice]

Baseball is an American sport. I don't understand people wanting to expand MLB into other countries. Don't they have their own leagues?

[Captain Cold Nose]

Baseball is an American sport. I don't understand people wanting to expand MLB into other countries. Don't they have their own leagues?

Baseball is an international sport, despite what the Olympics would have you believe.

[leecemark]

--One team would need to be in the West for geographical balance. That could be Portland or Vancouver B.C. (Candada), or Mexico City or Las Vegas or Sacremento. Not sure which has the best market. I suspect Mexico City would be a tough sell for American free agents - or even home grown American players when they were FA eligible - but it would be a hot bed to Latin talent. That could actually give them a advantage over most teams.
--The other I'd put in New Jersey or Brooklyn or Long Island. If that didn't work out then perhaps a team somewhere int he Carolinas would get enough regional support to be viable (or would Nashville be a better epicenter for Southern fans?

[GiambiJuice]

Baseball is an international sport, despite what the Olympics would have you believe.

What I mean is that the Major Leagues should be an American Major League. Why do we need to put teams in other countries? Why does everything need to be globalized?

I can understand branching out and creating a sister league for Europe, Latin America, etc..but I want to keep other countries out of our league. I'm not thrilled about having a team in Toronto, but at least it's close to our border and is an english speaking city.

[Captain Cold Nose]

What I mean is that the Major Leagues should be an American Major League. Why do we need to put teams in other countries? Why does everything need to be globalized?

I can understand branching out and creating a sister league for Europe, Latin America, etc..but I want to keep other countries out of our league. I'm not thrilled about having a team in Toronto, but at least it's close to our border and is an english speaking city.

If players from all over the world are "good enough" to play, why not the cities they come from?

[GiambiJuice]

If players from all over the world are "good enough" to play, why not the cities they come from?

The schedule would have to be made shorter to compensate for all the extra travel time. Can you imagine the Yankees going on a road trip to play in London, The Netherlands, and Tokyo?

Plus baseball is our National Pastime. It may be an international sport now but MLB should be composed of American teams (or at least North American teams). I don't understand the need to globalize everything. Why can't Japan have a league (which they do, and it's a very successful one) Europe have a league, Latin America have a league, etc.?

It's just my opinion.

[Imgran]

Montreal once hosted a very successful baseball team, until bad ownership and a run down stadium cost them their fanbase. They maintained a good farm system and were a source of big league talent right up until the end. I see no reason that INTELLIGENT ownership couldn't do the same thing again, esepcially if they take the time to prepare and do things the right way. If it was in the American League East, an instant rivalry with Toronto would help to sustain the franchise (and wouldn't hurt the Jays at all, either!)

I think the instant explosion of popularity that would ensue if a franchise was born again in Brooklyn would get it through the initial doldrums of being an expansion team and would force the media not to ignore it (however much specifically the Mets would hate that).

I like the idea of an expansion into Salt Lake. It might be a interesting to see how they manage an MLB park which couldn't make money on beer and alcohol sales. I'm not sure the Valley of the Great Salt Lake has the population to sustain a team though (but then, the Jazz does OK).

Portland is a possibility as well, they need an NL West team north of freakin' Colorado.

The division structure was designed for a 36 team league. 6 divisions, 6 teams per division. I think if you looked around the country you could find 6 towns that could support an MLB franchise. The question is setting up the divisions to make it work.

[GiambiJuice]

Portland is a possibility as well, they need an NL West team north of freakin' Colorado.


San Francisco?

[jnakamura]

San Francisco?

Denver is farther north than SF.

[GiambiJuice]

Denver is farther north than SF.

Well I guess I learn something new every day :ooo:

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Denver is farther north than SF.

strange but true reno is farther west than los angeles

[jnakamura]

strange but true reno is farther west than los angeles

I've won a few bets with that one. :D

[Milt on Tilt]

Since we got into discussion about the OTHER major league, NPB, I want to express my desire for a true WORLD Series. No interleague play, obviously, just a series between league winners. How is that not a money maker?

[Imgran]

The Japanese leagues are as close to a major baseball league as you find outside of MLB but their teams can't sustain the level of overall talent ours can. The US team wins 4 times out of 5 at least.

