Wally Joyner

[Cowtipper]

Wally Joyner was a solid player over his 16-year career, hitting .289 with 2060 hits, 204 home runs, and 1106 RBI. He walked 833 times and struck only only 825 times in his career. He was an All-Star once, in his rookie season. That year, he also led the league in sacrifice flies.

I think this is kind of weird about Joyner's power: he hit 22 and 34 home runs, respectively, in his first two seasons. Only three times more in his career did he hit at least 15 home runs in a year - I wonder what was the cause of his relative loss of promising power?

According to Baseball Reference, Joyner is most similar to a pretty impressive cast of players, even though they are all non-Hall of Famers: Hal McRae, Jeff Conine, Chris Chambliss, Keith Hernandez, Cecil Cooper, Don Mattingly, Felipe Alou, Dusty Baker, Ken Singleton and George Hendrick.

In his only year of Hall of Fame eligibility, he received a big goose-egg in terms of Hall of Fame votes.

What do you think about Joyner? Should he be in the Hall of Fame? Did he have Hall of Fame potential?

[CircleChange11]

Not.Even.Close.

[Cowtipper]

Oh.Kay.

...

[Lars1220]

At best, he was truly a 10-15 home run guy with a great batting eye and ability to hit for average. However, the first two years sort of skewed the perception of Joyner as a potential power hitter.

1986 was his first year in the league, so if he was only a 15 home run guy at best, he probably got lucky with some pitchers who didn't know who he was, so it led to him hitting six or seven more home runs than he probably should have.

1987 was a year of home run explosion for many MLB players and he benefitted that season.

[CircleChange11]

Oh.Kay.

...

*grin*

I remember when "Wally World" first hit the scene (I was a young lefty 1B/P myself), he was 'everything'. I remember him having his own poster in an era where rookies didn't get their own poster.

There was as much hype/attention/excitement about Joyner as there was Eric Davis or any other young prospect since.

I don't think any "non-milestone" 1B gets even close to the Hall of Fame until Keith Hernandez is elected. He has the MVP, WS titles, and gold gloves, that most of the other do not. To me, Mex is 'borderline' because of intangibles and type of teams he played on ... Joyner, Grace, Clark, etc ... are just not all that close to the HoF despite having good careers (and I would Joyner behind those 2 even).

Two of my all-time favorites are Jose Cruz (Sr) and Willie McGee. While they're in my Hall of Fame, neither are close to being inducted as a player. I know this. I accept this. They're my favorites anyway.

[KCGHOST]

Nice player, but nothing to get worked up about.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Joyner looked like he was on his way after the first couple of seasons. he was as popular as anyone rght out of the gate.

He has admitted he used steroids toward the end of his career, and he regrets it. Not much ado was made of that. I doubt it affected his vote total much.

[Brooklyn]

I vividly remember the rookie of the year race between Joyner and Canseco. For most of the year Joyner was considered the front runner, but if I recall correctly Canseco finished stronger.

I don't remember another ROY "race" having that much hype. I remember at the time being surprised that Canseco won. And looking back at it, I think he deserved it. While Canseco had 50% more home runs than Joyner (33-22), they managed to have the same slugging average, and Joyner had the vastly superior batting average and OBP.

Looking back at Joyner's stats, he had a longer / better career than I remembered. But he's not even close to the HOF. Way too many first basemen ahead of him

[Ace Venom]

If Clark and Grace aren't in, no way should Joyner be in.

[Freakshow]

Joyner did not make the 500-player list in the Collaboration Game. First basemen ahead of him in line for the HOF include (eligible as of 2010):

Mark McGwire
Dick Allen
Joe Start
Fred McGriff
Keith Hernandez
Will Clark
Steve Garvey
Don Mattingly
Norm Cash
Gil Hodges
Mickey Vernon
Boog Powell
Mark Grace
Andres Galarraga
Jack Fournier
Ed Konetchy
Luke Easter
Dolph Camilli
Jake Daubert

[Cougar]

If Clark and Grace aren't in, no way should Joyner be in.

Clark should be a HOFer, Grace could be a HOFer, Joyner is simply not a HOFer.

[ol' aches and pains]

He's not even borderline, and if he was, he's got the stink of steroids on him, which would probably tip the scales against him.

[dgarza]

I rank Wally Joyner roughly around the 90-100 mark of best 1B.

[Cowtipper]

The fact that Joyner used steroids shouldn't really even be considered, considering he did it at the end of his career anyway.

[Cougar]

The fact that Joyner used steroids shouldn't really even be considered, considering he did it at the end of his career anyway.

Probably not, but it vitiates against even a sympathetic hearing for a dubious case.

[NJRob65]

Joyner did not make the 500-player list in the Collaboration Game. First basemen ahead of him in line for the HOF include (eligible as of 2010):

Mark McGwire
Dick Allen
Joe Start
Fred McGriff
Keith Hernandez
Will Clark
Steve Garvey
Don Mattingly
Norm Cash
Gil Hodges
Mickey Vernon
Boog Powell
Mark Grace
Andres Galarraga
Jack Fournier
Ed Konetchy
Luke Easter
Dolph Camilli
Jake Daubert

Interesting, he seems a bit overrated there. I notice that Bob Watson, Mo Vaughn and Joe Adcock are all missing

Any links to the Collaboration Game?

