other coaches trying to get my players

[hustle or go home]

I coach a 10u travel ball team and we are just starting this yr. I had tryouts and am beginning to start practices, which is going well. I have been told that other coaches from 2 established teams have approached players on my roster to come and play for them.
#1) does this happen everywhere?
#2)what are your opinions on this?(I consider it to be pretty unsportsmanlike)
#3)is this to be expected since this is travel ball and all is fair in love & war?

Thanks for your input.

[Jake Patterson]

I coach a 10u travel ball team and we are just starting this yr. I had tryouts and am beginning to start practices, which is going well. I have been told that other coaches from 2 established teams have approached players on my roster to come and play for them.
#1) does this happen everywhere?
#2)what are your opinions on this?(I consider it to be pretty unsportsmanlike)
#3)is this to be expected since this is travel ball and all is fair in love & war?

Thanks for your input.

It happens everywhere with TB and is another reason why TB sometimes hurts the game more than helps it.

I think it stinks and there is probably little you can do. If the kids are learning and having fun they'll probably stay on their own accord... If you don't win some parents will look to place their child elsewhere.

[dolphindan1]

I am dealing with it now...in 12u travel...a player that came mid season...well his dad was very unhappy that I pulled his son off the mound in a game...come to find out the kid was cut by 4 teams this spring because of his dad..well he really let me have but not to me but all the parents some of whom are only letting there child play because I was coaching...so needless to say they told and I confronted him and told him one more word and his son would be removed because of him...sad too cause his son was a good kid and a good ball player...anyway he left and is taking over a new team in the fall...he took 2 other of my players with him one dad he is saying can help him coach...funny thing is its the 2 that didnt play as much and the parents are unhappy...one of those parents even cussed me out and pulled her son before the last tournament...the other 8 parents are returning....I have considered not coaching because of those 3 parents but the other 8 are begging me to stay...still undecided

I agree if the kids are happy, the parents are usually happy...BUT you are not gonna be able to please everyone...I coach for a big organization and have parents calling everyday for there kids to play...so they are not hurting me but you have to have thick skin...which I am learning how to get...

to those other 2 parents...even the mom that cussed me out...I politely told them that I wish there kid all the best and that they will always have a spot on my team if they were unhappy with the new team and were welcome back no questions asked...I told them I dont coach for the parents but for the kids...

[dolphindan1]

I coach a 10u travel ball team and we are just starting this yr. I had tryouts and am beginning to start practices, which is going well. I have been told that other coaches from 2 established teams have approached players on my roster to come and play for them.
#1) does this happen everywhere?
#2)what are your opinions on this?(I consider it to be pretty unsportsmanlike)
#3)is this to be expected since this is travel ball and all is fair in love & war?

Thanks for your input.

#1....it does happen everywhere
#2....I dont really like it and I dont do it but its fine I guess
#3....yes its to be expected and yes all is fair in love and war

just make it fun and teach the kids and you will not have to worry too much...you will always have turnover for whatever reason...Money, travel, playing time, losing...so its to be expected...

I found the best thing and it took me a season to learn this is too...have a parent meeting day 1...lay it on the line what is expected...then parents really cant say much...My favorite line is I am the coach and my decision is final and not open for discussion...I also tell them that I will make mistakes as will your children...and we will both learn from it...

[Ursa Major]

I think you have to be careful in avoiding the feeling that kids you've coached in the past are somehow your 'property' and that anyone who approaches them to move to another team is 'poaching'. Kids and parents should be allowed a full range of play options, and -- all other things being equal -- the more information a kid gets about his or her options, the better for him.

What's wrong with a coach starting up a team and telling those kids he knows and likes, "Hey, I'd love to have you on my squad if you'd like to come over"??? Maybe he wants to play a position that your team is already loaded at? Or maybe he knows your players are better and he'd rather go to a team that may be weaker but at least will give him more playing time? Or maybe he tells kids he'll get 'em into 10 tournaments a summer, whereas the last manager has been sitting on his arse and only manages to get his team into four tourneys. Or maybe you've got a few really good players but are signing up for lower level tournaments so you can get a few trophies, and the stronger players want to play in more competitive tournaments. If you're doing a good job, you'll do okay with keeping most good kids.

