Pedroia vs Cano?

[Jsquared83]

Nothing like a little Yankee/Sox rivalry so which of these 2Bmen (if any) have better HOF chance. Pedroia is a little younger, only 3rd year in the league but it seems like these guys are pretty evenly matched so far. Cano a little more power (.303/.336/.472), Dustin a little better average and OBP (.310/.370/.452). Both are solid in the field as well. So who's got an early edge on HOF chances?

[Domenic]

Dustin Pedroia.

By OPS+
Pedroia - 110
Cano - 107

By wOBA
Pedroia - .363
Cano - .345

By UZR/150
Pedroia - 6.8
Cano - -4.7

By WAR
Pedroia - 13.1
Cano - 11.7

When factoring in baserunning, Pedroia has been significantly better offensively and, based on UZR, he's much better in the field, as well. Throw in the fact that he has a World Series ring, a Rookie of the Year award, and an MVP, and he's on a much better pace than Cano.

[Cougar]

Dustin Pedroia.

By OPS+
Pedroia - 110
Cano - 107

By wOBA
Pedroia - .363
Cano - .345

By UZR/150
Pedroia - 6.8
Cano - -4.7

By WAR
Pedroia - 13.1
Cano - 11.7

When factoring in baserunning, Pedroia has been significantly better offensively and, based on UZR, he's much better in the field, as well. Throw in the fact that he has a World Series ring, a Rookie of the Year award, and an MVP, and he's on a much better pace than Cano.

Perfect summation.

[jjpm74]

Even as someone who grew up near Yankee Stadium, I see Pedroia as the better player.

[BSmile]

Yeah....gotta go with Pedroia here...and I'm a Yankees fan.
I wish that Cano had the fire that Pedroia seems to have for the game. They're both excellent players...but Pedroia's ROY, MVP and Championship Ring gives him a distinct edge (for now).

[Domenic]

Do those of you voting "neither" - are you saying that neither has an advantage, or that neither is on a Hall of Fame pace?

Since I assume it's the former, I am curious to see why you place the two on, at the very least, mostly equal footing. For what it's worth, Pedroia also has a significant advantage in EQA (.302 to .282) as well.

[PVNICK]

Do those of you voting "neither" - are you saying that neither has an advantage, or that neither is on a Hall of Fame pace?

Since I assume it's the former, I am curious to see why you place the two on, at the very least, mostly equal footing. For what it's worth, Pedroia also has a significant advantage in EQA (.302 to .282) as well.
I had the backwards thought, namely, neither of them is on a HOF pace but since Pedrioa is better he gets my vote with neither meaning they are equal.

[jjpm74]

I had the backwards thought, namely, neither of them is on a HOF pace but since Pedrioa is better he gets my vote with neither meaning they are equal.

That's also why I voted for Pedroia. I don't think either one is anywhere near the HOF and won't be for some time.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Good players, but not a HOF pace for either. I voted neither.

If it's who has a better chance, I'd say Pedroia.

[bob]

Its impossible to say how Pedroia's HOF chances are already, but id rate him the better player (although overrated by the media since he somehow won the MVP).

[Domenic]

I interpreted the question at hand as, essentially, "as it stands, which player has had a better career to-date?" and voted as such. I didn't interpret it as asking if either of them was on-pace to be inducted into the Hall of Fame - if that were the case, I believe "both" would have been an option.

[Fielding Marshall]

Dustin Pedroia.

By OPS+
Pedroia - 110
Cano - 107

By wOBA
Pedroia - .363
Cano - .345

By UZR/150
Pedroia - 6.8
Cano - -4.7

By WAR
Pedroia - 13.1
Cano - 11.7

When factoring in baserunning, Pedroia has been significantly better offensively and, based on UZR, he's much better in the field, as well. Throw in the fact that he has a World Series ring, a Rookie of the Year award, and an MVP, and he's on a much better pace than Cano.

He also has a better batting eye, is more consistent than Cano (who seems to go through slumps every year), and seems to have the intangibles Cano lacks.

But yeah, really good job, Domenic.

[BSmile]

Good players, but not a HOF pace for either. I voted neither.

If it's who has a better chance, I'd say Pedroia.

I voted Pedroia..but yes, neither has played nearly long enough to garner any serious HOF talk.

[Fuzzy Bear]

I'm surprised that a significant number of folks here don't think Pedroia is making good progress toward the HOF. Pedroia has done the kinds of things that the TOP TIER HOFers do out of the gate.

