1949 Best of Baseball Election

[jalbright]

This is our fourteenth election in this project. The entire rules follow.

This election will run through 11:59:59 PM EDT June 19, 2009.

The prior election, and the ballots of the 1948 voters, are in this thread (http://baseball-fever.com/showthread.php?t=90429)

[jalbright]

Rules

1) All BBF users in good standing may participate. However, if there is more than one vote being cast from any one computer or IP, it must be cleared in advance. Should there be unannounced multiple votes from the same IP, I will investigate the circumstances, and all user names involved may be barred from this project as a result, and all but one of the multiple usernames permanently banned from the site. I only anticipate exceptions for family members living in the same home, but I will entertain requests on other bases. Please note that I and the other mods who participate in the project have the capability of determining the IP from which posts come, and I for one intend to monitor same. I have had to deal with a single user manipulating a project with multiple votes, and I don't intend to repeat the experience.

2) Elections will require a 10 voter quorum. If we do not get ten voters and there are candidate(s) who would be elected no matter what the voters needed to make a quorum did, those candidate(s) will be inducted. Otherwise, no one will be inducted. Further, if we fail to meet a quorum in two of any four consecutive elections, the project will end. If, for instance, we're doing fine on the player end but not the contributor end, I would drop the contributor end under this rule.

3) We will start in 1936, just as Cooperstown did. For the first election (1936), voters will rank their top 20, taking 10. After that we will go to having voters rank their top 12 players. Points awarded 12-11-10, etc. We will take the top five through 1940, then top three players per year elected until 2010, then two per year. If a voter does not number his selections, I will try to get him/her to do so. If they do not do so before the end of the election period, I may in my sole discretion invalidate the ballot. I have included this provision in order to ease the process of recording the votes. On another point, I know, the 1936 backlog is huge--but that was a historical issue they couldn't avoid, so neither will we.

4) We will also have a contributor ballot, which will elect one a year through 1985, then one every three (3) years. Contributors will be ranked 1 through 5, with points awarded 5-4-3-2-1. Voters may choose to participate in either one of the ballots or both.

5) It is permissible to vote for a candidate on both the contributor and player lists.

6) You are allowed to change your ballot at any time the ballot is open. However, if you change your ballot, you've got to notify me (jalbright) by PM or by a new post in the voting thread, or the changes likely will not be registered.

7) Players are eligible at the later of age 45 or the first year thereafter in which the player does not play. If the birthdate is not known, add five years to the first time the player misses a season and has less than 10 games the next season. There is an exception for early death, in which case the year of death plus two will be used if that yields an earlier date.

8) Contributors become eligible at age 65 or in the year of death plus two. whichever comes first.

9) Each election will run for approximately two weeks unless expressly altered by the project manager, contributors and players done simultaneously.

10) No one is excluded from being a candidate, regardless of the league they played in, except those elected in either the contributor or player ballots. At that point, they are removed from further consideration. If there are players who returned to the Negro Leagues or Japan after going to the majors, the departure from the majors will be their career end date for purposes of this project.

11) The standard for including a player on one's ballot is that the player must in the voter's opinion be among the very best eligible players (preferably the number voted on, but if a voter wishes to support someone they feel is 15th in a 12 person ballot instead of one of the top 12, it's too close for anyone to reasonably object. On the other hand, supporting the 25th best eligible candidate on a 12 person ballot is probably beyond the pale). I reserve the power to invalidate ballots which I do not feel are a reasonably knowledgeable, good faith effort to rank the players. One issue I am quite concerned about is that I do not want to see what clearly appear to be attempts to manipulate the ballot so as to elect a candidate. In isolation, I probably could live with this, but if it became a widely used tactic, the project would devolve into something I have no desire to be associated with. Moreover, I think that this position asks everyone else to cast legitimate votes so that you can manipulate the system to favor your pet candidates. I cannot accept that, as it strikes me as unfair to other voters. For example, you can't expect to favor even a legitimate HOF candidate like Bill Dahlen over Babe Ruth to get Dahlen elected without being asked to provide a reasonable justification for ranking Dahlen over Ruth. If you can provide a reasonable justification in that scenario, the ballot will stand. If not, you will be asked to make a change. Certainly, a reasonable justification does not indicate in essence simply that you want Dahlen elected. Furthermore, if I invalidate multiple ballots by the same individual as failing to meet this rule, that individual will forever lose the right to have his/her ballots counted. Voters are encouraged to consider character, sportsmanship, and compliance with the rules and spirit of baseball in their rankings of players.

12) I will post lists of eligible players and contributors before each election. If you have a question about the eligibility of a candidate, please ask. I will provide a list of future eligibility dates as well.

13) My eligibility lists come from all persons in the BBF HOF, BBTF Hall of Merit, and Cooperstown, plus all persons getting a vote in a BBF HOF election in the past year and a half or in a BBWAA election. This is a relatively comprehensive list, and thus I must request that if you want another candidate included, you provide some justification for why said candidate is worthy of getting a vote in this project. The main area I think this might come into play is if a voter supports a person who was eligible for the final selections from the recent pre WWII or Negro League committees but not on my master list. That fact alone would serve as ample justification for putting said candidate on the list. We may learn more about Cuban ball or what have you and thus include others after a case is made for them, however. The contributor list is undoubtedly not as comprehensive, and this fact will be taken into consideration.

14) Other than the sportsmanship and character issues, players are to be evaluated solely upon their play. I would prefer that if a player is qualified by his play standing alone that he be elected on that basis. However, a candidate may only be elected either as a contributor or a player, but not both. Contributors are the area where the entire body of work during his career in the sport, including his play, managing, scouting, executive, writing, broadcasting or other work in the sport is relevant. Contributors are to be ranked based on who the voter thinks is most worthy of induction into the Contributor group in this project.

15) Any ballot with two (2) or more spots unfilled with eligible candidates is invalid. In the event of the listing of ineligible names, I will try to notify the voter so that he/she can correct the ballot before the end of the voting period. If the change is made timely, it will count. If not, and there are two or more invalid names, the ballot will not be considered valid. If there is only one, the ineligible name will be stricken and all names after it on the affected ballot will be moved up one spot.

16) Any players listed beyond the 12th place for any ballot but the first (in which case it is 20th place) will be ignored. If more than one person is listed as tied for the last available place and the ballot is oversize, all names will be dropped, which may lead to the invalidation of the ballot.

17) Ties are not permitted in ballot listings. I reserve the right to invalidate ballots for use of ties in the rankings, be it within a single ballot or over the course of several ballots. If the voter does not correct such a listing voluntarily, except in the case of an oversize ballot tie for the last eligible place, if do not invalidate the ballot, I will choose the placement of the two "tied" candidates, generally preferring the candidate preferred by the other voters.

