All Star selection process

[kairosntx]

I wanted to get some opinions on the process used by our local Little League. After reviewing several of the selection processes used at various leagues (at least those that post the policy online) it seems our league is a little archaic and whether or not there is any, the possibility for 'corruption' exists. Basically only the board members vote for all stars players and managers AND the process is done in private.

Here is how the board currently selects all stars:

Section 23: ALL-STARS, SELECTION OF COACHES, PLAYERS
SLECTION PANEL: The FCLL Majors and Minors All-Star coaches and players will be chosen by a panel of FCLL board members and/or league-affiliated personnel as duly appointed by the league president by the midpoint of the regular season schedule.
MANAGERS/COACHES: That panel will initially determine the managers and coach(es) for the Majors and Minors All-Star teams that will represent the league in postseason tournaments. By the second weekend in May, or a date determined by the panel, managers in Majors and Minors will be asked to submit nominations for All-Star managers (preferred method will be for each coach to submit two-three choices, listed in order of preference, though a coach will be unable to vote for themselves). Based on those recommendations, but NOT bound by results of that vote that will NOT be made public, the FCLL panel will chose the manager and coach(es). That decision will not be based solely on the record of the coach’s regular league team, but also character, the ability to work with players, parents and league officials, and the ability to make the time commitments to be available to conduct practices and participate in postseason tournaments for whatever length of time such teams are not eliminated from play.
PLAYERS: By the final weekend of May, or at a date determined by the FCLL panel, each manager in Majors or Minors will be asked to submit nominations of players to be part of the All-Star teams. The written nominations by the coaches should include player’s names, primary position(s) played, and a short description on why the player should be considered for All-Stars. Those nominations will be taken and converted into a ballot for the FCLL panel (and team manager, at the discretion of the panel) to use to determine the All-Star teams. Each All-Star team will include 12 players, with up to three alternates, and a manager and assistant coach. An effort will be made to include at least one player from each team on the appropriate All-Star teams (Majors and Minors), but is not guaranteed. The goal is to select players that will best represent the character of FCLL, and also provide a competitive group representing our best players on the field who can play together as a team. Another consideration for player selection will be if the players will be available to attend all practices and games for whatever length of time such teams are not eliminated from play.
All-Star teams can NOT be announced or begin practice prior to dates set by Little League, in accordance to national policy and based on starting dates of tournaments.

[AgentX]

There is no LL All-Star player/coach selection process that isn't subject to, and rife with corruption.

Deal with it.

[ralanprod]

There is no LL All-Star player/coach selection process that isn't subject to, and rife with corruption.

Deal with it.

So true.

Our league selects the players first by a vote of the coaches, then from the players selected, if there is a father who was a head coach, he would be offered the all star head coaching job. This year we had a cabal of coaches that wouldn't vote for the sons of coaches who weren't in their "group" to ensure that one of them would be selected to be the head coach. (This info came to me from the VP who counted the ballots)

Classy guys - just doin' it for the kids...

[rkbenn]

No perfect way of doing it.

If you're a player that wants to make these teams. Hit the ball, make plays, and of course pitch. I tell my son that he has to leave no doubt that he is the best player, because dad doesn't play the LL daddy ball game.

[Jake Patterson]

Our League the BOD selects the head coach. All coaches vote on all but two players. Head coach selects the last two players and his assistants.

The BOD doesn't always agree on who the HC should be. I believe it should be the person who best deserves it and can best represent our community and league. Others feel it should be the regular season winner.

Jake

[mightylakers]

In our league, AS players and manager are voted by all the teams. Each team send in their top 10 list. Top 20 vote getter are listed on the board. The first 10 are automatically in. After the manager is selected he will choose the next 2 to 5 players.

Of course there are behind the curtain politics but overall it is a pretty fair process.

I've never been a coach but my son got selected year in year out. As some other ppl pointed out. It is usually the last 2 to 5 players got a little controversy, if any.