[Brad Harris]

I rank Wally Joyner roughly around the 90-100 mark of best 1B.
I forget where Bill James ranked him.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I remember Joyner's 1986 season quite well. He rode a huge first half (April and May really) to give the impression that he was a young up-and-coming star. He hit 20 of his 22 HRs in the first half of the season. At the end of May Joyner had 16 HRs. He hit six HRs the rest of the season.

[dgarza]

I forget where Bill James ranked him.His 2001 Abstract has Joyner at a generous 37. Of course, that was almost a decade ago.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Clark should be a HOFer, Grace could be a HOFer, Joyner is simply not a HOFer.

Agreed here. The issue is whether or not Joyner had a better career than anyone enshrined in the HOF.

Personally, I think he'd be the worst.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Interesting, he seems a bit overrated there. I notice that Bob Watson, Mo Vaughn and Joe Adcock are all missing

Any links to the Collaboration Game?

John Olerud too

[Fuzzy Bear]

Joyner is part of the 1986 rookie class that was super ballyhooed at the time. There was speculation as to how many HOFer the following crop would produce:

Jose Canseco
Danny Tartabull
Wally Joyner
Will Clark
Pete Incavaglia
Ruben Sierra

Not a HOFer in the bunch, though Canseco sort of comes close.

[Freakshow]

Interesting, he seems a bit overrated there. I notice that Bob Watson, Mo Vaughn and Joe Adcock are all missing

Any links to the Collaboration Game?Here is the link to the Collaboration Game (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=81709). A current project in this forum is a reranking of the 500 player list, The Collaboration Game v2.0. Anyone is welcome to join in, we're currently in election #19.

As for Olerud, he is not eligible for the Hall until the 2011 election (along with Bagwell and Palmeiro), so he was not included in my earlier post in this thread.

[Cougar]

Joyner is part of the 1986 rookie class that was super ballyhooed at the time. There was speculation as to how many HOFer the following crop would produce:

Jose Canseco
Danny Tartabull
Wally Joyner
Will Clark
Pete Incavaglia
Ruben Sierra

Not a HOFer in the bunch, though Canseco sort of comes close.

And Will Clark comes much, much closer...indeed, he belongs!

[CircleChange11]

I thought Joyner was best known for his "Berman Nickname" ... Wally "Absorbine" Joyner.

http://www.absorbine.com/cms/productimg/absorbine_jr_plastic_4oz_bottle___carton_32006_201 .jpg

[Cougar]

Agreed here. The issue is whether or not Joyner had a better career than anyone enshrined in the HOF.

Personally, I think he'd be the worst.

Yeah...I'd take George Kelly over him, and it's not terribly close.

Man, those feel more like fighting words than I really meant them to, but, well, it's true.

[Fuzzy Bear]

And Will Clark comes much, much closer...indeed, he belongs!

Clark's kind of borderline due to injuries, but he's good enough, IMO.

Clark's not only world's better than Joyner, but he's also significantly better, IMO, than Don Mattingly.

[Cougar]

Clark's kind of borderline due to injuries, but he's good enough, IMO.

Clark's not only world's better than Joyner, but he's also significantly better, IMO, than Don Mattingly.

I disagree...subjectively, I think Mattingly had more intangibles...but it's very, very close.

On the numbers alone, the Thrill is better.

[davewashere]

Joyner is like Mattingly Lite. Take Mattingly's numbers and knock off about 5-10% and you've got Joyner. Mattingly was also a better fielder. I don't consider Mattingly a HOFer, so Joyner doesn't even come close.

[Cougar]

Joyner is like Mattingly Lite. Take Mattingly's numbers and knock off about 5-10% and you've got Joyner. Mattingly was also a better fielder. I don't consider Mattingly a HOFer, so Joyner doesn't even come close.

Maybe career wise, but Joyner's peak wasn't within a mile of Mattingly's.

If Mattingly's career weren't abbreviated by the back trouble, his career numbers would leave Joyner's in the dust.

[thefeckcampaign]

I LOVED wALLY wORLD but he's not even close.

[Paul Wendt]

flash in the pan - Y
hall of fame potential - N

only in a general sense that incorporates a lot of uncertainty, "I'm not sure he didn't have hall of fame potential." I don't plan to express that sense here. I would vote "potential" for sluggers Ted Kluszewski and Boog Powell; also for Hal Trosky and Don Mattingly, who were more like Joyner in kind.

add: probably for Cecil Cooper too

[Fuzzy Bear]

I'm not convinced that Joyner was significantly better than Vic Power.

[Cougar]

I'm not convinced that Joyner was significantly better than Vic Power.

I'm pretty sure Joyner wasn't better than Power.

[dgarza]

I rank Wally Joyner roughly around the 90-100 mark of best 1B.
Actually, my new rankings bump him up to the 75-80 range, sandwiched in this group :

Stuffy McInnis
Ripper Collins
Wally Pipp
Joe Kuhel
Wally Joyner
Charlie Hickman
Andre Thornton
Mike Hargrove
Earl Torgeson