If Mazeroski doesn't hit that homerun...

[RubeBaker]

If Maz doesn't hit that game 7, series ending home run in 1960, does he make it to the Hall of Fame?

[Francoeurstein]

Of course, a famous home run does not give you a ticket to the hall of fame. Heck, I'm sure it doesn't even go on your resume for the voters. Trust me if he was in for the homer then why aren't Bobby Thompson, Joe Carter, Bucky Dent, and friends in the hall as well? Mazeroski was an average hitter with a terrific glove and THAT was his ticket to the hall of fame not a timely long ball. No wonder you are a D+ statistics student! Haha, only kidding.

-Brandon :D

[jjpm74]

He shouldn't be in either way, so no.

[RubeBaker]

. No wonder you are a D+ statistics student! Haha, only kidding.

Hey, hey, hey... FORMER D+ stats student :hissyfit:

All good man.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Probablly not. There are strong hints he had some real friends on the VC that eventually fuelled his campaign enough to get elected.

Nice magazine he put his name to, though.

[Brooklyn]

Of course, a famous home run does not give you a ticket to the hall of fame. Heck, I'm sure it doesn't even go on your resume for the voters. Trust me if he was in for the homer then why aren't Bobby Thompson, Gary Carter, Bucky Dent, and friends in the hall as well? Mazeroski was an average hitter with a terrific glove and THAT was his ticket to the hall of fame not a timely long ball. No wonder you are a D+ statistics student! Haha, only kidding.

-Brandon :D

Gary Carter is in the HOF

He shouldn't be in either way, so no.

Exactly.

[KCGHOST]

I really have no idea if the HR helped his case or not. In either event it was an abysmal choice.

[Brad Harris]

He is better remembered for that homerun than for his fieldwork. All said, I'm sure that home run was a part of the argument for his induction when the old VC tossed his name into the discussion. It might have even been a tipping point for at least one voter. No way to know for sure. Regardless, as has already been pointed out, he shouldn't have been elected.

[Cougar]

Of course, a famous home run does not give you a ticket to the hall of fame. Heck, I'm sure it doesn't even go on your resume for the voters. Trust me if he was in for the homer then why aren't Bobby Thompson, Gary Carter, Bucky Dent, and friends in the hall as well? Mazeroski was an average hitter with a terrific glove and THAT was his ticket to the hall of fame not a timely long ball. No wonder you are a D+ statistics student! Haha, only kidding.

-Brandon :D

You mean Joe Carter. Who will stay on the HOF radar a little longer than he would have otherwise because of that home run.

[RubeBaker]

Of course, a famous home run does not give you a ticket to the hall of fame. Heck, I'm sure it doesn't even go on your resume for the voters. Trust me if he was in for the homer then why aren't Bobby Thompson, Gary Carter, Bucky Dent, and friends in the hall as well? Mazeroski was an average hitter with a terrific glove and THAT was his ticket to the hall of fame not a timely long ball. No wonder you are a D+ statistics student! Haha, only kidding.

-Brandon :D

I was headed to sleep last time I saw this post, so now I will in answer in kind. And I am assuming you mean Joe Carter not Gary Carter.

Maz was an excellent defensive second baseman, so he always had that going for him. The others were good for sure, but none of them had any great arguments for the hall.

Plus, Maz's homer won game 7 of the World Series. Thompson's was pennant clinching, while extremely clutch, arguably not as important as a game 7 world series homer. Dent's home run was a huge momentum switch, but not a game winner. It wasn't in the world series either. I doubt his would even be as a famous as it is had it not happened in the context of such a heated rivalry.

Carter is a wildcard here. He is still eligible for the hall by the writers, but remember it took Maz decades before the VC eventually voted him in. If Carter make it in though, I think it'll be time to make a legitimate argument to rip plaques off the wall.

[Cougar]

Frankly, I have no problem with arguably the greatest defensive player of all time being in Cooperstown, and the Game 7 HR only makes me feel better about it.

Joe Carter has a legitimate counting stats argument -- he got 396 HR and 1445 RBI cleanly, largely doing it with tremendous durability that kept him in the lineup hitting #3 or #4 for good-to-great teams for a lengthy career (that could have been longer; he declined several contract offers in the winter of 1999). He also stole 231 bases at a 78% clip and showed versatility in playing four different positions (all OF spots and 1b) reasonably well.

