Wade Boggs hits the nail on the head [Archive]

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Seattle1

07-09-2009, 08:12 PM

Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan

07-09-2009, 08:30 PM

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4271697

No steroid cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Zip, zero, zilch. Way to speak out Wade. I agree 100 percent.

I just wish it was physically possible to agree 110 percent.

Hey, great video thanks for posting.

I wouldn't have put it the way Boggs put it, but I somewhat agree. I'm still torn about this whole steroids thing though. On one hand, a part of me thinks the best way to deal with issue is to induct the best from the era, and not necessarily the second tier who would be historically qualified or whatnot. But cheating is cheating; there's no question it was wrong.

The problem is, with technology being the way it is, they'll always be someone ahead of the system. They'll be some substance not yet banned that will probably fall outside the letter of the law that people will exploit until that loophole is closed up. OT but today a lab in the UK artificially created human sperm for gawd sakes. Technology is getting insane and if it's not steroids it will be the next super substance artificially inflating the abilities of players going forward.

Not sure if we'll ever see truly 'clean' game the way it was historically again.

Ace Venom

07-09-2009, 10:38 PM

The point is that certain players that deserved better got overlooked because they unfairly got compared to the PED players that many writers and these Hall of Famers don't want in. Sorry, but you can't have it both ways. Guys like Will Clark deserved a lot better than they got.

And who said the game was ever clean? If the game was pure, then Judge Landis would have just been a footnote in American law. Game fixing is a much worse offense because at least the guys taking PEDs were trying to win. It's not saying much, but Cooperstown is a joke anyway.

everythingbaseball

07-09-2009, 11:28 PM

Captain Cold Nose

07-10-2009, 05:21 AM

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4271697

No steroid cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Zip, zero, zilch. Way to speak out Wade. I agree 100 percent.

I just wish it was physically possible to agree 110 percent.

HOF? Heck, burn 'em at the stake! Let our blind ignorance and convenient umbrage guide us to not really helping fix the issue.

davewashere

07-10-2009, 08:44 AM

At some point a player is going to get inducted into the HOF and then someone will uncover evidence that he used PEDs. What do we do with that guy? Take away his HOF status? If tomorrow someone sends the media solid evidence that Rickey Henderson was juicing at the end of his career, what would the HOF's policy be?

whoisonit

07-10-2009, 09:24 AM

http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4271697

No steroid cheaters in the Hall of Fame. Zip, zero, zilch. Way to speak out Wade. I agree 100 percent.

I just wish it was physically possible to agree 110 percent.

Agree completely.

No steroid cheaters in the HoF is EXACTLY the type of punative measure that will help solve the problem.

Unfortunately, some are too hot headed and quick to argue to comprehend this.

One thing is always a given around here when one voices disgust with baseball's moraly bankrupt liars and cheaters;
the thread will have beligerant posts attacking those who are repulsed by what has taken place with PED's. It's pathetic :sigh:. And a fact.

At some point a player is going to get inducted into the HOF and then someone will uncover evidence that he used PEDs. What do we do with that guy? Take away his HOF status? ?

Very easy to answer. Very.
Take away his HoF status. Banish him forever. Let him wear the scarlet 'C' & 'L' he earned by his lack of integrity.
There is no grey area here. It's black and white.

sturg1dj

07-10-2009, 09:36 AM

Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan

07-10-2009, 09:52 AM

you know that 24 he put up in 1987 sure looks weird with all of those other totals.....hmmm...

and for Will Clark...that .345 he hit in his last season as Mark McGwire's teammate sure was interesting.

I am so tired of all of this.

Boogs put up 24 HR is 1987, the year of the 'Juiced' ball. Also putting up way out of proportion power numbers: Alan Trammell, Andre Dawson, Larry Sheets, Dale Sveum, George Bell, Wally Joyner, Will Clark, Brook Jacoby, Matt Nokes etc

nerfan

07-10-2009, 10:06 AM

PVNICK

07-10-2009, 10:11 AM

Very true.

I hate how people dig on Brady Anderson for that 50 home run season. Please. The ball was most likely juiced in the 90's as well, and power surges aren't that uncommon in baseball. Look at Davey Johnson's 43 in 1973, Ted Klusewski (butchered spelling yeah). There is park tinkering as well.
I think they acually changed the dimensions at his park which worked out for Klu. The Yankees pullled in the LF fences when they had Baylor and Winfield and I think the Pirates did the same for Greenberg.

