View Full Version : Mike Epstein sitting down on back leg
baseballislife97
06-02-2009, 06:59 AM
Mike Epstein says that on higher pitches you stay on top of your axis more than you would on a low pitch. On pitches that are at the knees you will sit back (behind axis) by hinging the back knee. I certainly don't see this in MLB players.
Can someone give me some tips to get off the back side?
Coach G
06-02-2009, 08:58 AM
Behind axis? Hinged back Knee?
Ya I think so
Mark H
06-02-2009, 09:27 AM
TG? I think you missed his point.
Baseballislife, good for you for comparing what anyone says to video of the best.
baseballislife97
06-02-2009, 09:38 AM
Behind axis? Hinged back Knee?
Ya I think so
What i am saying is that i don't see pro hitters "sitting" on their back leg"
songtitle
06-02-2009, 10:00 AM
I am confused. All your weight has shifted to the front foot before you decide where the pitch is. So how would you maneuver your free hanging back leg for a low pitch?
ralanprod
06-02-2009, 10:24 AM
I've often thought Mike was looking at the same pictures and seeing them as the cause - rather than the result of a good swing.
I am confused. All your weight has shifted to the front foot before you decide where the pitch is. So how would you maneuver your free hanging back leg for a low pitch?
Joking right? Please tell me you are joking.
songtitle
06-02-2009, 10:48 AM
Joking right? Please tell me you are joking.
Do you start your swing before your toe touches?
Coach G
06-02-2009, 10:59 AM
I am confused. All your weight has shifted to the front foot before you decide where the pitch is. So how would you maneuver your free hanging back leg for a low pitch?
WHAT????????? That statement is what is confusing. Just a question do you really honestly believe that. Think about it.
songtitle
06-02-2009, 11:05 AM
WHAT????????? That statement is what is confusing. Just a question do you really honestly believe that. Think about it.
When do you begin your weight shift?
400 milliseconds total.
150 mark to see the ball.
225 mark to decide if it's in the zone and decide the type of swing to use.
Then, it takes 150-175 milliseconds to execute the swing.
I am saying, at the 225 mark, your toe should be on the ground and your weight will have shifted to the front.
Coach G
06-02-2009, 04:45 PM
All I'm saying is that if you have shifted your weight into the front side before you recognize location and pitch type then good luck hitting anything off speed.
Do you start your swing before your toe touches?
Yes I do but my son does not. He is a non strider.
The weight doesn't fully transfer untilcontact or possibly 1 frame prior to contact.
The swing is launched with the weight back. the swing its self will weight the front foot.
The front foot is there to catch the swing.
If you weight your front foot before you swing you will not stand a chance in the MLB.
songtitle
06-02-2009, 08:23 PM
If you weight your front foot before you swing you will not stand a chance in the MLB.
I bet this Jones guy will have a short career
I bet this Jones guy will have a short career
This was your original post.
I am confused. All your weight has shifted to the front foot before you decide where the pitch is. So how would you maneuver your free hanging back leg for a low pitch?
Now are you sure all of his weight is on his front foot. I would actually say none of his weight is on his front foot. It is still back. He looks like he is testing to see how cold the water is in the pool.
Would like to see the rest of the clip because I would bet that his weight starts to lower and the swing is launched from the backside with his front foot catching.
Slapper23
06-03-2009, 05:14 AM
All your weight has shifted to the front foot before you decide where the pitch is.
Keep studying.
Baseballislife, good for you for comparing what anyone says to video of the best.
Thank you, Mr. Peabody! :bowdown:
Sherman
Mark H
06-03-2009, 09:46 AM
What i am saying is that i don't see pro hitters "sitting" on their back leg"
I assumed you were saying you don't see ML hitters using variations in the back knee to adjust for pitch height. Apparently I missed your point as well.
baseballislife97
06-03-2009, 01:44 PM
I assumed you were saying you don't see ML hitters using variations in the back knee to adjust for pitch height. Apparently I missed your point as well.
I don't see them adjusting there leg position or axis. It looks to me that they stay the same.
baseballislife97
06-03-2009, 01:47 PM
I don't see them adjusting there leg position or axis. It looks to me that they stay the same.
I meant leg angle. Epstein says on low pitches you might see the leg angle less than 90 degrees and on high pitches more than 90 degrees.
