All-Decade Team: 2000s – Right Fielders (Vote for 2)

[Freakshow]

I realize that the Current Events Forum has recently run polls on this. However, those ballots appeared to be drawn up somewhat unsystematically, the OF were all thrown together, and they weren’t even in alphabetical order. I think we can do this a bit better. Here’s my format:

• We’ll create a 25-man team; these will be on the ballot for the final election, along with a few wild cards.
• We’ll have ten preliminary polls, one for each position.
• We’ll vote for two players at each position (16 players total), plus five starting pitchers, plus four relievers. DH will not be listed separately, since only a handful of significant players played a majority of their games there.
• Data will be provided: total Win Shares 2000-2008 plus top 3 seasons in the decade; total WARP3 2000-2009 plus top 3 seasons; MVP award top 3 finishes in the decade. Other stats (OPS+, RC, etc.) are as of the 2009 all-star break.
• Players will be ranked only on their play in the decade 2000-2009; performance before 2000 should be ignored. Active players should be projected only to the end of this season; what you think they might do after this season is irrelevant.
• I’ll try and get the ten polls up fairly quickly. They’ll stay open for about a month.

We'll vote for two right fielders. If a RF is one of the Top 2 in a stat among these players it's highlighted below.
Player 3MVP ASG OPS+ RC OBP SLG G GG WARP3 Top 3 WS Top 3
Bobby Abreu 14-16-17 2 133 1183 0.403 0.495 1502 1 66.2 (8.1-7.9-7.9) 231 (33-29-28)
Brian Giles 9-13-19 2 136 1075 0.400 0.494 1407 45.7 (7.8-7.4-6.9) 225 (32-31-29)
Vlad Guerrero 1-3-3 7 147 1117 0.393 0.572 1378 57.7 (8.2-7.9-7.8) 227 (29-29-28)
Magglio Ordonez 2-8-12 5 132 938 0.377 0.522 1289 30.0 (9.3-5.3-4.8) 182 (34-25-25)
Gary Sheffield 2-3-8 4 141 976 0.394 0.530 1241 50.7 (8.4-7.4-7.2) 207 (34-31-31)
Sammy Sosa 2-8-9 4 142 768 0.372 0.570 945 30.5 (11.4-7.8-6.0) 148 (42-30-27)
Ichiro Suzuki 1-7-8 9 118 1001 0.378 0.433 1360 8 60.4 (9.4-7.9-7.3) 210 (36-33-27)

[PVNICK]

Tough call but I went with Ichiro who other than OPS+ comes out on or near the top in the other metrics and ... Sheffield. What a difference from CF wher everyone was good to great to historically great here it's almost the inverse excepting Ichiro who presumabbly fares better in the non-OPS+ metrics b/c of defense.

[dgarza]

Guerrero & Abreu

[Domenic]

Suzuki and Abreu.

While I'm not surprised to see Guerrero leading over Abreu, I do think that a closer look needs to be paid to Abreu's numbers. While Guerrero had more power, Abreu was a much better baserunner, a better fielder, and had much better plate discipline. Most uber-metrics favor him, as well.

[gman5431]

Vlady and Ichiro

G Man

[Domenic]

A brief comparison of Abreu and Guerrero:

By WAR
Abreu - 32.9
Guerrero - 31.8

By WARP3
Abreu - 66.2
Guerrero - 57.7

By Win Shares
Abreu - 231
Guerrero - 227

By EQA
Abreu - .312
Guerrero - .315

By UZR/150
Abreu - (-)5.7
Guerrero - (-)6.1

By FRAR
Abreu - 171
Guerrero - 101

[Jsquared83]

Bobby and Vlad. Ichiro, albeit a great talent, might be the most overrated player in baseball.

[Brad Harris]

Bobby and Vlad. Ichiro, albeit a great talent, might be the most overrated player in baseball.
Derek Jeter notwithstanding.

[CircleChange11]

Guerrero & Abreu

Same. I'm not 'crazy 'bout Ichiro' Iwhile acknowledging that he's very good). Lotsa hits, sure. Lots of At Bats too. Love the arm.

[CircleChange11]

Derek Jeter notwithstanding.

But, if it weren't for Jeter, established veterans like Paul O'Neill (WS champ in 90) and Tino Martinez and others wouldn't have "learned how to win" *rolls eyes*.

Interesting that as the Yankee's overall talent has gotten better, Jeter's leadership has declined. *wink*

Sorry I could go on forever about Jeter's "leadership". My @$$. He's a really good hitter, average/below shortstop, playing in the biggest market, on the best franchise. Stick his butt in Milwaukee ... and no one cares.

