View Full Version : Some help guys
Redsfan1
05-31-2009, 06:06 PM
my son really having trouble with sweeping/casting his arms. He is getting away with it due to 8 year old coach pitch making contact but now is starting to dink the ball around the infield. It is a really bad case so I plan on doing some fence drills and we belong to an indoor facility with access to instructors but I am hoping to get some help with some verbal cues or how I can explain in a better way to get the right elbow slotted and shorten the swing. Thanks
songtitle
05-31-2009, 06:41 PM
"throw your elbow to your hip"
Also, try the Babe Ruth towel drill. Towel in front armpit as you swing, dont drop the towel.
rbgrubbs
05-31-2009, 07:03 PM
Place a T next to a fence (ball 8-10 inches from fence) and using an old bat..have him stand a bat length plus 2" from the fence and Hit off T....
Thuis will force him to throw his hands at the ball and eliminate the casting
mudvnine
05-31-2009, 07:57 PM
Place a T next to a fence (ball 8-10 inches from fence) and using an old bat..have him stand a bat length plus 2" from the fence and Hit off T....
Thuis will force him to throw his hands at the ball and eliminate the casting
I would advice against using the above advice . . . (http://imageevent.com/siggy/hitting/analysis;jsessionid=6wyymnp8a1.tiger_s?p=18&n=1&m=20&c=4&l=0&w=4&s=0&z=9) everyone I've seen attempt this drill, do it incorrectly. For a hitter his age the towel drill is much better, with less possibility of developing another bad habit.
deaconspoint
05-31-2009, 08:42 PM
I'll share one that has worked for me. I feel bad that I don't know who to give credit for this one to. I got this recently when someone noticed a loop in my sons swing. He's 10. I recently tried this on another young boy on our all-star team and it seems to work and be very easy for a kid to "get". First practice swing and a comment was made that the swing just looked better.
Have your son step up to bat and with his top hand grab a little piece of his shirt collar or top of sleeve. He then loads back like he normally would but holds onto his shirt until his hand have started with his shoulders then let's go into the swing.
This simple little thing has improved my own sons understanding of where the power comes from and what it means to keep the hands inside the ball. Now in practice if I see him casting or dipping his hands he gets a "getcha a piece". He pinches a piece of the sleeve and things seem to get better from there. Normally he'll take a couple swings holding on and then the hands are back in check for a while. He's even done it in games on several occasions.
The other thing I might advise is taking some time to really explain the flight of the ball compared to the plane of the swing to your son. With mine I took it all the way to drawing pictures and explaining how little chance you have of hitting a target that is coming relatively straight in if your are swinging on an upward(looping/sweeping) plane. Swinging more on plane with the ball will result in more and better contact. Your timing has to be almost perfect to hit a moving ball when you are cutting across it's path. Much less so if you're bat is in line with the ball to begin with and stays there longer.
These are just my thoughts and opinions. Take em for what they're worth and good luck. I feel badly that I don't know who to credit with the grab the jersey thing. I received that little jewel either here or on another board. I read it and tried it. It immediately helped my son and I.
Have fun,
Tim
mudvnine
05-31-2009, 08:54 PM
Have your son step up to bat and with his top hand grab a little piece of his shirt collar or top of sleeve. He then loads back like he normally would but holds onto his shirt until his hand have started with his shoulders then let's go into the swing. Very nice, I hadn't heard of that one before and giving it a "dry try" in the living room, I can see how that would help youngsters understand the hand path. :thumbsup::thumbsup:
The other thing I might advise is taking some time to really explain the flight of the ball compared to the plane of the swing to your son. With mine I took it all the way to drawing pictures and explaining how little chance you have of hitting a target that is coming relatively straight in if your are swinging on an upward(looping/sweeping) plane. Swinging more on plane with the ball will result in more and better contact. Your timing has to be almost perfect to hit a moving ball when you are cutting across it's path. Much less so if you're bat is in line with the ball to begin with and stays there longer.
These are just my thoughts and opinions. Take em for what they're worth and good luck. I feel badly that I don't know who to credit with the grab the jersey thing. I received that little jewel either here or on another board. I read it and tried it. It immediately helped my son and I.