BigandUgly

07-10-2009, 10:11 AM

I'm kind of tired of the whole steroid thing. I don't care. If someone was the best in their period, put them in. Baseball was better with steroids.

If the Hall did decide to officially ban steroid users I wouldn't really care either. I can see the rationale. You cheated, you're not really the best.

My only problem with banning the roiders is the inability to "prove" who the roiders were. There is a lot of evidence for some players, but no proof. I have a hard time punishing people until they are proven guilty. Show me the PROOF that Big Mac used illegal performance enhancing drugs.

Captain Cold Nose

07-10-2009, 10:20 AM

Agree completely.

No steroid cheaters in the HoF is EXACTLY the type of punative measure that will help solve the problem.

Unfortunately, some are too hot headed and quick to argue to comprehend this.

One thing is always a given around here when one voices disgust with baseball's moraly bankrupt liars and cheaters;
the thread will have beligerant posts attacking those who are repulsed by what has taken place with PED's. It's pathetic :sigh:. And a fact.

So how is the weather in 1690 Salem, Senator McCarthy?

What's hot-headed is to condemn everyone regardless of actual facts or bothering for situational understanding or hiding behind morality to take a sweeping stance to the situation? Morally bankrupt? Really, while everything else that has happened in the sports world, things far worse than steroids, is ok. No, don't bother to look for it, it has nothing to do with the convenient stance that now, all of a sudden, there are probvlems worth dishing out the ultimate punishment. Why the OTS continues his disingenous crusade (because *his* guys are clean, let's get rid of the rest of them no matter what for reasons that are have very little to do with the actual issue at hand) is up to him. That's his right. But it's our right to call this moral highground what it is as we see it.

whoisonit

07-10-2009, 11:57 AM

So how is the weather in 1690 Salem, Senator McCarthy?

lol
I think you're mixing ... oh never mind.

What's hot-headed is to condemn everyone regardless of actual facts or bothering for situational understanding or hiding behind morality to take a sweeping stance to the situation? Morally bankrupt? Really, while everything else that has happened in the sports world, things far worse than steroids, is ok. No, don't bother to look for it, it has nothing to do with the convenient stance that now, all of a sudden, there are probvlems worth dishing out the ultimate punishment. Why the OTS continues his disingenous crusade (because *his* guys are clean, let's get rid of the rest of them no matter what for reasons that are have very little to do with the actual issue at hand) is up to him. That's his right. But it's our right to call this moral highground what it is as we see it.

oh snap ?
Hard to tell.
This is rather incoherent.

sturg1dj

07-10-2009, 12:50 PM

Boogs put up 24 HR is 1987, the year of the 'Juiced' ball. Also putting up way out of proportion power numbers: Alan Trammell, Andre Dawson, Larry Sheets, Dale Sveum, George Bell, Wally Joyner, Will Clark, Brook Jacoby, Matt Nokes etc

Very true.

I hate how people dig on Brady Anderson for that 50 home run season. Please. The ball was most likely juiced in the 90's as well, and power surges aren't that uncommon in baseball. Look at Davey Johnson's 43 in 1973, Ted Klusewski (butchered spelling yeah).

There is park tinkering as well.
I think they acually changed the dimensions at his park which worked out for Klu. The Yankees pullled in the LF fences when they had Baylor and Winfield and I think the Pirates did the same for Greenberg.

ahh, how naive.

you guys are so strong against steroids...unless an accusation arises against someone you like. Juiced ball? Right.

Steroids have been involved in sports since the 1960's but, of course, it didn't hit baseball until the mid to late 90's....right?

What are you going to do when we find out Cal Ripken, Jr. used? Is your head going to explode...haha.

PVNICK

07-10-2009, 01:10 PM

what on earth are you talking about? is there a point, I get tired of the stick their head in the sand crowd myself and try to stick to reality (as I understand it).

Brad Harris

07-10-2009, 01:43 PM

*facepalm*

Cowtipper

07-10-2009, 03:56 PM

The steroid era is just another era in baseball. And that's that. Don't "banish" people because they were part of an era.

Well, we better kick Pud Galvin out, he tried using performance enhancers. Schmidt used greenies, kick him out too. Bob Gibson, he benefited from a pitcher friendly mound--gotta kick him out. Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford threw an illegal pitch, kick them out. Even the mighty Mickey Mantle once took an injection consisting of steroids and speed. STEROIDS?!!??!?! Got to kick Mickey Mantle out too? Doggone. Hank Aaron took amphetamines, Willie Mays took speed, Koufax did stuff too. Those SCUM have to go as well. Pete Alexander used alcohol when it was illegal! Give him the boot!

