Bryce Harper...wow

[OleMissCub]

I suppose this could go in Amateur Baseball, but I think with the implications it could have for the sport, it belongs in here.

http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1156215/index.htm




They say his bat speed at 16 is already faster than McGwire's ever was. His highlight videos, including his 502 ft shot at Tropicana Park are completely jaw dropping:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULNXgXwPSNw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=liS3kGvQ9Bk

[mwiggins]

Matt Wieters with real power? :faint:

At 15 his arm had already been graded as a 70 by pro scouts.

[bob]

By tomorrow he'll have a thread in the HOF forum. :rolleyes:

[RuthMayBond]

By tomorrow he'll have a thread in the HOF forum. :rolleyes:We're really slacking on this one

[ol' aches and pains]

I hear Bryce Harper already drank Matt Wieters' milkshake.

[NYMets523]

He needs to lighten up on the eye black.

[mwiggins]

We're really slacking on this one

I still think Strasburg should get his own HoF thread first. He does throw harder than Bryce, after all. And he'll get his first Cy Young next year, while Harper will have to finish high school before he wins his first MVP.

[Allie Fox]

Billy Beane says hello. ;)

[mwiggins]

Billy Beane says hello. ;)

Come one, there's nothing that can derail Harper. Unless major league pitchers start throwing him sliders and curves and circle changes or something.

He's practically a lock to be a great home run derby participant.

[RuthMayBond]

Come one, there's nothing that can derail Harper. Unless major league pitchers start throwing him sliders and curves and circle changes or something.

He's practically a lock to be a great home run derby participant.I don't know where the 570 ft HR is.
There was one 502 HR...
grooved...
using probably the best aluminum bat money can buy

[mwiggins]

I don't know where the 570 ft HR is.
There was one 502 HR...
grooved...
using probably the best aluminum bat money can buy

He did put on an impressive show last year in some all star tourney hitting BP with a wood bat. No 500+ foot shots, though. But that's a far cry from hitting live, quality pitching with a wood bat.

[Otis Nixon's Bodyguard]

I read that SI article about Harper, as well as the article ESPN the Magazine about Strasburg this week. Right now, I'm higher on Strasburg than Harper.

I'm sure Harper has the natural ability to succeed at the big league level, but that's just one piece of the puzzle. He's only 16, and a lot can happen between now and his early/mid 20s. It remains to be seen how he'll adapt to having to face real pitching, and what kind of approach/strategy he'll develop at the plate (a lot of these super-talented kids go up there and try to hit everything out of the park like they're still in high school, rather than taking what the pitcher gives them). Furthermore, he comes off as a little bit cocky/naive (not that most of us weren't that way at his age) when he talks about his goal to get into the HOF and be considered the greatest baseball player ever. How about setting a goal of actually getting to the big leagues first? Or having a productive rookie year once you get there? I don't care how good you are, those things are hard to do. Strasburg, being 21 already, comes across as being a little more grounded. In addition, we've seen what he can do against D-1 and Olympic-level players, and it's pretty impressive.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I still think Josh Hamilton was better coming out of high school. Remember him?

[sturg1dj]

didn't Prince Fielder once hit a 500+ HR in HS? metal bats people. Not saying this guy is a fraud, just I doubt the 570 will transfer over.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

If you look at Willie Ansley's 1988 Topps card it says he hit a 596 ft HR in Texas. Ansley never reached the majors.

[philipthegreat]

I suspect that this SI article was a little bit premature to say the least
:blah:

[OleMissCub]

I doubt the 570 will transfer over.

I think most people with more than a pea sized brain know that. That bat speed isn't normal though. It's already faster than McGwire's ever was. He's got the tools, it just remains to be seen whether he has the brain for it. see: Jeff Francouer....5 tool skill set, 10 cent brain.

[Cowtipper]

He's 16 and he already has that arrogant air about hi:m:


"Be in the Hall of Fame, definitely," says Harper when asked by Verducci about his goals. "Play in Yankee Stadium. Play in the pinstripes. Be considered the greatest baseball player who ever lived. I can't wait."

