Phils turn attention to Cliff Lee

[F1ghtinPhils]

Phils, Indians in discussions for Lee — 11:58 a.m.

The Phillies are in discussions with the Indians to obtain left-hander Cliff Lee and possibly another player for Class A right-hander Jason Knapp, Class AAA right-hander Carlos Carrasco, shortstop Jason Donald and catcher Lou Marson, according to a major-league source.

The Phillies scratched Class AAA right-hander Carlos Carrasco from his scheduled start on Wednesday, a strong indication that he is about to be traded.

[Ace Venom]

Looks like it happened:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9866900/Sources:-Phils-reach-agreement-for-Indians%27-Lee

[Buntforahit]

Looks like it happened:

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/9866900/Sources:-Phils-reach-agreement-for-Indians%27-Lee

Yeah, I heard it's a done deal! EXCELLENT!!! Good job, Ruben!

[PhanInPhlorida]

I tip my cap to Ruben on getting this done. No doubt this was his first taste of big pressure at the trade deadline. He passed admirably in my opinion.

[F1ghtinPhils]

Yeah, I think this is a great deal. We still have Happ and Drabek and Lee's salary is half of Halladays. Plus we got a nice right handed bat off the bench.

[jalbright]

Yeah, unless Donald was going to make it as their 3B and Marson as their catcher next year, it's worth it.

[luvJRoll]

The more I thought about this trade the more I liked it. I mean Halladay is a much better pitcher than Lee is, I'm not even going to enter into that debate. But Lee did win 22 games last year, and won the Cy Young. With the kind of run support he'll get in Philly he can't help but win games for us. Not to mention we keep Happ and Drabek and it cost's us half of what Halladay would have. This, in my opinion, was a brilliant move on Ruben's part. We get a legitimate number two for our rotation, don't mortgage the future, or break the bank, and it gives us a ton of options for the pitching staff as a whole. Charlie must be absolutely in glee right now. Way to go Ruben!!

[Buntforahit]

The more I thought about this trade the more I liked it. I mean Halladay is a much better pitcher than Lee is, I'm not even going to enter into that debate. But Lee did win 22 games last year, and won the Cy Young. With the kind of run support he'll get in Philly he can't help but win games for us. Not to mention we keep Happ and Drabek and it cost's us half of what Halladay would have. This, in my opinion, was a brilliant move on Ruben's part. We get a legitimate number two for our rotation, don't mortgage the future, or break the bank, and it gives us a ton of options for the pitching staff as a whole. Charlie must be absolutely in glee right now. Way to go Ruben!!

Lee may be the number one on our staff, I need to see more from Cole Hamels.

[philliesfiend55]

The Phillies went for the short term success at the risk of giving away players who may become stars in the future. I think the Indians asking price was pretty high. We gave away three Players who were at AAA Lehigh Valley and who were very close to major leagues-ready (INF- Jason Donald, P- Carlos Carrasco & C- Lou Marson. Marson is the only one of the three to briefly appear in the big leagues. The fourth, Jason Knapp is just 19 but throws a lot of heat (94-97 mph fast ball). If he ever learns to harness it, he'll be dangerous.

[jalbright]

The biggest downside is that unless Happ or Moyer leaves the rotation, it's four lefties. That's not ideal, but it can probably be dealt with.

[luvJRoll]

Another good article by David Murphy regarding this trade, the players we gave up, the potential rotation, roster moves and payroll implications.

http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/phillies/Breaking_down_the_Lee_deal.html

[PhanInPhlorida]

Yeah, unless Donald was going to make it as their 3B and Marson as their catcher next year, it's worth it.

the catcher and third base positions are not something that needs to be a priority with the other pieces in place at other positions. certainly not something that would hinder an improvement at the top of the rotation for the rest of this year and next year.
especially when Donald only has three career games at 3rd base.

[PhanInPhlorida]

The biggest downside is that unless Happ or Moyer leaves the rotation, it's four lefties. That's not ideal, but it can probably be dealt with.

