View Full Version : St. Paul and Montreal
VIBaseball
07-21-2009, 03:19 PM
I came to wonder just now about how and why the Dodgers had two Triple-A teams during their glory years: the St. Paul Saints and the Montreal Royals.
The depth of their farm system was undoubtedly a reason for the big club's success, but it also meant that a lot of pretty good major-leaguers found their way blocked.
A little trivia note that sparked this thread: Twins star Joe Mauer's uncle Ken played for St. Paul in 1944 and 1945.
penncentralpete
07-21-2009, 03:34 PM
I came to wonder just now about how and why the Dodgers had two Triple-A teams during their glory years: the St. Paul Saints and the Montreal Royals.
The depth of their farm system was undoubtedly a reason for the big club's success, but it also meant that a lot of pretty good major-leaguers found their way blocked.
A little trivia note that sparked this thread: Twins star Joe Mauer's uncle Ken played for St. Paul in 1944 and 1945.
The Dodgers also had 2 Double-A teams back then: Ft. Worth and Mobile. They owned the former and had a working agreement with the latter.
pgsuperfan
07-21-2009, 05:17 PM
The Dodgers also had 2 Double-A teams back then: Ft. Worth and Mobile. They owned the former and had a working agreement with the latter.
Pete back in the day it was not uncommon for teams to have several minor league teams. In 1956 the DODGERS had AAA teams in Portland and Montreal, in 57 they bought the LA ANGELS from the CUBS and the CUBS relocated their players to Portland.
VIBaseball
07-21-2009, 07:26 PM
Originally I expect the deep farm was something that came from Branch Rickey. I'd like to know more about the club ownership, though.
theAmazingMet
07-21-2009, 08:20 PM
Originally I expect the deep farm was something that came from Branch Rickey. I'd like to know more about the club ownership, though.
The Dodgers weren't the only team to do this, the Cardinals for one had a huge farm system as well.
penncentralpete
07-21-2009, 08:31 PM
Duke Snider played at Ft. Worth, St. Paul, and Montreal in '46, '47, and '48.
tonypug
07-21-2009, 08:34 PM
Actually from 1956-1960, the Dodgers had 3 AAA teams.
tonypug
07-21-2009, 08:40 PM
http://www.acmewebpages.com/dodgers/farmpast.htm this link will show Dodger farm teams year by year .
penncentralpete
07-21-2009, 08:44 PM
Actually from 1956-1960, the Dodgers had 3 AAA teams.
They also had 3 from '48-'50.
tonypug
07-21-2009, 08:44 PM
The number of farm teams the Dodgers had shows how many players they had under their control. In those days there was no draft, teams could sign any player they wanted.
VIBaseball
07-22-2009, 06:03 AM
The Dodgers weren't the only team to do this, the Cardinals for one had a huge farm system as well.
Rickey took his approach with him from St. Louis. To some degree he implemented it at Pittsburgh too when he went there, though it wasn't so much the number of farm teams as the emphasis on scouting (especially overseas).
tonypug
07-22-2009, 06:08 AM
Rickey took his approach with him from St. Louis. To some degree he implemented it at Pittsburgh too when he went there, though it wasn't so much the number of farm teams as the emphasis on scouting (especially overseas).Although not often mentioned Rickey was responsible for the most part in putting the 1960 Pirates championship team together.
VIBaseball
07-22-2009, 11:27 AM
According to this passage from the book Swinging for the Fences, Rickey bought the St. Paul club in the offseason between 1947 and 1948, with an eye toward integrating the American Association:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Sxmqc5KkhykC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=%22Brooklyn+Dodgers%22+%22St.+Paul%22&source=bl&ots=QDGOB-d8Dg&sig=P-TerRS2Cyl2M05ht3cuaQM1VO8&hl=en&ei=WEtnSuyTMc6Otgfug9XzDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6
Roy Campanella spearheaded this effort.
VIBaseball
07-22-2009, 11:34 AM
Brooklyn's association with Montreal began in 1939 -- predating the arrival of Rickey -- and continued through 1960.
This article describes the expansion of the Dodgers farm system as of 1939...which leads me to believe that Larry McPhail also shared the view that this would help the franchise.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=7rEKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=UE0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=2903,2028316&dq=brooklyn-dodgers+montreal
penncentralpete
07-22-2009, 12:10 PM
According to this passage from the book Swinging for the Fences, Rickey bought the St. Paul club in the offseason between 1947 and 1948, with an eye toward integrating the American Association:
http://books.google.com/books?id=Sxmqc5KkhykC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=%22Brooklyn+Dodgers%22+%22St.+Paul%22&source=bl&ots=QDGOB-d8Dg&sig=P-TerRS2Cyl2M05ht3cuaQM1VO8&hl=en&ei=WEtnSuyTMc6Otgfug9XzDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6
Roy Campanella spearheaded this effort.
Here's Campy running out a HR as a St. Paul Saint, being congratulated by Walter Alston.
penncentralpete
07-22-2009, 12:14 PM
The same two guys, a few years later (in Milwaukee).
tonypug
07-24-2009, 10:44 AM
Campy often bemoaned the fact that he wasn't the first black in the majors, but Rickey put him in St. Paul with the express purpose of integrating the American Association.
VIBaseball
07-24-2009, 03:33 PM
I've asked the guys at SABR Québec how Montreal got hooked up with Brooklyn and if MacPhail was responsible. I couldn't establish anything from a news search beyond that the deal was done in December 1938. Let's see what they can tell me.
tonypug
07-24-2009, 03:52 PM
The date is right for it to have been MacPhails doing.