[ol' aches and pains]

He's 16 and he already has that arrogant air about hi:m:

Ted Williams was similarly arrogant at a very young age. Turns out it was justified in his case, but it sure grates on you to hear it from a 16 year-old.

[Biggtone23]

He's 16 and he already has that arrogant air about hi:m:

Well I'd rather hear him say that and be honest then give the canned lines of "I just wanna play ball and take it one step/day/game at a time, blah blah blah"

[Allie Fox]

It's great for him to have the confidence to think those things and maybe even say them out loud with his tongue in his cheek, but he has to be wary because those words may come back to haunt him after he puts down the aluminum bat and starts "filtering up" to the higher levels where the talent, skill and desire all converge.

[mwiggins]

I'm not sure why that quote is considered arrogant. He wasn't saying he thought he was, or was going to become, the best player who ever lived. Or that he was going to come in and dominate the league. That's just his goal. I would hope that would be every really good player's goal at that age. Not everyone would say that, but they'd be just laying on BS. You're never going to be great if you don't strive to be great.

[elmer]

I don't know where the 570 ft HR is.
There was one 502 HR...
grooved...
using probably the best aluminum bat money can buy

Harper's Home Field in Las Vegas: Graphic courtesy of Hittracker

[RuthMayBond]

It got cut off, but a HIGH SCHOOL field probably 360' DOWN THE (right field) LINE? :faint:

[Bennybosox]

The Bryce harper hype machine has been up and running for over a year now (Baseball America has called him the greatest HS prospect ever, and he was 15 at the time)--now it's gone a little more mainstream with the SI cover.

There was some talk about him possibly circumventing the system, obtaining his GED, and entering the draft a year early (I think Jeremy Bonderman did something similar to that). I don't know about all that, but I do know that his game is a lot more advanced that 500+ ft BP Homers. The advanced scouting reports say that his pitch recognition is superb, and in addition to his power he has the ability to make solid contact to all fields. Apparently he also has a cannon for an arm and his accuracy is unbelievable. Sure, it's obvious that he is a man among boys at the high school level, and that type of "talent gap" can skew projections, as he is a far superior player compared to other high schoolers. It is nice to see the MLB draft (and ametuer players) get some buzz around it relative to the NFL or NBA with these "once in a lifetime" & "can't miss" talents like Strausberg and Harper.

I know of several instances where a prep pitcher has been drafted and gone straight to the Majors, but has that happened witha position player in the modern draft era? I've seen reports that if Harper's development stays on course that he could go from HS to MLB

[gator92]

I'm not sure where the ball is supposed to have landed in this photo, but here's the Verducci description:

The lefthanded Harper had hit the ball over the rightfield fence, two trees, another fence, a sidewalk, five lanes of traffic on elevated South Hollywood Boulevard and yet another sidewalk, until it finally landed in the brown, undeveloped desert.

IF this ball went 570 feet, it cleared the second sidewalk by around 100 feet, but that isn't mentioned in the description. Strange, most sportswriters I've ever read will wring an event for every last detail that helps make their point (in this case, that Harper is a tremendously powerful hitter, which he of course is, having hit a genuine 502 foot homer in front of my very own eyes in Tropicana Field)...

So either Verducci left out the fact that it cleared the second sidewalk by 100 feet, or it didn't clear the second sidewalk by 100 feet (and by the way, I do believe it cleared the second sidewalk), and maybe they measured to the wrong mark on the brown, desert landscape.

Which seems more likely?

[gator92]

It got cut off, but a HIGH SCHOOL field probably 360' DOWN THE (right field) LINE? :faint:

Check the blue numbers at top left: 335 or so down the lines, around 400 to CF, that seems OK for a high-elevation high school field...

[mwiggins]

Be interesting to see if he stays at catcher. If he really that kind of exceptional hitter, would you you want him getting beat up behind the plate?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

It got cut off, but a HIGH SCHOOL field probably 360' DOWN THE (right field) LINE? :faint:

It happens sometimes. My high school field was 502 ft to dead center. They even had a "502 ft" sign.