Here's a guy who's won an AL ROY award, a GG at 2B, an AL MVP award, plus, he was a regular on a team that went all the way. He's clearly the best 2B in the AL, and, arguably, the best 2B in baseball (although Chase Utley certainly has a case).

Pedroia's only in his 3rd season, so a lot could go wrong between here and Cooperstown, but I'm hard pressed to think of many guys who have racked up the kind of chrome and leather in two (2) short seasons at the start of their careers as Pedroia has that have NOT gone to the HOF. Most of the guys that I CAN think of are pitchers (Dwight Gooden comes to mind). Pitchers are different than position players due to injury factors. Pedroia's done a lot to project himself toward the HOF; he's already 50-50, IMO, provided he doesn't get hurt, or loses the ability to play 2B. I don't think either will happen; he strikes me as the type of player that will age well.

Cano's problem is that he's perceived as overrated, and no matter what he does, he can't overcome it. He's kind of the Julio Franco of his day, except Julio learned plate discipline and learned to play defense at 2B after being shifted there. Cano's adequate at 2B, but he's still a hacker, and he's 100 points behind Pedroia as an offensive player. Cano's impatience will cause him to age poorly; when he loses bat speed, he'll fade quickly. He doesn't have the patience to make good use of his power. He's an improvement over Juan Samuel, but he's no Pedroia, and I think that he's clearly seen as the inferior player, and by a decent margin.

[Cougar]

Fuzzy's right. Not to put to fine a point on it, but any middle infielder with an MVP goes on the radar. The fact that he was a key player on a championship team is a big deal too.

There's plenty of time to fall off the radar, but it's hard for Pedroia to have a better start towards Cooperstown given his skill set.

[KCGHOST]

Hardly to consider either a HoF candidate yet. Pedroia is better but both are fine players.

[NJRob65]

Way too early to realistically speculate about either one's HoF chance. Wait about seven years.

[PhanInPhlorida]

I went with Pedroia. He already has an MVP early in his career, so that puts him out in front of Cano. Plus Cano doesn't seem to be able to stand out on the stacked Yankees roster, something Pedroia has been able to do on the stacked Red Sox roster. I'm not ruling Cano out completely, but I believe Pedrois is ahead of Cano right now.

[538280]

Pedroia is better than Cano, who is inconsistent, not a great fielder, and despite his BA has essentially an average OBP. But I don't see Pedroia ever being a HOFer. I could be wrong, but to me Pedroia is just a solid MLB player. He hits for a solid average, has good patience, okay power, and is a good fielding 2B. However I really think last year's season at the plate was a little better than you'll usually see from Pedroia. He's not a power hitter at all-he hits line drives and at Fenway they often go for doubles but at other parks I doubt they would so often. He's hit 78 doubles in 920 PA at Fenway, 50 in 960 in other parks. He's a good 2B in that he works hard on positioning, is a smart player, etc. but he's not the greatest athlete, he's not especially quick or fast. I like Pedroia as a Red Sox player obviously but I think he's generally overrated. He's not an MVP caliber player, and he didn't deserve it last year. Kevin Youkilis is the best player on the Red Sox right now.

[538280]

I'm surprised that a significant number of folks here don't think Pedroia is making good progress toward the HOF. Pedroia has done the kinds of things that the TOP TIER HOFers do out of the gate.

Here's a guy who's won an AL ROY award, a GG at 2B, an AL MVP award, plus, he was a regular on a team that went all the way. He's clearly the best 2B in the AL, and, arguably, the best 2B in baseball (although Chase Utley certainly has a case).


There's no way Pedroia is better than Chase Utley. Utley is an elite hitter, he consistently hits .300 or near it, he walks, and what really separates him from Pedroia is that he's a very good power hitter, his SLGs are consistently over .500. And defensive metrics generally show Utley to be a better fielder as well. Utley destroys Pedroia in just about everything, they're not comparable. I think Utley would really have to screw up his career to not be a HOFer, he's had five seasons now including 2009 that are at the level of the elite 2Bmen in history, he's had a 136 OPS+ over a five year stretch, that compares very well to the best five year stretches of guys like Ryne Sandberg, Charlie Gehringer, Roberto Alomar, and Craig Biggio-who are usually in the 2nd tier of 2Bmen historically. Utley is already 30 so he could not quite join those guys but I predict he'll probably be a top 10 2B or close to it.