[Milt on Tilt]

The Japanese leagues are as close to a major baseball league as you find outside of MLB but their teams can't sustain the level of overall talent ours can. The US team wins 4 times out of 5 at least.

The question is not who would win, it's would you watch?

[Imgran]

It'd be a morning game. If it isn't a Saturday, I won't have the chance.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

The Japanese leagues are as close to a major baseball league as you find outside of MLB but their teams can't sustain the level of overall talent ours can. The US team wins 4 times out of 5 at least.
MLB has such a advantage in terms of power hitting that's hard to overcome. Also, MLB pulls talent from a much larger pool of baseball players. I believe that the NPB still has a limit on the number of foreign born players allowed per team. I can't even imagine such a rule being part of MLB.

[Imgran]

Don't forget that it wasn't THAT long since not all Americans could even play MLB.

I think a 36 team league is our eventual future.

[9RoyHobbsRF]

Don't forget that it wasn't THAT long since not all Americans could even play MLB.

I think a 36 team league is our eventual future.

thats going to be a big roster for the meaningless exhibition ASG that determines HFA and requires a player from each franchise

the introductions might take one hour

[Imgran]

thats going to be a big roster for the meaningless exhibition ASG that determines HFA and requires a player from each franchise

the introductions might take one hour

It wouldn't be much of a stretch to construct a 25 man roster from 18 teams.

[bob]

Don't forget that it wasn't THAT long since not all Americans could even play MLB.

50% still cant. We call them "women". :shhh:

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Don't forget that it wasn't THAT long since not all Americans could even play MLB.

I think a 36 team league is our eventual future.

MLB and the NPB could just merge. :nod:

[Imgran]

MLB and the NPB could just merge. :nod:

Pretending for a moment that you were being serious I have my suspicions that NPB would probably balk at that. They'd lose some franchises in the crossover at the very least. Their baseball culture is similar but very distinct, I'm not sure how well it'll mesh with MLB. And they certainly aren't going to want an American commissioner.

[d32123]

Las Vegas! I'd have'm play indoors though. Also, bring back the Expos!

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Pretending for a moment that you were being serious I have my suspicions that NPB would probably balk at that. They'd lose some franchises in the crossover at the very least. Their baseball culture is similar but very distinct, I'm not sure how well it'll mesh with MLB. And they certainly aren't going to want an American commissioner.

I wasn't really being serious. But I agree with you. The air travel across the Pacific would be too hard on the players, too many time zones to cross. I've spent some time in Japan. To the Japanese having the NPB mostly made up of Japanese players is very important to them. They would never merge with MLB. We had a good thread a couple years aback about the possbility of having a MLB-NPB World Series. Surprisingly, many major leaguers would be interested in such a World Series.

http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=35384&highlight=Japanese+champ

[Bulldog19]

the introductions might take one hour

As if it didn't this year? All of the pre-game stuff took almost as long as the game itself. But we must remember that playing the game is not very important as much as Selig tries to make it...

[Seattle1]

I clicked "other" for Portland, Oregon. Vancouver, BC might not be a bad idea either.

This is all in theory of course. I'm not convinced that expansion is warranted. But if there was expansion, those are probably the first two cities I would pick. Although that would eat into the Mariners fan base. But still.

[jnakamura]

I clicked "other" for Portland, Oregon. Vancouver, BC might not be a bad idea either.

This is all in theory of course. I'm not convinced that expansion is warranted. But if there was expansion, those are probably the first two cities I would pick. Although that would eat into the Mariners fan base. But still.

An AL west rivalry between the Seattle Mariners and Portland Hippies would do more good than harm to the M's.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I clicked "other" for Portland, Oregon. Vancouver, BC might not be a bad idea either.

This is all in theory of course. I'm not convinced that expansion is warranted. But if there was expansion, those are probably the first two cities I would pick. Although that would eat into the Mariners fan base. But still.

How many Mariners' fan are in Portland? The Seattle Supersonics and Portland Trailblazers seem to have had their own distinct fan base.

[jnakamura]

How many Mariners' fan are in Portland? The Seattle Supersonics and Portland Trailblazers seem to have had their own distinct fan base.

Quite a few. There are Mariners billboards all over the place and the local news reports the Mariners as if they're the featured home team, after all they're the only MLB team in the Pacific Northwest.