Just another way to look at it . . .

[Ursa Major]

DolphinDan said: I found the best thing and it took me a season to learn this is too...have a parent meeting day 1...lay it on the line what is expected...then parents really cant say much...My favorite line is I am the coach and my decision is final and not open for discussion...I also tell them that I will make mistakes as will your children...and we will both learn from it...Well, I wouldn't want my kid on your team as soon as I heard the line highlighted above. Sure, some issues (such as the batting order, as that's a 'zero sum' game) are generally not subject to debate, but not allowing some discussion at all? How about -- "my kid's arm is sore and I'd appreciate your not pitching him this week"? Or, "I'm a longtime poster on Baseball Fever and I notice that your teaching linear hitting techniques and would like to discuss some areas of improvement"?

Perhaps a better approach would be ... "I'm happy to have brief and civil conversations with parents about player assignment decisions -- and I mean brief, as I'm a volunteer here who also has to try to shoehorn into my time the necessity of making a living, so I can't have 45 minute conversations three times a week with every parent. But, after you've presented your thoughts and I make decisions that usually will take your thoughts into consideration, I expect you to respect those decisions."

[dolphindan1]

Well, I wouldn't want my kid on your team as soon as I heard the line highlighted above. Sure, some issues (such as the batting order, as that's a 'zero sum' game) are generally not subject to debate, but not allowing some discussion at all? How about -- "my kid's arm is sore and I'd appreciate your not pitching him this week"? Or, "I'm a longtime poster on Baseball Fever and I notice that your teaching linear hitting techniques and would like to discuss some areas of improvement"?

Perhaps a better approach would be ... "I'm happy to have brief and civil conversations with parents about player assignment decisions -- and I mean brief, as I'm a volunteer here who also has to try to shoehorn into my time the necessity of making a living, so I can't have 45 minute conversations three times a week with every parent. But, after you've presented your thoughts and I make decisions that usually will take your thoughts into consideration, I expect you to respect those decisions."

I agree with you to a point...but no.. player assignments should not be discussed with a coach...if a player is hurt sure or feeling bad by all means talk to me...I took that as understood...I guess not...as far as game time decision and lineups and playing time...I dont want to hear it and will not discuss it...The reason why is because I had parents coming on the field during game warmups, and during game asking where there kid was playing, where they were in the order...etc etc...so thats why...

My son has played for teams and I have not agreed with where players are playing but ultimately he is the coach and makes the decisions and I never said a word...If a parent doesnt agree then they should step up and coach....just my opinion...you trust me with your child during practice and games trust to make the best decision during the game....

[virg]

There are coaches I know of who recruit the best with promises, spikes, and gloves just to deprive the competition of talent and bench the player.
Maybe you can counter the recruiters by suggesting that hazard to your player or parent.
BS cuts both ways.

[2zwudz]

Yes this is normal but the best way to handle this is to get a non refundable $200 check from each parent as soon as the player committs to your team. DO NOT LET the parent put this off, this needs to be done as soon as possible. If the player decides to leave to another team he lost $200. If he stays then the $200 is his share of the cost of indoor practices, tournaments, baseballs, etc.. Once the word gets outs that you have locked your team in it will put a stop to this very quickly.

Try it ,it works
Mark

[blackngold29]

I am dealing with it now...in 12u travel...a player that came mid season...well his dad was very unhappy that I pulled his son off the mound in a game...come to find out the kid was cut by 4 teams this spring because of his dad.. I find it odd that four teams cut a player because of his father's actions, being that they're two different people. If the kid isn't good then cut him, if the kid is a jerk then cut him, but if the kid does nothing wrong it's not fair to cut him because his dad is a jerk.

[BigandUgly]

..........