Utley is the best 2Bman in baseball, but even outside of him there are other guys who are probably better than Pedroia. Ian Kinsler is similar to Pedroia, he has a 117 OPS+ over the past three years, Pedroia's is 114. He's a very good fielder as well. I see him as a player with much more potential than Pedroia because he can hit for more power and I see much of Pedroia's power and even average coming from Fenway Park and don't see him being as talented. However he has been durable over the past few years while KInsler has missed a lot of time so he's probably been more valuable. But they're close. I've also always seen Brian Roberts as a very underrated player, he plays for a bad team so he doesn't get much attention but he has a great OBP and some power, he was great in 2005 and Pedroia's never had a season like that. Plus Roberts is a better baserunner-he's a 40 SB a year guy. Aaron Hill is also having a great year this season, hes among the AL leaders in HRs. This is his first really good year but he's been better than Pedroia this year. So overall with Roberts and Hill I'd say Pedroia may be the 3rd best 2Bman in his division. He's not even close to the best in baseball, Utley has that on lock down.

[PhanInPhlorida]

Its a tough call when it comes to Pedroia against Utley. I of course think Utley is better. But I think Chase is built better, has a little more ability, and is at the very least in the same category in leadership and toughness as Pedroia. Both are HOF quality.

[STLCards2]

I know I am splitting hairs here and I usualy don't delve into semantic arguments, but it is impossible for "neither" to be on a "better" HOF pace. It is possible for "neither" to be on a likely HOf pace, but the pace for one of them has to be better. Sorry, I will move on now.:waving

For the record, Pedroia is leading here - but as stated, well behind the domination of Utley - even with an MVP award.

[STLCards2]

I think Utley would really have to screw up his career to not be a HOFer, he's had five seasons now including 2009 that are at the level of the elite 2Bmen in history, he's had a 136 OPS+ over a five year stretch, that compares very well to the best five year stretches of guys like Ryne Sandberg, Charlie Gehringer, Roberto Alomar, and Craig Biggio-who are usually in the 2nd tier of 2Bmen historically.
.

I am so glad to see somebody else saying this! Thank you Chris!

[CircleChange11]

Dustin Pedroia.

By OPS+
Pedroia - 110
Cano - 107

By wOBA
Pedroia - .363
Cano - .345

By UZR/150
Pedroia - 6.8
Cano - -4.7

By WAR
Pedroia - 13.1
Cano - 11.7

When factoring in baserunning, Pedroia has been significantly better offensively and, based on UZR, he's much better in the field, as well. Throw in the fact that he has a World Series ring, a Rookie of the Year award, and an MVP, and he's on a much better pace than Cano.

Of all those stats/accomplishments listed, HoF voters likely only look at [1] ROY, [2] MVP, [3] WS.

Sad, but probably true.

Cano is also viewed (by media) as lazy/lakidasical(sp?); Pedroia is viewed as "the little engine that could".

[willshad]

[(although Chase Utley certainly has a case).


'Has a case'????????? Utley is much, much better than Pedroia. I cannot even see making a case that they are even on the same level as players. The only thing Pedrioa has going for him is that he is 5 years younger, and has accomplished more at that age than Utley did.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Utley is much, much better than Pedroia. I cannot even see making a case that they are even on the same level as players. The only thing Pedrioa has going for him is that he is 5 years younger, and has accomplished more at that age than Utley did.

Utley is the better player now, but it's questionable as to how much better. Utley is the better offensive player, and he's certainly having a much better offensive season than is Pedroia. Still, Pedroia is the better defensive player, and by a decent margin, so this narrows the gap.

Utley is underrated, in no small measure, because he is a slugging second baseman, a class of player that has always, for some reason, received short shrift. (Think of all the folks out there that believe that Bill Mazeroski was a better player than Jeff Kent.) Utley is, IMO, truly a superstar, but he never gets mentioned quite as such. Neither does Pedroia, for that matter, but Dustin's the guy with the ROY and MVP.

