All-Decade Team: 2000s – Shortstops (Vote for 2)

[Freakshow]

I realize that the Current Events Forum has recently run polls on this. However, those ballots appeared to be drawn up somewhat unsystematically, the OF were all thrown together, and they weren’t even in alphabetical order. I think we can do this a bit better. Here’s my format:

• We’ll create a 25-man team, which will be the ballot for the final election.
• We’ll have ten preliminary polls, one for each position.
• We’ll vote for two players at each position (16 players total), plus five starting pitchers, plus four relievers. DH will not be listed separately, since only a handful of significant players played a majority of their games there.
• Data will be provided: total Win Shares 2000-2008 plus top 3 seasons in the decade; total WARP3 2000-2009 plus top 3 seasons; MVP award top 3 finishes in the decade. Other stats (OPS+, RC, etc.) are as of the 2009 all-star break.
• Players will be ranked only on their play in the decade 2000-2009; performance before 2000 should be ignored. Active players should be projected only to the end of this season; what you think they might do after this season is irrelevant.
• I’ll try and get the ten polls up fairly quickly. They’ll stay open for about a month.

We'll vote for two shortstops. If a SS is one of the Top 2 in a stat among these players it's highlighted below.
Player 3MVP ASG OPS+ RC OBP SLG G GG WARP3 Top 3 WS Top 3
No. Garciaparra 7-9-11 4 118 644 0.359 0.499 948 33.7 (9.0-8.7-8.5) 131 (29-26-25)
Carlos Guillen 10-24-x 3 112 655 0.358 0.445 1137 39.5 (10.2-7.5-5.5) 133 (25-22-19)
Derek Jeter 2-10-10 8 121 1050 0.386 0.455 1429 3 55.6 (8.9-8.8-6.1) 220 (32-28-26)
Hanley Ramirez 10-11-x 2 138 462 0.384 0.532 549 30.4 (8.5-7.9-7.9) 84 (32-27-25)
Jimmy Rollins 1-10-17 3 97 849 0.330 0.436 1332 2 45.1 (9.2-5.9-5.7) 178 (28-25-24)
Miguel Tejada 1-5-11 6 117 959 0.348 0.483 1509 57.5 (10.8-7.6-7.0) 211 (32-28-26)
Michael Young 8-11-x 6 104 807 0.347 0.445 1300 1 33.2 (7.0-5.9-4.3) 163 (29-26-25)

[STLCards2]

Jeter and Tejada. Are we adding a poll here too?

[PVNICK]

Jeter is an easy first pick. No. 2 is problematic at best considering Hanley's played so little, Nomar last played SS regularly in '03 and last played a full season in 03 and Rollins has a 97 OPS+ Tejada is the default choice.

[dgarza]

Jeter & Tejada

[CircleChange11]

Jeter & Tejada.

[Edgartohof]

1.) Jeter

2.) Hanley Ramirez


I know what you all will say . . . but I have my reasons.

Tejada would be my other choice, except that 1.) PED issues . . . and 2.) despite that,he is still not nearly as good of a hitter as Hanley. Tejada's career high in OPS+ is 131; Hanley's career OPS+ is 139. And the last 3 seasons, Ramirez has posted the following OPS+: 145, 146, 156, all at ages 23, 24 and 35 - this kid is going places! I mean, he is hitting .351 this season (leading the NL in fact), as well as leading in 2B (34).

[538280]

Hanley Ramirez may be my favorite player playing right now and he IMO is the best player in this group, but he didn't play enough in the decade to go past Jeter and Tejada who played the whole decade.

[nerfan]

Jeter and Tejada. Jeter's really no better than Tejada looking at just this decade. Hanley's probably going to be better than either one.

[CircleChange11]

1.) Jeter

2.) Hanley Ramirez


I know what you all will say . . . but I have my reasons.

Tejada would be my other choice, except that 1.) PED issues . . . and 2.) despite that,he is still not nearly as good of a hitter as Hanley. Tejada's career high in OPS+ is 131; Hanley's career OPS+ is 139. And the last 3 seasons, Ramirez has posted the following OPS+: 145, 146, 156, all at ages 23, 24 and 35 - this kid is going places! I mean, he is hitting .351 this season (leading the NL in fact), as well as leading in 2B (34).

Well, seeing as how SS is the most important defensive position, one has to account for defense in these polls.

Everyone's always looking at OPS+ as if everyone were a 1st baseman.