[virg]

Does it really cost $200 to join a team in other parts of the country? Our Fall Ball League is $45 per kid and includes insurance and uniforms. The season is 12 games, plus playoffs, and an "East Side vs. West Side" All-Star Game. Of course we don't have indoor facilities to rent and there are few tournaments in our area. Entrance into tournament would likely be extra.

I know there were kids that we allowed to play without paying the $45 if it was a financial problem. I wonder how many we'd get with $200.

Gonna be running short of yuppies in this economy and maybe play ball for free again.

[wogdoggy]

I find it odd that four teams cut a player because of his father's actions, being that they're two different people. If the kid isn't good then cut him, if the kid is a jerk then cut him, but if the kid does nothing wrong it's not fair to cut him because his dad is a jerk.

its not fair to that KID but it might be better off for your other 10...you get a bad parent and its like having a 'cancer' around you for an entire season..

bottom line is the 11 families are one big family ,,consider the kids talent BUT also consider the entire family...I have seen travel teams try to recruit the BEST kids from all over..1 kid from this school 1 from this one,,BUT quite honestly you can try to STACK a team all you want and STILL never get the trophy..SO find kids and parents that are great..move your kids around a little bit and try to think about the ENTIRE experience NOT just winning..

[2zwudz]

Does it really cost $200 to join a team in other parts of the country? Our Fall Ball League is $45 per kid and includes insurance and uniforms. The season is 12 games, plus playoffs, and an "East Side vs. West Side" All-Star Game. Of course we don't have indoor facilities to rent and there are few tournaments in our area. Entrance into tournament would likely be extra.

I know there were kids that we allowed to play without paying the $45 if it was a financial problem. I wonder how many we'd get with $200.

Bigandugly
This year our 13U team played in a travel/competitve league (14 games)and played in nine tournaments thru the summer. Our league fees were $700 per team and our tournament fees were $325- $450 per team per tournament. Our team insurance was $150, our uniforms were $100 and spent $100 for baseballs. It cost even more for 14U baseball. The two hundred dollars is subtracted from the total cost of everything and then we worked our tale off to get sponsors to help with the remaining cost. Yes it is crazy!!!1
Mark

[2zwudz]

I find it odd that four teams cut a player because of his father's actions, being that they're two different people. If the kid isn't good then cut him, if the kid is a jerk then cut him, but if the kid does nothing wrong it's not fair to cut him because his dad is a jerk.

Blackngold

We see it here all the time. Usually the kid is a good kid and a good player but the dad is a sore in the coaches ass. Usually what happens is the player will end up on a team whoes parents are similar to each other and that coach has to deal with it. Usaully you will see these teams at games and none of the parents sit together or next to each other. The dads usually go off in small groups and bitch and moan to each other, this is where the undermining starts. You get one dad trying to stir the other dads up and it spreads like fire, before you know it there are dads that are mad that were not mad before. This is why a coach gets these dads out of the picture as soon as possible. I know that others may not agree with this but I have seen it too many times not to explain what I see and maybe help someone else with what I have experienced. I hope this helps someone.

Mark

[Ursa Major]

I agree with you to a point...but no.. player assignments should not be discussed with a coach...if a player is hurt sure or feeling bad by all means talk to me...I took that as understood...I guess not...as far as game time decision and lineups and playing time...I dont want to hear it and will not discuss it...The reason why is because I had parents coming on the field during game warmups, and during game asking where there kid was playing, where they were in the order...etc etc...so thats why...

My son has played for teams and I have not agreed with where players are playing but ultimately he is the coach and makes the decisions and I never said a word...If a parent doesnt agree then they should step up and coach....just my opinion...you trust me with your child during practice and games trust to make the best decision during the game....DD, fershure there should be no quibbling about game assignments on game day itself, and if parents are just curious about where they're kid is playing, you can tell them that you'll post the starting lineup on a whiteboard as soon as you know who's actually showing up ... (not that kids will ever no-show even after telling you they will be there).