[baseball junkie]

Anyone remember this guy? The next George Brett, apparently -- not.

[mwiggins]

Anyone remember this guy? The next George Brett, apparently -- not.

He doesn't have the cool eye black that Harper has.

[Berkman#17]

He did put on an impressive show last year in some all star tourney hitting BP with a wood bat. No 500+ foot shots, though. But that's a far cry from hitting live, quality pitching with a wood bat.

Which he has done at every tournament he's gone to, usually playing players 2-3 years older than he.


He's 16 and he already has that arrogant air about hi:m:

Difference between "my goal is to be" and "i'm going to be". Name one great player who didn't think the same way he did. You don't get far in this game with the attitude of "oh, i just hope to do well".



using probably the best aluminum bat money can buy

Actually was an older, non composite Stealth. Looked like it had some wear and tear on it.

What I don't get is, it seems like some of you are actually rooting for him to fail. Bringing up other guys that didn't pan out and blah blah blah. Who would want a kid with this kind of talent to fail? To save face incase the hype doesn't match the product? So that if Bryce doesn't work out as expected, the pseudo internet tough guys can say "See, I done told you so!"?

Even if this kid lives up to 90% of the hype, he's still going to be a special player. Last time I checked special players made the game that much more exciting. You'd think we'd all be wishing the best to all players like this.

Is it jealousy that he has more pub and accolades at 16 than some have had at 50? Is it just trying to be Nostradamus and predict failure so they can look smart? What is it with trying to run a kid like this down? See it here and at several other places. I say just sit back and hope for the best. If this kid works out, then the game is going to have another superstar. When has supertalent in the MLB ever been a bad thing?

[baseball junkie]

It's probably important to separate the hype from what he's actually being told by coaches, family, advisors, etc. (Things we'll never know.)

If Harper is a little cocky that's fine. I know I sure was when I was his age (I was supposed to have taken over the world by now :rolleyes: ). But if people are actually filling his head with ideas that sliced bread is the best thing since him, there's a problem -- and not just the one with plagiarism, since I stole that last line from http://www.mattwietersfacts.com/

Harper, however, could develop a sense of entitlement and grandiosity that will only hurt his maturation process, especially after he meets Scott Boras. I wish the best for him. Baseball could use some clean talent to wipe away the PED taint of the last 15 years. But we've also seen what filling kids' heads with "caviar dreams" can do before they've actually accomplished anything -- look at the first six or so years of Josh Hamilton's career or check out the story of the "great" Clint Hurdle.

If you need a concrete example of the damage this type of hype can have on a young mind, look no futher than the once top prospect for the NY Mets' Bill Pulsipher. His story is heart-rending. From the next Tom Seaver to a guy mowing grass for $8 an hour at the team's Single-A complex. Wiki him and you'll find the story does have a somewhat happy ending.

[OleMissCub]

I'm not sure where the ball is supposed to have landed in this photo, but here's the Verducci description:

The lefthanded Harper had hit the ball over the rightfield fence, two trees, another fence, a sidewalk, five lanes of traffic on elevated South Hollywood Boulevard and yet another sidewalk, until it finally landed in the brown, undeveloped desert.

IF this ball went 570 feet, it cleared the second sidewalk by around 100 feet, but that isn't mentioned in the description. Strange, most sportswriters I've ever read will wring an event for every last detail that helps make their point (in this case, that Harper is a tremendously powerful hitter, which he of course is, having hit a genuine 502 foot homer in front of my very own eyes in Tropicana Field)...

So either Verducci left out the fact that it cleared the second sidewalk by 100 feet, or it didn't clear the second sidewalk by 100 feet (and by the way, I do believe it cleared the second sidewalk), and maybe they measured to the wrong mark on the brown, desert landscape.

Which seems more likely?

Came across this somewhere:

[SABRSusan]

Well I'd rather hear him say that and be honest then give the canned lines of "I just wanna play ball and take it one step/day/game at a time, blah blah blah"

Quoted for emphasis. At 16, he should be dreaming big.