Talking about morally bankrupt? What's more morally bankrupt than dealing drugs and doing cocaine? Better kick Fergie Jenkins out of the Hall too. What's more morally bankrupt than cheating on your wife?

Uh oh, this means we gotta kick Boggs out of the Hall as well.

Sorry Wade.

Ace Venom

07-11-2009, 08:00 AM

Well, we better kick Pud Galvin out, he tried using performance enhancers. Schmidt used greenies, kick him out too. Bob Gibson, he benefited from a pitcher friendly mound--gotta kick him out. Gaylord Perry and Whitey Ford threw an illegal pitch, kick them out. Even the mighty Mickey Mantle once took an injection consisting of steroids and speed. STEROIDS?!!??!?! Got to kick Mickey Mantle out too? Doggone. Hank Aaron took amphetamines, Willie Mays took speed, Koufax did stuff too. Those SCUM have to go as well. Pete Alexander used alcohol when it was illegal! Give him the boot!

Shh! If it happened before the steroid era, it's fine because that wasn't wrong. Didn't you know that?

Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan

07-11-2009, 08:38 AM

whoisonit

07-11-2009, 08:53 AM

Also didn't know Willie Mays was on crank. Interesting.

During the coke hearings in the 80's John Milner, Mays teamate on the Mets, said that Mays drank some type of 'red juice' or something like that. Other than that instance with Milner i don't know of any other acusation against Mays using substances.

STLCards2

07-11-2009, 08:54 AM

ahh, how naive.

you guys are so strong against steroids...unless an accusation arises against someone you like. Juiced ball? Right.

Steroids have been involved in sports since the 1960's but, of course, it didn't hit baseball until the mid to late 90's....right?

.

Your'e overall point might be right, but MadduxFan is right about 1987. A lot of guys had big power increases that year (the HR rates look similar to 90s/00s), and suddenly in 1988, the entire league went back into power-failure mode. I have heard theroies, but nobdoy knows for sure why the massive offensive peak for a single season surrounded by non-offensive years.

I seriously doubt most of these guys started steroids in 1987, it worked that fast, and they all dropped the juice the next year.

stuarthouse

07-11-2009, 08:58 AM

Wade is right but the only problem is how do you determine when some one was using PEDs without any doubt. You can't just go on suspicion, like Barry Bonds, who I don't want to see in the HoF but how do you prove that in fact he did use that's not just an accusation.

If you do just go on accusations writers could accuse anyone of this era of baseball they didn't like just so he wouldn't get into the HoF. I don't think that's fair because there are some players who I know (or at least really hope) that didn't cheat like Greg Maddux who should get into the HoF with out a tainted mark who playing in the "Steroid" era.
This is the problem that the steroid users created. How can you fairly compare players from one era to another now? This used to be arguably possible. One of Baseball's great engaging charms was its record book. That has been damaged beyond repair and many fans have dropped away because of it. Remember, only a clearly definable number of players from this era would qualify for the hall anyway. It should not be difficult to decide who the violators are. Just because one or two slip past the guards is no reason to open the flood gates. They made a deal with the devil and they should have to live with it. Joe Jackson and Pete Rose are still not in the Hall of Fame despite flawless statistical credentials. That is as it should be. Damage the game this badly and you do not deserve to be honored and memorialized by it.:hissyfit:

Brad Harris

07-11-2009, 09:02 AM

Ace Venom

07-11-2009, 09:03 AM

Comparing game fixing to PEDs makes about as much sense as comparing the morality of murder to the morality of theft. One can turn the sport into the WWE and the other? Not really much different from the 1970's and 1980's when they were in professional football except the majority of MLB players that got on the train got on it when it was considered illegal by the Federal government.

Cowtipper

07-11-2009, 10:26 AM

Whitey Ford threw an illegal pitch?? First I've heard of that. Please do tell.

Also didn't know Willie Mays was on crank. Interesting.

There's evidence saying he threw a spitball. That's not necessarily proven, but hey, if we're going to play the "guilty until proven innocent game" like too many people are doing nowadays with the steroid era, then he's as guilty as they come.

Greg Maddux's Biggest Fan

07-11-2009, 12:24 PM

interesting.

ol' aches and pains

07-11-2009, 04:50 PM

Boggs used to consume performance-enhacing fried chicken before every game. Not to mention he was an alkie. How many of those hits were aided by a few shots of Wild Turkey between innings? And ahh...who can forget the lovely Margo Adams; the mistress Jose Canseco only wished he had.