But I think it's fair for a parent to chat with you near the beginning of the season and ask what positions you envision giving their son a shot at. You can give the parent a fair assessment of the kids strengths and weaknesses, so the kid has a roadmap of what he needs to do to get some time at a different position. So, if the parent says, "I see my son as the next Nolan Ryan" and you know the kid can't find the plate with a GPS and a Sherpa guide, you can say, "He has trouble with his command, but if you want to work with him and get him to the point where he can throw 25 pitches in BP and make at least 12 of them strikes, he'll get a chance to pitch in a game." That helps you and the kid.

As I said, the batting order is different, because (a) someone moves down if someone moves up, which causes a new set of issues, and (b) the parents' interest is almost always just a need for a family ego massage.

As far as me acting as parent when others have been manager (even when I'm an assistant coach), I'm right with you on your second point -- I've made it a point of pride to never ask a manager to place my son at a particular position in the field or batting order. (However, I know exactly where in my catcher's mitt the best sounds come from, and when UMinor wants to do a bullpen after practice and the coach hasn't left yet, I make sure his fastball hits that spot in the mitt just r i g h t. :D ) Even last week at the 4th of July tourney when UMinor was leading the team in BA and on-base percentage and yet, on Sunday, got dropped a spot in the order, my lips were sealed. (And, as it turns out, we then faced a great pitcher and UMinor got our only hit of the game, breaking up the kid's no-hitter with one out in the last inning.)

[Ursa Major]

its not fair to that KID but it might be better off for your other 10...you get a bad parent and its like having a 'cancer' around you for an entire season..

bottom line is the 11 families are one big family ,,consider the kids talent BUT also consider the entire family...I'm with ya on this one, Woggy. It's also not fair that some kids are great athletes and get picked on all the teams, whereas some kids are lousy athletes and don't get invites to play. This kid just drew a similarly bad lot -- a Dad who makes life miserable for the rest of the team and parents.

[CircleChange11]

Bigandugly
This year our 13U team played in a travel/competitve league (14 games)and played in nine tournaments thru the summer. Our league fees were $700 per team and our tournament fees were $325- $450 per team per tournament. Our team insurance was $150, our uniforms were $100 and spent $100 for baseballs. It cost even more for 14U baseball. The two hundred dollars is subtracted from the total cost of everything and then we worked our tale off to get sponsors to help with the remaining cost. Yes it is crazy!!!1
Mark

So, low-income kids that either (or both) are good at baseball or are passionate about it are just screwed. This is one of my main gripes about 'travel ball' (and I have a long list of gripes).

I have seen some organizations offer 'scholarships' to kids whose talent warrants a roster spot, even though the family cannot pay the fee nor the travel expenses (fuel, hotel, etc). That also creates tension with the parents who did pay for their kid to sit the bench behind a kid whose family didn't.

I guess I just don't understand why it might (or has to) cost a kid hundreds of bucks to play a short season of competitive baseball.

My BIL's 12U team played between 56-62 games this season. I still can't wrap my mind around that number.

With a talented 8yo for a son, we are rapidly approaching this situation. Our league is reported to be starting a 10U travel team and my buddy and my names have been mentioned as the guys they'd like to coach it. Maybe, I'm naive about it, but isn't there a way to get sponsorship for a deal like this?

I guess this is just the reality/future of the sport. I always thought it was just a way of certain parents keeping their kids together on the same team, at the exclusion of *other* families, and use it as another tool to "maintain the hierarchy" ... but at this point, it seems there are travel leagues everywhere.

[Louisville Slugger]

So, low-income kids that either (or both) are good at baseball or are passionate about it are just screwed. This is one of my main gripes about 'travel ball' (and I have a long list of gripes).

I have seen some organizations offer 'scholarships' to kids whose talent warrants a roster spot, even though the family cannot pay the fee nor the travel expenses (fuel, hotel, etc). That also creates tension with the parents who did pay for their kid to sit the bench behind a kid whose family didn't.