The thread is, however, about PROGRESS toward the HOF, and Pedroia is not only leaps and bounds ahead of Cano, he's actually no worse than even with Utley. While there's some truth that Pedroia was at the right place at the right time when he won his ROY and MVP awards, the fact is that Utley, Kinsler, et al, won't have these things to show the BBWAA when it's time to be considered for the HOF. That can change, of course, but I'm talking as of now. In addition, Pedroia is 26, whereas Utley is 31. Utley's great, but we've probably seen his best, and his late start does hinder his career totals in HRs a bit. Pedroia has much more potential for growth; it's possible that he will, in the next 2-3 years, post a season that exceeds his MVP campaign in terms of quality, even if he doesn't win another MVP award. Pedroia would not, of course, be a HOFer if he follows up his first 3 MLB seasons with seven more pedestrian campaigns. But very, very few players have done the kinds of things during their first two (2) MLB seasons to project themselves forward as HOF candidates as Dustin Pedroia has done, and most of the position players that have done so ARE in the HOF.

[Domenic]

Still, Pedroia is the better defensive player, and by a decent margin, so this narrows the gap.

By UZR/150 (career)
Utley - 14.6
Pedroia - 6.8

By +/- (2007)
Utley - +22
Pedroia - +2

By +/- (2008)
Utley - +47
Pedroia - +15

Pedroia doesn't appear to be a better defensive player - at least in terms of the defensive metrics that I've been sorting through. Pedroia has been a bit better this season, but Utley struggled out of the gate coming off of surgery, and has significantly improved as the season wore on.

[willshad]

By UZR/150 (career)
Utley - 14.6
Pedroia - 6.8

By +/- (2007)
Utley - +22
Pedroia - +2

By +/- (2008)
Utley - +47
Pedroia - +15

Pedroia doesn't appear to be a better defensive player - at least in terms of the defensive metrics that I've been sorting through. Pedroia has been a bit better this season, but Utley struggled out of the gate coming off of surgery, and has significantly improved as the season wore on.


They both appear to be top of the line defensively. But even if you call defense a wash, Utley is worlds better offensively. His lifetime OPS+ is 138, and Pedroia's is 111. Last year Dustin was really good, but not a typical 'mvp level' season (Utley has surpassed his 2008 122 OPS+ easily in each of the last 5 seasons) . He's also taken a step back this season, and is really having a pretty average season. To me he looks like a poor man's Roberto Alomar...I really don't think anyone would talk about him at all if he played somewhere besides Fenway.

[538280]

Utley is the better player now, but it's questionable as to how much better. Utley is the better offensive player, and he's certainly having a much better offensive season than is Pedroia. Still, Pedroia is the better defensive player, and by a decent margin, so this narrows the gap.

I watch Pedroia all the time and he's not a great defensive 2B. He's more like a good one. He's not that quick and athletic but he's very smart and turns the DP well. He's solid above average IMO. I had always thought of Utley the same way until on here a while ago I was shown defensive metrics that had him as a great defensive 2B. I would say subjectively I would call them equal but defensive metrics generally have Utley higher than Pedroia. I don't think there's any basis for saying Pedroia is clearly a better defensive player. And offensively it's just no contest at all. The biggest difference there could be between them is maybe Pedroia could be an A- 2B and Utley a B (not supported by any evidence I know of, in reality IMO it's more like the other way around) and even that doesn't even come close to making up for the difference between a 147 (Utley) and a 108 (Pedroia) OPS+ which are their numbers so far this year.

Utley is underrated, in no small measure, because he is a slugging second baseman, a class of player that has always, for some reason, received short shrift. (Think of all the folks out there that believe that Bill Mazeroski was a better player than Jeff Kent.) Utley is, IMO, truly a superstar, but he never gets mentioned quite as such. Neither does Pedroia, for that matter, but Dustin's the guy with the ROY and MVP.

The thread is, however, about PROGRESS toward the HOF, and Pedroia is not only leaps and bounds ahead of Cano, he's actually no worse than even with Utley. While there's some truth that Pedroia was at the right place at the right time when he won his ROY and MVP awards, the fact is that Utley, Kinsler, et al, won't have these things to show the BBWAA when it's time to be considered for the HOF. That can change, of course, but I'm talking as of now. In addition, Pedroia is 26, whereas Utley is 31. Utley's great, but we've probably seen his best, and his late start does hinder his career totals in HRs a bit. Pedroia has much more potential for growth; it's possible that he will, in the next 2-3 years, post a season that exceeds his MVP campaign in terms of quality, even if he doesn't win another MVP award. Pedroia would not, of course, be a HOFer if he follows up his first 3 MLB seasons with seven more pedestrian campaigns. But very, very few players have done the kinds of things during their first two (2) MLB seasons to project themselves forward as HOF candidates as Dustin Pedroia has done, and most of the position players that have done so ARE in the HOF.