He's the perfect example of "right time, right place".

[Jsquared83]

But, if it weren't for Jeter, established veterans like Paul O'Neill (WS champ in 90) and Tino Martinez and others wouldn't have "learned how to win" *rolls eyes*.

Interesting that as the Yankee's overall talent has gotten better, Jeter's leadership has declined. *wink*

Sorry I could go on forever about Jeter's "leadership". My @$$. He's a really good hitter, average/below shortstop, playing in the biggest market, on the best franchise. Stick his butt in Milwaukee ... and no one cares.

He's the perfect example of "right time, right place".

Ahh, I love the Yankee jealousy. Both Ichiro and Derek will be HOFers one day. Both are great players, however Derek isnt a RF so why are we discussing him in this thread again?

[CircleChange11]

Ahh, I love the Yankee jealousy.

Nothing to do with the Yankees, only the market. NY athletes, for better or worse, get far more than their share of attention. It's not the Yankees fault/credit, it's the market size and the "media center of our country".

Both Ichiro and Derek will be HOFers one day. Both are great players, however Derek isnt a RF so why are we discussing him in this thread again?

No doubt both of them are HoF, I'd vote for both of them. Steve Young is another HoF (NFL) whose career would have likely been vastly different had he stayed in TB and not gone to SF. Right place, right time, right guy.

I think Ichiro is a HoF'er regardless of what team he would have played for. I don't think the same is the case for Jeter. So much of his aura is due to assignment of "leader" or "captain" for the successful Yankee teams (and his playoff success, I won't neglect that). But, really if he's a Mariner/Ranger/Royal that never makes the playoffs, would he have a strong case for the H0F?

We're talking about Jeter because someone brought it up and I ran with it. Probably not fair, borderline hijack. I think Jeter's case is a good example of the impact that media/market can have on a player and the perception. The guy's won 3 Gold Gloves?

In a discussion of Hall of Fame, media attention, and market bonuses certainly play a role. There is some "tie in" to the topic.

[CircleChange11]

I would have thought Magglio would have been "better'n that". Did the lost seasons of 04 and 05 cost him that much in comparison?

[jjpm74]

I think Ichiro is a HoF'er regardless of what team he would have played for. I don't think the same is the case for Jeter. So much of his aura is due to assignment of "leader" or "captain" for the successful Yankee teams (and his playoff success, I won't neglect that). But, really if he's a Mariner/Ranger/Royal that never makes the playoffs, would he have a strong case for the H0F?



?

Jeter is 2 decent seasons away from 3000 hits. He will retire with numbers similar to Cal Ripken who was elected on the 1st ballot. Jeter is a HOFer because he has had a great career. He'd still be a HOFer if he played on the Brewers.

[CircleChange11]

?

Jeter is 2 decent seasons away from 3000 hits. He will retire with numbers similar to Cal Ripken who was elected on the 1st ballot. Jeter is a HOFer because he has had a great career. He'd still be a HOFer if he played on the Brewers.

The 3000 hits for a SS is a clincher. I am mixing ideas/statements into one conversation, when they are two distinct conversations. The confusion and overlap is my fault.

I said this earlier ..

I think Ichiro is a HoF'er regardless of what team he would have played for. I don't think the same is the case for Jeter.

... and that is not accurate. I was thinking of a significant reduction in "Superstar status", but Jeter's ability to hit and stay healthy is not "media/organization dependent". You are correct to point out the difference. Same thing with Ichiro, I was thinking "Superstar" and typed 'HoF'er'.

[Fielding Marshall]

Tough choices...I went with Abreu and Giles.

[Freakshow]

Looks like Guerrero and Suzuki have this one wrapped up.

[KCGHOST]

Abreu and Ichiro.

[Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan]

Suzuki and Abreu.

While I'm not surprised to see Guerrero leading over Abreu, I do think that a closer look needs to be paid to Abreu's numbers. While Guerrero had more power, Abreu was a much better baserunner, a better fielder, and had much better plate discipline. Most uber-metrics favor him, as well.

I can't really tell who the better player is between Abreu and Guerrero, so I took both as my choices on the belief that both are just a bit better than Ichiro.

But the premise of your comment is correct: Abreu may just have the better career so far by a slight margin.

[ghostofelvis]

abreu's numbers kinda took me by surprise...!!!

slowly stealthly putting up a great career...!

the poll is the 2 best rf's of the decade...but if you're assembling a 25 man roster team which two would you go with...?

i will have to go with a couple of other choices...

vladimir and ichiro it is...!!!

tcb~

[yankillaz]

Ichiro and Vlad. Sorry for Abreu, but the thing was too close.