I guess I just don't understand why it might (or has to) cost a kid hundreds of bucks to play a short season of competitive baseball.

My BIL's 12U team played between 56-62 games this season. I still can't wrap my mind around that number.

With a talented 8yo for a son, we are rapidly approaching this situation. Our league is reported to be starting a 10U travel team and my buddy and my names have been mentioned as the guys they'd like to coach it. Maybe, I'm naive about it, but isn't there a way to get sponsorship for a deal like this?

I guess this is just the reality/future of the sport. I always thought it was just a way of certain parents keeping their kids together on the same team, at the exclusion of *other* families, and use it as another tool to "maintain the hierarchy" ... but at this point, it seems there are travel leagues everywhere.

It can cost as much as 2 to 3 thousand dollars up front for a kid to play travel ball if they are playing in several tournaments and can go much higher once you sharpen your pencil and add the gasoline, food, snacks, drinks and lodging if they are out of town tournaments. Tournaments at Cooperstown are $665 per player. Then add the hotel or rented house for the parents. Travel ball can be unbelievably expensive!

Some of the costs can be offset by fundraising efforts like getting sponsorships from local businesses. But this can be difficult in the current economic climate.

And yes, poaching kids from other teams is just part of the travel ball world. Some coaches are truly skilled salesmen, schmoozing mom and dad to collect as much talent as they can. That's just the way it is...

[Jake Patterson]

I guess I just don't understand why it might (or has to) cost a kid hundreds of bucks to play a short season of competitive baseball.
It shouldn't and its usually the adults that mess this up.



My BIL's 12U team played between 56-62 games this season. I still can't wrap my mind around that number.
This is more than most HS players play. How can this be good???

[dolphindan1]

I find it odd that four teams cut a player because of his father's actions, being that they're two different people. If the kid isn't good then cut him, if the kid is a jerk then cut him, but if the kid does nothing wrong it's not fair to cut him because his dad is a jerk.

I dont know if he was necessarily cut but he was on 4 different teams in my area and I know 3 of the coaches...they all said it was issues with the dad...from my experience... the dad was very unhappy with how I was caoching...He got mad when I pulled his son off the mound, mad when he sat a inning...this went on for 2 tournaments and he even went to the owner of our organization ad was bad mouthing me to all the parents...talking how he wants to take over the team...this was after a 3-1 tourney...after talking to the owner and getting his support...I pulled the dad to the side and told him another word from him and he was gone....him and his son never came back...he has gone to another team and taking over coaching and emailing all my kids parents trying to get them....I saw the one blow up the same dad had on another team at a tournament...the coach told them leave the kids jersey and leave....so thats what I meant

[Jake Patterson]

Originally Posted by blackngold29
I find it odd that four teams cut a player because of his father's actions, being that they're two different people. If the kid isn't good then cut him, if the kid is a jerk then cut him, but if the kid does nothing wrong it's not fair to cut him because his dad is a jerk
I respectfully disagree... The coaches job is NOT to be a parental councellor. If the parent, after appropriate number of warnings, does not conform to the rules of the team, the coach has little choice. No one should be allowed to disrupt the team regardless how good the child is. Is this fair to the child NO, but the responsibility here is the parents, not the coaches.

You of course would do all you can to make this situation go away, but sometimes the parents leave the coach little choice. In the past I have asked parents not to come to games and practices because of their disruptive nature, some did and some did not. Those who did not were asked to leave the team.

[CircleChange11]

It shouldn't and its usually the adults that mess this up.

That's pretty much my perspective also.


This is more than most HS players play. How can this be good???

Since it's more games than I played per college season, this is one of my questions/concerns also.

THe "answer" is basically, parents pay a lot of money and expect a lot of games. Also, the team has essentially 10 kids interested in pitching and with this number of games, they all get a chance to pitch in game situations.

They are also in a location where it's 30 miles to 5 different medium sized cities, so access to games/tourneys is there.

