Guess the Remaining 102

[sturg1dj]

I am proposing a contest. In this contest you can list up to 102 players that you think will be on the list of players who failed a drug test in 2003.

Person with the most correct guessing wins!


any takers?

[STLCards2]

I am proposing a contest. In this contest you can list up to 102 players that you think will be on the list of players who failed a drug test in 2003.

Person with the most correct guessing wins!


any takers?

You know some people will take this seriously and try it, right? Or do you want them too in order to laugh at their success rate? That, I would like to see.

Either way - should be easy. List anybody who exhibits any of the following:

1. has played well past the age of 30
2. is Dominican
3. has gotten larger between ages 20 and 40
4. is not a middle infielder or non-power pitcher
5. has a single outlier in production during their career
6. you don't like personally or is better than your favorite player
7. has played for Tony Larussa (nevermind that compared to Tony, almost twice as many confirmed or heavily accused users played for choir-boy and corporate pitchman, Joe Torre)

and most damning of all...

8. is good:eek:

If your list exceeds 102 names, just cross off the players who were/are on your favorite team.

[EdTarbusz]

I would throw the names of every Major League player from 2003 in a hat and pull out 102 names.

[Rich the Giants fan]

I still can't believe 104 players tested positive when they KNEW they were going to be tested. How many more were smart enough to hold off on their regimen until after testing was done?

And by the way, there are 30 Major League teams, with 40-man rosters. That's 1,200 players plus others that were called up and DFAd during the year.

To get 104 names using 5% as a baseline, you would have needed to test roughly 2,000 players. To achieve that number of positives using 7%, it would have been around 1,500. Were there really 300-800 extra players tested that year, or did someone monkey around with the numbers?

[sturg1dj]

You know some people will take this seriously and try it, right? Or do you want them too in order to laugh at their success rate? That, I would like to see.

Either way - should be easy. List anybody who exhibits any of the following:

1. has played well past the age of 30
2. is Dominican
3. has gotten larger between ages 20 and 40
4. is not a middle infielder or non-power pitcher
5. has a single outlier in production during their career
6. you don't like personally or is better than your favorite player
7. has played for Tony Larussa (nevermind that compared to Tony, almost twice as many confirmed or heavily accused users played for choir-boy and corporate pitchman, Joe Torre)

and most damning of all...

8. is good:eek:

If your list exceeds 102 names, just cross off the players who were/are on your favorite team.

I have the beginnings of a list and it is nowhere near 102 people because

1) Most of the players I listed were starts or solid major leaguers (I am assuming there were a bunch of no-namers who failed)

2) I had very few pitchers because it is harder to tell.