The cynic in me would find delicious irony in hearing the news that Boggs was juicing in the 90's too. Not that there's any evidence he was, but wouldn't it be great. He and Schilling are continually throwing stones from their glass houses.

ol' aches and pains

07-11-2009, 04:54 PM

Whitey Ford threw an illegal pitch?? First I've heard of that. Please do tell.

Also didn't know Willie Mays was on crank. Interesting.

Ford used to scuff the ball on his belt buckle or some such. When the umps got wise to him, Elston Howard started doing it for him, rubbing the ball on the ground when the umps weren't looking. Apparently, this went on for years.

Fuzzy Bear

07-16-2009, 07:28 PM

This is the problem that the steroid users created. How can you fairly compare players from one era to another now? This used to be arguably possible. One of Baseball's great engaging charms was its record book. That has been damaged beyond repair and many fans have dropped away because of it. Remember, only a clearly definable number of players from this era would qualify for the hall anyway. It should not be difficult to decide who the violators are. Just because one or two slip past the guards is no reason to open the flood gates. They made a deal with the devil and they should have to live with it. Joe Jackson and Pete Rose are still not in the Hall of Fame despite flawless statistical credentials. That is as it should be. Damage the game this badly and you do not deserve to be honored and memorialized by it.:hissyfit:

Personally, I think this line of reasoning is, to be kind, flawed. It exaggerates and awfulizes a situation that (A) is not unique in the history of baseball, and (B) is somewhat irrelevant to the issue of measuring greatness.

Was the record book damaged beyond repair when baseball juiced up the baseball in 1920? Babe Ruth not only broke the HR records (season and career), but he buried the pieces for a long time to come. (Although I don't agree with Ford Frick's asterisk to Maris' 61 HRs, the Babe still holds the 154 game mark.) Was the pitching record book damaged? There will never be a 40 game winner in baseball again, will there? Indeed, since we lowered the mound after 1968, will there ever be another 30 game winner?

Furthermore, the steroid epidemic isn't the only thing driving the HR surge in baseball. Smaller ballparks play a HUGE role, and the smaller ballparks were phased in during the same time PEDs became huge. Ditto advances in conditioning and nutirition that enabled players to add strength without losing bat speed.

PEDs (some of which were legal) were a condition of the time. They were not something a few did, and the majority were prevented from doing. They were an open secret in clubhouses, used by pitchers and position players alike. Those who did not use PEDs did so by choice; those who did so did it relatively openly, and with the tacit approval of MLB; this is the part that is, to me, unquesitionable. There is NO WAY the problem could have gotten as big as it got without MLB management knowing, and anyone who does must believe that the mayor of a "sin city" is unaware of the crack houses and prostitution parlors in its midst.

As for the record book: It is no more impossible to rate the players of the last 20 years in proper historical context any more than it is impossible to compare Yaz' 1968 season to a early 1920s George Sisler season. Stats, on their face, have NEVER been readily comparable between one era and the next. What IS possible is to rate players of the "PED era" and compare them to each other, and select a reasonable number of those players to the HOF.

Normally, I like Wade Boggs, but I find his tack on all of this to be self-serving. If he wants to talk morals, well, Margo Adams says "Hi!". If Boggs were in the crowd wanting to stone the adultress during Jesus' time, I suppose he would have let the "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" bit go over his head before flinging a boulder or two in the direction of the unfortunate harlot. There's lots of talk about the "morals clause" of the HOF; how well does Mr. Boggs meet its requirements if we take it literally. Boggs is an underrated HOFer who's taken undeserved digs on his accomplishments, but I view his stance here as an attempt to boost his own historical ranking, and that's just plain cheesy.

sturg1dj

07-16-2009, 08:17 PM

didn't need to be said...already said better

if you could, please remove

sturg1dj

07-16-2009, 08:19 PM

There's evidence saying he threw a spitball. That's not necessarily proven, but hey, if we're going to play the "guilty until proven innocent game" like too many people are doing nowadays with the steroid era, then he's as guilty as they come.

well there was a lot of speculation that Elston Howard would scuff the ball on his pads when he caught. But if you want proof of a pitcher throwing an illegal pitch how about Gaylord Perry writing a book about it while he was still playing!

sturg1dj

07-16-2009, 08:20 PM

The cynic in me would find delicious irony in hearing the news that Boggs was juicing in the 90's too. Not that there's any evidence he was, but wouldn't it be great. He and Schilling are continually throwing stones from their glass houses.
aside from his 1987...compare his 1994 to his 1992 and 1993....hmmm

BSmile

07-16-2009, 08:57 PM

Ford used to scuff the ball on his belt buckle or some such. When the umps got wise to him, Elston Howard started doing it for him, rubbing the ball on the ground when the umps weren't looking. Apparently, this went on for years.