Similarly, Las Vegas and San Diego both have HUGE Lakers fan bases for the same reason.

[Seattle1]

How many Mariners' fan are in Portland? The Seattle Supersonics and Portland Trailblazers seem to have had their own distinct fan base.

A lot of people come up from Portland for Seahawks and Mariners games. Both teams have a geographically enormous fan base because there are no other teams around. Washington, Oregon, Idaho, western Montana, Alaska, western Canada.

But yeah, it could work which is why I in fact suggest Portland. Even though I look at it with mixed feelings to some certain degree.

[Trickyhop]

Speaking of Portland and Seattle rivalries, I can't wait for Portland to get their MLS team going, much less Vancouver.

I voted other for Vancouver and Portland as well. And why not Alaska? Some midnight baseball might be fun to watch! Also, they could take the name 'Mariners' and we could go back to being the Pilots. Please? :D

[BiZmaRK]

I don't know about Indy really... The problem with Indy is it's too close to a lot of teams (Reds (2 hrs)/White Sox & Cubs (3 hrs)/Cardinals(4hrs)/Tigers (4-5 hrs)/Cleveland (5 hrs)) so you got a whole state that has fans between 6 teams... also I don't know how many fans it would attract every year and where would you put the stadium?

As much I would like to see a pro team in Indy (cuz I would be able to see a lot of games there), the town is more suited for the Indianapolis Indians (Pirate's AAA team) at the moment as I go to several games there every year. I don't see a pro team in Indy in the near future yet, but if they decided to add a couple teams in like say... 10-15 years then maybe I could see Indy being a possible solution.

As of right now, I would go with Portland, Ore.
Are the Indianapolis Indians not a pro team? Last time I checked, all AAA teams were pro teams.

[The Splendid Splinter]

Are the Indianapolis Indians not a pro team? Last time I checked, all AAA teams were pro teams.

yeah yeah... if you really want to get technical with it. When I said pro, I meant a MLB team. So like I said, Indianapolis, at the moment, is more suited for an AAA team which they do very well in attendance there. So I could've used MLB instead of pro in my post, but I think everyone else knew what I was talking about there.

Again, if they were gonna to expand in like 10-15 years with 2 more teams... They could go with Indianapolis, but that would make the divisions all whacked out. I mean if you make them in the NL Central... that's St. Louis, Chicago, Indianapolis, Cincy all within like 5 hours of each other then you got Houston/Milwaukee/Pittburgh left so who would stay... Probably be better in the AL with Chicago/Cleveland/Detroit and one of Kansas City/Minnesota teams would have to move to the West.

IMO, I don't think we need an expansion in a long time and if we do, we need to have teams where they're nobody that close to other teams (to make the divisions alignment work out better). Places like Memphis/Nashville/Carolinas/Portland/Canada somewhere/Salt Lake/etc... I would go through that list before I get to a place like Indianapolis/a 3rd NY team/etc...

[RangerRed]

San Antonio, Texas

[spark240]

I mostly agree with this as well. But I have no doubt that a third team in NY could be successful, especially with the fall of the Mets.

Sure, a third NY team could be successful. But what does it really add to the total baseball experience, for all fans collectively? Isn't it just more interesting to have a team in a place not already represented? Isn't the league as a whole better positioned for success with a broader coverage and more diversity?

[Iron Jaw]

No need to expand right now. But if they did, Indy might be a decent choice. When I went to a school at Ft. Harrison long ago, when I was a young Marine, I remember many of the folks in Indy who were fans of the Reds, the Cubbies or ChiSox, and there were many Cardinal fans as well. I went to a few games that year at the old Bush Stadium when the Indianapolis Indians were a AAA farm club of the Reds.

How about Charlotte, NC? Big place nowadays. They have an NFL franchise.

Oklahoma City? Good AAA support for many years.

If NY had a third team I would suggest Buffalo. They used to fill that AAA park pretty well.

Salt Lake City? Memphis? San Antoino - a third team in Texas?

California has the population but the state is broke. Two teams in the Bay area has always been two teams too many.

[metfan13]

No need to expand right now. But if they did, Indy might be a decent choice. When I went to a school at Ft. Harrison long ago, when I was a young Marine, I remember many of the folks in Indy who were fans of the Reds, the Cubbies or ChiSox, and there were many Cardinal fans as well. I went to a few games that year at the old Bush Stadium when the Indianapolis Indians were a AAA farm club of the Reds.

