Stopping a 10U from stealing?

[rsully]

Is it possible? I coach a 10U all star team and many of the tournaments, leading off is allowed. Thus, virtually 95% of the time, a walk or single immediately comes a triple. Rarely, are there catchers and pitchers who can execute a pitchout effectively enough to slow down the running.

My question: Is there a way to slow down the running game. BTW, these kids play on 60' bases.

Ron

[rbgrubbs]

The key is limiting the jump....and quick catchers.....

Work hard on pick-off plays that keep the runners close....and a quick release from the catcher

[Baseball gLove]

Practice, practice, practice. Teach your pitchers how to pick to 1st. Teach your catcher to throw to the front right corner of 2nd base on clean catches or hold on to the ball and get it to the pitcher. It's better to one hop the throw then to let it fly. Teach your 2nd baseman and center fielder to back up those throws. My 9 year old F7 threw out 3 at the plate on balls that got by the 3rd baseman. Our 10U lefty averaged 2 pick offs at 1st and 1 pick off at 2nd. Our 9U righty had an average of 1 pick off at 1st every 3 games and 1 pick off at 2nd every 2 games. Your pitcher doesn't have to throw to hold the runner. All he needs to do is perform a proper dismount off the rubber and fake a throw. Do this often early. Just remember it's 2 bases if the ball goes out of play if he dismounts from the rubber then throws. Your pitcher can't fake to 1st on a straight pick from the rubber and it is one base to runner(s) if ball goes out of play.

I once had a dad tell his son, my catcher, don't throw the ball until the SS or 2nd baseman are there. Are you kidding me???? If you listen to that garbage, don't bother...get it the pitcher.

[Ursa Major]

Just to be clear, we're talking about leadoffs on 60 foot bases, right? That . . . is . . . ridiculous.

Possible approaches:
1. Have a pitchout sign.
2. Teach pitchers how to use slide steps.
3. Alter the duration of the pause at the strech.
4. Use the "53" play with runners of first and third (i.e., fake throw to third and throw to first).
5. Throw lots of strikes and hope for line drives at fielders (to turn into double plays) or, at worst, foul balls that will require the runner to return to the base.
6. Enter other tournaments.

[Jake Patterson]

Just to be clear, we're talking about leadoffs on 60 foot bases, right? That . . . is . . . ridiculous. I agree... Just doing the math... If a player gets a 8 foot lead that leaves 52 feet. If we were to time the runners at this age I would suspect that they could cover this distance in 5-6 seconds??? Now if we timed a good 10 y/o pitcher and catcher to second base, I would suspect few are good enough to throw the runners out. The rule on a field this size is foolish and teaches little.

That being said....
Here's what I would do.
Get your pitchers on the mound with a bucket of balls. Have at least 2 first basemen rotating at first base. Two catchers at home. Two players at second, two players at SS. I would assume you have already taught the first basemen how to cover the bag and the pitchers how to step off and throw to first. Have a coach at home, coach at first. Toss the pitcher a ball and have them come to the set while in the stretch. Tell the home or first as soon as the set.

If first:
The coach at 1B is teaching the first baseman how to set a target, how to make a sweep, and how to find the bag with his feet.

The coach on the mound is teaching how to properly step off and how to quick turn.

If home:
Coach on the mound is teaching a quick delivery - slide step? Hitting a pitch out target.

Coach at the plate is teaching a high out target how to turn and hold or how to turn and fire at first and how to fire to second. I would strongly suggest CatchingCoach here for help. His DVD is well worth the money for this issue.

Coach at first is teaching how to cover, how to step off at the pitch home and how to recover, find the bag and cover.

Once this has been sufficiently covered, start using runners.


NOTE: Put a bucket at the bags and feed the pitchers from a bucket at the mound. One ball moving around takes too much time.

Hope this helps.

[CircleChange11]

I agree... Just doing the math... If a player gets a 8 foot lead that leaves 52 feet. If we were to time the runners at this age I would suspect that they could cover this distance in 5-6 seconds??? Now if we timed a good 10 y/o pitcher and catcher to second base, I would suspect few are good enough to throw the runners out. The rule on a field this size is foolish and teaches little.

That's what I was thinking.

Leadoffs in a 10U league? Why?


That being said....
Here's what I would do.


That's about all one can do.

Someone else mentioned to teach your C to throw at the 1B corner of the bag. C'mon. We're talking 10U kids here. 10U kids wearing full catcher's gear and probably just getting to where they can "pounce up" without catching their shin guards together *grin*

There's a limited amount you can do with a rule that leaves a narrow margin for error.

Teaching a proper/quick/accurate pick-off is likely a big step. Still, at 10U, I'd rather pitchers focus on control and throwing strikes with good mechanics so there's plenty of action, and kids learn how to play baseball (not worry about every runner that gets on base) ... not just learn illogical exploits that won't work at higher levels.