Utley has been voted in as the starting ASG 2B for the past 4 years. I think he's considered a very big star. I would agree that he's underrated (and I would say Pedroia's overrated) by the media but I think when people objectivly look at their careers for the HOF even the voters will see how much better Utley is, because he has much better even traditional numbers. Pedroia won the 2008 MVP but that was mostly based on the "storyline" that the writers like to use to vote for MVPs. In 10-15 years I think Utley's close to yearly .300/30/100 type lines will look at lot more impressive than Pedroia's 2008 with 17 HRs and 83 RBI. Pedroia is very unlikely to make any progress IMO. I think as a hitter he played very much over his head last year. He's a good player but he doens't have the most impressive talent that is needed to take that next step. Utley has that talent and is already at that "next step" level.

[DoubleX]

Do those of you voting "neither" - are you saying that neither has an advantage, or that neither is on a Hall of Fame pace?

Since I assume it's the former, I am curious to see why you place the two on, at the very least, mostly equal footing. For what it's worth, Pedroia also has a significant advantage in EQA (.302 to .282) as well.

I haven't voted, but I would definitely say at this point in time that neither is on a Hall of Fame pace - it is much to early in both their careers to start making such predictions. Plus, the BBWAA has shown an inability to properly appreciated talented 2Bman. For instance, Lou Whitaker and Bobby Grich were dropped from the ballot altogether despite at least decent, if not good HoF cases. Ryne Sandberg took several years until he finally was elected. Next year Roberto Alomar will join the ballot, and he was an immensely more talented player than either Cano and Pedroia, but it sounds like Alomar could be in for an uphill battle as well.

[Jsquared83]

I haven't voted, but I would definitely say at this point in time that neither is on a Hall of Fame pace - it is much to early in both their careers to start making such predictions. Plus, the BBWAA has shown an inability to properly appreciated talented 2Bman. For instance, Lou Whitaker and Bobby Grich were dropped from the ballot altogether despite at least decent, if not good HoF cases. Ryne Sandberg took several years until he finally was elected. Next year Roberto Alomar will join the ballot, and he was an immensely more talented player than either Cano and Pedroia, but it sounds like Alomar could be in for an uphill battle as well.

Alomar's inability to keep saliva in his mouth while on the diamond will be in the back (or front) of voters' minds. Nevertheless, still a first ballot talent.

[STLCards2]

Alomar's inability to keep saliva in his mouth while on the diamond will be in the back (or front) of voters' minds. Nevertheless, still a first ballot talent.

If voters forgive Marichal for trying to crack Roseboro's head open with a baseball bat, they will forgive Alomar spitting at an ump. The only way Alomar doesn't get elected is some sort of PED association.

[Jsquared83]

If voters forgive Marichal for trying to crack Roseboro's head open with a baseball bat, they will forgive Alomar spitting at an ump. The only way Alomar doesn't get elected is some sort of PED association.

Oh they will, but Alomar's penalty might be no first ballot induction which would be silly but I don't put anything past the writers.

[Jsquared83]

Has anyone noticed how Cano is scalding the ball this month? Raised the average to .316 with 17 HR, 58 RBI, 122 OPS+ coming into today (just smacked another HR as I type this). Having a better year than Pedroia so far. Keeping up this pace might net Cano some top 10 MVP votes this yr.

[DoubleX]

Has anyone noticed how Cano is scalding the ball this month? Raised the average to .316 with 17 HR, 58 RBI, 122 OPS+ coming into today (just smacked another HR as I type this). Having a better year than Pedroia so far. Keeping up this pace might net Cano some top 10 MVP votes this yr.

Having watched most every game of Cano's career, he is a very streaky hitter. He can go weeks, particularly in the second half, where he looks unstoppable, but will also have weeks where his approach is terrible and makes a ton of quick outs.

The thing about Cano is that he has no problem putting bat on ball - he can hit, but his plate discipline and pitch recognition are not great and haven't improved much during his career. I get the feeling he goes up to the plate and just reacts, which is fine enough as he has the bat control to do that, but the to get to the next level I think he needs to have more of a plan, give more thought to his approach, what to look for, and to take some pitches.

Defensively he appears to have upped his game this year as his range is surprisingly very good and his arm is really second to none at 2B. Based on right now, I would say he is a better overall player than Pedroia.

[Jsquared83]

Having watched most every game of Cano's career, he is a very streaky hitter. He can go weeks, particularly in the second half, where he looks unstoppable, but will also have weeks where his approach is terrible and makes a ton of quick outs.