Ford also had a special ring that he wore that had a section like a file. I believe he used it for years. Howard also used the buckle on his shin guard to put cuts into the ball....all of which...illegal in baseball.

Los Bravos

07-16-2009, 09:27 PM

And the mud thing that Ellie did, too. I think most of that stuff was happening, at least on a more than occasional basis, later in Ford's career when his arm was about to fall off and he was looking for any edge he could get.

SavoyBG

07-16-2009, 09:51 PM

Agree completely.

No steroid cheaters in the HoF is EXACTLY the type of punative measure that will help solve the problem.

That's not gonna solve the problem. Guys take steroids for the most part because they want that gigantic contract. If they think that taking the juice will get them that one 50 million dollar contract that they otherwise wouldn't get, they'll take the juice, hall of fame or no hall of fame.

If they think that steroids or HGH will get them to the big leagues and keep them there, as opposed to playing in the minor leagues and/or getting released, guess what?

sturg1dj

07-16-2009, 11:05 PM

That's not gonna solve the problem. Guys take steroids for the most part because they want that gigantic contract. If they think that taking the juice will get them that one 50 million dollar contract that they otherwise wouldn't get, they'll take the juice, hall of fame or no hall of fame.

If they think that steroids or HGH will get them to the big leagues and keep them there, as opposed to playing in the minor leagues and/or getting released, guess what?

or in many cases any contract compared to no contract.

if we think about it such a small percentage of players who have been named were hall of fame caliber that it really wouldn't be too much of a deterrent. Of course a death penalty (both figuratively and literally) rarely is.

BC227

07-17-2009, 01:18 PM

Apparently two more hall-of-famers have made statements about the steroids, Bob Gibson and Reggie Jackson.

Gibson's Opinion (http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/4328610/disagree-get-beaned)

Gibson states that players should be allowed in the Hall. While talking to Mike & Mike on the radio, he said that he may or may not have used steroids had it been common at the time. He says that he may have had to use in order to compete with the guys who already chose to juice. He says baseball has "always" had cheaters and guys have always looked for a way to get ahead of the competition. The modern guys shouldn't be treated differently and should be allowed in the hall.

Jackson's Opinion (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601079&sid=aHFVk3XoFebk)

Jackson states that these guys who have been caught cheating should never be allowed in. He sees his accomplishments being made less meaningful by this era of power guys and it bothers him. He says other Hall-of-Famers are being bothered by it and he hopes the "cheaters" never get in.

Just thought I'd throw out these two opinions to help fuel the debate a little bit.

J W

07-20-2009, 09:04 AM

Points to Bob Gibson for bringing an honest assessment to the table.

Reggie? He comes across like a total hypocrite to me. I think he'd be front and center if he were playing in today's game. He suffers badly from "holier than thou" syndrome.

And yeah... regarding the HOF... let us not forget there are members in Cooperstown who allegedly threw games. There may not be too many things worse than illegaly taking PEDS, but that's one of them.

mr.baseball123

07-22-2009, 05:23 PM

Did Reggie ever take steroids?

Captain Cold Nose

07-23-2009, 05:39 AM

Did Reggie ever take steroids?

The hypocrisy comes from self-preservation. He's becoming forgotten, records surpassed. The guy is one of baseball's biggest self-promoters the lasy half-century. Can you honestly say his concerns are genuine or simply self-serving?

mr.baseball123

07-23-2009, 05:24 PM

I didn't know that about Reggie. That's very interesting.

Captain Cold Nose

07-24-2009, 06:11 AM

I didn't know that about Reggie. That's very interesting.

What didn't you know? Now, I am not an anti-Reggie guy at all. I actually have a positive view of him, and thinks he is a well-deserving HOF'er. But I do think his own legacy has a lot to do with his comments. I don't begrudge him for that, really, but it's not the most honest of assessments.