I will say at 10U there should be "some" catchers that have strong arms (if not find one), and not every runner is Vince Coleman ... even at 60 foot bases.

I know some coaches that would have their pitchers throw over to 1B so often that there'd be NO CHOICE but to change the rule. :D

[Baseball gLove]

That's what I was thinking.

Leadoffs in a 10U league? Why?



That's about all one can do.

Someone else mentioned to teach your C to throw at the 1B corner of the bag. C'mon. We're talking 10U kids here. 10U kids wearing full catcher's gear and probably just getting to where they can "pounce up" without catching their shin guards together *grin*

There's a limited amount you can do with a rule that leaves a narrow margin for error.

Teaching a proper/quick/accurate pick-off is likely a big step. Still, at 10U, I'd rather pitchers focus on control and throwing strikes with good mechanics so there's plenty of action, and kids learn how to play baseball (not worry about every runner that gets on base) ... not just learn illogical exploits that won't work at higher levels.

I will say at 10U there should be "some" catchers that have strong arms (if not find one), and not every runner is Vince Coleman ... even at 60 foot bases.

I know some coaches that would have their pitchers throw over to 1B so often that there'd be NO CHOICE but to change the rule. :D

We've had 10U with stealing and lead-offs allowed going on 20 years. We have never had problems with our games. All of the kids were able to adapt. We use CBO and require that ALL Players get a minimum of 3 defensive innings.

We have had parents that left the league because of hurt feelings that their little ones didn't make all stars to play Little League. They came back. The kids said it was boring compared to being able to lead off and steal. One of the kids called Little League patty cake baseball. We've seen Little League Pre-Tournament teams at invitationals that only allowed LL and Pony Tournament teams. The Little League teams Never made it to the finals at those tourneys. And don't kid yourselves, those LL all star teams were playing together in Sunday club ball leagues during the regular season. My son was being recruited by one of those squads. When we told them we didn't live within their boundaries, they said they could fix that.

[DerekD]

Another thing to work on is the catchers' blocking skills. If he can keep the ball out front, this will hold those runners at third.

[scorekeeper]

Is it possible? I coach a 10U all star team and many of the tournaments, leading off is allowed. Thus, virtually 95% of the time, a walk or single immediately comes a triple. Rarely, are there catchers and pitchers who can execute a pitchout effectively enough to slow down the running.

My question: Is there a way to slow down the running game. BTW, these kids play on 60' bases.

Well, let’s get off on the correct foot. Are you trying to make the problem seem bigger than it is? 95% of anything is a huge percentage. ;)

I’ll let the smarter guys counsel you on how to slow down the running game once they get on base. I’ll try to stick with slowing it down the only sure fire way I know of. You can’t do a heck of a lot about hitters getting clean hits. It happens, and it always will. But, there are other ways runners reach 1st that you can have control over.

Do this. Get out the scorebook and see how many runners reach first on errors. While you’re there, count how many runners reach the next base on errors too. Count them separately, but don’t forget to treat wild pitches and passed balls as errors too. Also make sure you count the number of walks and hit batters too.

Hits are gonna happen, and there’s really nothing anyone can do about it other than try to make a quality pitch in a quality location and hope the hitter doesn’t get a clean hit off of it. But, you’re the coach and you have a direct effect on the number of errors your team makes! There will always be errors, but if you can cut down just 10% of them, look how many bases you’ll save!

The same thing goes for hit batters and walks. They’re gonna happen, but if you can cut say a third of the BB’s and HBP’s, look at the amazing gift you’ve given the players, and therefore the team! Remember, if a runner doesn’t reach 1st to start with, he can’t get to 2nd, 3rd, and for sure can’t score!

Take a look at the attachment. The 1st 2 pages are for 3 HSV seasons, and the last 2 are from this season’s JR Legion team’s season. I’m gonna guess that both of those teams play at a higher skill level than 10YO AS’s, so you can imaging what looking at your team’s numbers will look like.

Again, if a runner doesn’t reach 1st to start with, he can’t get to 2nd, 3rd, and for sure can’t score!

[bballdad175]

LOL! Yes, 10U can be stopped. But if all you have are a couple of practices, then you have to be satisfied with getting them at 3rd because that is doable in a short amount of time. I went through this with my own All Star team just this year.

Anyway, teach the pitchers the "wheel" or spin move where they lift the leg as it to go home, but spin glove side instead and throw to 2B.

Next, spend time with the pitchers on coming set and making a deliberate look to the runner at 2B. They can look 1x, 2x, 3x but the important thing is that when they look back home is when they pitch.

Last, teach the pitchers a slide step (actually I prefer a little "knee-to-knee" load). For a few games I would just yell at them "slide step" when I wanted it. After a while, we just gave a different sign to the pitcher when I wanted a fast ball with a slide-step.