[RodCarew]

My son plays in Junior Baseball - there are no "Allstar" teams.. but the top kids try out for a Federal team in each division before the season starts.

12 kids make the team - the board chooses the team based on 1, 2 hour practice session.

That team plays 45-60 games during the year (22 league games and the rest tournament, county and state playoffs)

The nice thing about it is the High School Baseball coach is on the board and has a lot of power who makes the Fed team.. this program is a feeder system right to the HS program.

Every year there are a handful of parents who complain and cry that their kid didn't make it because they refuse to "play politics" etc, etc.

My son tried out this year and was the last kid cut, #13 out of 40 or so who tried out.. I had no problem with it.

The way I see it is there are 4-5 kids that are clearly the best kids in the area and then you could make an argument for kids 6-20, roughly.

I called a couple guys I know on the board after the decisions were made and asked what my son needed to improve on if he wanted to try out again next time..they gave me some honest feedback that I shared with my son.

He has said it is important to him to make that team in the future and wants to work on the areas that were identified by the coaches on the board.

[shake-n-bake]

kairosntx,

I think your league's system blows. Regardless if there's any impropriety or not going on behind closed doors, it'll always be thought that there is.

Our league's process isn't perfect (none are), but there's transperency and I think most every kid with potential to make the team(s) are given at least an opportunity to try-out. Every coach nominates kids. You've got 3 coaches on each team, so you're going to get a lot of different kids nominated. If the kid gets one nomination - he tries out the same as if he was on every coaches ballot.

Like others have said, in reality what you have is some kids that are clearly deserving, some that aren't in the same talent range, and a fairly large group of bubble kids competing for 3 or 4 spots. There's a series of cuts and in the end, there's your team - mostly fair process, especially when the coaches have got the last group of bubble kids basically competing head to head. Always room for debate, but ......

[tadlock11]

All Star Selection Process from our league:

Selection Committee consists of Player Agent, President, LL League VP, and Senior LL VP.

Step 1: Player Selection

The Player Agent will send out notice to each team and request the names of all players who wish to be considered for selection to the all-star team during the month of May. Each team manager is responsible for submitting the names of the players interested as well as declarations from any players not wishing to be considered to the Player Agent within 7 days of receiving the ballot. Players will be reminded that those selected will have committed prior to selection, to complete the All-star season, and any absence after the first day of practice will be cause for replacement, at the discretion of the manager.

The managers and coaches of record in each league will meet in a separate meeting called by the Player Agent with at least 7 days prior notice. The manager and coach of record for each team in each separate league in the Majors, Minors, and Pee-Wee divisions shall vote on all eligible players in their own league after being presented a list by the Player Agent of all eligible players. Before voting for players to be on the list presented to the All-star manager, a discussion will occur for all present to have input on players being considered for the team. During this process, any information divulged is to remain confidential and not discussed outside the selection meeting. A minimum of 14 and a maximum of 20 must be voted on. Any ballot that has less than fourteen (14) or more than twenty (20) votes will not be counted. The ballot completed by those manager/coaches present and voting will be ranked in order of the player’s ability with votes being counted as ranked below. The top (20) and ties will be placed on the list to be presented to the All-star manager by the Player Agent. If at any time there is a name that he or she feels would be an asset to the team, he or she shall have the option to add one (1) name to the list.






1 = 20 11 = 10
2 = 19 12 = 9
3 = 18 13 = 8
4 = 17 14 = 7
5 = 16 15 = 6
6 = 15 16 = 5
7 = 14 17 = 4
8 = 13 18 = 3
9 = 12 19 = 2
10 = 11 20 = 1

Managers must always maintain a minimum of twelve (12) player roster for the All-star team. An alternate chosen from the remaining list of (20) or more if ties, (21 if wild card option was exercised) must be pulled to the All-star team roster in the event that a player is physically unable to play for an extended period of time, i.e., broken arm, leg, etc.