How about Charlotte, NC? Big place nowadays. They have an NFL franchise.

Oklahoma City? Good AAA support for many years.

If NY had a third team I would suggest Buffalo. They used to fill that AAA park pretty well.

Salt Lake City? Memphis? San Antoino - a third team in Texas?

California has the population but the state is broke. Two teams in the Bay area has always been two teams too many.

NO. They can't even get a downtown AAA stadium built. Already has NFL, NBA and NASCAR. Not nearly the population in surrounding area for mid-week baseball.

[ol' aches and pains]

I voted Other, as in nobody. I don't think expansion is necessary or desireable.

That said, I'd love to see the road jersey for Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Yuba City, CA-NV.

[Milt on Tilt]

I voted Other, as in nobody. I don't think expansion is necessary or desireable.

That said, I'd love to see the road jersey for Sacramento-Arden-Arcade-Yuba City, CA-NV.

Ha. Well done, sir.

[Imgran]

Are the Indianapolis Indians not a pro team? Last time I checked, all AAA teams were pro teams.

Semantically yes, it's a team full of players who get paid, but since the minor league affiliates aren't responsible for organizing or paying the members of their roster I'd hesitate to call them a true professional team

[Richard]

First, get stadiums for Tampa and Oakland and then think about expansion.

[NJRob65]

None, there are enough teams already. Many of the market are too small, some of them New Orleans & Charlotte have proven track records of failures as Triple A franchises. Some of the areas listed are actually declining in population. The economic downturn has hit certain areas listed very hard, notably Las Vegas & Charlotte very hard. Las Vegas also has the betting on professional sports situation. I also doubt that any would be financially successful. A third team in the New York metro region may, but it would have a big uphill climb.

An existing franchises moving to an area is a possibility, but that's no guarantee of success, financially or otherwise, as witnessed by the Nationals situation.

[Pete Rose Rounding Third]

I want to see an MLB team in San Antonio. I want to have a team to get truly excited about between June and November.

[Iron Jaw]

I want to see an MLB team in San Antonio. I want to have a team to get truly excited about between June and November.

I remember when they had a USFL team called the San Antonio Gunslingers. One of my college teammates played for them.

If they took that name it would be akin to the old Houston Colt .45's.

[Avg_Hr_Rbi]

man if they expand the talent pool in the majors will be even weaker then it is now..already alot of players who wouldn't be in the majors if not for expansion..my vote is NOT...

but for the sake of the OP...I'd go with Salt Lake City, or Portland.....a place where MLB baseball isn't nor has never been before....

[Imgran]

My guess is that any firearms related name would go the way of the Washington Bullets and aforementioned Colt .45's. I don't think you can get a name like that past the outrage police these days.

[BiZmaRK]

yeah yeah... if you really want to get technical with it. When I said pro, I meant a MLB team. So like I said, Indianapolis, at the moment, is more suited for an AAA team which they do very well in attendance there. So I could've used MLB instead of pro in my post, but I think everyone else knew what I was talking about there.

Regardless of whether or not we're being technical, a AAA team is a pro team.

I would say each MLB team has to play a few regular season games (minimum one three game series) at a non-MLB city.

Among the non-MLB locations that have played host to MLB games are Las Vegas, Monterrey & Japan. How about a Padres-Diamondbacks series in Honolulu? Or a Astros-Braves series in Caracas? And a Nationals-Mets series in Montreal? You could also have a Mariners-Rangers series in Portland, a A's-Angels series in Las Vegas, a Cardinals-Pirates series in Nashville. Keep them regional such that the game(s) are in a place that has a strong fan base for one of the teams.

[dgarza]

My guess is that any firearms related name would go the way of the Washington Bullets and aforementioned Colt .45's. I don't think you can get a name like that past the outrage police these days.

Buffalo Bills are probably the closest they come these days.

[Dodgeboy]

I'll just quote myself from a year ago:


What the heck, here's my crazy scheme.

REMINDER: This is a LOOONNNNGGG range plan! 2030 to 2040. I will gladly and intelligently discuss pros, cons, alternates, suggestions, etc.
PLEASE don't say cliché things about talent dilution, etc: by the time anything like this would happen, I'm sure there will be enough players.