Also, have your middle infielder (SS or 2B, your choice depending on batter or pitcher's velocity) "hold" the runner close buy not being more than a few steps from the bag. If you have good middle-infielders, you might get them to work together to hold the runner, but I didn't so I just resorted to telling one of them to stay close (which one depended on the situation or pitcher)!

If you do this and have a decent catcher who can throw accurately to 3rd you can stop the 3B steal.

In a game, we gave signs to the pitcher for the "wheel" move pick (picks were two signs flashed where the 2nd sign was the pick - a 1 was a step off, a 2 was a "wheel"). So once a runner got to 2B, we would pick at least once with the wheel, because that seems to always gets the kids going back to 2B.

Then if I thought the kid was going on first pitch, we'd slide-step him after the pick. If the kid didn't go, I'd mix up the regular kick and slide step fastball pitches until we got him to go.

We were fortunate and picked a couple off with the "wheel" move (not every pitcher could do it though). But even without that, with the slide step and a decent catcher , we got to where we'd always get a runner caught at 3B in the 1st or 2nd inning. That basically stopped all the teams from running after that.

[Titans Baseball]

The bestest, easiest way to stop 10u kids from stealing is to GET THEM OUT. Period. We spend a good 45 minutes to an hour at every practice working on pickoff moves with the pitchers.

This gives all the kids a TON of practice at getting their own leads, diving back, recognizing the moves, etc.

More importantly, our pitchers are all WICKED nasty to first base, and even moreso to 2nd (we have some great pick plays to 2B).

Our catchers practice a lot on the snaps to 1B and the steal to 3B. You'd be shocked at how many kids we catch at 1st as they sleepwalk back.

I have to honestly say that our team is probably the most practiced at any tournament in picking kids off at all the bases. We nail more kids with the pitchers and on steals to third than anyone we've played against or scouted ... but that's just because we got sick of being burned last year with it, and decided to devote practice time to it at every practice. We're better baserunners because of it, and word gets out quick in a tournament that you ain't runnin on the Titans -- and most coaches will test the waters in the early innings, get pegged, and then the running STOPS.

Its next to impossible, the originial poster is correct, for a 10u catch to get a kid at 2B on a steal with a leadoff on 60' bases. So, while our catchers do throw down every time, we don't expect the out ... but we do want to showcase the arms. The first time they head to 3rd, they're dead meat, and that pretty much stops it.

The key is to make some early outs and show the other teams that while they can probably steal 2nd on your Catch, they ain't gettin 3rd, and they'll be lucky to get the chance because your pitchers are so good with the picks. Fear is a great motivator. Scare them back to the sacks by getting them out early. It's the only way to get back to playing baseball ;)

[crazyhawk]

How long are your regular practices Titan? That is some devotion to the pickoff. I applaud it, but that is a lot of time unless you have a long practice.

[Baseball gLove]

The bestest, easiest way to stop 10u kids from stealing is to GET THEM OUT. Period. We spend a good 45 minutes to an hour at every practice working on pickoff moves with the pitchers.

This gives all the kids a TON of practice at getting their own leads, diving back, recognizing the moves, etc.

More importantly, our pitchers are all WICKED nasty to first base, and even moreso to 2nd (we have some great pick plays to 2B).

Our catchers practice a lot on the snaps to 1B and the steal to 3B. You'd be shocked at how many kids we catch at 1st as they sleepwalk back.

I have to honestly say that our team is probably the most practiced at any tournament in picking kids off at all the bases. We nail more kids with the pitchers and on steals to third than anyone we've played against or scouted ... but that's just because we got sick of being burned last year with it, and decided to devote practice time to it at every practice. We're better baserunners because of it, and word gets out quick in a tournament that you ain't runnin on the Titans -- and most coaches will test the waters in the early innings, get pegged, and then the running STOPS.

Its next to impossible, the originial poster is correct, for a 10u catch to get a kid at 2B on a steal with a leadoff on 60' bases. So, while our catchers do throw down every time, we don't expect the out ... but we do want to showcase the arms. The first time they head to 3rd, they're dead meat, and that pretty much stops it.

The key is to make some early outs and show the other teams that while they can probably steal 2nd on your Catch, they ain't gettin 3rd, and they'll be lucky to get the chance because your pitchers are so good with the picks. Fear is a great motivator. Scare them back to the sacks by getting them out early. It's the only way to get back to playing baseball ;)

:applaud:There it is. The secret is... Practice, Practice, Practice. Don't dumb down the game...teach it!

