Amos Otis

[Cowtipper]

Amos Otis played 17 years in the big leagues, hitting .277 with 2,020 hits, 341 stolen bases and 193 home runs. He was an All-Star five times and he won three Gold Glove awards. In the postseason, Otis was solid, hitting .295 with three home runs and eight stolen bases in 22 games.

Statistically, he isn't similar to any Hall of Famers, according to Baseball Reference. He is similar to Cesar Cedeno, Devon White, Gary Matthews, Chet Lemon, Dusty Baker, Marquis Grissom, Ken Griffey, Felipe Alou, Minnie Minoso and Claudell Washington.

According to The Baseball Page, Otis is the 18th best center fielder of all time. In 1990, his first and only year of Hall of Fame eligibility, he received exactly zero votes.

What do you think about Amos Otis? Do you think he should be in the Hall of Fame.

[SABR Matt]

I have Otis 21st on the CF leaderboard...he's an interesting player to talk about, but I just think his career lacks the kind of long-held ELP you need to be a HOFer...here's what it looks like by PCA and the HOF Marker:
Yr Lg Off Def O-M D-M Wins
1978 AL 11.29 3.45 19.0 4.7 14.74
1971 AL 7.98 5.38 12.1 8.3 13.36
1970 AL 9.09 3.19 13.7 3.7 12.28
1974 AL 6.75 4.30 9.5 6.1 11.05
1973 AL 8.99 1.47 13.8 0.6 10.46
1979 AL 6.53 3.29 8.9 4.2 9.82
1976 AL 8.71 0.31 13.2 -1.8 9.02
1972 AL 7.04 1.45 10.3 0.6 8.49
1977 AL 4.72 2.65 5.9 3.1 7.37
1975 AL 4.34 1.90 5.2 1.6 6.24
1981 AL 3.07 3.16 3.5 4.7 6.23
1980 AL 2.66 2.38 2.5 3.1 5.04
1982 AL 3.32 1.63 3.3 1.3 4.95
1983 AL 0.84 1.74 -0.8 2.2 2.58

His peak is pretty good, but the value really tapers off after those top 7 years. If you think there should be more CFers than corner outfielders (not an unreasonable position since it takes more skill to play center) then maybe Otis would fit...he's off my list but still very good.

[Cougar]

The standards for HOF centerfielders are pretty peculiar. There's probably a flatter distribution here than at any other position. On one end you've got Cobb, Mays, Mantle; on the other Hack Wilson, Lloyd Waner, Earle Combs.

Amos Otis could be a HOFer, I think that's for certain. Should he be? Should he go to the head of the line? Where does he rank among the eligibles (and there's a LOT of plausible CF candidates)?

I don't think he's especially close to the front of the line myself (Dawson, Murphy, and perhaps Bernie Williams are jockeying for position there). But one could make a case.

[SABR Matt]

Dawson and Murphy are WAY ahead of Otis in my book. I don't judge who should be in or out based on who isn't in yet that should be, though.

Nonetheless I agree...there are better candidates and Otis is pretty marginal.

[leecemark]

--AO wouldn't be the worst CFer in the Hall. He isn't even the best CFer of his generation not in Cooperstown though - I'd take Lynn or Cedeno first.

[bambambaseball]

Hes a solid maybe. Much better then the joke of a player scrubs youve started polls about lately!

[SABR Matt]

--AO wouldn't be the worst CFer in the Hall. He isn't even the best CFer of his generation not in Cooperstown though - I'd take Lynn or Cedeno first.

Cedeno and Lynn are both ahead of Otis on my list as well...and shortly after those too disappear we have Murphy and Dawson...so...lots of guys getting snubbed in CF

[Paul Wendt]

These twelve centerfielders who have retired during my time as a baseball fan may have accomplished too much for this series of polls.

Vada Pinson
Willie Davis
Amos Otis
Cesar Cedeno
Fred Lynn
Chet Lemon
Andre Dawson
Dale Murphy
Ellis Burks
Kenny Lofton
Bernie Williams
Jim Edmonds (a great fun player for ten years, probably overqualified here)

Here is a half dozen from the next tier.

Paul Blair
Gorman Thomas (a great fun player for five years)
Lloyd Moseby
Devon White
Ray Lankford
Steve Finley

While not quite off the top of my head, I didn't select them systematically. There must be some comparable omissions.

Gorman Thomas and Jim Edmonds were fun to watch both in the top and the bottom of the inning.

[SABR Matt]

These twelve centerfielders who have retired during my time as a baseball fan may have accomplished too much for this series of polls.

Vada Pinson 18
Willie Davis 16
Amos Otis 23
Cesar Cedeno 13
Fred Lynn 19
Chet Lemon 34
Andre Dawson 19 - RF
Dale Murphy 17
Ellis Burks 48
Kenny Lofton 24
Bernie Williams 36
Jim Edmonds 20 (a great fun player for ten years, probably overqualified here)

Here is a half dozen from the next tier.