2012-2015 (Post-Selig era)

Add Portland to the AL West
*They were runners-up in the Expo's sweepstakes. Adds another team in the pacific NW.
Add Montreal to the AL East
*Montreal got a raw deal. VERY bad ownership, a bad stadium,etc. It would take a very rich owner, and the new MLB commish should apologize to the baseball fans there for the way it ended last time (See MN Wild/Northstars)
Also, placing Montreal in the AL creates a natural rivalry with Toronto; it's the Canadian New York vs Boston.
**Pittsburg moves to the NL East

2020-2024

Add an AL East team in North Carolina (Raleigh-Durham is my pick)
*Creates an AL counterpart to the Braves
Add Vancouver to the AL West
*Finishes off the three major Canadian cities. Should be large enough to support a team
*Move Toronto to AL Central to make room for Carolina team - one Canadian team per AL division

2030 -->

Add teams to Salt Lake City and Las Vegas. They could be NL or AL if other AL teams would agree to switch leagues. By this time, they should have the population necessary for support.

Ideally (for me anyway - this is my dream), Texas would move to the NL Central to finally play their games in the right time zone and start a rivalry with Houston.

Leaving us with something like this:

AL East: Montreal, Boston, NY Yankees, Baltimore, Carolina, and Tampa Bay

AL Central: Toronto, Detroit, Cleveland, Chicago WS, Minnesota, and Kansas City

AL West: Vancouver, Seattle, Portland, San Jose (Oakland), LA Angels, and Salt Lake

NL East: Pittsburg, Philly, NY Mets, Washington, Atlanta, and Miami

NL Central: Texas, Houston, Cincinnati, Chicago Cubs, Milwaukee, and St Louis

NL West: San Francisco, LA Dodgers, San Diego, Colorado, Las Vegas, and Arizona

Remember, this is for the year 2030 and beyond

[micsmith]

Portland for 8 reasons:
1. No NFL
2. It is the largest metro area without an MLB team.
3. It is the second largest media market without an MLB team.
4. By putting it in the AL west, you might create a natural rivalry with the Mariners.
5. You could market to the entire state.
6. The drive from Seattle to Portland for road games of each city is not all that far.
7. Being on the west coast and in the AL west makes travel and television viewing easier since there is no crossing of time zones.
8. The Portland area is growing at a pretty good clip.

The drawbacks are:
1. There are already a ton of pro sports teams in Portland.
2. There are not a lot of big companies, Fortune 500 companies based in Portland.
3. It doesn't really have a wealthy population - lots of blue collar workers and families with below-the-national-average incomes.
4. The only time the weather is good in Portland is in the summer, so people want to hike, travel, do outdoor activities, not go to a ballgame.

Sacramento for 5 reasons:
1. The Sacramento River Cats consistently draw the most fans year in and year out for all minor league organizations.
2. No NFL
3. Sacramento is graowing pretty fast as well.
4. By putting it in the AL West you might create a natural rivalry with the A's.
5. It is one of the largest media markets without an MLB team
6. Being near the west coast and in the AL west makes travel and television viewing easier since there is no crossing of time zones.

The drawbacks are:
1. The A's do not draw a ton of fans, and having a 3rd NoCal team is going to hurt them.
2. Many of Sacramento baseball fans are loyal to the Giants and A's so it would be tougher to create a loyal fan base.


I think it is a great idea to expand the AL to 16 teams, and not just for symmetry's sake. But, a few things would have to happen first:

1. The A's have got to get a new stadium. If it is in Oakland or San Jose or Fremont, fine. If they moved farther from Sacramento (say, to Fremont), then that would help the case of having an expansion team in Sacramento.

2. The Texas Rangers would have to move to the AL Central. The Rangers would then be the 6th team in the AL central with Portland and Sacramento becoming the 4th and 5th teams in the AL west. This is a good idea for two reasons:

1. The Rangers are in the central time zone, but their rivals are all two time zones away - this sucks for the television audience in Texas and for team travel.

2. For some reason I think having 2 expansion teams debut in the same division would somehow be better for those two teams. When the Padres and Rays debuted, they got beat down for years by thei other, established teams in their divisions. With two expansion teams in the same division, at least one is guaranteed not to finish in last.