It's not my preference, but I am quickly learning that there are very few things in this world that function "as I would do it". Everything I do with my son (only 8) is based on preparing him for high school baseball. What he accomplishes in 9U and 12U and JH baseball is only useful in how it translates to HS success. So, rther than throwing curveballs at age 12, we'll focus on getting hitters out with location an a change-up. Rather than getting pull crazy and collecting hits to the 3rd base side, we practice hitting the ball up the middle and hitting outside pitches to oppo. Where I notice other kids utilizing an uppercut swing to hit the ball to the OF, we concentrate on hitting hard line drives. With the other kids on the team, my focus is on teaching skills, gathering experience in a variety of fielding positions, and creating enthusiasm that leads to the kid playing again next year. What I am finding is that by 12U level, the best 15 kids are already picked and the emphasis is placed on what they do NOW, versus how well they'll play in the future. I try not to get to jaded in my perceptions, but too often I see the adults exploiting kids' talent (relying on a few talented kids) for the justificaton/accomplishments of the coach ... versus "coaching em up". We're sort of in "no man's land" with being in between Chicago and Bloomington but some teams in our conference are experiencing some major league exposure (Zavada with ARZ and Happ with Philly) and a couple of others that were just drafted and/or in college and will be re-drafted, and so far, about half of those kid are 'late-bloomers' that were not the standouts on the 12U level.

At my son;s level, we have 2 of the coaches that are currently JH coaches, and 2 of us are former HS/JH coaches. I am interested to see how this develops as the years go by, because right now these little guys are getting the benefit of some really good coaching (IMO) and are being moved all over the field, versus just playing one position and going for "youth wins".

My preference would be fewer games, more practices. Practice is where instruction occurs.

[Ursa Major]

CircleChange said: Everything I do with my son (only 8) is based on preparing him for high school baseball. What he accomplishes in 9U and 12U and JH baseball is only useful in how it translates to HS success. So, rther than throwing curveballs at age 12, we'll focus on getting hitters out with location an a change-up. Rather than getting pull crazy and collecting hits to the 3rd base side, we practice hitting the ball up the middle and hitting outside pitches to oppo. Where I notice other kids utilizing an uppercut swing to hit the ball to the OF, we concentrate on hitting hard line drives. With the other kids on the team, my focus is on teaching skills, gathering experience in a variety of fielding positions, and creating enthusiasm that leads to the kid playing again next year. What I am finding is that by 12U level, the best 15 kids are already picked and the emphasis is placed on what they do NOW, versus how well they'll play in the future. I try not to get to jaded in my perceptions, but too often I see the adults exploiting kids' talent (relying on a few talented kids) for the justificaton/accomplishments of the coach ... versus "coaching em up".There are two issues here -- both of which are drifting dangerously afield from the original post about stealing players. But, what the heck . . .

It's too easy a target to question whether you should be focused now about getting the kid into high school ball. For now, the primary focus should be on having fun and learning enough to succeed. And, of course, most kids drop out of organized ball by the time they get to high school -- your kid may differ (and I hope he does, as the ride gets even more fun if they stick with it). But, you're a sharp guy, and I'm sure you'll adjust and roll with the punches as time goes along.

The more interesting issues is the question of short term exploitation versus long-term development, with coaches who over-pitch stud pitchers being the most easily targeted culprits. I sense you're also addressing the problem of managers who give minimal instruction and playing time to weaker players in the hopes of winning more games by relying on their studs as much as possible. But, I kinda doubt that coaches often are consciously coaching uppercut swings for big homers even though they know that those swings won't translate to long-term success -- I think they're mostly just too ignorant or lazy to try to correct the bad swings the kids bring onto the team. To the contrary, I think the more common problem is bad coaches promoting 'downswings' rather than a slight uppercut.

What I think is imperative is for the league to make it clear to all coaches and managers at all levels that (a) the league is for the kids, and not the managers/parents' egos, and (b) every kid's experience is just as valued as any other kids. And this should be backed up with training for the coaches so that they do in fact give real and valuable instruction for all kids.