[Titans Baseball]

We go M,W,F from 6-8pm Every other week (roughly) we have a tournament on the weekend, so that Friday practice is usually a light walk-through play some wiffle ball, and have relay races, flyers up competitions, and we end that one with a "game" of 18 outs --- they can't leave until they make 18 clean plays in a row. Next year that goes to 21 outs muahahahahah

Every practice is the same: 15 minutes or so of running/warmup/stretch (the kids do this on their own prior to the 6pm start time). Then we play a quick game of either Flyers Up or Home Run Derby for about 10 minutes, finish out the hour with Picks & Steals, and then we split into 3 groups -- Infielders, Outfielders, Catchers and work on skills, plays, coverages for about 45 minutes. The last 15 minutes is usually spent bunting, with each kid getting 10 balls, the last one being live. We setup zones and score points when they drop them down properly into a zone. Lowest points sings I'm a little teapot in a duet with the loser of Flyers Up ;)

We never hit in practice (nothing is a bigger waste of time). 2 of the dads have batting cages in their yards and have an "Open Yard" policy. The boys are all so close that they end up over each others houses most of the time, so they all get plenty of cage time.

We try and focus on the things that help us win games -- baserunning and controlling that on defense. Making the make-able plays (grounders and pop-ups), our catchers block, frame, and throw with the best of them, and every kid can lay down a bunt. That's it, nice and simple. We don't do a lot of complicated signs, plays and coverages. We keep it simple, and we execute ... and we generally win. We don't take home the big trophy every time, but we've played for it 4 out of 6 times so far this year.

[CircleChange11]

We've had 10U with stealing and lead-offs allowed going on 20 years. We have never had problems with our games. All of the kids were able to adapt. We use CBO and require that ALL Players get a minimum of 3 defensive innings.

I believe you. In 10U that's why I, as a lefty, was put behind the plate. There have to be some kids that can throw quickly to second base. My guess is that they're playing SS or on the mound.

Too often in youth leagues, the kid behind the plate is back there solely as a "big target" or a backstop. Not a good idea, IMO.

[bballdad175]

Titans baseball - I like your philosophy! We didn't do much hitting in my All Star team practices either. The kids go to that level by being good hitters, so we worked on the defensive stuff almost exclusively.

But with that said, 10U kids do like to hit so every 3rd practice we'd take one hour and do a "situational" hitting session that I picked up from another discussion board. It worked out great and really works baserunning as well.

Here it is pitch-by-pitch starting with a runner on 1st and a batter:

1st : sac bunt, runners reads down angle and goes all the way to 3rd
2nd : safety squeeze bunt, runner reads bunt location and breaks home on play
3rd : while runner is walking back to 1st, hitter bunts for a hit
4th : hit and run, runner goes to 2B
5th : batter hits behind runner who is at 2B, batter advances to 3rd on correct hit
6th-10th: with runner at 3B, batter gets 4 swings to "bring him in" which could be sac fly, grounder, etc, runner reads hit ball and breaks home accordingly

Also to make it come out right, the 1st RUNNER is the LAST batter. Then have each batter become the next runner.
Most kids won't execute thye correct hit on each pitch, so we'll give them an extra pitch here and there, but after a few times through this, they were able to get it done pretty effectively. Same with the baserunning, the first time through the baserunners were like "what????" But after a few guys go through it and by the next time you do the drill, they actually start to get good leads, reads, and breaks.

[Titans Baseball]

I like that hitting drill ... we don't do a whole lot of directional/situational hitting at this stage ... we're pretty happy to get bats on balls. It's good to get them in that mindset, though, and to work on the skills. I'll put that to the test at a practice next week!

[bballdad175]

Yes - we didn't focus on the hitting really at all. We set up a reasonable defense and tried to have them stop each ball if they could. And our BP pitcher (an adult) would look kids back and throw over now and then too.

But the kids surprised us and were pretty much able to get it done as per our direction. What we really focus on is the baserunning, getting proper leads, getting a good read on the batted ball, etc. I'd like to hear how it goes for you guys if you try it.

I had both a 14U and a 10U team this year and all the players liked this drill.

BTW - to make it come out right, the 1st RUNNER is the LAST batter. Then have each batter become the next runner. I edited teh initial post above as well in case others come across it.

[gameth]

I agree... Just doing the math... If a player gets a 8 foot lead that leaves 52 feet. If we were to time the runners at this age I would suspect that they could cover this distance in 5-6 seconds???

My 10U gets second to home on 70 foot bases in 7.0 to 7.2 so I would think kids are getting 52 feet a lot faster then 6 seconds! Making it next to impossible to throwout on a steal attempt. Im pretty sure they could be pulling a trailer and still get to 2nd in time.

[Ursa Major]

My 10U gets second to home on 70 foot bases in 7.0 to 7.2 so I would think kids are getting 52 feet a lot faster then 6 seconds! Making it next to impossible to throwout on a steal attempt. Im pretty sure they could be pulling a trailer and still get to 2nd in time.

Hey, that's my trailer that I pulled all throughout youth ball. Unfortunately, I've since added an addition in front .... :ooo:

And, yeah, you're right. Must've been a misprint on that six second estimate.