With all of that, I think MLB could expand no earlier than 2014.

[metfan13]

I'll just quote myself from a year ago:

Raleigh a counterpart to the Braves? You do realize that Raleigh is much closer to Baltimore or DC than to Atlanta?

[BiZmaRK]

Portland for 8 reasons:
1. No NFL
2. It is the largest metro area without an MLB team.
3. It is the second largest media market without an MLB team.
4. By putting it in the AL west, you might create a natural rivalry with the Mariners.
5. You could market to the entire state.
6. The drive from Seattle to Portland for road games of each city is not all that far.
7. Being on the west coast and in the AL west makes travel and television viewing easier since there is no crossing of time zones.
8. The Portland area is growing at a pretty good clip.

The drawbacks are:
1. There are already a ton of pro sports teams in Portland.
2. There are not a lot of big companies, Fortune 500 companies based in Portland.
3. It doesn't really have a wealthy population - lots of blue collar workers and families with below-the-national-average incomes.
4. The only time the weather is good in Portland is in the summer, so people want to hike, travel, do outdoor activities, not go to a ballgame.

Sacramento for 5 reasons:
1. The Sacramento River Cats consistently draw the most fans year in and year out for all minor league organizations.
2. No NFL
3. Sacramento is graowing pretty fast as well.
4. By putting it in the AL West you might create a natural rivalry with the A's.
5. It is one of the largest media markets without an MLB team
6. Being near the west coast and in the AL west makes travel and television viewing easier since there is no crossing of time zones.

The drawbacks are:
1. The A's do not draw a ton of fans, and having a 3rd NoCal team is going to hurt them.
2. Many of Sacramento baseball fans are loyal to the Giants and A's so it would be tougher to create a loyal fan base.


I think it is a great idea to expand the AL to 16 teams, and not just for symmetry's sake. But, a few things would have to happen first:

1. The A's have got to get a new stadium. If it is in Oakland or San Jose or Fremont, fine. If they moved farther from Sacramento (say, to Fremont), then that would help the case of having an expansion team in Sacramento.

2. The Texas Rangers would have to move to the AL Central. The Rangers would then be the 6th team in the AL central with Portland and Sacramento becoming the 4th and 5th teams in the AL west. This is a good idea for two reasons:

1. The Rangers are in the central time zone, but their rivals are all two time zones away - this sucks for the television audience in Texas and for team travel.

2. For some reason I think having 2 expansion teams debut in the same division would somehow be better for those two teams. When the Padres and Rays debuted, they got beat down for years by thei other, established teams in their divisions. With two expansion teams in the same division, at least one is guaranteed not to finish in last.

With all of that, I think MLB could expand no earlier than 2014.

It sounds like you're suggesting Portland should be in the American League. I'd say put them in the National League. Perhaps move the Marlins to Portland.

As for Sacramento, that's where the A's should move.

I certainly don't find it a coincidence that the two teams lowest in home attendance play at two of the three MLB stadiums that are shared with NFL teams.

[Altitude]

To prop Sacramento up is hilarious. The Kings (NBA) might go back for Kansas City. Also a few broke NHL franchises (Phoenix, Atlanta, Tampa Bay, Florida and Nashville) have their eyes on Kansas City. There is going to be a few relocations in the NBA and NHL. That might play into the MLB expansion as well.

1. Salt Lake City
2. Portland/Vancouver
3. Carolina
4. Nashville/Memphis

[Imgran]

Forgive me for being a bit nostalgic, but I miss the Expos. They were my first team in a way. I was very sad when they moved to Washington.

Given the history with Seattle, Miwaukee and Kansas City, once a city is abandoned by MLB it is very frequently given another chance to expand into the league and I don't see why Montreal would be an exception.

Montreal could work if it's in the American League East. It would be propped up a little by Boston and New York, and a lot more by a natural rivalry with Toronto.

It would also gain strength from the historic hockey rivalry between Montreal and Boston. That's actually a bigger deal than most baseball fans recognize, especially in Montreal. I have no doubt the Habs-B's rivals would rally around their city's respective baseball teams when they played each other.

One of the problems of Montreal in the NL was a lack of natural rivals. I really think that if they're in the AL East (even if it means moving Toronto to the AL Central) and leaving them nearly drowning in rivalries, that that would be much more likely to work.