Some positions require outstanding defense, other positions allow you to "hide a poor fielder there". SS is not that position. I'm not sure exactly how all the stats for fielding are figured, but a SS not getting a ball (without it being an error) that others would get to, are the types of things that lead to rallies/runs (giving a team extra outs) ... even if it doesn't count as a TC, E, etc. IMO these kind of plays happen far more frequently than do the web gems. I think the same of catchers, generally. Yet, I'm sure when we talk greatest catchers of all-time OPS and OPS+ are basically where the discussion stops (thankfully at C, 2 of the best hitters are also 2 of the best defensive C too. Sometimes, it works out).

What is generally considered to be the 'best' quality fielding indicvator, other than watching every play of every game, and nothing where each SS starts the play, where the end up, and if they made the plays they had the chance to make?

[Domenic]

Jeter and Tejada.

Why isn't Rodriguez on this poll? He has played more games at shortstop this decade than Berkman played in left field, for example. I realize that you would rather have each player in a single poll than to have some overlap, but, still, I'm curious.

[Jsquared83]

Jeter and Tejada. Hanley has a chance to have a better offensive career than both tho and I'm a huge Yankees fan.

[PVNICK]

Everyone's always looking at OPS+ as if everyone were a 1st baseman. With this crew the metrics as I recall them have only Rollins as beign good defendsively, Tejada comes out good some years so-so other, Jeter is historically bad and Hanley was challenging him for worst in MLB until last year or so. The others don't stick out.

Try +/-, UZR, There's a Fielding Bible put out by John Dewan that is informative and other sources, that I can't cite off the top of my head.

[CircleChange11]

With this crew the metrics as I recall them have only Rollins as beign good defendsively, Tejada comes out good some years so-so other, Jeter is historically bad and Hanley was challenging him for worst in MLB until last year or so. The others don't stick out.

Try +/-, UZR, There's a Fielding Bible put out by John Dewan that is informative and other sources, that I can't cite off the top of my head.


That's about how I figured them. I thought Tejada would have been more consistently good, and I'm disappointed that Ramirez is seemingly forgetting about defense and going for the power numbers. Jeter has always been bad, despite exceptional performances on routine plays.

[Jsquared83]

That's about how I figured them. I thought Tejada would have been more consistently good, and I'm disappointed that Ramirez is seemingly forgetting about defense and going for the power numbers. Jeter has always been bad, despite exceptional performances on routine plays.

Jeter's having a MUCH better defensive year this year. Borderline GG I'd say to this point.

[CircleChange11]

Jeter's having a MUCH better defensive year this year. Borderline GG I'd say to this point.

You're right. For nthe first time (statistically) he's contributing positive fielding value.

I have no idea how some of the fielding stats are calculated, but I wonder if the MAJOR upgrade at 1B has helped, and having a healthy 3B with lots of range.

I only posit that because it would be darn near unheard of for a guy to just "get good" at fielding at an advancing age, at a demanding position. It could also be that the Yanks have more strikeouts pitchers (?) and so he is getting fewer chances.

[Domenic]

You're right. For nthe first time (statistically) he's contributing positive fielding value.

I have no idea how some of the fielding stats are calculated, but I wonder if the MAJOR upgrade at 1B has helped, and having a healthy 3B with lots of range.

I only posit that because it would be darn near unheard of for a guy to just "get good" at fielding at an advancing age, at a demanding position. It could also be that the Yanks have more strikeouts pitchers (?) and so he is getting fewer chances.

I think Jeter's improvements defensively have to do with positioning. Girardi has been known to tinker with the infield from batter to batter, whereas Torre was more apt to follow specific sets. 2008 and 2009 appear to be his best-fielding seasons to-date, and this coincides with Girardi replacing Torre.

I don't doubt that Teixeira's aided Jeter a great deal (as well as Cano and Rodriguez), but Jeter hasn't had much help on that side of the infield. Rodriguez has a -9.7 UZR/150 this season (after posting a -3.2 UZR/150 last season) and Ransom, who picked up many of the innings left open when Rodriguez was hurt, posted a -33.1 UZR/150 at third.

[Jsquared83]

You're right. For nthe first time (statistically) he's contributing positive fielding value.

I have no idea how some of the fielding stats are calculated, but I wonder if the MAJOR upgrade at 1B has helped, and having a healthy 3B with lots of range.

I only posit that because it would be darn near unheard of for a guy to just "get good" at fielding at an advancing age, at a demanding position. It could also be that the Yanks have more strikeouts pitchers (?) and so he is getting fewer chances.

Wang's injury probably has something to do with this as well.

[Fielding Marshall]

Jeter and Ramirez.

Too much steroids-driven uncertainty for me to go with Tejada. I wince at Ramirez' defense, but there you go.

[Freakshow]

Jeter and Tejada dominate this race.

[Seattle1]

What about Omar Vizquel?

[KCGHOST]

Jeter and Hanley.

[yankillaz]

Jeter and Tejada. Duh...Oh, and AROD.