Here is my list

Name 2003 Team
Known
1 Alex Rodruiguez Texas
2 Sammy Sosa Cubs

Guesses
3 Troy Glaus Anaheim
4 Tim Salmon Anaheim
5 Jeff Conine Baltimore
6 Brian Roberts Baltimore
7 Sidney Ponson Baltimore
8 B.J. Surhoff Baltimore
9 Manny Ramirez Boston
10 David Ortiz Boston
11 Jeremy Giambi Boston
12 Trot Nixon Boston
13 Gabe Kapler Boston
14 Paul Konerko Chicago
15 Bartolo Colon Chicago
16 Travis Hafner Cleveland
17 Alex Sanchez Detroit
18 Bobby Higginson Detroit
19 Dmitri Young Detroit
20 Mike Sweeny Kansas City
21 Jason Giambi New York
22 Karim Garcia New York
23 Roger Clemens New York
24 Andy Pettite New York
25 Miguel Tejada Oakland
26 Erubial Durazo Oakland
27 Bret Boone Seattle
28 Mike Cameron Seattle
29 Edgar Martinez Seattle
30 Shane Spencer Texas
31 Juan Gonzalez Texas
32 Rafael Palmero Texas
33 Luis Gonzalez Arizona
34 Steve Finley Arizona
35 Matt Williams Arizona
36 Gary Sheffield Atlanta
37 Julio Franco Atlanta
38 Eric Karros Cubs
39 Moises Alou Cubs
40 Sean Casey Reds
41 Barry Larkin Reds
42 Greg Vaughn Colorado
43 Ivan Rodriguez Marlins
44 Mike Lowell Marlins
45 Jeff Bagwell Astros
46 Jeff Kent Astros
47 Richard Hidalgo Astros
48 Morgan Ensberg Astros
49 Adrian Beltre Dodgers
50 Jeromy Burnitz Dodgers
51 Shawn Green dodgers
52 Eric Young Brewers
53 Wes Helms Brewers
54 Geoff Jenkins Brewers
55 Brad Wilkerson Expos
56 Todd Zeile Expos
57 Mike Piazza Mets
58 Mo Vaughn Mets
59 Mike Lieberthal Phillies
60 Jim Thome Phillies
61 Placido Polanco Phillies
62 David Bell Phillies
63 Randall Simon Pirates
64 Solomon Torres Pirates
65 Ryan Klesko Padres
66 Phil Nevin Padres
67 Marquis Grissom Giants
68 Rich Aurillia Giants
69 Benito Santiago Giants
70 Egardo Alfonzo Giants
71 Andres Galarraga Giants
72 Jim Edmonds Cards
73 JD Drew Cards
74 Jay Bell Mets






you will notice no Barry Bonds. Its not that I don't think Bonds never used, I just believe if he were on the list we would have known before we knew A-Rod or Sosa.


Also, I know that Jeff Kent railed againt PED's...but I still think he used.

[Ace Venom]

If everyone you guessed is on that list, I'd have to say that would turn MLB upside down. Perhaps there's good reason for the trickle because MLB would lose a lot of money if the bandage was ripped off rather than peeled off like it has been with the revelation of A-Rod and Say It Ain't Sosa. I noted that Sosa probably wasn't on the list because his name would have been leaked with A-Rod's, but this was an assumption that you didn't have a large number of big names on the list. I think it's entirely possible that Bonds is on that list and ditto for Palmeiro and Clemens. If the Feds go after Sosa for perjury, you can bet we'll know that Palmeiro and Clemens tested positive in 2003.

[sturg1dj]

even though that is my list I am sure not all of those players are actually on it because then that would mean there are very few pitchers and borderline players on the list which cannot be true.

[ol' aches and pains]

I sure hope you're wrong about Jim Thome. I'd be surprised if he was on the list, but his power numbers did spike in 2001, so I guess anything's possible.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Omar Vizquel. Look at the power spike he had in '02, followed by a knee injury.

[redban]

55 Brad Wilkerson Expos
56 Todd Zeile Expos
57 Mike Piazza Mets
58 Mo Vaughn Mets
59 Mike Lieberthal Phillies
60 Jim Thome Phillies


No. :thumbsdown:

And I also doubt Thome used.
.
.
.
.
Ooh, and Piazza was injured in 2003. If he was injured the entire year, then doesn't that mean it's impossible for his name to be there? Unless they went directly to his house to get him tested.

[Rich the Giants fan]

No. :thumbsdown:

And I also doubt Thome used.
.
.
.
.
Ooh, and Piazza was injured in 2003. If he was injured the entire year, then doesn't that mean it's impossible for his name to be there? Unless they went directly to his house to get him tested.

If he was on a 40-man roster (including the 60-day DL), he'd have been tested.

And there isn't anyone who would surprise me, especially Piazza.

[sturg1dj]

I don't know how Piazza could surprise anyone. Basically he was the last player pick in his draft which was done as a favor to his father...and he became the greatest hitting catcher ever.

[OleMissCub]

good list Sturjd. I would have had Jose Guillen on there though. He hit 31 HR in 2003 and his previous avg per 162 was just 14.