18) For any ties between candidates straddling the in/out line of selections, the first thing considered is the ranking of the candidates by the ballots cast. If there are more than two candidates tied, use a 3-2-1 or whatever is appropriate system. Once one person separates from the tied group, restart with the remaining candidates until there are only as many candidates as the rules call for being elected. If they remain tied after this process, the candidate with the most votes received wins. If it is still tied after that, those with the most #1 votes as the next step, then the most #2 votes and so on to see if that breaks the tie. If not, we will induct all candidates who remain tied at that point.

19) One thing we're going to have to be aware of is the timeline in the case of at least a few contributors. Two which jump out at me are Buck O'Neill, 1976, and Branch Rickey, 1946. I intend to eventually vote for both men, but in 1946, Jackie Robinson was still in Montreal. Really, Branch should wait until at least 1947 after Jackie's success in the majors to get credit for that move. If you think Rickey belongs in the top 5 in 1946 without his role in breaking the color line, that's fine--but he shouldn't get credit for that important success until it actually happened. Buck O'Neill did some important things up until 1976, but after that he was in Ken Burns' Baseball and he was instrumental in the establishment of the Negro Leagues Hall of Fame (both occurred in or around 1994). If you think he belongs based on accomplishments before those two things, that's perfectly acceptable, but please don't credit him with them before they actually happened.

20) I reserve the right to hold a Negro League special election in 2000 if we don't have a sufficient number in that category by then. These elections probably will be limited to voters I feel are appropriately versed on the group of players to be considered. I do wish to only use this as a last resort, however, and only to ensure that this group received what I regard as at least adequate bare minimum representation. I do not plan on sharing with you what I consider to meet those bare minimum standards, but I think that the number I am thinking of are well below the number of candidates that well informed observers believe are well qualified candidates from that group.

21) I will maintain a thread of the project's history and rules which will provide a listing of all elected candidates.

22) Feel free to ask questions by either sending jalbright a PM, or by posting a question in voting thread

[jalbright]

The players who become eligible in 1949 are:


Cissell , Bill
Davis , Spud
Foster , Willie
Gibson , Josh
Klein , Chuck
Martin , Pepper
Myer , Buddy
West , Sam


On the contributor side, Billy Evans joins the list of eligibles

[jalbright]

The 1948 player candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:


player…………….. votes points
Waner, Paul 16 154
Wilson, Jud 12 66
Sisler , George 10 54
Collins , Jimmy 9 53
Clarke , Fred 10 52
Vance , Dazzy 9 45
Magee , Sherry 10 42
Jackson , Joe 4 37
Wheat , Zack 6 32
Radbourn , C 6 26
Start , Joe 4 22
Bennett , C 3 21
Traynor , Pie 4 21
Keeler , Willie 4 20
Johnson , HR 3 18
Lyons , Ted 3 18
Bell, Cool Papa 6 17
Groh , Heinie 4 17
Sutton , Ezra 2 17
Waddell , Rube 4 12
Coveleski , S 2 11
Stovey , Harry 3 11
Flick , Elmer 2 10
Joss , Addie 1 10
McPhee , Bid 3 10
Thompson , Sam 1 10
Mackey, Biz 2 9
Maranville , R 2 9
Carey , Max 2 8
Caruthers , B 2 8
Terry , Bill 3 8
Grant , Frank 2 6
Pearce , Dickey 2 6
Chance , Frank 1 5
Gore , George 1 5
Averill, Earl 1 4
Bresnahan , R 1 4
Rixey , Eppa 1 3
Browning , Pete 1 2
Hill , Pete….. 1 2
McGinnity , Joe 1 2
Tinker, Joe 1 2
Duffy , Hugh 1 1
Evers , Johnny 1 1
Galvin , Pud 1 1


The 1948 contributor candidates who were not elected had these results in the that election:


Contributor………. votes points
Barrow , Ed 11 35
Cartwright , A 7 25
Reach , A. J. 10 22
Commiskey , C 6 18
Landis , K 7 18
Taylor , C. I. 2 9
Hanlon , Ned 4 8
Posey, Cum 3 8
Dunn , Jack 2 6
Pearce, Dickey 2 6
Caylor , O. P. 1 5
Spink, Albert 2 5
Clarke , Fred 1 4
Doubleday , A 1 2
Huggins , M 1 2
Conlan , C 1 1


I strongly suggest that you pay attention to this list, as the leaders of the holdovers are likely to join any strong newcomer candidates as the leaders for winning induction.

[jalbright]

Members of the Best of Baseball Hall

Players


Pete Alexander
Cap Anson
Frank Baker
Ross Barnes
Dan Brouthers
Mordecai Brown
Jesse Burkett
Oscar Charleston
John Clarkson
Ty Cobb
Mickey Cochrane
Eddie Collins
Roger Connor
Sam Crawford
Bill Dahlen
George Davis
Ed Delahanty
Buck Ewing
Frankie Frisch
Lou Gehrig
Charlie Gehringer
Goose Goslin
Lefty Grove
Billy Hamilton
Gabby Hartnett
Harry Heilmann
Paul Hines
Rogers Hornsby
Carl Hubbell
Walter Johnson
Tim Keefe
King Kelly
Nap LaJoie
Pop Lloyd
Christy Mathewson
Kid Nichols
Jim O'Rourke
Eddie Plank
Bullet Joe Rogan
Amos Rusie
Babe Ruth
Louis Santop
Al Simmons
Tris Speaker
Turkey Stearnes
Mule Suttles
Cristobal Torriente
Honus Wagner
Ed Walsh
John M. Ward
Deacon White
Smoky Joe Williams
George Wright
Cy Young


Contributors


Doc Adams
Henry Chadwick
Jim Creighton
Rube Foster
William Hulbert
Ban Johnson
Bill Klem
Connie Mack
John McGraw
Francis Richter
Branch Rickey
Al Spalding
Harry Wright

[jalbright]

The complete list of eligible players:


Adams , Babe
Adams , Sparky
Altrock , Nick
Archer , Jimmy
Arlett , Buzz
Austin , Jimmy
Averill , Earl
Bancroft , Dave
Barry , Jack
Battin , Joe
Beaumont , Ginger
Beckley , Jake
Beckwith , John
Bell , Cool Papa
Bender , Chief
Bennett , Charlie
Benton , Larry
Berg , Moe
Bergen , Marty
Berry , Charlie
Bigbee , Carson
Bishop , Max
Blades , Ray
Blue , Lu
Bluege , Ossie
Bodie , Ping
Boley , Joe
Bond , Tommy
Bottomley , Jim
Bradley , Bill
Breitenstein , Ted
Bresnahan , Roger
Browning , Pete
Burns , George J.
Bush , Joe
Bush , Donie
Bush , Guy
Cadore , Leon
Camnitz , Howie
Carey , Max
Carrigan , Bill
Caruthers , Bob
Chance , Frank
Chapman , Ray
Chase , Hal
Chesbro , Jack
Childs , Cupid
Cicotte , Eddie
Cissell , Bill
Clark , Watty
Clarke , Fred
Coakley , Andy
Collins , Jimmy
Collins , Shano
Combs , Earle
Conroy , Wid
Coombs , Jack
Cooper , Andy
Cooper , Wilbur
Coveleski , Stan
Crandall , Doc
Cravath , Gavvy
Creighton , Jim
Criger , Lou
Critz , Hughie
Cross , Lave
Crowder , Al
Cruise , Walt
Cummings , Candy
Cuyler , Kiki
Daubert , Jake
Davis , Curt
Davis , Harry
Davis , Spud
Dinneen , Bill
Doak , Bill
Donlin , Mike
Donovan , Bill
Dooin , Red
Doyle , Jack
Doyle , Larry
Duffy , Hugh
Dugan , Joe
Dunlap , Fred
Dykes , Jimmy
Earnshaw , George
Ehmke , Howard
Elberfeld , Kid
Elliott , Jumbo
Ens , Jewel
Evers , Johnny
Faber , Red
Falkenberg , Cy
Fitzsimmons , Freddie
Fletcher , Art
Flick , Elmer
Fonseca , Lew
Foster , Eddie
Foster , Willie
Fraser , Chick
Galvin , Pud
Gibson , Josh
Glasscock , Jack
Gleason , Kid
Gonzalez , Mike
Gore , George
Gowdy , Hank
Grant , Eddie
Grant , Frank
Grantham , George
Griffith , Clark
Grimes , Burleigh
Grimm , Charlie
Groh , Heinie
Haas , Mule
Hafey , Chick
Hahn , Noodles
Haines , Jesse
Hallahan , Bill
Hargrave , Bubbles
Harris , Bucky
Herman , Babe
Herzog , Buck
Hill , Pete
Hinchman , Bill
Hooper , Harry
Hoyt , Waite
Huggins , Miller
Irwin , Charlie
Jackman , Will
Jackson , Joe
Jennings , Hughie
Johnson , Home Run
Johnson , Judy
Jones , Charley
Jones , Fielder
Jones , Sam P.
Jordan , Tim
Joss , Addie
Judge , Joe
Kamm , Willie
Keeler , Willie
Kelley , Joe
Kerr , Dickie
Killefer , Bill
Kilroy , Matt
Klein , Chuck
Kling , Johnny
Knabe , Otto
Kremer , Ray
Lange , Bill
Larkin , Henry
Latham , Arlie
Lazzeri , Tony
Leach , Freddy
Leach , Tommy
Leever , Sam
Lewis , Duffy
Lobert , Hans
Long , Herman
Lowe , Bobby
Lucas , Red
Lundy , Dick
Luque , Dolf
Lyons , Denny
Lyons , Ted
Mackey , Biz
Magee , Sherry
Manush , Heinie
Maranville , Rabbit
Marberry , Firpo
Marquard , Rube
Martin , Pepper
Mathews , Bobby
Mays , Carl
McAleer , Jimmy
McCarthy , Tommy
McCormick , Jim
McGinnity , Joe
McGowan , Bill
McInnis , Stuffy
McLean , Larry
McManus , Marty
McPhee , Bid
McVey , Cal
Meadows , Lee
Mendez , Jose
Meusel , Bob
Milan , Clyde
Miller , Bing
Miller , Dots
Miller , Hack
Monroe , Bill
Moore , Dobie
Moran , Pat
Mostil , Johnny
Mullane , Tony
Murphy , Danny
Murray , Red
Myer , Buddy
Nehf , Art
O'Doul , Lefty
Oeschger , Joe
O'Farrell , Bob
O'Leary , Charlie
Oms , Alejandro
O'Neill , Steve
O'Neill , Tip
Orr , Dave
Pabor , Charlie
Paskert , Dode
Pearce , Dickey
Peckinpaugh , Roger
Peitz , Heinie
Pennock , Herb
Perdue , Hub
Perkins , Cy
Phillippe , Deacon
Pike , Lip
Pipp , Wally
Poles , Spotswood
Pruett , Hub
Quinn , Jack
Radbourn , Charlie
Raymond , Bugs
Redding , Dick
Remsen , Jack
Rice , Sam
Richardson , Hardy
Ring , Jimmy
Ritchey , Claude
Rixey , Eppa
Robertson , Dave
Rommel , Eddie
Root , Charlie
Roush , Edd
Rucker , Nap
Rudolph , Dick
Ruel , Muddy
Ryan , Jimmy
Schacht , Al
Schaefer , Germany
Schalk , Ray
Schang , Wally
Schreckengost , Ossie
Schulte , Frank
Scott , Everett
Scott , Jack
Severeid , Hank
Sewell , Joe
Sewell , Luke
Seymour , Cy
Sheckard , Jimmy
Sherdel , Bill
Shocker , Urban
Sisler , George
Smith , Earl
Smith , Sherry
Sparks , Tully
Stahl , Jake
Start , Joe
Steinfeldt , Harry
Stephenson , Riggs
Stovey , Harry
Street , Gabby
Sukeforth , Clyde
Sutton , Ezra
Sweeney , Bill
Tannehill , Jesse
Taylor , Ben
Tenney , Fred
Terry , Bill
Thevenow , Tommy
Thomas , Ira
Thompson , Sam
Tiernan , Mike
Tinker , Joe
Toney , Fred
Traynor , Pie
Turner , Terry
Uhle , George
Van Haltren , George
Vance , Dazzy
Veach , Bobby
Waddell , Rube
Walberg , Rube
Wallace , Bobby
Wambsganss , Bill
Waner , Paul
Warfield , Frank
Welch , Mickey
West , Sam
Wheat , Zack
White , Sol
White , Will
Whitehill , Earl
Williams , Cy
Williams , Ken
Williamson , Ned
Willis , Vic
Wilson , Hack
Wilson , Jimmie
Wilson , Jud
Witt , Whitey
Wood , Joe
Wright , Glenn
Yerkes , Steve
Youngs , Ross
Zachary , Tom
Zimmer , Chief


The complete list of eligible contributors:


Abe , Iso
Bancroft , Frank
Barrow , Ed
Bolden, Ed
Bulkely , Morgan
Carrigan, Bill
Cartwright , Alexander
Caylor , O. P.
Chance , Frank
Clarke , Fred
Commiskey , Charlie
Conlan , Charles
Connolly , Tom
Cooper , Andy
Cummings , Candy
Dinneen , Bill
Doubleday , Abner
Dreyfuss , Barney
Dunn , Jack
Elias , Al Munro
Evans, Billy
Foster , John B.
Fullerton , Hugh
Gleason , Kid
Griffith , Clark
Hanlon , Ned
Harridge, Willie
Hillerich , John
Huggins , Miller
Jennings , Hughie
Krichell, Paul
Landis , Kenesaw
Lardner , Ring
Leavitt, Jr. , Charles W.
McCarthy , Tommy
Mendez , Jose
Mills , A. G.
Moran , Pat
Mutrie , Jim
Navin , Frank
Norworth, Jack
Osborn , Frank
Posey, Cum
Reach , A. J.
Rice, Grantland
Robinson , Wilbert
Ruppert , Jacob
Selee , Frank
Shibe , Ben
Spink, Albert
Stallings , George
Street, Gabby
Taylor , C. I.
Thayer , Ernest
Warfield , Frank
White , Sol
Wilkinson , J. L.
Wilson , Horace

[jalbright]

My ballot:

Players
1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Sherry Magee
4. Zack Wheat
5. Jud Wilson
6. Fred Clarke
7. Dazzy Vance
8. Harry Stovey
9. Ted Lyons
10. Cool Papa Bell
11. Joe McGinnity
12. Rube Waddell

Contributors
1. Ed Barrow
2. Kennesaw Landis
3. Miller Huggins
4. Ned Hanlon
5. Cum Posey

Josh Gibson moves to the top of my ballot and Joe McGinnity returns. I've moved to Rube Waddell as he's getting more support than either Grimes or Galvin right now. They will reappear in due time. I wish I had a spot for Willie Foster, but not yet. I'm also close on adding Grant "Home Run" Johnson, though with the classes we've got coming up, he may wait a while.

[jalbright]

Josh Gibson

He was a very crucial contributor on quite a few champions--the Crawfords and the Grays dynasty chief among them. I count four Negro League world series champs and several more pennant winners. Add to that a title in Cuba and in the 1937 Dominican, that's quite a few. He was in the Negro League all-star game 13 times. He won 11 Negro League HR titles, 1 such title in Mexic0 and 2 in Puerto Rico. He added batting titles in the 37 Dominican, Puerto Rico and one in the Negro Leagues. That's a heck of a resume.

He certainly had a long career for a catcher, 18 years. He played 2 years in Mexico in the summer, 16 in American Negro Leagues. He also played in some winter leagues. In the American Negro Leagues, Holway's data has him leading his league in average once, and in the top five five times. Holway's data has him with the most homers in American Negro Leagues 11 times, and in the top 3 14 times. He also led in homers once in Mexico and was second another time. He was on a Negro League all-star team in nine seasons, and Holway rates him worthy of two more before that game began. Gibson certainly played for winning teams, 12 American Negro League pennant winners, 2 Mexican league pennant winners, 1 Cuban Champ, and one Puerto Rican Winter League playoff team. Gibson hit .393 in his two years in Mexico, slugged .802, and had an OBP of .495. In Puerto Rico, he averaged .355 and homered at a rate of 27 HR per 550 AB. In the sources I've consulted, the lowest American Negro League average he had for his career is .351, and his lowest rate of homers per 550 AB for his American Negro Leagues career is 38.8 homers despite playing much of his American Negro League career in a terrible home run park, Griffith Stadium in Washington, D. C. (where the Senators played). So, in his own environment, Gibson clearly hit for high average and tremendous power, not even considering he was a catcher.

We can look at how Negro Leaguers who were Gibson's contemporaries performed in the majors (the data I've seen suggest that a Negro League home run was just as hard to come by in one place as another, but that Negro League averages were significantly higher, maybe as much as 15%. Even so, that would suggest Gibson was a career .300+ hitter with over 35 HR power per 550 AB. His Mexican walk rate suggests he had good plate discipline, so he should have been at least above average in that regard in the majors, looking at the evidence we have. Holway suggests Gibson was a MVP six times in the American Negro Leagues, while Bill James says five. Either way, a guy with that profile would be winning some MVPs if he had any talent around him, because he'd make almost any team better. Contemporary and expert opinion, even guys who were in the majors, suggests all the above conclusions as to Gibson's talent are valid.

The reports of Gibson's catching prowess are positive, though they may be a bit overblown. However, given that Negro League teams bunted a lot and stole a lot, and that if a guy with Gibson's talent with the bat wasn't much defensively as a catcher, it would make a lot of sense to move him to another spot where his career would likely be longer, especially since he caught for championship teams, I think you've got to credit him with being at least a solid defensive catcher. Basically, the evidence all points to a high average, high power hitting with good plate discipline guy who is also at least a solid catcher defensively over a long career with championship teams.

[Paul Wendt]

Contributors
1 Comiskey
2 Reach
3 Posey
4 Hanlon
5 Barrow

Thus among the builders of teams, I am going with Comiskey, Posey, Hanlon, and Barrow ahead of Selee, Griffith, Taylor, and Wilkinson --and perhaps someday Al Spink, Frank Bancroft, Sol White, or Jack Dunn. Except for Comiskey whose early stardom as player/captain of the Browns distinguishes him from the others, my priorities are governed largely by who seems to have bandwagon potential at this stage. For example, a heavyweight just climbed aboard for Posey, so we should soon be rolling. ;)

Fred Clarke's career as a player alone warrants election a few years ago, in my opinion, which everyone here must know. His work as captain/manager/gm is significant but so dwarfed by his stature as a player that I won't vote for him here. That contrasts with my double votes for Ward in the past and perhaps for Griffith in the future. Clarke's resume is really unbalanced.

[Domenic]

01. Josh Gibson
02. Paul Waner
03. Dazzy Vance
04. Fred Clarke
05. Sherry Magee
06. Rube Waddell
07. Jimmy Collins
08. Joe Jackson
09. Ted Lyons
10. Cool Papa Bell
11. George Sisler
12. Rabbit Maranville

01. Charles Comiskey
02. Ed Barrow
03. Cum Posey
04. Alexander Cartwright
05. Ned Hanlon

[jalbright]

1Fred Clarke's career as a player alone warrants election a few years ago, in my opinion, which everyone here must know. His work as captain/manager/gm is significant but so dwarfed by his stature as a player that I won't vote for him here. Clarke's resume is really unbalanced.