His mother says he will sometimes sleep with his bat. There's a joke in there somewhere, but I'm too much of a lady to make it.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Just a question. Can anyone name some hyped up teenagers that actually had HoF type careers?

Bob Feller
Willie Mays
Ken Griffey Jr
A-Rod
Hank Aaron
Mickey Mantle

[OleMissCub]

Not sure about their hype, but here are some other HOF-types that were first round picks out of high school:

Chipper Jones was a first overall pick

Manny was a first rounder

Yount was 3rd overall

Jeter was the 6th overall pick

Sheffield was also a 6th overall

Doc Gooden was 5th overall

Jim Rice was a 15th overall

Ted Simmons was 10th overall

Dale Murphy was 5th overall

Roy Halladay was a 1st round pick

Strawberry was 1st overall pick

Baines was 1st overall

[mwiggins]

Just a question. Can anyone name some hyped up teenagers that actually had HoF type careers?



Gary Sheffield

[DodgerBlue8188]

It's probably important to separate the hype from what he's actually being told by coaches, family, advisors, etc. (Things we'll never know.)

If Harper is a little cocky that's fine. I know I sure was when I was his age (I was supposed to have taken over the world by now :rolleyes: ). But if people are actually filling his head with ideas that sliced bread is the best thing since him, there's a problem -- and not just the one with plagiarism, since I stole that last line from http://www.mattwietersfacts.com/

Harper, however, could develop a sense of entitlement and grandiosity that will only hurt his maturation process, especially after he meets Scott Boras. I wish the best for him. Baseball could use some clean talent to wipe away the PED taint of the last 15 years. But we've also seen what filling kids' heads with "caviar dreams" can do before they've actually accomplished anything -- look at the first six or so years of Josh Hamilton's career or check out the story of the "great" Clint Hurdle.

If you need a concrete example of the damage this type of hype can have on a young mind, look no futher than the once top prospect for the NY Mets' Bill Pulsipher. His story is heart-rending. From the next Tom Seaver to a guy mowing grass for $8 an hour at the team's Single-A complex. Wiki him and you'll find the story does have a somewhat happy ending.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Pulsipher

I read it. Seems that his career was ruined more by injury than hype. Everytime he was doing well he got hurt.

[RubeBaker]

3 words for SI:

Todd Van Poppel.

[mwiggins]

3 words for SI:

Todd Van Poppel.

All you need is two words....Brien Taylor.

[JRH11]

I suspect that this SI article was a little bit premature to say the least
:blah:


Long term, may have done the poor kid a disservice.

[RubeBaker]

Long term, may have done the poor kid a disservice.

I agree. Personally, I don't know why ESPN or SI or whoever touts these young prospects as much as they do. In football or basketball, they can go pro and have a chance to start right away and prove themselves, so I can understand the early hype there. But in baseball, they're probably going to be in the minors at least a couple of years anyway, so it's not like they are going to be making any kind of immediate impact. A lot can happen in a couple of years, so to pick any baseball player as the next great is a little ridiculous.

[sturg1dj]

the amount of hype that goes into high school athletes seems to be getting bigger and bigger, and personally I find it kind of scary. Its one thing to have a faces in the crowd section its another to have a cover story on a 16 year old baseball player, or in ESPN the Mag when it has its story on who is next. Let the kids be kids.

[Allie Fox]

Anyone remember this guy? The next George Brett, apparently -- not.
Another one of SIs great greats of the moment:



Can anyone be this good? Yes. Pretty much anyone in AA or AAA ball.

[Buczilla]

3 words for SI:

Todd Van Poppel.

In all fairness, I think that Van Poppel was ruined by the A's who couldn't wait to get him upstairs. He wasn't ready for the big time only a year removed from high school at the age of 19. Just as he wasn't developed enough to be pitching in AAA at 20 and 21. At 21 some bonehead in the A's organization thought it would be beneficial to Van Poppel to remain and continue his development in the majors.