[NineWorldSeries]

No way Sean Casey was juicing.

[Bennybosox]

I have to include both Giles brothers

[RubeBaker]

Mo Vaughn retired in 2003. He may have been one of the juicers, but I doubt he tested positive during the testing in question.

[Ace Venom]

Mo Vaughn retired in 2003. He may have been one of the juicers, but I doubt he tested positive during the testing in question.

He was listed in the Mitchell Report.

[DodgerBlue8188]

I love Furcal but what about him? He's got a great arm and a lot of power for his size.

[sturg1dj]

No way Sean Casey was juicing.

look at his power numbers. He would be a great guy to have on the list because it would show people that its not a good vs. evil type thing because everyone likes the guy.

[Captain Cold Nose]

look at his power numbers. He would be a great guy to have on the list because it would show people that its not a good vs. evil type thing because everyone likes the guy.

There's always Wally Joyner.

[Ace Venom]

Wally Joyner also didn't play after 2001. It would be a bit hard for him to show up on the 2003 list.

[cardsfanatic]

Chipper Jones
Ichiro Suzuki
Greg Maddux
Ken Griffey Jr.
Frank Thomas
and...
Neifi Perez

Basically, so everyone can shut up with their presumed innocence of the top five just because they like then, followed directly by their presumed _guilt_ of everyone else not one of those five players and Neifi Perez, simply because his inclusion would once and for all prove that PED's aren't baseball performance in a syringe.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Chipper Jones
Ichiro Suzuki
Greg Maddux
Ken Griffey Jr.
Frank Thomas
and...
Neifi Perez

Basically, so everyone can shut up with their presumed innocence of the top five just because they like then, followed directly by their presumed _guilt_ of everyone else not one of those five players and Neifi Perez, simply because his inclusion would once and for all prove that PED's aren't baseball performance in a syringe.

As to Ichiro, one of my favorite players, there were whispers when he came over, due to an increase in size over the winter, that he used. This rumor is mentioned in the book The Meaning of Ichiro, a very good read.

As to Neifi, wouldn't Matt Lawton, Manny Alexander and Alex Sanchez, not to mention the numerous minor leaguers who never made it despite juicing, already provide this proof?

[GiambiJuice]

I'm submit the names Vernon wells and Melvin Mora.

[Captain Cold Nose]

Wally Joyner also didn't play after 2001. It would be a bit hard for him to show up on the 2003 list.

Yes, but Sean Casey would have company among the good guys if he himself was on the 2003 list. He wouldn't be the first well-liked player to be implicated with steroids. Joyner was as popular as they come.

[ol' aches and pains]

Yes, but Sean Casey would have company among the good guys if he himself was on the 2003 list. He wouldn't be the first well-liked player to be implicated with steroids. Joyner was as popular as they come.

Same scenario for Thome. His power numbers spiked dramatically for a few years beginning in 2001, so there's that nagging little suspicion in the back of my mind.

But it would be so out of character for Thome. He seems to be a genuinely great guy, and such and old school type player. You could drop him into those old "Home Run Derby" shows from 50 years ago, and he wouldn't look or sound the least bit out of place.

So far, the names that have come out have not surprised me, and there are a lot more being speculated about that wouldn't surprise me either. But if Thome, Ichiro, or Greg Maddux are implicated, I will be surprised, and to the extent that a lifelong cynic can be disappointed, I'll be disappointed, too.

[sturg1dj]

Same scenario for Thome. His power numbers spiked dramatically for a few years beginning in 2001, so there's that nagging little suspicion in the back of my mind.

But it would be so out of character for Thome. He seems to be a genuinely great guy, and such and old school type player. You could drop him into those old "Home Run Derby" shows from 50 years ago, and he wouldn't look or sound the least bit out of place.

So far, the names that have come out have not surprised me, and there are a lot more being speculated about that wouldn't surprise me either. But if Thome, Ichiro, or Greg Maddux are implicated, I will be surprised, and to the extent that a lifelong cynic can be disappointed, I'll be disappointed, too.