The thing about Cano is that he has no problem putting bat on ball - he can hit, but his plate discipline and pitch recognition are not great and haven't improved much during his career. I get the feeling he goes up to the plate and just reacts, which is fine enough as he has the bat control to do that, but the to get to the next level I think he needs to have more of a plan, give more thought to his approach, what to look for, and to take some pitches.

Defensively he appears to have upped his game this year as his range is surprisingly very good and his arm is really second to none at 2B. Based on right now, I would say he is a better overall player than Pedroia.

Agreed. I'm a huge yankee fan myself and I watch at least 4-5 games a week. Last year was def not the norm from him. Right now he's a .300/20/80 guy. He can be a .320/25/100 guy with a little more maturity which I think he will develop, starting this year. As far as defensively, his range is good and has one of the smoothest at turning the DP that I've ever seen from 2B.

[Jsquared83]

Don't look now but Cano is currently 4th in the AL in Total bases behind Hill, Teixeira and Morneau. I know he's having a good year but that's especially impressive.

[White Knight]

Those who voted in this poll may have voted too soon. It needs to be revisited with Cano's fine finish, as he is easily having the better year now.

[White Knight]

Right now he's a .300/20/80 guy. He can be a .320/25/100 guy with a little more maturity which I think he will develop, starting this year.

Looks like your wish came true. :)

[Captain Cold Nose]

Those who voted in this poll may have voted too soon. It needs to be revisited with Cano's fine finish, as he is easily having the better year now.

2009 fine finish vs. 2008 MVP.

Still in Pedroia's favor.

[White Knight]

2009 fine finish vs. 2008 MVP.

Still in Pedroia's favor.

I thought we were talking about the 2009 season.

[Domenic]

Those who voted in this poll may have voted too soon. It needs to be revisited with Cano's fine finish, as he is easily having the better year now.

I'm not so sure that I would say 'easily.'

Cano does have the edge offensively, but I wouldn't say that that advantage is terribly large. Cano has more pop, but Pedroia is getting on-base at a better clip and is a fine base-runner. EQA and wOBA, which consider these aspects of offense, see Cano's advantage as such, smaller than something like OPS+.

Defensively, Pedroia has the edge. Plus/minus and UZR have Pedroia with a sizable advantage, and FRAR has the two as virtually equal (35 to 34 in favor of Pedroia).

While I don't think that these factors combined make Pedroia better in 2009, I do think that it's enough to leave Cano comfortably behind Pedroia on the whole, for the time being.

Don't forget - we're discussing prospective Hall of Fame chances. The fact that Pedroia has his fair share of hardware (MVP, RotY, WS ring) is not insignificant, either.

[Jsquared83]

I'm not so sure that I would say 'easily.'

Cano does have the edge offensively, but I wouldn't say that that advantage is terribly large. Cano has more pop, but Pedroia is getting on-base at a better clip and is a fine base-runner. EQA and wOBA, which consider these aspects of offense, see Cano's advantage as such, smaller than something like OPS+.

Defensively, Pedroia has the edge. Plus/minus and UZR have Pedroia with a sizable advantage, and FRAR has the two as virtually equal (35 to 34 in favor of Pedroia).

While I don't think that these factors combined make Pedroia better in 2009, I do think that it's enough to leave Cano comfortably behind Pedroia on the whole, for the time being.

Don't forget - we're discussing prospective Hall of Fame chances. The fact that Pedroia has his fair share of hardware (MVP, RotY, WS ring) is not insignificant, either.

Pedroia has the hardware, yes but he's only in his 3rd year and displaying a sizable decline in offensive production as Cano is in his 5th year and having his finest one yet, both offensively and defensively.

[Cougar]

Pedroia has the hardware, yes but he's only in his 3rd year and displaying a sizable decline in offensive production as Cano is in his 5th year and having his finest one yet, both offensively and defensively.

I don't know about sizable.

Pedroia's season last year probably represents the maximum output his talent will allow. Given it was MVP-level, that's not bad.

Some regression to the mean was almost inevitable.

Pedroia is still having a fine offensive season...not as good as last season, nor as good as Cano's 2009, but well above average for his position.

And we're not even mentioning defense.

[Cougar]

How good are the second basemen in the AL East?

Through today (via B-R.com)

Cano: .321/23/77, 46 doubles

Pedroia: .298/13/64; 45 doubles, 19 sb, reigning GG

Zobrist: .287/24/77; .400 OBP, 16 sb, played all positions but P, C, and 1b.