I'm with you in general on Clarke--he's well qualified. Here's what I wrote about him when I pushed him at the BBF HOF project:

In Cooperstown, the Baseball Think Factory "Hall of Merit" and our own Timeline project's hall. He has 400 win shares, 6th among left fielders listed in the BJHA and 44th best all time among all players in the Win Shares book. He also had 160 gray ink points, good for 70th among hitters. He accomplished this while spending the vast majority of his career as a player/manager. I might add that 8 of his 10 most similar players listed by baseball-reference.com are in Cooperstown.

[Ubiquitous]

1. Paul Waner
2. Sherry Magee
3. Pie Traynor
4. Heinie Groh
5. Max Carey
6. Frank Chance
7. Rabbit Marranville
8. Bid McPhee
9. Joe Tinker
10. Johnny Evers
11. Roger Bresnahan
12. George Sisler

1. Charles Comiskey
2. Ed Barrow
3. Jack Dunn
4. A.J. Reach
5. Alfred Spink

[Paul Wendt]

In Cooperstown, the Baseball Think Factory "Hall of Merit" and our own Timeline project's hall. He has 400 win shares, 6th among left fielders listed in the BJHA and 44th best all time among all players in the Win Shares book.
Here are some Hall of Merit rankings at leftfield
6. Simmons
8. Clarke
12. Magee
14. Wheat
17. Goslin

"Everyone" may agree that there is a big gap between 6 Simmons and 7 Burkett, but we may be out on a limb alone in promptly electing Goslin while Clarke --and Magee and Wheat-- are merely strong contenders (albeit sure things as time goes by).

By the way, ranks 13 and 16 at the Hall of Merit are Jimmy Sheckard and Joe Kelley who have no support here yet.

[jalbright]

Since I'm voting for Cum Posey, I might as well remind those who do know about him and fill in the rest on his claims to fame:

From pages 636-638 Riley's Biographical Encyclopedia of the Negro Leagues:

The man who could properly be called the father of the Homestead Grays, his association with the ballclub had roots reaching virtually to the team's inception, and his genius made the Grays a successful franchise. Beginning as a player, he rose through the ranks, proogressing to manager, booking agent, business manager and owner of the ballclub . . . .

[I]n 1912 Posey took charge [of the Grays] and began booking enough games to permit the players to devote all their time to playing baseball.

Within the the next decade the Homestead Grays were the biggest attraction in independent baseball . . . . As more teams appeared, they patterned their operations after Posey's Grays. Posey's dynamic leadership kept the Grays near the top ot the talent pool, and under his guidance they became a team of major-league quality and a dominant dynasty in the Negro Leagues

[Until 1929] Posey split his time between playing and managing [in addition to running the team]. In 1929 he ended his career as an active player and became a bench manager until turning the team over to Vic Harris in 1937 and concentrating on the business end of the Grays . . . .

[W]hen the [American Negro League] folded [in 1930], he returned [the Grays] to independent play, picking up some more stars, including Oscar Charleston, Josh Gibson and Judy Johnson. . . .

Posey . . . had built a powerhouse by signing players from other teams, [but now] became the target for Gus Greenlee's similar tactics. Posey lost Charleston, Gibson and Johnson among other players to Greenlee's Pittsburgh Crawfords because he could not match Greenlee's salaries . . . . [With new financial backing] Posey . . . [eventually] lured Gibson back into the fold to form a dynamic power duo with Buck Leonard.

Posey continued to corral top players, keeping the Grays the class of the league [to the time of his death].

[Tiboreau]

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Jud Wilson
4. Ted Lyons
5. Elmer Flick
6. Dazzy Vance
7. Willie Foster
8. Home Run Johnson
9. Fred Clarke
10. Pete Hill
11. Heinie Groh
12. Hughie Jennings

[bambambaseball]

Players:

1. Josh Gibson
2. Stan Coveleski
3. Charlie Bennett
4. Jimmy Collins
5. Ezra Sutton
6. George Sisler
7. Bob Caruthers
8. Roger Bresnahan
9. Dickey Pearce
10. Sherry Magee
11. Jud Wilson
12. Paul Waner

Contributers:

1. O.P. Caylor
2. Ed Barrow
3. A.J. Reach
4. Charles Commiskey
5. Cum Posey

[jjpm74]

Players:

1. Josh Gibson
2. Ezra Sutton
3. Joe Start
4. Jimmy Collins
5. Paul Waner
6. Charlie Bennett
7. Rabbit Maranville
8. George Sisler
9. Jud Wilson
10. Pie Traynor
11. Cool Papa Bell
12. Ted Lyons

Contributors:

1. Cum Posey
2. C. I. Taylor
3. Charley Comiskey
4. Al Reach
5. Dickey Pearce

[Dogdaze]

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Jud Wilson
4. Jimmy Collins
5. George Sisler
6. Zack Wheat
7. Willie Foster
8. Cool Papa Bell
9. Old Hoss Radbourn
10. Fred Clarke
11. Biz Mackey
12. Frank Grant

Contributors:

1. C. I. Taylor
2. Ed Barrow
3. A.J. Reach
4. Al Spink
5. Cum Posey

[Dogdaze]

Here's a little info I've gathered on Negro League pitcher Willie Foster;

Willie (Bill) Foster, LHP:

NeL Career Stats according to SABR’s HOF study, found in the book Shades of Glory;

G 291 W 143 L 69 IP 1859.7 ER 495 K 1013 BB 516 WP 16 HB 36 SV 17 ERA 2.40

Elected to the HOF in 1996: http://www.baseballhalloffame.org/hofers/detail.jsp?playerId=492565

Elected to BBTF's HOM: http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/hall_of_merit/discussion/bill_foster

Named the NeL's best pitcher three times by Bill James in his Historical Baseball Abstract book for 1927, 1931 and 1932. Also named winner of "The George Stovey Award" (NeL version of a Cy Young) in John Holway's, The Complete Book of Baseball's Negro Leagues for 1927, 1931 and 1932. http://www.baseball-fever.com/archive/index.php/t-36139.html

According to Negro League Historian John Holway, Foster’s record was;
W 160 L 76 http://baseballguru.com/jholway/analysisjholway57.html

Willie Foster is widely considered the greatest left-handed pitcher from the Negro Leagues. Those that saw him describe Foster as an intelligent power pitcher with near-perfect control. His pitch selection included a fastball, change-up, curve as well as a side arm curve and a slider.