I think what needs to go away is the idea that it is out of character for good guys to use steroids.

[Ace Venom]

It's still not like they killed anyone. Even knowing who was on the list should raise more questions.

1) How long did they use?
2) When did they start?

The list goes on and on. The blanket assumption, one where I'll admit guilt, is that the person spent the entire career taking steroids. We honestly can't know that for sure beyond physical evidence or a personal admission. It's why the whole debate of whether or not a player was a great player before steroids is extremely questionable at best.

[NJMetfan4life]

Andruw Jones
Richie Sexon
Javier Lopez
Preston Wilson
Jim Thome
Woody Williams
Russ Ortiz
Mark Prior
Bartolo Colon
Kevin Brown
Dontrelle Willis

[downstairs]

No way I'm doing that much work, but one thing you have to remember:

The sheer majority of the list is probably very low-end players that did not exhibit increases in their numbers. Steroids happened to work magic for A-rod, Sammy, Bonds. But most of the players, even with steroids, remained bench warmers.

Pablo Ozuna just got caught a week or so ago! Dude's gotta fire his dealer if those were the results he was getting!

[deadball-era-rules]

I'd throw in Curt Schilling and Todd Helton. I never trusted either of them.

[BoweryBoys]

I think what needs to go away is the idea that it is out of character for good guys to use steroids.

I'd go even one further and state that character should have nothing to do with the issue anyway. As I see it none of us really knows if someone is really a good person or a bad person, whether they take steroids or not. Why should taking steroids automatically make one a bad person? I don't think character, or lack thereof, has much to do with the issue.

I think a better issue should be if steroids helped/help some of these guys appear to be better players then they really are, would have been otherwise without steroid use. I'm sure we will never know for certain but one can make a point of why use steroids unless the intention is that you at least think they make, will make, you better.

To me it isn't about character, or maybe possible lack of, or hating a player(s). It's about all the huge numbers some guys have put up in recent years and are they really that great as players? I think that is a valid issue and many modern era fans have a right to be skeptical. If guy is proven as a user, especially if it can be proved he used for a longtime, then fans have a right to think the guy is a fraud to a certain degree but not to automatically assume the guy is a bad person. Just a guy who wanted to appear greater then he really was perhaps?

[sturg1dj]

I'd throw in Curt Schilling and Todd Helton. I never trusted either of them.

oh, Schilling would be an amazing person to have on the list. As it is I think he is already a hypocrite since he is so vocal against steroids yet he won a ring in Arizona with a team filled with steroids users.

I'd go even one further and state that character should have nothing to do with the issue anyway. As I see it none of us really knows if someone is really a good person or a bad person, whether they take steroids or not. Why should taking steroids automatically make one a bad person? I don't think character, or lack thereof, has much to do with the issue.

I think a better issue should be if steroids helped/help some of these guys appear to be better players then they really are, would have been otherwise without steroid use. I'm sure we will never know for certain but one can make a point of why use steroids unless the intention is that you at least think they make, will make, you better.

To me it isn't about character, or maybe possible lack of, or hating a player(s). It's about all the huge numbers some guys have put up in recent years and are they really that great as players? I think that is a valid issue and many modern era fans have a right to be skeptical. If guy is proven as a user, especially if it can be proved he used for a longtime, then fans have a right to think the guy is a fraud to a certain degree but not to automatically assume the guy is a bad person. Just a guy who wanted to appear greater then he really was perhaps?

even if there are chemicals added its not like they didn't swing or its not their body. Its not like they are now cyborgs, they are just players with the physical gifts that God did not give them. regardless of what they took they were that good that season against those other players.

