At what level is it ok for the coach to get ejected?

[jbolt_2000]

OK, had a rough game last night and I was ready to go off on the ump. However, I knew that it was not in the best interest of the kids and goes against what I teach them the whole season.

I coach LL Majors (11-12). We were missing an umpire for the game and the home team provided one of the parents who as ump'd 1 or 2 games before. I agreed to it and the game began.

I can go into all the bad calls I saw but the bottomline was we did not get one called third strike on any of their batters and our batters got rung up all night on bad pitches. We walked 5-6 batters with belly button high strikes that the ump called too high. We were called out at slides to third and home even though we slid under the tag. He walked a batter on a two/two count. Etc, etc, etc... I argued several calls, but was always prfessional and curtious. I'm sure all you coaches have been there too.

Well, I was joking with my assistant about which one of us should call the umpire on all the bad calls and get get ejected. Now mind you, I would never do this at this level, especially as I teach my kids to respect the umpires regardless of the calls. I made sure my kids still shook the ump's hand after the game as I have them do every game.

My kids knew it was a poorly called game too, but I explained to them that it was not a regular umpire and that we were lucky to have someone at all otherwise we would not be able to play. I explain to them that they can only control how they react to the adversity, rather than try to change things out of their control. They understood, but still made comments about his calls.

Anyways, it got me thinking - Of all the coaches here, what do you think is the right level of play to say "Hey, these kids know this game and they need me to stand up for them and argue this umpire. If he ejects me then the kids know I have their back."?

Is not appropriate til high school? Earlier? Or does it depend on say the level of play? Is it ok, in tournament ball with 11-12 year olds, but not ok in LL?

Just curious on your thoughts and past experience.

[RodCarew]

I help coach at the same age group (Junior Baseball not LL).. and our league has a rule that if you get tossed - you have to sit out the next game too.. I think two ejections and you are suspended indefinitely.

There has to be a way to communicate what you see as a problem without getting tossed.

I wouldn't really have too much of a problem if my sons coach got tossed - I'd just use it as another learning tool for my kid, talk to him about what happened and why the coach reacted the way he did.

[songtitle]

12 is ok if you do it in a gentlemanly manner :)

[jbolt_2000]

I help coach at the same age group (Junior Baseball not LL).. and our league has a rule that if you get tossed - you have to sit out the next game too.. I think two ejections and you are suspended indefinitely.

There has to be a way to communicate what you see as a problem without getting tossed.

I wouldn't really have too much of a problem if my sons coach got tossed - I'd just use it as another learning tool for my kid, talk to him about what happened and why the coach reacted the way he did.

As my assistant and I were talking I tossed him the rule book and asked him to look up how many games it would cost me if I got ejected. We only have one game left so I told him that if it is more than this game then he has to go argue the ump.

In the end we just had to laugh it off because it was so bad.

[shake-n-bake]

Majors LL would be the very soonest I could see actually caring enough about the calls / outcome of the game to get in a situation where you might be thrown out.

I think its more about not being an arse. You should be able to make your point with the umpire without making a spectacle of yourself. A couple things though. jb did the right thing, your 11/12 team can't in any way get the idea that missed calls by the umpire relieve them of their responsibility to win the game on the field. They have to know they must play through. The other thing is that you take the high road as much as possible. I'd rather go have a discussion with an umpire and roll the dice that it doesn't unexpectedly go way south, than have comments circulating around the dugout.

[Jake Patterson]

I don't feel it's ever appropriate. 40 seasons - never got tossed.

[shake-n-bake]

I don't feel it's ever appropriate. 40 seasons - never got tossed.

That is impressive! There had to have been a few close calls in 40 years?

[skipper5]

Twelve year olds would get a kick out of seeing their mgr. ejected. It wouldn't be some sort of trauma for them.

But, inviting an ejection sends exactly the wrong message: emotionally reacting to events beyond your control (an umpire's judgement calls) instead of keeping your head in the game and soldiering on regardless--important for their future in sports, and in life.