Have fun,
Tim
More good advice, nice work . . .
rbgrubbs
05-31-2009, 09:46 PM
I would advice against using the above advice . . .
To each his own.....But it worked great for my son......
mudvnine
05-31-2009, 09:52 PM
I would advice against using the above advice . . .
To each his own.....But it worked great for my son......
Did you click to the link and if you did, then what did you do to prevent the front elbow disconnection?
rbgrubbs
05-31-2009, 09:56 PM
In the clip....he is too close to the fence....
You need to set up so that you are a little farther from the fence. The idea is to prevent the extreme casting....that and close supervision
gameth
05-31-2009, 10:00 PM
Place a T next to a fence (ball 8-10 inches from fence) and using an old bat..have him stand a bat length plus 2" from the fence and Hit off T....
Thuis will force him to throw his hands at the ball and eliminate the casting
Isn't this a bit too far from the fence to make any difference? We are talking about what? 30" from the fence? I have my kids about 15" from the fence swinging without hitting fence. Really don't need a tee with a ball.
baseballislife97
06-02-2009, 08:38 AM
"throw your elbow to your hip"
Also, try the Babe Ruth towel drill. Towel in front armpit as you swing, dont drop the towel.
Put him up against the fence and don't do the towel drill. Try it with the back elbow though.
songtitle
06-02-2009, 08:43 AM
Put him up against the fence and don't do the towel drill. Try it with the back elbow though.
I have never seen a picture or video of an MLB player that did not have their back elbow up and back at toe touch. Maybe there are some - just never seen it.
songtitle
06-02-2009, 08:49 AM
The fence drill is used for linear training. They take the knob to the ball, with the bat head back until the arms are fully extended.
If you are going to use the fence drill for rotational, you can't be too close, and you can't be too far. To measure, you need to take your elbow to your hip and hold the bat out until you touch the fence. Maybe add a couple inches. So, depending on age, you would be 3 to 4 feet away from the fence.
The fence drill is used for linear training. They take the knob to the ball, with the bat head back until the arms are fully extended.
If you are going to use the fence drill for rotational, you can't be too close, and you can't be too far. To measure, you need to take your elbow to your hip and hold the bat out until you touch the fence. Maybe add a couple inches. So, depending on age, you would be 3 to 4 feet away from the fence.
Exactly.
The fence drill is a great learning tool for these young kids to get them to understand that they need to keep their "hands tight." The immediate feedback of the bat hitting the net or fence gives them all they need. Heck, I've even seen my 8 year-old son trying to teach the drill to his friends. It might not have made him a perfect hitter...but, it's taught him a lesson that he'll need time to perfect.
The towel drill could serve the same purpose. It could give the kid a visual for him to go by when he does something wrong. If he's not doing it perfect...fine...but, he'll get the gist of it. The best thing would be if the kid can understand the principles these drills teach and then apply these principles in practice without the need for the drill. Do that enough and the game-swing will mimick what's done in the cage/practice/tee.
StraightGrain11
06-02-2009, 03:07 PM
"throw your elbow to your hip"
Also, try the Babe Ruth towel drill. Towel in front armpit as you swing, dont drop the towel.
Front armpit? Why the front? I've seen something like this done before - but it has always been done with the towel under the top-hand armpit.
When you swing, your front elbow needs to elevate slightly to get the bat on the correct plane.
http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43329&stc=1&d=1211847573 http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=43328&stc=1&d=1211847473 http://www.baseball-fever.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=31178&stc=1&d=1194152620
If you have a towel under your front armpit, you can't attain this position - you're holding your elbow down to prevent the towel from coming out.
In the photo of Tulowitzki (from the back), you can almost see where he would be holding a towel under his right armpit.
songtitle
06-02-2009, 08:52 PM
Armpit, not elbow. Try it with a towel. It works. You arguing with the Babe? :)
Utley needed the towel drill in that photo above. Looks like he was fooled by a pitch.