[White Knight]

Gabe Kapler, because it's almost impossible to look like this without steroids.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_gZ18TgcVF2w/RrnsstCpfCI/AAAAAAAAAi0/_bRrTejGmRU/s320/kapler.bmp

http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/84/l_190a4a2d205941b5809a6c9f9505c02a.jpg

[BoweryBoys]

oh, Schilling would be an amazing person to have on the list. As it is I think he is already a hypocrite since he is so vocal against steroids yet he won a ring in Arizona with a team filled with steroids users.



even if there are chemicals added its not like they didn't swing or its not their body. Its not like they are now cyborgs, they are just players with the physical gifts that God did not give them. regardless of what they took they were that good that season against those other players.

This is why I feel that the real focus on this issue should be study towards determining if steroid use actually helps a ballplayer do the following...
1- put up monster numbers (seasons) he would not have had otherwise.
2- play at a productive/higher level for longer (Career) throughout his career then he would have otherwise.
If these things can be proven in the affirmative then I think steroid use should be considered as having defrauded the game's historical record and those proven as users not accorded the same respect and admiration as non-using greats, even denial of HOF.

Now there does seem to be some good indication that they do help with quicker recovery from injury, help one work out longer and harder, gain more benefit from work outs, so there is some reason to believe there is benefit in reason for use number two that may be effecting the game and the historical record and allowing guys to put up higher numbers they otherwise may not have put up. To me intent must also be taken into consideration a great deal. I just don't feel that any player will take such substances unless they think the benefit is that they will play better and for much longer then they otherwise would be able to. Whether the substances actualy allow that or not there still is an intent to cheat. This is why, at least me as one fan, loses all respect and admiration for any player proven to have used steroids regardless of level of natural talent, they still have to swing the bat, etc.

[sturg1dj]

This is why I feel that the real focus on this issue should be study towards determining if steroid use actually helps a ballplayer do the following...
1- put up monster numbers (seasons) he would not have had otherwise.
2- play at a productive/higher level for longer (Career) throughout his career then he would have otherwise.
If these things can be proven in the affirmative then I think steroid use should be considered as having defrauded the game's historical record and those proven as users not accorded the same respect and admiration as non-using greats, even denial of HOF.

Now there does seem to be some good indication that they do help with quicker recovery from injury, help one work out longer and harder, gain more benefit from work outs, so there is some reason to believe there is benefit in reason for use number two that may be effecting the game and the historical record and allowing guys to put up higher numbers they otherwise may not have put up. To me intent must also be taken into consideration a great deal. I just don't feel that any player will take such substances unless they think the benefit is that they will play better and for much longer then they otherwise would be able to. Whether the substances actualy allow that or not there still is an intent to cheat. This is why, at least me as one fan, loses all respect and admiration for any player proven to have used steroids regardless of level of natural talent, they still have to swing the bat, etc.



this is pretty radical thinking, but steroids could be what evens the playing field in baseball. Right now in baseball and in all realms of life you are told if you work hard enough you can achieve anything...even though must of us know that this isn't necessarily the case. We all could use a helping hand, or a good starting spot. Some people have better genetics than others, which gives them the leg up to succeed in sports...regardless of drive.

Of course I am not naive enough to think that only average players are using, I mean this is only really an issue because of the big players who used. What I am saying is I want to reward hard work, but for some people they hit a wall before others.

[MyDogSparty]

I saw this "RUMORED" list on the Internet today. I don't know if it's accurate or not...