Brad Harris

07-24-2009, 07:10 AM

What didn't you know? Now, I am not an anti-Reggie guy at all. I actually have a positive view of him, and thinks he is a well-deserving HOF'er. But I do think his own legacy has a lot to do with his comments. I don't begrudge him for that, really, but it's not the most honest of assessments.
Jackson was the biggest star of his era and one of the greatest ballplayers in history. To the extent that anything he's said has influenced his legacy, it's to the extent that the press invested itself into portraying him a certain way and that the average fan eats up the public persona that the sports media churns out. These "anti-hero" cloaks the press drape over the game's stars tend to stick around in the collective public memory. As time passes, specifics are forgotten and what remains are the remnants of the impression the paper-selling motifs left behind. "Everybody knew" Dick Allen was a clubhouse cancer though hardly anyone today could name a single incident that supports such an assertion. Probably not many more than that at the time could have anyway.

Reggie, as the most prominent player of the decade - even more so than Pete Rose - was a controversial figure, almost exclusively because of the New York years. That has as much to do with what the writers chose to focus on as it did any actions of his own. His fame, unfortunately, almost obscures his unparalleled skills as a baseball player. And if Reggie voicing his opinion (as he has been asked, as practically any retired ballplayer is asked, to do) has had an adverse effect on his "legacy" it's only in that people already have formed opinions about the man based on what they or someone else read at some point in the past about him and the fact that virtually anything that comes out of Jackson's mouth is going to be held up to that predetermined image.

Jackson is far from the only former player that feels strongly about applying harsh penalties for PED users. That what he perceives as best for the game might also coincide with his own "self-interest" doesn't make him wrong or superficial. The Founding Fathers of this country all had a large amount of self-interest invested in the success of the American Revolution. That doesn't make their support for their position a character flaw. Reggie Jackson isn't guilty of anything other than having an opinion. That's nothing to crucify the man for. If a lesser player - Willie Randolph or Chris Chambliss, for example - had said the same thing, no one would have batted an eye. Jackson is a well spoken, intelligent man, particularly standing out among atheletes in this country, and more people might recognize that and give some thought to what he says if only they could momentarily discard their preconceived notions and built-up prejudices of the man.

Los Bravos

07-24-2009, 04:26 PM

As time passes, specifics are forgotten and what remains are the remnants of the impression the paper-selling motifs left behind. "Everybody knew" Dick Allen was a clubhouse cancer though hardly anyone today could name a single incident that supports such an assertion. Probably not many more than that at the time could have anyway.

Reggie, as the most prominent player of the decade - even more so than Pete Rose - was a controversial figure, almost exclusively because of the New York years. That has as much to do with what the writers chose to focus on as it did any actions of his own. His fame, unfortunately, almost obscures his unparalleled skills as a baseball player. And if Reggie voicing his opinion (as he has been asked, as practically any retired ballplayer is asked, to do) has had an adverse effect on his "legacy" it's only in that people already have formed opinions about the man based on what they or someone else read at some point in the past about him and the fact that virtually anything that comes out of Jackson's mouth is going to be held up to that predetermined image.All too true, on both counts.

west coast orange and black

07-24-2009, 04:55 PM

whoisonit: During the coke hearings in the 80's John Milner, Mays teamate on the Mets, said that Mays drank some type of 'red juice' or something like that. Other than that instance with Milner i don't know of any other acusation against Mays using substances.

no need for words from a teammate; no need for a backdoor:
mays has said that he drank a concoction dubbed "red juice" and kept it in his locker. when reporters would ask about the contents mays simply shrugged "red juice," as matter-of-factly as answering "juice that is red." in other words, "none of your business."
it was already widely known that teammates had introduced mays to stimulants in both pill and liquid form.

west coast orange and black

07-24-2009, 04:58 PM

brad harris: And if Reggie voicing his opinion has had an adverse effect on his "legacy" it's only in that people already have formed opinions about the man based on what they or someone else read at some point in the past about him and the fact that virtually anything that comes out of Jackson's mouth is going to be held up to that predetermined image.

perhaps you could speak with some of jackson's neighbors down in monterey.
you just might change your mind on this one.

west coast orange and black

07-24-2009, 05:05 PM

boggs used the word "cheating" what, 7 or 8 times? then he mentioned "enhancers." then he framed these enhancers as "'roids."

i'm thinkin' that hundreds and hundreds of those who played before the widespread use of anabolic steroids could have only hoped to have been able to use 'em when testing was still not part of the regimen.
i'm thinkin' that players have always used what was available to 'em.
boggs comes off as bitter that he made "only" the money that he did.