The most amazing hitter today is......

[abolishthedh]

Ichiro, IMHO, because I like singles hitters. First, I followed Rod Carew, and I never thought I'd see another like him. About the time he wound down his career, along came.... Tony Gwynn. About the time Gwynn's career ended (2001?), along came Ichiro. Singles hitters are not just consistent, but also contrarian thinkers.

[rsuriyop]

Voted "other" (Joe Mauer).

[ipitch]

So far, Mr. Pujols is the most amazing hitter today. He's 2-2 with two HRs (through 3 innings). :)

But, I'd vote for him even if he was 0-4.

[willshad]

Pujols is a roid freak, Id take Ichiro any day.

[Sirmudgeon]

Say it ain't so, Alberto.

Pujols is the most amazing hitter I've seen this side of Barry Bonds. It looked pretty obvious that Bonds went from lean and fast to buffed and slow, and his head took on a different shape. Still, that guy could rake. As you all know, I'm a big fan of peer separation, and in a 'roid era, Bonds was the clear king of the swing. That he hit that many HRs choking up on the bat is a tribute to his bat speed and pitch recognition.

Like Bonds, Pujols scares the pants off every pitcher that he faces. He is now at 28-74-.323, and I still think he could win the Triple Crown. I also don't think he's doped, he's been the same size, apparently, with age adding a few pounds, since his time in the minors. He also has little lineup protection, Rasmus in front of him will be very good but isn't quite yet, Duncan behind him is solid but not great as a hitter. If I favored the IBB (which I do not), I'd intentionally walk Pujols with the bases loaded. Bonds had close to 200 walks a few years running, same sort of lineup around him.

Ichiro is a fine singles hitter in the Rose/Carew/Boggs/Gwynn, has some pop (like the others, could hit 30 dingers if he sacrificed some Ks), and steals bases. He doesn't have the best of OBPs, doesn't score as many runs as you would think (not really his fault, entirely), has a cannon arm, and is just a fine all-around player. Batting leadoff, HRs probably aren't the best option (notable exceptions in recent times might include Bobby Bonds when with the Giants, Brady Anderson during that "dope" year, and Alfonso Soriano). Maybe Rickey Henderson should be added to that list.

Still, this poll is about hitters, so I've gotta go with Pujols, all-around. Mauer is coming up, A-Rod is heating up, Texeira and Adrian Gonzalez and Justin Morneau and David Wright and Chase Utley, etc., we have some very fine all-around hitters. One thing that really separates Pujols- I think his HR-K ratio is even so far this year. Pretty impressive, DiMaggio used to have stats like that.

One last comparison- I can think of a couple of guys who might challenge Ichiro for the leadoff spot on a current All-Pro team, yet I cannot think of anyone who I'd want over Pujols in the 3-4 spot.

[plask_stirlac]

Joe Mauer is bigger than Pujols but smoother and catches. More amazing.

Ichiro is more precise than amazing. But how he doesn't get 50 doubles a year always baffles me... no power, really. I think he tried in 2005 but didn't do so well. Ryan Howard is more amazing, we're just biased by H/AB.

[baseball junkie]

If I were a general manager picking between these two players the choice would be incredibly simple: Pujols.

Reality, however, is not simple. I wonder if in five or ten years we will find out that the aforementioned player was on some type of designer- performance enhancing drug, hereto undetectable or not even tested for by MLB.

All I know is Ichiro racks like George Sisler, Zack Wheat, Tony Gwynn Sr. And although no fan can ever be certain again that any player is 100 percent clean, we can say with a greater degree of confidence that Ichiro is than Pujols. So, with much reluctance and sadness, because the game I love has been turned into an abomination, I selected Suzuki in the poll.

[ol' aches and pains]

Tough call...I finally went with Ichiro, as he's been my favorite player since he came into the league in 2001. Pujols is equally amazing in a different way, and Mauer may hit .400 someday, he's at .394 as I type this. We are very fortunate to have three hitters of this quality to debate about.

[Seattle1]

I voted for Pujols.











































Psyche! :laugh

[willshad]

There arent many all time type of great hitters around right now. Pujols is, provided he is roid free, but nobody else really pops up as being great, historically speaking.

[willshad]

Joe Mauer is bigger than Pujols but smoother and catches. More amazing.

Ichiro is more precise than amazing. But how he doesn't get 50 doubles a year always baffles me... no power, really. I think he tried in 2005 but didn't do so well. Ryan Howard is more amazing, we're just biased by H/AB.

Mauer also has little power (this year so far is probably a fluke), and is very streaky. Just watch his batting average plummet the next couple months. There really isnt a comparison.

[Bulldog19]

Albert by a long shot. He's not like most "power hitters" like Howard who strike out a bunch and hit home runs. Albert can hit the long-ball, he can hit doubles, he can hit singles, and he finds his way on base a lot! And many times when he does get out, it's a productive out-- not a strike out.