I haven't gotten tossed in 15 seasons. I was talking this winter to the best girl's HS basketball coach in our conference. He started coaching almost 40 years ago, and has never gotten a single technical. His teams are known locally to be extremely resilient and mentally tough. His equanimity on the bench is impressive. His girls feed off of it, while some of the opposing coaches are throwing tantrums.

[shake-n-bake]

Twelve year olds would get a kick out of seeing their mgr. ejected. It wouldn't be some sort of trauma for them.

But, inviting an ejection sends exactly the wrong message: emotionally reacting to events beyond your control (an umpire's judgement calls) instead of keeping your head in the game and soldiering on regardless--important for their future in sports, and in life.

True. These aren't all your kids on your team, the other team and in the crowd. Like I said, what's really important is to take the high road. I don't think that means stewing over calls in the dugout though. Have your chats with the umpire so as not to show anyone up. If that gets you ejected, then so be it.

Not everyone is built the same. Some people wear their emotions on their sleeve while others are more in control of their emotions. If you're a person that lets it loose, then you've got to hold back @ 11/12, 13/14, and maybe even HS. Then again, if your players know and expect that from you, then I think there's some point where there's almost an expectation by the players to let an umpire have both barrels.

[old perfessor]

I don't think it's appropriate unless your ballplayers are getting paid to play. In other words, if it ain't pro ball, don't argue with the ump. Question him, ask him to explain, but never argue.

[Jake Patterson]

That is impressive! There had to have been a few close calls in 40 years?
40 season- many years I did school ball and summer ball....

The approached I always used when questioning a call is I would call time out and go to the umpire and say, "Blue help me understand that call (ruling)." He got the message.... and on a few occasions... I learned a few things.

[mudvnine]

I gotta agree with Jake, there is never an appropriate age level at which the manager should think it's okay "to get ejected".

I've never understood the mentality that, "If he ejects me then the kids know I have their back" or how that has any relevance to the game or future games. Don't your players already know you "have their back"?

I've never watched a MLB manager get ejected and then said to myself, "Wow, that manager sure is standing up for his guys"; never really saw the correlation between an ejection and how my players would possibly respect me more. :confused: :noidea

[scorekeeper]

I gotta agree with Jake, there is never an appropriate age level at which the manager should think it's okay "to get ejected".

I've never understood the mentality that, "If he ejects me then the kids know I have their back" or how that has any relevance to the game or future games. Don't your players already know you "have their back"?

I've never watched a MLB manager get ejected and then said to myself, "Wow, that manager sure is standing up for his guys"; never really saw the correlation between an ejection and how my players would possibly respect me more. :confused: :noidea

This is another pretty good example of baseball dogma, and if anyone really thinks about it, if getting run was such a GOOD thing, why not get run every game? And heck, why wait until there’s a controversial play? At the pre-game meeting, just get in the blue’s face and tell him/her you ain’t takin’ none of his BS! Wouldn’t that get the team all pumped and ready to eat fire and crap brimstone and win a bunch of games for the martyr coach?

But now that I think about it, maybe it is a good idea! If all the coaches got run, that would leave the kids to play on their own! Now there’s an idea I could get behind!!

:applaud::clapping

[Jake Patterson]

I think that by implying the "have your back" arguement you have to make the assumption that the umpire is there to make bad calls against your team or good calls for your opponents. If you truly feel this is true then a call to the administering umpiring agency would be in order.

If you feel the above is NOT the case then what lessons are you trying to teach/learn by arguing with an ump and getting tossed?

[bluezebra]

OK, had a rough game last night and I was ready to go off on the ump. However, I knew that it was not in the best interest of the kids and goes against what I teach them the whole season.

I coach LL Majors (11-12). We were missing an umpire for the game and the home team provided one of the parents who as ump'd 1 or 2 games before. I agreed to it and the game began.

I can go into all the bad calls I saw but the bottomline was we did not get one called third strike on any of their batters and our batters got rung up all night on bad pitches. We walked 5-6 batters with belly button high strikes that the ump called too high. We were called out at slides to third and home even though we slid under the tag. He walked a batter on a two/two count. Etc, etc, etc... I argued several calls, but was always prfessional and curtious. I'm sure all you coaches have been there too.