[RubeBaker]

In all fairness, I think that Van Poppel was ruined by the A's who couldn't wait to get him upstairs. He wasn't ready for the big time only a year removed from high school at the age of 19. Just as he wasn't developed enough to be pitching in AAA at 20 and 21. At 21 some bonehead in the A's organization thought it would be beneficial to Van Poppel to remain and continue his development in the majors.

Part of the problem was that Van Poppel signed a major league contract (much like Strasburg probably will) so he had a limited number of minor league options which meant his time in the minors was going to be short regardless.

Not blaming SI for Van Poppel's failure, just merely pointing out that he was touted very early by SI as one of the best prospects ever (not sure if he made the cover) but ultimately failed as a pro.

[TonyStarks]

All you need is two words....Brien Taylor.

Brien Taylor was on the fast track to stardom. The injury he suffered in a fight that tore the labrum in his pitching arm ended his career. Took him 2 years to come back. After that, his 98MPH fastball was gone. The radar readings would top out at 91 and his control was gone.

Todd Van Poppel and Brien Taylor are two different stories.

[BoSox Rule]

Harper is getting his GED and playing JuCo ball next year, making him eligible for the draft next June. Welcome to the Nationals.

Not bad, the Nats are getting Strasburg and Harper.

[NYMets523]

http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/cant_miss_prospects/intro.html?utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=link&utm_campaign=sports

[Rich the Giants fan]

In all fairness, I think that Van Poppel was ruined by the A's who couldn't wait to get him upstairs. He wasn't ready for the big time only a year removed from high school at the age of 19. Just as he wasn't developed enough to be pitching in AAA at 20 and 21. At 21 some bonehead in the A's organization thought it would be beneficial to Van Poppel to remain and continue his development in the majors.

Van Poppel's agent insisted on the ML contract and the fast track to the bigs.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

Harper will be in the 2010 draft! If taken #1 (very likely) I believe he'll be the youngest player ever picked at #1.



Bryce Harper to be eligible for 2010 MLB draft

Sunday, June 14, 2009 |

Posted by Jason A. Churchill

In Keith Law's look at the Class of 2010, the wild-card name was Las Vegas High School star Bryce Harper, a 16-year-old catcher who just completed his sophomore year.

Harper and his family told the Las Vegas Review-Journal yesterday that he's going to take his GED test this fall and has already enrolled at the College of Southern Nevada. These steps make Harper eligible for the 2010 Major League Baseball draft, greatly strengthening a rather average class.

The 6-foot-3, 205-pound Harper hit .626 with 14 home runs, 55 RBIs and 36 stolen bases this season for LVHS; he will play on the same CSN team as his older brother, Bryan, a left-handed pitcher transferring from Cal State Northridge for the 2010 season.

Harper has been the talk of the 2011 draft class since hitting a home run measured at 570 feet as a high school freshman, and displays plus tools across the board, including well above-average arm strength and foot speed.

If he completes the GED requirements and attends classes at CSN this fall as planned, he'll be the clear No. 1 talent in next June's class.

[Bennybosox]

Harper will be in the 2010 draft! If taken #1 (very likely) I believe he'll be the youngest player ever picked at #1.

WOW! That is some interesting and impressive news. I do believe that he would become the youngest palyer ever drafted #1 (and possibly the youngest ever drafted period, as international player aren't subject to the draft)--and quite possibly one of the youngest players drafted to ever make the Majors, as there is already some buzz about Boras wanting a major league deal combined with scouting reports saying that even now (16yo) his tools--at least offensively--are MLB ready?

I know that it has been done at some point, but not in the last 25 years or so-- but who was the last high school position player drafted that went straight to the majors?

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I know that it has been done at some point, but not in the last 25 years or so-- but who was the last high school position player drafted that went straight to the majors?

Here you go. Here is a list of all players drafted that went straight to the majors.