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 03:39 PM
I meant leg angle. Epstein says on low pitches you might see the leg angle less than 90 degrees and on high pitches more than 90 degrees.
Not in a high level swing. There is more tilt on the lower pitches. IMO. there is small changes in body angles that may give the appearance the back leg is bent more on the low pitches, but you don't sit on your backside.
I don't think it is taught by the Epstein instructors anymore.
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 04:00 PM
I meant leg angle. Epstein says on low pitches you might see the leg angle less than 90 degrees and on high pitches more than 90 degrees.
Not in a high level swing. There is more tilt on the lower pitches. IMO. there is small changes in body angles that may give the appearance the back leg is bent more on the low pitches, but you don't sit on your backside.
I don't think it is taught by the Epstein instructors anymore.
Berkman#17
06-03-2009, 04:15 PM
I bet this Jones guy will have a short career
Where is his weight in that picture? It's on his back leg. It has not shifted.
You clearly do not understand the difference between momentum and weight shift.
Go ahead, keep shifting your weight forward before deciding to swing. Pitchers will love you for it.
songtitle
06-03-2009, 04:21 PM
Where is his weight in that picture? It's on his back leg. It has not shifted.
You clearly do not understand the difference between momentum and weight shift.
Go ahead, keep shifting your weight forward before deciding to swing. Pitchers will love you for it.
So, we should shift our weight forward after we start our swing?
So, we should shift our weight forward after we start our swing?
The swing shifts the weight.
The weight is shifting throughout the swing with most, if not all, of your weight into your front foot at or just before contact.
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 06:18 PM
The swing shifts the weight.
The weight is shifting throughout the swing with most, if not all, of your weight into your front foot at or just before contact.
I feel it has a role, but IMO it comes a split sec before and finished off with the swing. When I swing a bat i feel my weight shift just prior, building momentum. When looking at Don Slaught's examination of Manny's swing, weight shift to me looked like it started from his core.
http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=4030344
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 07:46 PM
I am confused. All your weight has shifted to the front foot before you decide where the pitch is. So how would you maneuver your free hanging back leg for a low pitch?
Yeager would agree with you songtitle
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 07:53 PM
Yeager would agree with you songtitle
It depends on what camp you're in, or beliefs. I'm in my own camp and not swayed by camps, unless they prove me wrong, which has happened!
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 08:06 PM
Not talking about "camps" just that Yeager talks about the back leg firing on every pitch whether you swing or not---"The back leg loads and unloads (shifts/pushes/abducts) on every pitch."
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 08:11 PM
Not talking about "camps" just that Yeager talks about the back leg firing on every pitch whether you swing or not---"The back leg loads and unloads (shifts/pushes/abducts) on every pitch."
ok...but i feel it's the core....and yeager is a camp....like epstein, HI and Slaught.....etc.
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 08:46 PM
the core shifts the weight????
What shifts the weight when you run??? Or closer to baseball swing what shifts the weight when you shuffle sideways???
It is the legs ----
the core?/ I guess that puts you in the pcr "camp"
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 09:04 PM
the core shifts the weight????
What shifts the weight when you run??? Or closer to baseball swing what shifts the weight when you shuffle sideways???
It is the legs ----
the core?/ I guess that puts you in the pcr "camp"
you read, I'll do...good luck to you....is it so bad to have a little bit from each? I bet i can hit the ball further than you and i'm 40+. Look at the swing that Manny has in the clip! I'll tell you by experience and swinging the bat...for me...it's the Core...with no question.
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 09:06 PM
I bet i can hit the ball further than you and i'm 40+.
Avoid the question...
I bet my Dad can beat up your Dad....
What shifts the weight when you run??? Or closer to baseball swing what shifts the weight when you shuffle sideways???
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 09:10 PM
Avoid the question...
I bet my Dad can beat up your Dad....
What shifts the weight when you run??? Or closer to baseball swing what shifts the weight when you shuffle sideways???
i say the core...now what? Yeager camp? Would you believe that I teach both? Whatever works for the player...I feel the core, others the push...i've been studying. don't get caught up in camps.
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 09:17 PM
i've been studying.
I'd keep that up if you think the core is responsible for weight shift.....while swinging and walking--
pretty funny by the way to think its anything other than the legs pushing against the ground to move the weight...
---the legs of course include (along with the obvious) the buttocks and abductors and adductors at the hip...