A. Hill: .286/33/100; 33 doubles

B. Roberts: .287/15/76; 55 doubles(!), 27 sb

[yankillaz]

Pedroia by far. Anyway, the discussion is interesting and reminds me of a Bobby Doerr - Joe Gordon battle.

[ol' aches and pains]

Pedroia is only in his third full season, so I'm not ready to induct him into the HOF just yet, but I would take him over Cano. Pedroia reminds me a lot of Nellie Fox, but with more power.

[runningshoes]

With a ROY, MVP and a Ring, Cano's going to have to be very special over the next couple years. I don't think Pedroia's production is going to drop below what it is this year. Pedroia is the real deal..IMO.

[White Knight]

With a ROY, MVP and a Ring, Cano's going to have to be very special over the next couple years. I don't think Pedroia's production is going to drop below what it is this year. Pedroia is the real deal..IMO.

I'll give you MVP, but didn't Cano finish second to ROY? Cano also could very well have a WS ring soon as well.

We all need to come back here in 5 or 10 years and see what their production is. Too early now, but for what it's worth, I see Cano having a better 2010-2020 than Pedroia. Assuming both stay in shape and don't get hurt, they should last at least that long.

[Domenic]

Pedroia has the hardware, yes but he's only in his 3rd year and displaying a sizable decline in offensive production as Cano is in his 5th year and having his finest one yet, both offensively and defensively.

The question is "who is on a better Hall of Fame pace?"

Pedroia has an MVP, a RoY, a SS, a GG, and two All-Star appearances. Cano has an All-Star appearance and a SS. Pedroia's HoF Monitor is 57, Cano's is 26.

Pedroia's triple-slash line (.308/.370/.454) is better than Cano's (.306/.338/.478). Pedroia's wOBA (.364) is better than Cano's (.348). Pedroia's UZR/150 (7.7) is better than Cano's (-5.4).

Pedroia has been worth more WAR than Cano - 15.0 to 12.6.

Pedroia has had the better career, thus far.

I'll give you MVP, but didn't Cano finish second to ROY? Cano also could very well have a WS ring soon as well.

In evaluating a potential Hall of Famer, I believe winning the RoY is much more important than finishing second in the balloting. Further, Pedroia has as good a chance of winning another WS ring as Cano has of winning his first.

We all need to come back here in 5 or 10 years and see what their production is. Too early now, but for what it's worth, I see Cano having a better 2010-2020 than Pedroia. Assuming both stay in shape and don't get hurt, they should last at least that long.

What makes you think that Cano will be better over that period of time?

Pedroia has had the better career to-date and, based on Cano's penchant for inconsistency, I'm not quite ready to say that he'll be able to maintain this season's level of production into the future.

[brett]

I think that a second baseman who breaks in by age 22 and has a 110 OPS+ through age 25 has begun on a hall of fame pace.

To me, Whitaker is a hall of famer and he played 2400 games with a 116 OPS+. Through age 25 he had a 98 OPS+ but that included one real bad year and he had a 123 OPS+ after age 25 in over 1700 games.

A lot of second sackers start out fielding, and as pretty poor hitters, and then develop as hitters after age 25. A 110 OPS+ through age 25 for a second baseman is pretty darn good, but these guys need to take one more step up as hitters from 26-33 Y. O.

[Seels]

Those who voted in this poll may have voted too soon. It needs to be revisited with Cano's fine finish, as he is easily having the better year now.

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=2b&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=y&type=6&season=2009&month=0

Cano has a small wOBA advantage, .369 - .359, but Pedroia is easily the better defender. WAR has Pedroia with a pretty good lead, 5.1-3.8.

[White Knight]

In evaluating a potential Hall of Famer, I believe winning the RoY is much more important than finishing second in the balloting. Further, Pedroia has as good a chance of winning another WS ring as Cano has of winning his first.

What makes you think that Cano will be better over that period of time?


Completely disagree. Suppose a rookie in 2002 hits .320/..401/28HR, but comes in second to RoY because some rookie hit .330/.420/41HR. Then suppose in 2004 some rookie hits .302/.380/15HR and wins RoY because no one was competition that year. Is the second player really better than the first?

As for Cano being better, it's all speculation at this point, but I see Cano growing into a superstar.