It doesn't look like Happ is going to go anywhere with his solid performance thus far. Moyer has heated up lately, but I think his disposition and experience put him up for the odd man out. He will handle it best, and he will definitely be professional about the whole thing so if the Phillies need a spot start from him, he will step up. None of this will be needed unless Pedro really steps it up and pitches his way into the rotation. But this is a great problem for the Phillies to deal with, depth in the rotation.

[F1ghtinPhils]

But this is a great problem for the Phillies to deal with, depth in the rotation.

Too many solid starting pitchers to fit in the rotation. I am trying to remember the last time we were faced with such a horrific dilemma.

[luvJRoll]

Too many solid starting pitchers to fit in the rotation. I am trying to remember the last time we were faced with such a horrific dilemma.

I agree. It must be a whole lot easier being Jerry Manuel right now :D

[kjc15600]

I would assume for now our rotation would be Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Moyer and Happ.

When Pedro is ready to start, Happ back to the bullpen? That is when things get interesting.

[Buntforahit]

I would assume for now our rotation would be Hamels, Lee, Blanton, Moyer and Happ.

When Pedro is ready to start, Happ back to the bullpen? That is when things get interesting.

How could they possibly send Happ back to the bullpen and keep Moyer?

[jalbright]

the catcher and third base positions are not something that needs to be a priority with the other pieces in place at other positions. certainly not something that would hinder an improvement at the top of the rotation for the rest of this year and next year.
especially when Donald only has three career games at 3rd base.

If Marson was good enough to push Ruiz off the starting catcher job and if Donald was good enough to take the job from Feliz (rather than pay him $5M next year), you'd be putting two younger guys on the team, solidifying those spots for years while improving the lineup, and saving money you could use elsewhere. If both those things would happen, then the trade for Lee was quite expensive. I think the Phils didn't believe both would happen, which makes the deal worthwhile. I don't have any great reason to believe both would happen, but if the Phils miscalculated there, they could have seriously overpaid for Lee, and tilted awfully heavily toward lefty starters to boot. In sum, if one assumes the Phils properly evaluated what they gave up, it's a good deal. If they underestimated it, they might regret it someday (remember Bowa and the throw-in Sandberg for DeJesus, anyone?). It's a standard caution when you give up young talent.

OTOH, if Lee helps them win another Series in the next two years and they haven't paid with at least two star players, it won't feel too bad.

[philliesfiend55]

The price for Lee was very steep (four prospects all rated in the top 10 prospects of the Phillies orgainization by Baseball America, with catcher Lou Marson having some major league experience). If three of the four prospects that the Phillies packaged for Lee turn out to be solid major leaguers, then Cleveland will be the eventual winner in this deal. It may someday be regarded as a deal that helped both clubs.

[tbng]

Baseball Fever used to be filled with comments trashing Charlie Manuel. They seem to have vanished. Wonder why? Then, we heard what fools the Phillies' management were for hiring the inexperienced and incompetent Reuben Amaro. Now that he's traded for Lee, suddenly he's a genius. Amazing how success forces the whiners back into their holes, which is where they belong all the time. They should go to the Pirates board. Then they would have something legitimate to whine about.

Now that the Phillies have a pitcher named Lee on the squad, shouldn't they start looking for a catcher named Grant?

[Judway]

I CHARGE you with trying to PICKET a fight. Or are you just STONEWALLING?

[PhanInPhlorida]

The price for Lee was very steep (four prospects all rated in the top 10 prospects of the Phillies orgainization by Baseball America, with catcher Lou Marson having some major league experience). If three of the four prospects that the Phillies packaged for Lee turn out to be solid major leaguers, then Cleveland will be the eventual winner in this deal. It may someday be regarded as a deal that helped both clubs.

The Phillies were asked to give up a lot more than what they gave up. Ruben certainly didn't sell the farm but he did make a move to put the Phillies in contention for the World Series the next two years.

[TonyStarks]

Lee sporting the new duds....