But, I think as a practical matter it will be necessary for parents to supplement their kids' training outside of the youth league setting, whether sending the kid to camp or finding a private instructor or just learning what they need to know right here and teaching it themselves.

[Ursa Major]

So, low-income kids that either (or both) are good at baseball or are passionate about it are just screwed. This is one of my main gripes about 'travel ball' (and I have a long list of gripes). I guess I just don't understand why it might (or has to) cost a kid hundreds of bucks to play a short season of competitive baseball. Ask someone who runs those programs. It'll cost you about a hundred bucks per game (or more) for two umps, and who knows how much to rent fields and pay for someone to prep them.

Now, a sponsor may pay, say, $400 to sponsor a team for a season that is playing on its home field where its sponsor banner is proudly displayed in front of its potential customers. But Joe's Pizzeria in Smallville isn't going to pay to sponsor a team that is playing its games in far flung Metropolis and Gotham City, right? So that income is gone.

And that's just the out-of-pocket expenses (and I'm not even getting into the cost of equipment, insurance and baseballs). Parents often will spend $60 a day for a summer camp where their kids are being looked after by a high school sophomore. It's not too much to expect that they'd pay that when their kid is being mentored for a whole day by a guy who used to play professional baseball, is it?

[dolphindan1]

So, low-income kids that either (or both) are good at baseball or are passionate about it are just screwed. This is one of my main gripes about 'travel ball' (and I have a long list of gripes).

I have seen some organizations offer 'scholarships' to kids whose talent warrants a roster spot, even though the family cannot pay the fee nor the travel expenses (fuel, hotel, etc). That also creates tension with the parents who did pay for their kid to sit the bench behind a kid whose family didn't.

I guess I just don't understand why it might (or has to) cost a kid hundreds of bucks to play a short season of competitive baseball.

My BIL's 12U team played between 56-62 games this season. I still can't wrap my mind around that number.

With a talented 8yo for a son, we are rapidly approaching this situation. Our league is reported to be starting a 10U travel team and my buddy and my names have been mentioned as the guys they'd like to coach it. Maybe, I'm naive about it, but isn't there a way to get sponsorship for a deal like this?

I guess this is just the reality/future of the sport. I always thought it was just a way of certain parents keeping their kids together on the same team, at the exclusion of *other* families, and use it as another tool to "maintain the hierarchy" ... but at this point, it seems there are travel leagues everywhere.

We do fundraising and let the kids go after sponsors....the more they work at the fundraising and Sponsorship a less of a burden it is on the family....My son played on a team in the fall and the did alot of fundraising and played I think 10 tourneys...most of them away from home...I may have spent 300 bucks for the whole season....he got 4 uniforms, a nice bat bag and helmet out of it too....it was a great experience....it was his 1st go round in travel ball on a 12u majors team and he was the only new kid that made it at tryouts. He didnt get alot of playing time but he learned alot and never gave up and still loves playing to this day...

[CircleChange11]

There are two issues here -- both of which are drifting dangerously afield from the original post about stealing players. But, what the heck . . .

It's too easy a target to question whether you should be focused now about getting the kid into high school ball.

What I mean by my comment is essentially "not allowing 'bad habits' that will need to be unlearned later on" ... such as uppercut swings, being a ball hog, always expecting to play SS when not pitching, throwing with bad mechanics (and getting away with it due to physical size or natural ability, etc.

With my son, we are more in danger of him burning me out than the other way around. I read a report of a LL team on the East Coast practicing year round in preparation for LLWS qualification. That would be a dream scenario for my son. I'd rather he play soccer/football in the fall, and basketball in the winter.


What I think is imperative is for the league to make it clear to all coaches and managers at all levels that (a) the league is for the kids, and not the managers/parents' egos, and (b) every kid's experience is just as valued as any other kids. And this should be backed up with training for the coaches so that they do in fact give real and valuable instruction for all kids.

Strongly agree. IMO, a large part of a youth coach's 'success' should be measured by how many of his current players sign up again next year.