[metfan13]

Forgive me for being a bit nostalgic, but I miss the Expos. They were my first team in a way. I was very sad when they moved to Washington.

Given the history with Seattle, Miwaukee and Kansas City, once a city is abandoned by MLB it is very frequently given another chance to expand into the league and I don't see why Montreal would be an exception.

Montreal could work if it's in the American League East. It would be propped up a little by Boston and New York, and a lot more by a natural rivalry with Toronto.

It would also gain strength from the historic hockey rivalry between Montreal and Boston. That's actually a bigger deal than most baseball fans recognize, especially in Montreal. I have no doubt the Habs-B's rivals would rally around their city's respective baseball teams when they played each other.

One of the problems of Montreal in the NL was a lack of natural rivals. I really think that if they're in the AL East (even if it means moving Toronto to the AL Central) and leaving them nearly drowning in rivalries, that that would be much more likely to work.

If you moved Toronto to the Central how would Montreal be any better off in the AL East v. the NL East.

Why are Boston, NY, Baltimore, Tampa beter rivals than NY, Philly, Atlanta, Florida?

[Domenic]

If you moved Toronto to the Central how would Montreal be any better off in the AL East v. the NL East.

Why are Boston, NY, Baltimore, Tampa beter rivals than NY, Philly, Atlanta, Florida?

Did you read his post?

There's an historical rivalry between the cities of Boston and Montreal that extends beyond sports and, as it stands, teams in the AL East play teams in the AL Central at least six times per season - that is not insignificant.

[metfan13]

Did you read his post?

There's an historical rivalry between the cities of Boston and Montreal that extends beyond sports and, as it stands, teams in the AL East play teams in the AL Central at least six times per season - that is not insignificant.

If the 30+ years of playing in the same division as NY and Philly didn't generate a rivalry, expecting one from a different sport can't do much.

[Domenic]

If the 30+ years of playing in the same division as NY and Philly didn't generate a rivalry, expecting one from a different sport can't do much.

The rivalry between Boston and Montreal dates back to the 1700's - the cities have had a long-standing rivalry, that transcends sports, and could help excite fans as a results. I believe that there is good reason to expect a rivalry to develop, with the excitement of having a new team, taken hand in hand with pre-existing rivalries. This is something that the NL East never offered.

Further, having Toronto in the same league and competing against Toronto at least six times every year would generate excitement, as well. Once more, this is something the NL East never offered.

[Imgran]

If you moved Toronto to the Central how would Montreal be any better off in the AL East v. the NL East.

Why are Boston, NY, Baltimore, Tampa beter rivals than NY, Philly, Atlanta, Florida?

You mean besides the obvious factor of the NL East being a very south-heavy division and all but two of the AL East teams being a tolerable commute from Montreal (or to it)?

All of the NL East teams with one exception (Mets) are farther away from Montreal than 3 current AL East teams (Boston, NY, Toronto). All three being teams Montreal citizens would be very interested in seeing their team beat.

Also the two furthest away AL East teams (Baltimore and Tampa) are the two you would count on the least to help support a new franchise anyway. Meanwhile you WOULD be counting on help from the Braves in particular to keep baseball interesting if Montreal were back in the NL East, and they're way down in Georgia.

I think it's a far, far better fit for Montreal in the AL than the NL. The rivalry with Boston, the rivalry with Toronto, geographic serendipity, it just would work better IMHO.

[metfan13]

Montreal in the NL could just as easily play Toronto of the AL 6 times a year (as the Mets - Yanks do), so that's a non-issue.

Yes Boston is closer than Philly, but is you can travel to NY for games you can easily make it to Philly.

However, I was not aware of this 300 year old blood feud with Boston, so that trumps all.

[Imgran]

Boston's presence in the AL East is the trump card here. but don't overlook the French Canadian/English Canadian thing between Toronto and Motreal. that's been stewing for nearly as long as the feud between Montreal and Boston, and for fairly similar reasons.

But I'm pretty sure that if Montreal had a say, and the unbalanced schedule allowed it, they would be playing the Sox 6 times a year.

Forgive me for saying so, but having New York represented by the Yankees rather than the Mets might make a positive difference too. Nothing personal there, but you know that the Mets have really done nothing in recent years to alleviate their second banana status in New York.