Here’s some quotes about Foster;

“Willie Foster was the greatest left-hander that I ever played with. He could have made history if he could have played in the Big Leagues." -Double Duty Radcliffe

"All the years I played, I never got a hit off him. He threw fire." - Buck Leonard

"If I could paint you white I could get $150,000 for you right now." - Charlie Gehringer

"Willie Foster's greatness was that he had this terrific speed and a great, fast-breaking curveball and a drop ball, and he was really a master of the change-of-pace. He could throw you a real fast one and then use the same motion and bring it up a little slower, and then a little slower yet. And then he'd use the same motion again, and Z-zzz. He was really a great pitcher." - Dave Malarcher

[dgarza]

Players

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Sam Thompson
4. Chuck Klein
5. Joe Jackson
6. George Sisler
7. Harry Stovey
8. Willie Keeler
9. Bill Terry
10. Charley Radbourn
11. Pete Browning
12. Cool Papa Bell


Contributors

1. Kenesaw Landis
2. Alexander Cartwright
3. Abner Doubleday
4. Charles Commiskey
5. Charles Conlon

[PVNICK]

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. George Sisler
4. Jimmy Collins
5. Hoss Radbourne
6. Fred Clarke
7. Pie Traynor
8. Bob Caruthers
9. Willie Keeler
10. Stan Coveleski
11. Bill Terry
12. Dazzy Vance

cleared up a few "omissions" swapped Clarke into Averill's spot (and put him ahead of Traynor for good measure) and plugged in Keeler and Coveleski.

1. AJ Reach
2. Albert Spink
3. Barrow
4. Landis
5. Hanlon

[Freakshow]

1 Josh Gibson
2 Paul Waner
3 Fred Clarke
4 Jud Wilson
5 Jimmy Collins
6 Dazzy Vance
7 Zack Wheat
8 Joe Start
9 George Sisler
10 Sherry Magee
11 Ted Lyons
12 Bid McPhee

[jaxxr]

1 Joe Jackson
2 Addie Joss
3 Josh Gibson
4 George Sisler
5 Dazzy Vance
6 Bid McPhee
7 Willie Keeler
8 Elmer Flick
9 Rube Waddell
10 Bill Terry
11 Chuck Klien
12 Pie Traynor

[jalbright]

We now have a quorum on the player side, and one more contributor ballot will make a quorum on that side as well.

[BlueBlood]

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Charlie Bennett
4. Zack Wheat
5. Dazzy Vance
6. Pud Galvin
7. Jimmy Collins
8. Rube Waddell
9. Ezra Sutton
10. Fred Clarke
11. Sherry Magee
12. Joe McGinnity


1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Ed Barrow
3. Kennesaw Landis
4. Ned Hanlon
5. Charles Comiskey


In response to a user inquiring about me having Mr. Bennett at #2 in the 1945 election (which I was unable to reply to due to my computer having its final meltdown), I have him ranked highly because I think he deserves more attention and will receive an extra push if he appears higher in the yearly voting results. It's a case of him being the most underrated so far in my humble opinion. The same can be said of Pud Galvin who has really seen his support dwindle.

[J W]

Players

1. Josh Gibson
2. Joe Jackson
3. Biz Mackey
4. Paul Waner
5. Jud Wilson
6. Frank Grant
7. George Sisler
8. Rube Waddell
9. Sherry Magee
10. Stan Coveleski
11. Charley Radbourn
12. Fred Clarke


Contributors

1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Fred Clarke
3. Ed Barrow
4. Ned Hanlon
5. Alfred Spink

[jalbright]

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Charlie Bennett

In response to a user inquiring about me having Mr. Bennett at #2 in the 1945 election (which I was unable to reply to due to my computer having its final meltdown), I have him ranked highly because I think he deserves more attention and will receive an extra push if he appears higher in the yearly voting results. It's a case of him being the most underrated so far in my humble opinion. The same can be said of Pud Galvin who has really seen his support dwindle.

I'm sorry, but that's unacceptable use of the ballot. Please change your player rankings, or you're one step from out of this project. I will not tolerate manipulations of the ballot this way if and when I catch them, as it undermines the whole project, which relies on honest evaluations of the players, not politicking. If you feel someone deserves more attention, do it the old fashioned way--campaign for the guy. Make your argument. Don't manipulate the ballot.

[jalbright]

We now have a quorum on the player side.

[jalbright]

As for Bennett, I have supported him for the BBF HOF and will eventually in this project. That said, I don't see him as having the kind of career that puts him in the company of the guys on my ballot at this point. He's a down the road guy for me.

[jalbright]

If anyone thinks I am overreacting to BlueBlood's statement, please consult post #2 in this thread, rule #11. It captured my feelings on this before this post was ever made, and I stand by it.

[Tiboreau]

In response to a user inquiring about me having Mr. Bennett at #2 in the 1945 election (which I was unable to reply to due to my computer having its final meltdown), I have him ranked highly because I think he deserves more attention and will receive an extra push if he appears higher in the yearly voting results. It's a case of him being the most underrated so far in my humble opinion. The same can be said of Pud Galvin who has really seen his support dwindle.

Considering what year this project started, the decision to forgo a VC, and the willingness (for the most part . . . ) to give 19th century & Negro League ballplayers a fair shake, there are still several deserving ballplayers receiving little support right now who are not backloggers and will eventually get the support they deserve: Pete Hill, George Gore, Bid McPhee, Stan Coveleski, Heinie Groh & Ezra Sutton to name a few. While I'd also like to see these & Charlie Bennett receive more support, it's probably better to wait until the upcoming shoo-ins (Gibson) & our consensus better players (such as Collins & Clarke) get elected to see if such ballplayers get the respect they deserve. And if they don't, it'll then be time to campaign like all get out (whatever that means . . . ) as you place Bennett properly in a deserving top spot.

[jalbright]

Let me be clear: what frosts me in this is not listing Bennett second--if the voter genuinely ranked him that highly. However, his own words indicate quite clearly IMHO that he does not do so. That is the kind of shenanigans that will make me quite irate. Sure, there's some wriggle room for debate and whatnot--this isn't easy. But outright manipulation of the ballot like that has no place here. If you're prepared to defend what others may see as idiosyncratic choices, it's probably OK short of a ballot by a total doofus (I'm thinking of the kind of ballot littered with Mario Mendozas and Choo Choo Colemans--guys who in their best seasons weren't thought of as star caliber players and didn't deserve to be thought of that way)--but if you're not even willing to make that defense, think again.

Remember, too, that we only have about 20 voters. Even one person improperly manipulating his ballot means around 5% of the ballots have been manipulated. That can have a definite effect.

Beyond that, moving a guy up a few points, unless it's into an induction spot (which means he's already getting support) isn't the way to draw much more support. I think that our election history indicates the best shot of influencing the voters is to post your argument for your candidate.