1.Nomar Garciaparra
2.Manny Ramirez
3.Johnny Damon
4.Trot Nixon
5.David Ortiz
6.Shea Hillenbrand
7.Derek Lowe
8.Pedro Martinez
9.Brian Roberts
10.Jay Gibbons
11.Melvin Mora
12.Jerry Hairston
13.Jason Giambi
14.Alfonso Soriano
15.Raul Mondesi
16. Aaron Boone
17.Andy Pettitte
18.Jose Contreras
19.Roger Clemens
20.Carlos Delgado
21.Vernon Wells
22.Frank Catalanotto
23.Kenny Rogers
24.Magglio Ordonez
25.Sandy Alomar
26.Bartolo Colon
27.Brent Abernathy
28.Jose Lima
29.Milton Bradley
30.Casey Blake
31.Danys Baez
32.Craig Monroe
33.Dmitri Young
34.Alex Sanchez
35.Eric Chavez
36.Miguel Tejada
37.Eric Byrnes
38.Jose Guillen
39.Keith Foulke
40.Ricardo Rincon
41.Bret Boone
42.Mike Cameron
43.Randy Winn
44.Ryan Franklin
45.Freddy Garcia
46.Rafael Soriano
47.Scott Spiezio
48.Troy Glaus
49.Francisco Rodriguez
50.Ben Weber
51.Alex Rodriguez
52.Juan Gonzalez
53.Rafael Palmeiro
54.Carl Everett
55.Javy Lopez
56.Gary Sheffield
57.Mike Hampton
58.Ivan Rodriguez
59.Derrek Lee
60.Bobby Abreu
61.Terry Adams
62.Fernando Tatis
63.Livan Hernandez
64.Hector Almonte
65.Tony Armas
66.Dan Smith
67.Roberto Alomar
68.Cliff Floyd
69.Roger Cedeno
70.Jeromy Burnitz
71.Moises Alou
72.Sammy Sosa
73.Corey Patterson
74.Carlos Zambrano
75.Mark Prior
76.Kerry Wood
77.Matt Clement
78.Antonio Alfonseca
79.Juan Cruz
80.Aramis Ramirez
81.Craig Wilson
82.Kris Benson
83.Richie Sexson
84.Geoff Jenkins
85.Valerio de los Santos
86.Benito Santiago
87.Rich Aurilia
88.Barry Bonds
89.Andres Galarraga
90.Jason Schmidt
91.Felix Rodriguez
92.Jason Christiansen
93.Matt Herges
94.Paul Lo Duca
95.Shawn Green
96.Jeromy Burnitz
97.Adrian Beltre
98.Eric Gagne
99.Guillermo Mota
100.Luis Gonzalez
101.Todd Helton
102.Ryan Klesko
103.Gary Matthews
104.Oliver Perez

[sturg1dj]

I saw this "RUMORED" list on the Internet today. I don't know if it's accurate or not...

1.Nomar Garciaparra
2.Manny Ramirez
3.Johnny Damon
4.Trot Nixon
5.David Ortiz
6.Shea Hillenbrand
7.Derek Lowe
8.Pedro Martinez
9.Brian Roberts
10.Jay Gibbons
11.Melvin Mora
12.Jerry Hairston
13.Jason Giambi
14.Alfonso Soriano
15.Raul Mondesi
16. Aaron Boone
17.Andy Pettitte
18.Jose Contreras
19.Roger Clemens
20.Carlos Delgado
21.Vernon Wells
22.Frank Catalanotto
23.Kenny Rogers
24.Magglio Ordonez
25.Sandy Alomar
26.Bartolo Colon
27.Brent Abernathy
28.Jose Lima
29.Milton Bradley
30.Casey Blake
31.Danys Baez
32.Craig Monroe
33.Dmitri Young
34.Alex Sanchez
35.Eric Chavez
36.Miguel Tejada
37.Eric Byrnes
38.Jose Guillen
39.Keith Foulke
40.Ricardo Rincon
41.Bret Boone
42.Mike Cameron
43.Randy Winn
44.Ryan Franklin
45.Freddy Garcia
46.Rafael Soriano
47.Scott Spiezio
48.Troy Glaus
49.Francisco Rodriguez
50.Ben Weber
51.Alex Rodriguez
52.Juan Gonzalez
53.Rafael Palmeiro
54.Carl Everett
55.Javy Lopez
56.Gary Sheffield
57.Mike Hampton
58.Ivan Rodriguez
59.Derrek Lee
60.Bobby Abreu
61.Terry Adams
62.Fernando Tatis
63.Livan Hernandez
64.Hector Almonte
65.Tony Armas
66.Dan Smith
67.Roberto Alomar
68.Cliff Floyd
69.Roger Cedeno
70.Jeromy Burnitz
71.Moises Alou
72.Sammy Sosa
73.Corey Patterson
74.Carlos Zambrano
75.Mark Prior
76.Kerry Wood
77.Matt Clement
78.Antonio Alfonseca
79.Juan Cruz
80.Aramis Ramirez
81.Craig Wilson
82.Kris Benson
83.Richie Sexson
84.Geoff Jenkins
85.Valerio de los Santos
86.Benito Santiago
87.Rich Aurilia
88.Barry Bonds
89.Andres Galarraga
90.Jason Schmidt
91.Felix Rodriguez
92.Jason Christiansen
93.Matt Herges
94.Paul Lo Duca
95.Shawn Green
96.Jeromy Burnitz
97.Adrian Beltre
98.Eric Gagne
99.Guillermo Mota
100.Luis Gonzalez
101.Todd Helton
102.Ryan Klesko
103.Gary Matthews
104.Oliver Perez