[Domenic]

I would go so far as to say that the members of the BBWAA rarely consider the merits of each individual award, within the context of the year. If a player won the award, seeing as how many of those same members voted on the award, then that is all that matters to them. I could be a bit pessimistic here, but the voting record of the BBWAA leaves a great deal to be desired.

Regardless, Pedroia's rookie season was better than Cano's.

Pedroia - .317/.380/.442, 112 OPS+, 3.8 WAR, 19 Win Shares
Cano - .297/.320/.458, 106 OPS+, 0.1 WAR, 12 Win Shares

[nyykan_t]

Regardless, Pedroia's rookie season was better than Cano's.

Pedroia - .317/.380/.442, 112 OPS+, 3.8 WAR, 19 Win Shares
Cano - .297/.320/.458, 106 OPS+, 0.1 WAR, 12 Win Shares

Debatable.

Pedroia 4.2 WARP1
Cano 4.8 WARP1

[Joltin' Joe]

No question Cano. He is a better fielder, and a better hitter. Pedroia is nothing outside of Fenway Park where he pads his stat with the cheap doubles that would be pop flys in any other park.

His MVP award was a joke. :rofl:

[DoubleX]

No question Cano. He is a better fielder, and a better hitter. Pedroia is nothing outside of Fenway Park where he pads his stat with the cheap doubles that would be pop flys in any other park.

His MVP award was a joke. :rofl:

Pedroia was a weak MVP choice, but it was a pretty weak field that year as well, where Pedroia was about as good as most any other candidate.

His home/away splits, are striking and so far look like yet another example of the historic Fenway boost.

Home OPS: .885
Away OPS: .736

To be fair, Cano's home parks favor left handed hitters, especially for power, but he's actually been slightly better away from Yankee Stadium(s):

Home OPS: .813
Away OPS: .823

Anyway, this whole conversation is extremely premature, IMO. Combined, the two players have barely 5,000 career plate appearances.

[SABR Matt]

Neither Pedroia nor Cano has any business being discussed as potential HOFers. Call me in ten years and I'll talk then.

[AstrosFan]

Being an NL guy, I don't see much of either Pedroia or Cano, so I can't give any observational accounts of their defense. I'd just compare them by the numbers. Assuming that the question is not arguing that either will end up in the Hall, my instinct is to take Pedroia.

[Domenic]

No question Cano. He is a better fielder

UZR, TZ, RZR, OOZ, Win Shares, and +/- view Pedroia as the better fielder. FRAR/FRAA are the only metrics that have Cano at an advantage, and his lead is very slim therein.

[Joltin' Joe]

UZR, TZ, RZR, OOZ, Win Shares, and +/- view Pedroia as the better fielder. FRAR/FRAA are the only metrics that have Cano at an advantage, and his lead is very slim therein.

It's really hard to trust any fielding stats isn't it. I really take each and every single one with a grain of salt. I used to have more faith in FRAA but with all the constant revision BP makes these days, I have lost some faith in their stats. I suppose the big advantage of FRAA over the others is comparing two players from different eras, which obviously isn't the case here.

I see both of them a lot being an AL(NYY) fan in the Northeast. I do feel that IMHO(IMBO?) Cano is the better fielder, strictly from just observing. :)

[Paul Wendt]

I suppose the big advantage of FRAA over the others is comparing two players from different eras, which obviously isn't the case here.
Why?
If you don't trust it for valid comparisons within league (WARP1),
you shouldn't expect anything valid "comparing two players from different eras"!

[nyykan_t]

UZR, TZ, RZR, OOZ, Win Shares, and +/- view Pedroia as the better fielder. FRAR/FRAA are the only metrics that have Cano at an advantage, and his lead is very slim therein.
Are those states include the ability of turning double play? As Cano is one of the best in the league.

By the way, I vote Pedroia. I like Cano and think that he is the better hitter. However, we are comparing their HOF chance at this time. So far Pedroia got all the "hardware".

Both of them have the ability to make the Hall but it's still too early to say. Hopefully they can make it.

[White Knight]

Grand slam for Cano last night!

[Seels]

Are those states include the ability of turning double play? As Cano is one of the best in the league.

By the way, I vote Pedroia. I like Cano and think that he is the better hitter. However, we are comparing their HOF chance at this time. So far Pedroia got all the "hardware".

Both of them have the ability to make the Hall but it's still too early to say. Hopefully they can make it.

I would love to know how you justify a comment like that

[nyykan_t]

I would love to know how you justify a comment like that
Watching them actually play the games?