Year Player School Team Debut Date
1967 Mike Adamson, P University of Southern Cal Orioles July 1, 1967
1969 Steve Dunning, P Stanford University Indians June 14, 1970
1971 Burt Hooton,P University of Texas Cubs June 17, 1971
1971 Rob Ellis, IF Michigan State University Brewers June 18, 1971
1971 Pete Broberg, P Dartmouth College Senators June 20, 1971
1972 Dave Roberts, IF University of Oregon Padres June 7, 1972
1973 Dick Ruthven,P Fresno State University Phillies April 17, 1973
1973 Dave Winfield,OF University of Minnesota Padres June 19, 1973
1973 David Clyde, P Westchester High School Rangers June 27, 1973
1973 Eddie Bane,P Arizona State University Twins July 4, 1973
1978 Mike Morgan,P Valley High School A's June 11, 1978
1978 Bob Horner, IF Arizona State University Braves June 16, 1978
1978 Tim Conroy, P Gateway High School A's June 23, 1978
1978 Brian Milner, C Southwest High School Blue Jays June 23, 1978
1985 Pete Incaviglia, OF Oklahoma State University Expos April 8, 1986
1988 Jim Abbott,P University of Michigan Angels April 8, 1989
1989 John Olerud,IF Washington State Blue Jays Sept. 3, 1989
1993 Darren Dreifort, P Wichita State University Dodgers April 7, 1994
1995 Ariel Prieto, P Fajardo University (Cuba) A's July 2, 1995
2000 Xavier Nady, IF University of California Padres Sept. 3, 2000


Only one high school position player, Brian Milner in 1978, has ever went straight to the majors since the amatuer draft was instituted in 1965. It's interesting that sending drafted players to the majors was far more common in the 1970's. I suspect the reason is that teams fianlly realized that sending a drafted palyer straight to the majors is a bad idea. It hinder's a player's development.

[Rich the Giants fan]

Milner played 2 games in his big league career, although he was 4-for-9. Hit well in the minors that year, but tailed off big time afterwards and was out of baseball by 22.

[baseball junkie]

MLB allows its organizations to sign a 16-year-old athlete to a contract if that person does not reside in the United States. As I can hear Scott Boras saying already, why should someone be penalized just because he was born in the USA?

I do wonder if this will change draft rules, setting a minimum age or number of months after a high school graduating class before a player becomes eligible -- unless this becomes a trend it probably won't.

I hope Mr. Harper is :supe: or this is going to turn out horribly.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I really don't understand the hoopla of Harper coming out early? The SF Giants signed top prospect Angel Villalona at age 16. Villalona is now 18 years and playing in the California League doing well for himself. Many, many other Latin players have signed at age 16 as well. If Harper is as good as his hpye he should sail through the low minors at least.

[DodgerBlue8188]

At first I was like OMG :thumbsdown: he's leaving high school early. But then I got to thinking of how a high school diploma isn't much these days anyway. He'll have his GED which isn't much but these days neither is a high school diploma. He's actually going to a Jr. College so he will be taking college level courses.

He's just in a position where staying at high school really isn't going to benefit him. He may never set foot in a major league stadium as a player but what he needs is that signing bonus. As long as he gets that he'll be set for life given his decisions are smart in what he does. He can always go back to college with the money he signs for.

It might be good for him to be around people 19-24 instead of teenagers.

[dominik]

MLB allows its organizations to sign a 16-year-old athlete to a contract if that person does not reside in the United States. As I can hear Scott Boras saying already, why should someone be penalized just because he was born in the USA?

I do wonder if this will change draft rules, setting a minimum age or number of months after a high school graduating class before a player becomes eligible -- unless this becomes a trend it probably won't.

I hope Mr. Harper is :supe: or this is going to turn out horribly.

I think it is because there is some US law against hirering minors or malking contracts with minors.

[Honus Wagner Rules]

I think it is because there is some US law against hirering minors or malking contracts with minors.

Ken Griffey Jr. was drafted and signed as 17 year old.

[Captain Cold Nose]

I think it is because there is some US law against hirering minors or malking contracts with minors.

Don't movie and recording studios do that all the time?

[sturg1dj]

they have special contracts where their guardians have to sign as well. That is what Kobe Bryant had to do.

[Captain Cold Nose]

they have special contracts where their guardians have to sign as well. That is what Kobe Bryant had to do.

And that's what Harper undoubtedly will do. Unless he becomes emancipated.