wow, if this were the list it would truly be mind blowing. where on earth did you find this?



and for those who believe "good guys don't use" looks like there are quite a few "good guys"

[DownUnderDodger]

I noticed sturg1dj had Shawn Green on his list (he was also on the "rumoured list").
Green had a career year in 2001, batting .297 (.331 with runners in scoring position) with a .598 slugging percentage (a career best), 49 home runs (a career best), 121 runs (7th in the league), 125 RBIs (a career best), 370 total bases (5th in the league), and 20 stolen bases. His 49 home runs were a Dodgers single-season record. He started off slowly in 2002, but turned things around with a record-setting power display. However in 2003, he struggled with his power and RBI production. He had problems with tendinitis in his left shoulder, which limited him to a 19 home runs and 85 RBIs batting .281.
His power improved in 2004.
Does the suggestion he used in 2003 have anything to do with treatment for his tendonitis or is the suggestion he may have been using from 2001 thru 2003?

[MyDogSparty]

wow, if this were the list it would truly be mind blowing. where on earth did you find this? and for those who believe "good guys don't use" looks like there are quite a few "good guys"

Pick your favorite Internet search engine and look for "rumored 2003 steroid list" <without the quotes>

[Ace Venom]

wow, if this were the list it would truly be mind blowing. where on earth did you find this?

I saw the site and trust me on this. If espn.com isn't reporting this, it's likely not legit. I saw this at a blog and all I can say is that we don't need to turn this site into TMZ.

[White Knight]

I saw the site and trust me on this. If espn.com isn't reporting this, it's likely not legit. I saw this at a blog and all I can say is that we don't need to turn this site into TMZ.

TMZ was the first to report MJ's death, just saying....:)

[nymdan]

The one thing that someone on Mets Refugees (http://www.metsrefugees.com/) pointed out that makes it suspicious is that considering they tested the entire 40 man rosters, there are very few unrecognizable names on there.

[chrispw1]

I agree that sometimes the whole good guys or bad guys using thing can be annoying. That is one of the main reasons why I feel Luis Gonzalez has escaped public speculation from the media for his big 57 home run season in 2001 since many consider him to be the ultimate super-nice guy.

[STLCards2]

The one thing that someone on Mets Refugees (http://www.metsrefugees.com/) pointed out that makes it suspicious is that considering they tested the entire 40 man rosters, there are very few unrecognizable names on there.

Exactly- which is why the whole thing is bogus. A majority of guys who have been officialy busted have been nobodies and journeymen so far.

[RationalNYYfan]

I don't bother reading any list like that. It's from a blog first of all, and the guy doesn't even say where the list came from. He just says it 'surfaced' or 'popped up' or whatever.