[Captain Cold Nose]

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. George Sisler
4. Willie Keeler
5. Cool Papa Bell
6. Charles Radbourne
7. Jud Wilson
8. Jimmy Collins
9. Harry Stovey
10. Frank Grant
11. Pete Hill
12. Zack Wheat

Contributors

1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Ned Hanlon
3. Ed Barrow
4. A.J. Reach
5. Frank Chance

[jalbright]

BlueBlood's ballot this election will count even if he doesn't change it--but if that happens and then there's another clear breach of the honest ranking concept, he'll be gone from the project at that point, with the next improper ballot also invalidated.

[jalbright]

Considering what year this project started, the decision to forgo a VC, and the willingness (for the most part . . . ) to give 19th century & Negro League ballplayers a fair shake, there are still several deserving ballplayers receiving little support right now who are not backloggers and will eventually get the support they deserve: Pete Hill, George Gore, Bid McPhee, Stan Coveleski, Heinie Groh & Ezra Sutton to name a few. While I'd also like to see these & Charlie Bennett receive more support, it's probably better to wait until the upcoming shoo-ins (Gibson) & our consensus better players (such as Collins & Clarke) get elected to see if such ballplayers get the respect they deserve. And if they don't, it'll then be time to campaign like all get out (whatever that means . . . ) as you place Bennett properly in a deserving top spot.

I think with the makeup of our electorate, we won't have much problem going back and adding guys who may have been eligible in our project for years when we as a group think their time in the rankings has come. I know I won't be shy about going back to pick guys I think are worthy or making a case for them, and I think we have a number of other members who will do likewise. Even those who might not take the initiative in this regard will, I believe, give such "old-timers" a fair shake once reminded of their qualifications.

[bambambaseball]

BlueBlood's ballot this election will count even if he doesn't change it--but if that happens and then there's another clear breach of the honest ranking concept, he'll be gone from the project at that point, with the next improper ballot also invalidated.

I dont understand what the big deal is. I have him 3rd on my balott. He's there because hes the best 19th century catcher we havent elected and I give him extra credit for being a catcher in a time with no equipment. Didnt you say yourself that this project was set up in a way that people couldnt manipulate the results by strategic balotting?

[BlueBlood]

I agree with Jim and his posts...I just had misinterpreted some things. Truthfully, I had Bennett ranked at #2 in 1945 because I honestly felt at the time that he deserved that. As for this instance, I for the first time had tried to give players a push by listing higher than necessary.

I understand the project is about us ranking the players according to how we truly feel about their careers overall and thus my ballot would have been undermining the entire project. Those players that I feel are being overlooked (including some just below my ballot) will get in anyway, so I was kind of cheating myself even though I figured that neither of these two men would be anywhere near the induction line. My bad.

Revised Ballot:

1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Zack Wheat
4. Dazzy Vance
5. Charlie Bennett
6. Jimmy Collins
7. Rube Waddell
8. Ezra Sutton
9. Fred Clarke
10. Pud Galvin
11. Sherry Magee
12. Joe McGinnity


1. Alexander Cartwright
2. Ed Barrow
3. Kennesaw Landis
4. Ned Hanlon
5. Charles Comiskey

[jalbright]

I dont understand what the big deal is. I have him 3rd on my balott. He's there because hes the best 19th century catcher we havent elected and I give him extra credit for being a catcher in a time with no equipment. Didnt you say yourself that this project was set up in a way that people couldnt manipulate the results by strategic balotting?

I tried to minimize that aspect, and I think it's been successful. That said, it's not immune to that kind of stuff, if only because when there's rules, there's ways to manipulate them, if you are willing to take the time and make the effort to do so.

If you honestly feel Bennett deserves to be that high, I disagree, but that's a difference of opinion. It's allowed. BlueBlood expressly indicated he cast a ballot he did not believe was accurate. That's a different matter entirely. In such a small group, any one manipulation affects a significant portion of ballots. Thus, the project has to have honest evaluations. Mostly, that's self-policing, but I'm not about to stand by when someone publicly admits to manipulating the ballot. I could have come down harder on BlueBlood than I have, but I didn't. As he has revised his ballot, there will be no carryover from this incident. Certainly, when a ranking seems out of place, it is fair for participants in the project, myself included, to inquire as to the voter's reasons for the questioned ranking.

Also, bambam, you weren't around in the BBF HOF project when I found the infamous one person casting five ballots (for a period of months) under different user names scandal. It was a true punch in the gut, and I doubt I will forget it. I have no intention of being blindsided like that again, and thus I probably err on the side of going after issues which go to the heart of the project when they first show up rather than waiting. I'm not going to apologize for that.

[J W]

Nor should you. I was there too.

Regarding Pud Galvin -- we've elected 15 pitchers so far, and 39 position players, for a rate of 28% pitching. That seems a little low... but teams carried less pitchers back in the day.

If you have a free spot on your ballot when a weak rookie class comes in, consider a pitcher. My next five are Vance, Caruthers, McGinnity, Redding, and Galvin.

[jalbright]

We have four people who voted in both elections last time, but haven't voted at all yet, plus Paul Wendt, who has registered a contributor ballot, but hasn't yet submitted a player ballot. The other four are: Sockeye, leecemark, AstrosFan, and AG2004. Those of that five who haven't voted by Monday morning will get a reminder by PM.

[jalbright]

JW,

Thanks for the support. It is appreciated.

=================================================

Now, on to next election's new candidates.

On the contributor side, we'll add Matsutaro Shoriki, who began professional baseball in Japan. He made it into the BBF HOF, but I suspect he's a candidate for a later day.

On the player side, we have an interesting class:


Berger , Wally
Dihigo , Martin
Ferrell , Rick
Johnson , Bob
Lindstrom , Freddie
Mancuso , Gus
Ruffing , Red


Presuming that Gibson and Waner do the expected and get elected, Dihigo will shoot to the top of my ballot. Ruffing's a strong candidate, and I suspect I'll add him as well, but I'm not sure where on my ballot he'll go. There will be advocates for Berger and Johnson, I'm sure. Ferrell and Lindstrom are in Cooperstown, but I think it's safe to say our electorate will view them as mistakes and give them little or no support. Only Mancuso is virtually certain to be ignored, though.

[leecemark]

1) Josh Gibson
2) Fred Clarke
3) Paul Waner
4) Jimmy Collins
5) Charlie Bennett
6) Dazzy Vance
7) Charlie Radbourne
8) Rube Waddell
9) Sherry Magee
10) Jud Wilson
11) Ted Lyons
12) Zack Wheat

1) Alexander Cartwright
2) Dickey Pearce
3) Commissioner Landis
4) Charlie Commiskey
5) Ed Barrow

[Paul Wendt]

Here is a count by debut decade, 1860s to 1930s, first by grouped fielding position and then in total.