Well, I was joking with my assistant about which one of us should call the umpire on all the bad calls and get get ejected. Now mind you, I would never do this at this level, especially as I teach my kids to respect the umpires regardless of the calls. I made sure my kids still shook the ump's hand after the game as I have them do every game.

My kids knew it was a poorly called game too, but I explained to them that it was not a regular umpire and that we were lucky to have someone at all otherwise we would not be able to play. I explain to them that they can only control how they react to the adversity, rather than try to change things out of their control. They understood, but still made comments about his calls.

Anyways, it got me thinking - Of all the coaches here, what do you think is the right level of play to say "Hey, these kids know this game and they need me to stand up for them and argue this umpire. If he ejects me then the kids know I have their back."?

Is not appropriate til high school? Earlier? Or does it depend on say the level of play? Is it ok, in tournament ball with 11-12 year olds, but not ok in LL?

Just curious on your thoughts and past experience.

You agreed to let an untrained, non-qualified parent (from the opposing team no less) umpire the game. Live with it.

Bob

[coach scotty]

In 23 games my Senior year our coach was tossed 10 of them. I never thought he had our back. I just thought he was a D@&khead.

The only time I think it appropriate is in the pros when a players is arguing with an ump and you know the player is about to get tossed and the coach jumps on the grenade so to speak. Better the coach than the player.

[AgentX]

In 23 games my Senior year our coach was tossed 10 of them. I never thought he had our back. I just thought he was a D@&khead.

The only time I think it appropriate is in the pros when a players is arguing with an ump and you know the player is about to get tossed and the coach jumps on the grenade so to speak. Better the coach than the player.

Absolutely.

And developing players need to take responsibility for their own actions.

[skipper5]

Coaches that allow themselves to get heated up about umpires really screw up the way their teams play.

They turn their teams into a bunch of whining, alibying attorneys. I've seen it too many times to count.

[Marc]

I asked my wife what her answer to this question was this morning....she said "Never." My son is 8...lots of baseball to go. This could get tricky several years from now. I'm not the best person at keeping my mouth shut. (I'm always nice and respectful...but with that sarcastic grin that people just hate. :blush: )

[Jake Patterson]

Having been exposed to all types of coaches, I would offer those who demonstrate control - do better with the umpires.

[Baseball gLove]

I think that one of my son's 10U coaches should have been tossed several times.

[Moonlight Grahm]

Coaches are there to coach players not umpires. If you get caught up concentrating too much on every call the umpire makes that takes time away from getting the kids better. I understand "taking up for payers" and all that but I don't see how getting ejected will do anything to improve your team. From my experience most umps take more exception to a coach arguing about a call from a loud boisterous coach than someone asking for an explanation in a calm, controlled manner. I think a coach that loudly complains about a call for everyone to hear kind of backs the ump into a corner and forces the ump to respond with an ejection. I umpired a couple of years until my son was old enough to play and then started coaching him so I have been on both sides. The coaching side is more fun.

[jbolt_2000]

You agreed to let an untrained, non-qualified parent (from the opposing team no less) umpire the game. Live with it.

Bob


I know that, and I did. I gave the story for the basis of the conversation.

I guess it wasn't so clear.

[Mark H]

I can't see seeking a purpose ejection in league ball. I don't have a problem with a hs coach doing it once in a great while. Only time I did it was select ball at an out of town tourney. Base ump blew two calls in a row at first by a full stride. Once we were on offense and then on defense. I felt like we needed to either wake this guy up or get people watching him whether he was doing it on purpose or not. Had plenty of good coaches with me so I wasn't needed. After second call I came blowing out of the dug out yelling if he did that again he was going to have to throw me out of there so of course he immediately obliged. I stayed around long and loud enough I got people from all around the complex watching. I missed the game but he didn't miss any more calls by all reports. Tournament director told him "I was the quietest most polite coach he knew and though he didn't see the first call he definitely did miss the second call". I later told the kids that sort of thing is rarely appropriate for a coach and never appropriate for a player. That's the one time for me.