[dominik]

Joe Mauer is bigger than Pujols but smoother and catches. More amazing.

Ichiro is more precise than amazing. But how he doesn't get 50 doubles a year always baffles me... no power, really. I think he tried in 2005 but didn't do so well. Ryan Howard is more amazing, we're just biased by H/AB.

Ichiro has a great season and is one of the best players in the game. His power is also not that bad, he just hits it on the ground very often.

Of course his power is not great but he could hit 20+ homers easily(of course this would lower his BA/hits) if he would hit the ball in the air.

I think his power is still not bad when you consider that he only weighs 160 pounds or so. Of course he can't match the numbers of those 6"4 230 pound roid freaks.

That beeing said and that I love Ichiro, Albert is still the much better player. Aso very high average, huge power and better patience at the plate.

He's the nightmare of every pitcher.

Unfortunately Ichiro plays in a bum lineup and is the only man who hits in seattle. So of course he doesn't score a lot of runs.

Defensively both are good but Ichiro is in another league. Still doesn't compensate alberts hitting. Easily the best player after bonds.

[Mattingly]

Pujols is a roid freak, Id take Ichiro any day.
Is this based upon your thinking that anyone who's a great slugger must've taken steroids? Do you have any proof that he's used PEDs?

If Alex Rodriguez were healthy all season, I'd likely have taken him.

[dominik]

You would take a healthy Arod over Pujols as a hitter?

[Rich the Giants fan]

Pujols is a roid freak, Id take Ichiro any day.

In The Meaning of Ichiro, it is written that some suspected Ichiro took steroids in the winter prior to coming to the US. This was due to a disproportionate increase in size/muscle.

Most consider any suggestion that he ever used steroids to be hogwash and there is absolutely no proof (that we know of) that he ever did, yet it wouldn't surprise me at all if he ever had used them at one point or another.




Ichiro and Pujols are my two favorite players outside of the Giants, by the way.

[west coast orange and black]

willshad: Pujols is a roid freak, Id take Ichiro any day.

though i believe that the chance that pujols has used runs from *possible to likely* he can flat-out hit... and send scares to the pitcher while doing so.

"roid freak" - just what does that mean?
all too often it gets used/abused as does "clubhouse cancer."
every user is not a "freak."

[abolishthedh]

As many of you picked up, I'm sure, the list is shorter than it should be. I kept the list of specific names to two because I had the secondary agenda of finding out how people rated power and contact. The poll has gone as I suspected.

This is a unique time in recent history, since these two players have been dominant for 8 years and so many of their peers over this time have been outed for PEDs.

Each and every day I keep fingers crossed that Pujols remains clean, and that Ichiro does as well, I suppose. I don't know what to think of PED use....

[JDD]

Manny Manny Manny....

just Manny being Manny

[STLCards2]

though i believe that the chance that pujols has used runs from *possible to likely* "

Why - cause he is off to a great start? A couple of years ago (2007-1ST half of 2008), people were saying he must have been off of steroids because his power numbers were down. In fact some were already claiming that Albert was beginning his decline phase, and was no better anymore than John Olerud.

Once this season levels out, he will be around .330 and 45 home runs - the same he was at from 2003-2006 without hardly any steroid whispers (outside of the bogus Grimsley report and faulty Mitchel Report rumors.)

Albert's started off hot, and has gotten gradually better as his peak seasons have approached. He is about the same size as he was in college (210 to 230), and as far as we know has failed nothing. Nothing about his career arc screems steroid use. Of course this doesn't mean he isn't usinmg either.

If he isn't on the list of 102, there are two options:

1. He was using in 2001-2002, stopped before 2003 testing, and his numbers took off. Probability? Don't think so.

2. Has been using undetectable stuff while using God and little children with disabilities as alibies while declaring his innocence. Probability? The best bet so far - but what a crummy guy to use God and little kids from his foundation as an alibi. If this is true, there is more at stake than a cheating ballplayer - but a man who's entire percieved life existence is a farce...

http://www.pujolsfamilyfoundation.org/


If he is one of the 102...

1. He used in 2001-2003, got busted and stopped, but his numbers didn't decrease...they got better. This would reject the notion that steroids always increase everybody's numbers. Steroid head-hunters will certainly not want to see this one happen. If this is the case - the man has still had an incredible, clean 7 years of production - barely affected by steroid usage.

2. He is still using today despite the skeptics, rumors, tests, hypocritical S.I issues, and speeches in which he used God and little kids with disabilities to declare his innocents, etc. etc. etc. Probability? Not great but not impossible either.