The back elbow is always up at toe touch. Do not use the towel in your back armpit.
dolphindan1
06-02-2009, 11:11 PM
I still dont understand this drill....can someone explain it more...
mudvnine
06-03-2009, 12:11 AM
I still dont understand this drill....can someone explain it more...
Dolphin . . . Towel under the front arm? Towel under the rear arm? How far from the fence do we stand? Will the front elbow disconnect or not with the fence drill? . . .
All these questions, concerns, and possibly even problems, when deaconspoint's grab the shirt drill (http://www.baseball-fever.com/showpost.php?p=1532179&postcount=5) accomplishes what your looking for without all of the hassles. Have your son step up to bat and with his top hand grab a little piece of his shirt collar or top of sleeve. He then loads back like he normally would but holds onto his shirt until his hand have started with his shoulders then let's go into the swing.
This simple little thing has improved my own sons understanding of where the power comes from and what it means to keep the hands inside the ball.
Ursa Major
06-03-2009, 12:28 AM
Armpit, not elbow. Try it with a towel. It works. You arguing with the Babe? :)
Utley needed the towel drill in that photo above. Looks like he was fooled by a pitch.
The back elbow is always up at toe touch. Do not use the towel in your back armpit.Even in the armpit, the towel tends to slip out.
Try using a stuffed animal -- something a hair larger than your average teddy bear. That way you can use the usual swing with a raised front elbow at the end of the swing. The animal will fall out at some point -- the trick is to make it fall out as late in the swing as possible.
A couple of other suggestions in a different vein that may help:
1. I'm a big believer in exaggeration drills. If a player develops flaw "X", do a drill where he's exaggerating doing anti-"X". So, if he's casting, have him do bottom-arm only dry swings where the bottom arm wrist is literally resting on his neck and the bat is wrapped around his neck, then have him turn into the ball. Let him get a feel for the bat head unwrapping around his neck a few times, then try hitting a wiffle ball off a high tee. Then slowly work in the top hand, and see if it helps.
2. Cues may often work. Two that may be appropriate in this instance:
a. "Hit the inside seam of the ball". To do so, many kids will automatically bring their hands in starting about half way through the swing.
b. "Pinch the front bicep" - tell 'em to pinch the front bicep against their front nipple just after they start their swing. In doing so, the natural reaction is to keep that front elbow bent.
IMHO, casting by an 8 year old is not the worst thing in the world if he's more or less tilted, has a decent lower body action and can keep his wrists cocked and back. It's the kids who immediately allow their hands to unhinge and swing the bat like a hammer thrower that make me cringe.
AgentX
06-03-2009, 06:29 AM
The fence drill is a great learning tool for these young kids to get them to understand that they need to keep their "hands tight." The immediate feedback of the bat hitting the net or fence gives them all they need. Heck, I've even seen my 8 year-old son trying to teach the drill to his friends. It might not have made him a perfect hitter...but, it's taught him a lesson that he'll need time to perfect.
The towel drill could serve the same purpose. It could give the kid a visual for him to go by when he does something wrong. If he's not doing it perfect...fine...but, he'll get the gist of it. The best thing would be if the kid can understand the principles these drills teach and then apply these principles in practice without the need for the drill. Do that enough and the game-swing will mimick what's done in the cage/practice/tee.
I absolutely agree.
I don't see the fence as a cure-all, but at least 80% of the 9-10yos I've seen tend to cast. I put them on the fence to not only get them to tighten their swings, but also to start rotating their hips. I show them how by setting up a bat length from the fence (measured at the belly button), and then swinging without hitting the fence. They are usually amazed at first, but they eventually "get it."
The same with the towel drill. The important thing for the young kids is to learn SOMETHING about swing mechanics. Most have never been taught anything at all. They'll have plenty of time to refine once they get the basics down.
baseballislife97
06-03-2009, 06:46 AM
Armpit, not elbow. Try it with a towel. It works. You arguing with the Babe? :)
Utley needed the towel drill in that photo above. Looks like he was fooled by a pitch.
The back elbow is always up at toe touch. Do not use the towel in your back armpit.