Step 2: Tabulating Results
During the All Star balloting, The President and/or Senior Vice-President, Little League Vice-President, and the Player agent shall be present. They shall tabulate the votes, whose outcome will remain confidential until the day of announcement. No fewer than two (2) of these members must be present for the tabulation to be considered official and complete.

Step 3: All-Star Manager Selection

The All-Star team Manager will be selected by vote of the Board of Directors in a special meeting called for that purpose. The Board of Directors will select the All-Star Manager in each applicable League and Division from the team manager which won the regular season championship in their League and Division. The 2nd place manager will be considered eligible should the 1st place Manager decline consideration. (Major Division for 11 year old teams and 12 year old teams, Minor Division for 10 year old teams, Pee Wee Division for 9 year old teams).

Should both the Manager of the winner of the League/Division be ruled ineligible to represent the league by the Board of Directors because of poor standing within Pearland Little League (including, but not limited to; unmet financial obligations, recurring poor displays of sportsmanship, etc…) then the Board of Directors may elect a different candidate for All-Star Manager.
Prior to this occurring, any candidate ruled ineligible will be given opportunity to appear before the board and state their case regarding possible selection as All-Star Manager.

Once the All-Star Manager is approved, he/she may select up to two eligible coaches of record to assist them as All Star Coach. These must be regular season Managers or Coaches of record as provided for in the Tournament Section of the Little League Baseball Rules and Regulations.
Step 7: Final All Star Team Selection

The All Star Manager and Coach(s) will be given the final results of the All Star Voting from Step 2. The team must have a minimum of 12 players, with a maximum of 14 players. If the team only has 12 players, then only one coach of record may accompany the manager in the dugout per the Little League Tournament Rules. The top six vote getters are automatically on the All Star team with an exception for ties involving the 6th spot that would require more than 6 players to be automatically placed on the team. Should a tie for votes involving the 6th spot occur that would require more than 6 players to be automatically placed on the team, then, all players involved in the tie will not automatically be placed on the team. The Manager is highly encouraged to fill the roster with the next highest ranking players. If he chooses to fill the roster with players other than those highest ranking, then he must provide sufficient justification to the Selection Committee. This allows the manager the ability to fill the roster based on needs at positions not fully represented in the top six players. Team will be announced at earliest date provided by Little League Rules. All results and details regarding the All Star Selection Process must remain confidential.

Team will be announced at earliest date provided by Little League Rules. All results and details regarding the All Star Selection Process must remain confidential.

[azmatsfan]

Our LL lets the players each vote for their top 6 from the list of applicants. The top 6 vote getters are on the team. The next 4 are chosen by the managers. The final 2-4 are chosen by the AS manager. This gives him the opportunity to make sure he has enough pitchers, catchers, etc. I know some outside our league have said they'd worry the kids would just vote for their friends, but based on past results in our league, the kids may be the least biassed. They know the abilities of the kids better than anyone and want the best team to represent the league. I was surprised this year when my son told me he didn't vote for one of his best friends because in his mind he was probably the 7th or 8th best player.

[kairosntx]

Thank you VERY much for the replies.

Despite Agent X's advise to just deal with it, I agree with shake-n-bake that our leagues process is far from ideal. I realize there is no perfect system but if it can be improved upon, why not? I really am just interested in improving our league for the future. This is my sons last year in the local league.

[Ursa Major]

Kai, any system that has the decision made by the Board sounds really shaky, unless there've been some bad experiences in the past with 'log-rolling' among coaches, where they manipulate the system to benefit favored coaches. Board members don't attend the games regularly enough to make judgments as to who's the best player.

I disagree with the system in Tadlock's league whereby the manager of the regular season's championship team is automatically the All-star manager. Why is he automatically the best choice? Some years by chance one team is just loaded with good pitchers, and the manager doesn't have to do much other than put their names on the line-up cards to assure victory. One year, a dominant 9-10 y/o team succeeded in part because the manager scared the weaker kids either off the team or from showing up each week, so they'd have only their top nine or ten players there -- which makes a huge difference when you have a continuous batting order. His team won the championship and then he was furious when the remaining coaches and the league refused to make him the All-star manager.