But, I think as a practical matter it will be necessary for parents to supplement their kids' training outside of the youth league setting, whether sending the kid to camp or finding a private instructor or just learning what they need to know right here and teaching it themselves.

This is just crushing to me, but we go to the diamonds daily ... and we are always the only ones out there. When I was a kid, there were always dads out there throwing BP with their kids, and if adults weren't there, we'd play a game of 'Indian Ball' or some other game where we made up rules to accomodate a 10-player game. Now, kids seem to be playing XBOX/PS3 or taking private lessons versus just "playing ball" with other kids.

This ties into this thread, because I have MANY concerns regarding travel ball and how it is handled by the adults. To not allow my son to participate on these teams would be to 'punish him' based on some disagreements I have as an adult (not with other adults, but to the process). So, I try and think about what I can do to make it "fun" and "learning" for the kids, while also doing what I can to eleviate cost per family, and also be a 'workhorse' during practice (I can hit and throw as the day goes long).

In regards to many of my concerns, it seems to just be 'the way it is', and I'll just have to suck it up and focus on those aspects that I can control (the fun, the teaching, etc).

[Ursa Major]

CircleChange said: What I mean by my comment is essentially "not allowing 'bad habits' that will need to be unlearned later on" ... such as uppercut swings, being a ball hog, always expecting to play SS when not pitching, throwing with bad mechanics (and getting away with it due to physical size or natural ability, etc.CC, I guess I partly misconstrued your comment, because it pre-supposes the existence of a debate -- "should be let kids get away with bad mechanics and habits now that they'll need to unlearn later?" -- that pretty much has been resolved around here with a pretty resounding "NO". So, on that point, you're pretty much preaching to the choir here.

To be sure, there are advanced mechanical techniques that will be lost on many youth hitters, and some kids' flaws and physical shortcomings are so pronounced that you have to perform 'triage' and focus on the main problems and let others go, for awhile. But, a good swing at the college level is a good swing at the 10 y/o level and should be aspired to in the younger set as well. Sure, some kid with a loopy arm swing and his $380 bat may be able to blast rec ball 11 year old pitchers, but that good swing that you're teaching will be indispensable when they start facing pitchers who can spot breaking balls on the low outside corner.

[CircleChange11]

CC, I guess I partly misconstrued your comment, because it pre-supposes the existence of a debate -- "should be let kids get away with bad mechanics and habits now that they'll need to unlearn later?" -- that pretty much has been resolved around here with a pretty resounding "NO". So, on that point, you're pretty much preaching to the choir here.

To be sure, there are advanced mechanical techniques that will be lost on many youth hitters, and some kids' flaws and physical shortcomings are so pronounced that you have to perform 'triage' and focus on the main problems and let others go, for awhile. But, a good swing at the college level is a good swing at the 10 y/o level and should be aspired to in the younger set as well. Sure, some kid with a loopy arm swing and his $380 bat may be able to blast rec ball 11 year old pitchers, but that good swing that you're teaching will be indispensable when they start facing pitchers who can spot breaking balls on the low outside corner.

I was looking at it from the standpoint of what seperates elite HS programs from the also-rans ... and it's not always "the talent pool". Elite programs often do not have to spend time teaching fundamentals, or tweaking mechanics, but rather get to delve into advanced strategy or examining mechanics to maximize potential versus correcting mistakes/habits.

One of my coaching buddies at an elite program has this figured out to the "t". He offers free 'coaching clinics' to the dads/coaches of youth teams (12U and below). It's something like 4 saturdays when they examine/instruct proper pitching and hitting mechanics, and how to teach them (he even gets them to use HIS terminology). Since he's the JH and HS coach of teams that are always in state contention, they get on board quite quickly. At this point, he has dads/assistants leading the instruction and has a nice little "coaching tree" going on where the "trainees have become the trainers". He essentially gets to coach the same kids from 6th grade through senior year, with most of their "kinks" worked out by 6th grade. It's not fair. *grin*