60s-90s; 00s-30s; fielding positions

0 4 4 2 ; 2 4 5 0 ; L C R 1 (21) 25
3 1 1 4 ; 3 2 4 0 ; c 3 s 2 (18) 21
0 0 3 2 ; 6 2 2 0 ; pitcher (15) 16

3 5 8 8 ; 11 8 11 0; all members to 1948 (54)

It is clear that we will soon elect Josh Gibson and the first seven runners up from 1948, everyone ahead of Joe Jackson. Including them the bold counts increase by one with these totals.
3 5 8 10; 12 9 14 1; including eight leaders (62)

[Sockeye]

1. Waner , Paul
2. Lyons , Ted
3. Clarke , Fred
4. Jackson , Joe
5. Wheat , Zack
6. Gibson , Josh
7. Vance , Dazzy
8. Keeler , Willie
9. Rixey , Eppa
10. Magee , Sherry
11. Galvin , Pud
12. Coveleski , Stan

1. Barrow , Ed
2. Cartwright , A
3. Reach , A. J.
4. Commiskey , C
5. Landis , K

[jalbright]

It is clear that we will soon elect Josh Gibson and the first seven runners up from 1948, everyone ahead of Joe Jackson.

I'd agree with that assessment. That top seven, plus Gibson, all have at least close to or over 50% support. Below them, no one has garnered that kind of support yet. I'm sure some will do so, but it's certainly possible some won't gain enough support to make it in.

[jalbright]

A little under 38 1/2 hours to go in this election as I write, and three who voted in last election have yet to submit the same ballots as last election. Paul Wendt has his player ballot still outstanding, and AstrosFan and AG2004 have yet to submit either ballot. Of course, others who want to participate have that same time frame to submit a ballot meeting our rules and are invited to do so.

[Paul Wendt]

... we've elected 15 pitchers so far, and 39 position players, for a rate of 28% pitching. That seems a little low... but teams carried less pitchers back in the day.

If you have a free spot on your ballot when a weak rookie class comes in, consider a pitcher. My next five are Vance, Caruthers, McGinnity, Redding, and Galvin.

Vance is the pitcher among the foregone conclusions whom I have counted in the distribution of 62 members and leaders by debut decade (#43 footnote and below).

Here is another look at those counts by debut decade, this time combining consecutive decades in twenty-year spans. As in #43 footnote, the scope is current members plus eight clear leaders whose election is imminent.

The first three columns count outfielders and firstbasemen (O), other infielders and catchers (I), and pitchers (P). John Ward is a shortstop (I).

First group the 1900s debuts with the 1910s.

fieldpos; all; debut
O I P ;
4 4 0 ; 08 ; 1860s-70s debut
7 6 5 ; 18 ; 80s-90s
8 5 8 ; 21 ; 00s-10s
6 6 3 ; 15 ; 20s-30s

25 21 16; 62; all

Alternatively, group the 1900s with the 1890s.

fieldpos; all; debut
O I P ;
0 3 0 ; 03 ; 1860s debut (Wright, White, Barnes)
8 2 3 ; 13 ; 70s-80s
6 8 8 ; 22 ; 90s-00s
11 7 5; 23 ; 10s-20s
0 1 0 ; 01 ; 1930s debut (Josh Gibson)

25 21 16; 62; all

Please consider the 1880s "infielders", I = {c, 3b, ss, 2b} (bold in the table), such as Bennett, Sutton, Glasscock, McPhee, and Richardson.

In contrast we have elected a lot of pitchers with 1900s-1910s or 1890s-1900s debuts (blue in the table)..

[jalbright]

Less than five hours to go in this election.

[AG2004]

My ballot

PLAYERS
1. Josh Gibson
2. Paul Waner
3. Jud Wilson
4. Joe Start
5. Home Run Johnson
6. Hoss Radbourn
7. Fred Clarke
8. Dickey Pearce
9. Joe McGinnity
10. Sherry Magee
11. Willie Foster
12. Dazzy Vance

CONTRIBUTORS
1. Kenesaw Mountain Landis
2. Al Reach
3. Ed Barrow
4. Dickey Pearce
5. Frank Selee

[Paul Wendt]

There is one major revision here. Charley Radbourn moves from off ballot to the six slot. I'm not sure Tim Keefe was any greater.

Players

1 Gibson J
2 Waner
3 Clarke
4 Wilson J
5 JOHNSON G
6 Radbourn
7 Gore
8 Groh
9 Colllins J
10 McPhee
11 Start
12 Bennett

[jalbright]

The final results for the 1949 election:

We have inducted Fred Clarke, Josh Gibson, and Paul Waner. With 18 ballots cast in the player election, here are the official results:


Player…………… votes points
Gibson, Josh 17 197
Waner, Paul 17 173
Clarke , Fred 12 82
Wilson, Jud 11 79
Collins , Jimmy 10 75
Sisler , George 11 69
Vance , Dazzy 10 62
Magee , Sherry 10 51
Jackson , Joe 5 45
Radbourn , C 8 44
Wheat , Zack 7 42
Bennett , C 5 34
Lyons , Ted 7 33
Keeler , Willie 5 29
Waddell , Rube 6 28
Start , Joe 4 26
Sutton , Ezra 3 24
Bell, Cool Papa 6 22
Johnson , HR 3 21
Traynor , Pie 4 20
Coveleski , S 4 18
Groh , Heinie 3 16
McPhee , Bid 4 16
Stovey , Harry 3 15
Foster, Willie 3 14
Flick , Elmer 2 13
Maranville , R 3 13
Mackey, Biz 2 12
Caruthers , B 2 11
Grant , Frank 3 11
Joss , Addie 1 11
Klein, Chuck 2 11
Thompson , S 1 10
Pearce , Dickey 2 9
Terry , Bill 3 9
Carey , Max 1 8
Bresnahan , R 2 7
Chance , F 1 7
McGinnity , J 3 7
Gore , George 1 6
Galvin , Pud 2 5
Hill , Pete…... 2 5
Rixey , Eppa 1 4
Tinker, Joe 1 4
Evers , Johnny 1 3
Browning , Pete 1 2
Jennings , H 1 1


On the contributor side, we had fifteen ballots cast, and elected Ed Barrow. The official results:


Contributor………. votes points
Barrow , Ed 13 44
Cartwright , A 7 30
Reach , A. J. 9 28
Commiskey , C 9 27
Landis , K 7 23
Hanlon , Ned 7 14
Posey, Cum 6 14
Taylor , C. I. 2 9
Spink, Albert 4 8
Pearce, Dickey 3 7
Caylor , O. P. 1 5
Clarke , Fred 1 4
Doubleday , A 1 3
Dunn , Jack 1 3
Huggins , M 1 3
Chance , F 1 1
Conlan , C 1 1
Selee , Frank 1 1