Also, an All-star manager often has a much greater administrative function in terms of finding tournaments and the like than he ever did in league play, and some just aren't very good at it.

[AgentX]

Thank you VERY much for the replies.

Despite Agent X's advise to just deal with it, I agree with shake-n-bake that our leagues process is far from ideal. I realize there is no perfect system but if it can be improved upon, why not? I really am just interested in improving our league for the future. This is my sons last year in the local league.

I doubt you'll have much luck improving your league's system, but I admire your desire to do so.

The sad fact is that these systems are all corruptible because the parents who run them need/want them to be. So even though better systems exist, IME, you won't find too many who agree with your will to change.

Good luck though.

[ctandc]

Our LL does it this way:

the kids are given ballots after a play off game. They pick 12 kids from a sheet that has every kid on every Majors team.

All Majors teams do this.

The All Star committee takes those ballots and counts votes.

It then ranks the top 10 vote getters.

Next every Majors Manager nominates every kid from his team that he thinks should be on the All Star Team.

The All Star committee then takes ALL the kids nominated by Team Managers. They vote, as a group, on each kid. They then rank those kids by how many votes they received.

The All Star manager is picked by the All Star committee, from the coaches that put in applications. The potential manager must have Managed or coached a regular season team.

The selected All Star manager then gets the lists of voting rankings for the players.

He has to offer a spot on the team to the TOP 4 vote getters from the kid vote.

He then has to offer a spot on the team to the top 6 vote getters on the Manager Vote Rankings.

The Manager then gets 2 discretionary picks from the kids on the Managers voting list.


It's worked well for us.

[songtitle]

Every season that I have ever been involved with AS, it's handled a different way.

Know the system before the season starts.

[Ursa Major]

Know the system before the season starts.And this helps . . . . how? By telling you whom to pay off? :rolleyes: You can't let the system control how you want your kid to play, can you?

What I think is more important is to make sure that you know -- and it has been made public -- what the system is before the votes are counted. I've seen disappointed parent/board members monkey with the system afterward to make sure their kid makes the 'right' team. (Our league has two AS teams for most divisions, with the better players placed on the 'blue' team, which gets sent to the more competitive tournaments.)

[songtitle]

And this helps . . . . how? By telling you whom to pay off? :rolleyes: You can't let the system control how you want your kid to play, can you?


I'm going to hold my tongue here. Pay off ? :ughh

If the winning coach is the AS coach, then you might imagine that makes a difference.

[Ursa Major]

I'm going to hold my tongue here. Pay off ? :ughhJus' kiddin' :rolleyes:
If the winning coach is the AS coach, then you might imagine that makes a difference.You got that right -- which is precisely why the winning coach should NOT be given a free pass to manage the All-star team, particularly in that the All-star manager in most leagues is given carte blanche to put his own kid on the team.

A couple of years ago the Board of our league at the last moment decided to give the Division presidents a vote equal to each manager on All-star selection, apparently because some board members feared that the coaches wouldn't the right decisions about their kids and they knew that the division presidents -- who they themselves had appointed, would be more pliable. (The division presidents' jobs are to (a) run the draft, (b) craft a schedule, and (c) arbitrate disputes.) The president of of the 7-8 y/o division was both out team's manager and was the coach of his daughter's softball team, and hadn't been to a single 7-8 y/o game all year and wondered how'n'ell he was supposed to cast a vote without relying on people he trusted ... which of course is entirely the reason he and the other division presidents were given a vote.

[tadlock11]

I disagree with the system in Tadlock's league whereby the manager of the regular season's championship team is automatically the All-star manager. Why is he automatically the best choice?

Ursa, the way I understand it as was explained to me is that the regular season champ (manager) is the favorite but the board must vote/approve. I know a few years ago the manager of first place team did NOT get the AS team because the BOD did not want him there (personal reasons they all agreed upon I assume).