I am definitely not naive enough to say there is no way Albert is using. But it cannot be for the sole reason that he is very, very good. Keep in mind, guys like Mays, Aaron, etc. were hitting .320 with 45-50 home runs back when parks were huge and offense was stifled. Why is it so hard to believe that there are a handful of great hitters who can get to 50 homeruns with small parks, juiced balls, cheese-it strike zones, body armor, and so forth today? Albert has done nothing so offensively outstanding that it stands outside of the typical realm of the greatest hitters of any era (using OPS+ as criteria). Heck, he still trails Frank Thomas in 190 OPS+ seasons (and OPS+ through 8 seasons), and his career offense through 9 years doesn't look that much out of line from that of Dick Allen and Johhny Mize's top 9 seasons. He is putting up nowhere near the numbers of Williams or Ruth or Bonds or Hornsby or Cobb (despite what the sensationalist St. Louis media wants people to think). His top OPS+ seasons are about the same as the top OPS+ seasons of Thome and Delgado- of course Alberts' secondary seasons are better than theirs, which is where the seperation comes. A few in every generation are all-time hitters...why not Albert?

Could Albert be using? Sure - but shouldn't we need more than being a great hitter?

And yes - I have fought for keeping speculation down for other players too, not just Albert. Without any evidence other than talent and adding on 15-20 pounds between ages 20-30, what we do on these sites is a step and a half short of slander, in my opinion.

[Augustin_"Gus"]

every user is not a "freak."

That is absolutely true. F.P. Santangelo took PED's and he was not a freak. Well, freakishly bad perhaps, but not a freak in the accepted sense of the expression.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Pujols is a roid freak, Id take Ichiro any day.

Ichiro is a roid freak, too. My proof is as good as yours.

[ol' aches and pains]

And yes - I have fought for keeping speculation down for other players too, not just Albert. Without any evidence other than talent and adding on 15-20 pounds between ages 20-30, what we do on these sites is a step and a half short of slander, in my opinion.

I have been guilty of this, specifically with Sammy Sosa. I compared pictures of how he looked in 1989-1990 with how he looked toward the end of his career, and assumed, correctly, that he was dirty. But Sosa was a skinny little guy who looked like you could knock the bat out of his hands with a decent fastball. By the end of his career, he looked like a different person. Even his head had grown about 1 1/2 hat sizes, and changed in shape.

I don't see anything close to that in Pujols, he looks pretty much the same now as he did at the beginning of his career, and any speculation that he's using is just that, speculation. I'm choosing to ignore it until I hear he failed a drug test.

[cardsfanatic]

Ichiro is a roid freak. I'd take Pujols, then Mauer anyday.

[cardsfanatic]

I can't believe people have actually picked Ichiro, either.

Pujols actually has a better batting average than Ichiro for their careers -- Ichiro's only shining grace -- and Pujols is literally 10x as good for power, getting on-base etc...

AND Albert strikes out less, too!

I guess we've found the Washington and Pittsburgh talent evaluators.

[Milt on Tilt]

I agree with you. Anyone who voted Ichiro has to actually look at the results instead of just responding with their gut instinct. This should be unaminous.

[powderblue]

I so want to say Mauer, but after watching Pujols put a spanking on my Twins this last week, I've got to stick with Pujols. He's just a big human being with an amazing swing and I don't see him falling off anytime soon. Mauer, however, can place a baseball off his bat better than anyone I've ever seen. You can see him aiming where he wants to put the ball. I haven't seen anyone so precise since maybe Tony Gwynn.

So... Pujols, Mauer, then Ichiro. In that order.

[Bennybosox]

I'm gonna have to go with Miguel Cabrera

[Joltin' Joe]

I voted Ichiro. :happy:

One thing I will say about Phat Albert is that he is remarkably consistent.

Take his Home/Road split for example...

Home: .336 .433 .630 1.063
Road: .332 .420 .628 1.048

....or his RHP/LHP split....

vs RHP: .331 .419 .624 1.043
vs LHP: .343 .449 .645 1.094

By month.....

Apr: .327 .442 .648 1.090
May: .326 .410 .609 1.019
Jun: .332 .427 .625 1.052
Jul: .336 .419 .620 1.039
Aug: .344 .424 .660 1.083
Sep: .341 .440 .613 1.052

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

Among active players, there's Pujols, then there's Manny (PEDs or not, he's a freak), then there's everyone else. I'll be very interested to see what Miguel Cabrera does when he's 29 or 30. Ichiro is very good at his craft (getting a lot of base hits), but he has no power and, more importantly, he doesn't draw walks (imagine what his OBP would be like if he did). High OBPs aren't just for sluggers who get pitched around - Wade Boggs, for example, regularly drew around 100 walks per season in his prime.

[StanTheMan]

Pujols' excellent baserunning and defense are often underrated as well. If you look at the very pedestrian thresholds of .300 avg 100 RBI 30 HR and 100 runs scored no player in the history of MLB began his career breaching all four of those benchmarks more than two consecutive season right out of the gate.

Pujols did it for his first 6.... and even then he was only 1 run scored from extending said streak to a monster 8, which would be 4 times longer than any other player ever accomplished.

VORP and BABPIB and all that jazz is fine.. but on a very basic level, he's off to the greatest start of any player of All-Time... and he destroys those numbers above as well