The argument against him is his BA and OBP (.259/.306); he made a ton of outs. Holding the counting stat of outs against him is penalizing him for hardly ever missing a game, but the percentages are very disheartening, and disqualifying in the eyes of many.

The counter-argument is that despite the poor percentages, he helped you win many other ways -- he had power when he did hit it, speed on the base paths, and utility in the field. Plus, people point to the RBI: 100+ in 10 of 12 seasons in his prime; or 98+ in 11 of 12 if one rejects round numbered standards. It makes a case that Carter was clutch; the WS winning HR in 1993 only boosts that the "clutch" case.

[SHOELESSJOE3]

I was headed to sleep last time I saw this post, so now I will in answer in kind. And I am assuming you mean Joe Carter not Gary Carter.

Maz was an excellent defensive second baseman, so he always had that going for him. The others were good for sure, but none of them had any great arguments for the hall.

Plus, Maz's homer won game 7 of the World Series. Thompson's was pennant clinching, while extremely clutch, arguably not as important as a game 7 world series homer. Dent's home run was a huge momentum switch, but not a game winner. It wasn't in the world series either. I doubt his would even be as a famous as it is had it not happened in the context of such a heated rivalry.

Carter is a wildcard here. He is still eligible for the hall by the writers, but remember it took Maz decades before the VC eventually voted him in. If Carter make it in though, I think it'll be time to make a legitimate argument to rip plaques off the wall.

I don't see why one home run, even the winning homer in game 7 WS, should swing the balance of any player into the HOF. If and I say if that was the case, should not make the difference.

[Francoeurstein]

Gary Carter is in the HOF



Exactly.

I meant Joe. :D

[elpablo302]

If Mazeroski had not hit that home run...would Casey Stegel been fired by the Yankees after 1960?

[Cougar]

If Mazeroski had not hit that home run...would Casey Stegel been fired by the Yankees after 1960?

Probably not. Which means he never manages the Mets, and wins three more WS with the Yankees (1960, 61, 62). Also, Ralph Houk's career never gets off the ground.

Quite a counterfactual.

[SamtheBravesFan]

I think he deserves to be elected because he's the greatest fielding second baseman in all of baseball history. However, I also believe that without that World Series-winning home run, he doesn't get in.

[PVNICK]

Probably not. Which means he never manages the Mets, and wins three more WS with the Yankees (1960, 61, 62). Also, Ralph Houk's career never gets off the ground.

Quite a counterfactual.
Actually, Dick Groat batted 2nd while Maz batted 8th, so if someone got on it could have been Groat hitting the HR and squeaking into the HOF. So really Maz just screwed Groat out of immortality.

[ol' aches and pains]

Actually, Dick Groat batted 2nd while Maz batted 8th, so if someone got on it could have been Groat hitting the HR and squeaking into the HOF. So really Maz just screwed Groat out of immortality.

Assuming Groat hits the home run, which is assuming a lot.

[RubeBaker]

Actually, Dick Groat batted 2nd while Maz batted 8th, so if someone got on it could have been Groat hitting the HR and squeaking into the HOF. So really Maz just screwed Groat out of immortality.

Quite the stretch there, assuming that #1) Pittsburgh doesn't go down 1-2-3, and 2) that Groat does indeed hit a home run.

I don't see a teammate who happens to be the right player at the right time can "screw" another teammate over.

[Fuzzy Bear]

Maz isn't in because of his famous HR. He's in because he has been touted as the greatest defensive second baseman of all time. Indeed, some have touted Maz as the greatest defensive player of all time at ANY position.

It is that reputation that kept his candidacy alive. Whether that makes him a good pick or not, I don't know. Defensive skill is more subjective than offensive skill, so who's to say. On the other hand, if Maz is in, why not Willie Randolph and Frank White?

Another reason Maz is in is because he plays a position that features the most subjective basis for selection/rejection than any other position. Second base has the largest HOF gray area of any position, period. There are a whole slew of second baseman outside the HOF that stand in between the worst second basemen in the HOF and the best second basemen in the HOF.