Paul Blair >60
Gorman Thomas >80(a great fun player for five years)
Lloyd Moseby >90
Devon White >50
Ray Lankford >41
Steve Finley 37

PCA ranks in CF (except Dawson who ranks as a RFer).

[SavoyBG]

While not quite off the top of my head, I didn't select them systematically. There must be some comparable omissions.



Brett Butler?

[SABR Matt]

I asked myself the same question...the community here doesn't seem to like Butler much. He's actually the top remaining CFer on my list not in the HOF.

[CTaka]

Brett Butler?

I like Butler a lot; used to love to watch him play. I think a lot of people don't rate him highly because he was more of a deadball-style player playing in an era dominated by big homeruns.

[SavoyBG]

I asked myself the same question...the community here doesn't seem to like Butler much. He's actually the top remaining CFer on my list not in the HOF.

Where does your system rank him among CFers?

BJ had him at # 25. He was just below Cedeno, Otis, Carey and Dom DiMaggio and just ahead of Ryan, W. Davis, Van Haltren and Roy Thomas. Pretty good company. Not a hall of famer, but in the next group of really good players.

Can you list your system's top 40 CFers?

[Freakshow]

All players with >39% games in CF, >6500 PA, last active 1974-2008,
Cnt Player OPS+ RC G PA From To Ages
+----+-----------------+----+----+----+-----+----+----+-----+
1 Reggie Smith 137 1276 1987 8050 1966 1982 21-37
2 Jim Edmonds 132 1364 1925 7708 1993 2008 23-38
3 Fred Lynn 129 1232 1969 7923 1974 1990 22-38
4 Jimmy Wynn 128 1149 1920 8010 1963 1977 21-35
5 Ellis Burks 126 1350 2000 8176 1987 2004 22-39
6 Bernie Williams 125 1445 2076 9053 1991 2006 22-37
7 Rick Monday 125 1021 1986 7162 1966 1984 20-38
8 Kirby Puckett 124 1201 1783 7831 1984 1995 24-35
9 Bobby Murcer 124 1101 1908 7718 1965 1983 19-37
10 Cesar Cedeno 123 1144 2006 8133 1970 1986 19-35
11 Ray Lankford 122 1045 1701 6674 1990 2004 23-37
12 Dale Murphy 121 1308 2180 9040 1976 1993 20-37
13 Chet Lemon 120 1077 1988 7872 1975 1990 20-35
14 Andre Dawson 119 1518 2627 10769 1976 1996 21-41
15 Robin Yount 115 1655 2856 12249 1974 1993 18-37
16 Amos Otis 114 1114 1998 8246 1967 1984 20-37
17 Brett Butler 110 1276 2213 9545 1981 1997 24-40
18 Vada Pinson 110 1393 2469 10403 1958 1975 19-36
19 Brady Anderson 109 1118 1834 7737 1988 2002 24-38
20 Kenny Lofton 107 1386 2103 9234 1991 2007 24-40
21 Willie Davis 106 1185 2429 9822 1960 1979 20-39
22 Steve Finley 104 1416 2583 10460 1989 2007 24-42
23 Jose Cardenal 103 929 2017 7696 1963 1980 19-36
24 Lloyd Moseby 102 837 1588 6574 1980 1991 20-31
25 Willie McGee 100 1007 2201 8188 1982 1999 23-40
26 Garry Maddox 100 838 1749 6775 1972 1986 22-36
27 Devon White 98 1022 1941 8080 1985 2001 22-38
28 Paul Blair 96 702 1947 6673 1964 1980 20-36
29 Willie Wilson 94 1024 2154 8317 1976 1994 20-38
30 Marquis Grissom 92 1101 2165 8959 1989 2005 22-38

[gman5431]

A.......o...........

N.......o..........

[PVNICK]

Otis fell too far too fast and even still he was a esoteric great player even in his time, so I doubt he would have had a shot even if he kept it up until the mid 80s.

[SABR Matt]

Where does your system rank him among CFers?

BJ had him at # 25. He was just below Cedeno, Otis, Carey and Dom DiMaggio and just ahead of Ryan, W. Davis, Van Haltren and Roy Thomas. Pretty good company. Not a hall of famer, but in the next group of really good players.

Can you list your system's top 40 CFers?

I have Butler all the way up at 12th all time...PCA is mor eimpressed with his defense than most here seem to be...and OPS+ misses a decent chunk of his offensive value because like all OBP-driven guys, OPS+ misses how important the on-base part actually is (OBP*1.8 is more accurate). Butler was an on-base machine and a decent (though unspectacular) baserunner.