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 09:27 PM
Would you believe that I teach both? Whatever works for the player.
That's funny---so you teach some to abduct the back leg to shift weight and teach others to use the abdominals/core/middle out to shift.
How do you choose what to teach to which?
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 09:31 PM
What shifts the weight of a pitcher???????
Nah the OF doesn't push off with his back leg to shift weight and put energy into the throw...
he shifts his weight with his core.....right RK ha ha ha ha
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 09:39 PM
What shifts the weight of a pitcher???????
Nah the OF doesn't push off with his back leg to shift weight and put energy into the throw...
he shifts his weight with his core.....right RK ha ha ha ha
I don't feel they are one in the same....like Yeager feels...sorry....dust off the bat and make up your own mind...don't follow the light!
Berkman#17
06-03-2009, 09:49 PM
So, we should shift our weight forward after we start our swing?
In the swing when the back hip fires. Shift it earlier than that and you're done.
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 10:00 PM
I don't feel they are one in the same....like Yeager feels...sorry....dust off the bat and make up your own mind...don't follow the light!
go study more---or walk sideways down the hall and fel what is moving your weight---hint its not your abs/core....
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 10:09 PM
go study more---or walk sideways down the hall and fel what is moving your weight---hint its not your abs/core....
Trying to sell more videos Steve?
Mark H
06-03-2009, 10:18 PM
I don't see them adjusting there leg position or axis. It looks to me that they stay the same.
Which is what I thought your point was.
Mark H
06-03-2009, 10:21 PM
Trying to sell more videos Steve?
I don't know what this means but I do know you two are going to have to agree on definitions if you are going to have an intelligible conversation.
FanRuth714
06-03-2009, 10:24 PM
Trying to sell more videos Steve?
????? I don't really care who sells what or why you think my name is steve but you continue to ignore your common sense as to what moves the weight when someone steps sideways as in throwing ot batting...
rkbenn
06-03-2009, 10:27 PM
I don't know what this means but I do know you two are going to have to agree on definitions if you are going to have an intelligible conversation.
I don't feel ONE way is the right way.
Mark H
06-03-2009, 10:51 PM
I don't feel ONE way is the right way.
Your statement and mine appear to be related only tangentially. I wasn't discussing movement. I'm saying the two of you have different definitions/terminology. Thus your conversation/argument is meaningless and pointless till you agree on the definitions of the words and phrases you two are using. You may agree completely if you were standing in front of each other demonstrating movement. No way to know from this thread.
rkbenn
06-04-2009, 07:15 AM
Your statement and mine appear to be related only tangentially. I wasn't discussing movement. I'm saying the two of you have different definitions/terminology. Thus your conversation/argument is meaningless and pointless till you agree on the definitions of the words and phrases you two are using. You may agree completely if you were standing in front of each other demonstrating movement. No way to know from this thread.
He was saying he pushes off the back foot which dosen't work for me. I've tried pushing. My son pushes. I don't generate any less forward movement pushing off or coming from the core.
Oh I got my Yeager's mixed up.
He was saying he pushes off the back foot which dosen't work for me. I've tried pushing. My son pushes. I don't generate any less forward movement pushing off or coming from the core.
Oh I got my Yeager's mixed up.
rk,
Not to jump in the middle here but I'm going to agree with Fanruth here.
You may not feel the push because you are thinking middle but there has to be pressure applied to the ground from your back foot.
If you are not applying that pressure then you would just be pulling your hip around instead of driving it around.
I use both cues as well. Some get push some get drive the hips. Whatever works.
Mark H
06-04-2009, 09:59 AM
I agree talking about pushing off the back foot is a poor way to explain it. I prefer Dixon's point of view. Pushing encourages knee extension imo.
rkbenn
06-04-2009, 02:36 PM
rk,
Not to jump in the middle here but I'm going to agree with Fanruth here.
You may not feel the push because you are thinking middle but there has to be pressure applied to the ground from your back foot.
If you are not applying that pressure then you would just be pulling your hip around instead of driving it around.
I use both cues as well. Some get push some get drive the hips. Whatever works.
I use both. I just don't feel a push off my back foot. I feel my weight shift without pushing off my back foot. Not sure why Rthfan is so concerned about how I feel when I shift weight when I swing, especially when I teach push off the back foot for kids, including my son. I honestly don't feel a push off my back foot, but I get the same results as if I did.