IF YOU KEEP THE FRONT ELBOW DOWN THEN YOU WILL HAVE TROUBLE MATCHING THE PLANE OF THE SWING TO THE PLANE OF THE PITCH!
That is what this drill promotes. Does anybody else like this drill?
IMHO, casting by an 8 year old is not the worst thing in the world if he's more or less tilted, has a decent lower body action and can keep his wrists cocked and back. It's the kids who immediately allow their hands to unhinge and swing the bat like a hammer thrower that make me cringe.
The worst thing is...in T-Ball in Coach Pitch, a kid who is doing some serious casting or looping can still hit the ball very hard and far so coach/father thinks the kid is doing what he's supposed to be doing. I had a heated discussion with a father of a kid on another team who I think is talented...but, casts his hands like a maniac. His dad argued with me that he needed to get his hands our far to create "momentum." I pulled out a book I had in my car to show him a couple of pictures and he still didn't want to hear it.
wogdoggy
06-03-2009, 09:05 AM
Even in the armpit, the towel tends to slip out.
Try using a stuffed animal -- something a hair larger than your average teddy bear. That way you can use the usual swing with a raised front elbow at the end of the swing. The animal will fall out at some point -- the trick is to make it fall out as late in the swing as possible.
A couple of other suggestions in a different vein that may help:
1. I'm a big believer in exaggeration drills. If a player develops flaw "X", do a drill where he's exaggerating doing anti-"X". So, if he's casting, have him do bottom-arm only dry swings where the bottom arm wrist is literally resting on his neck and the bat is wrapped around his neck, then have him turn into the ball. Let him get a feel for the bat head unwrapping around his neck a few times, then try hitting a wiffle ball off a high tee. Then slowly work in the top hand, and see if it helps.
2. Cues may often work. Two that may be appropriate in this instance:
a. "Hit the inside seam of the ball". To do so, many kids will automatically bring their hands in starting about half way through the swing.
b. "Pinch the front bicep" - tell 'em to pinch the front bicep against their front nipple just after they start their swing. In doing so, the natural reaction is to keep that front elbow bent.
IMHO, casting by an 8 year old is not the worst thing in the world if he's more or less tilted, has a decent lower body action and can keep his wrists cocked and back. It's the kids who immediately allow their hands to unhinge and swing the bat like a hammer thrower that make me cringe.
I like suggestions a and b ...:thumbsup:
Prouddadof5
06-03-2009, 11:23 AM
Check this video out. I thought it was really good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqbfaUehJc&feature=channel_page
G.G.
songtitle
06-03-2009, 12:11 PM
Check this video out. I thought it was really good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqbfaUehJc&feature=channel_page
I like that one.
Likes:
- ba-boom cue (very nice)
- string to show plane of ball from pitcher's hand (excellent)
Dislikes:
- teaching wrist roll (doesn't really matter if it's after contact - but could cause confusion)
- he seems to be teaching a power-v move (this is good if you like power-v)
- when I teach it, the rear hip cue doesn't work as well as the front hip cue (even though both hips obviously move together)
- I think the "knob to the ball" cue will cause more trouble (this is a classic linear cue)
Check this video out. I thought it was really good.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UqbfaUehJc&feature=channel_page
.
Hello Bat Drag...nice to meet you.
Sammy
08-19-2009, 09:04 AM
Following advice from this video would create more problems than fixes. Anyone who has studied MLB hitters would see that they DO NOT do the majority of what is shown here. No attention is paid to coiling (loading), cocking the wrists, etc. Major Leaguers DO NOT use a power-v set up, nor do they "throw hands or knob to the ball". Look at the top hand/rear elbow set-up of nearly every MLB hitter. It surely isn't down! I cringe when I see a 13 - 14 yr. old kid swing like is shown in that video! Bat drag galore, combined with a "hitch" that ruins their efficiency - which will prevent them from becoming even decent high school hitters.
BTW, I like the "grabbing the shirt" drill too. It focuses on keeping the hands/arms connected to the shoulder rotation. Find someone who uses RVP (or any video system) and watch how the guys in the Bigs do it. I guarantee you it's NOT what is shown here!